Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[TheBeastHimself]

Lots of you folks know your gaming history, and there's something I wanted to learn more about.

Why did Square and Enix merge? I can't find a clear-written answer anywhere online.

I know Square was having some financial mishaps in the early 2000s but then stabilized. And Enix as far as I can tell was doing fine themselves.

What was the motivation for both companies to merge?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Lots of you folks know your gaming history, and there's something I wanted to learn more about.

Why did Square and Enix merge? I can't find a clear-written answer anywhere online.

I know Square was having some financial mishaps in the early 2000s but then stabilized. And Enix as far as I can tell was doing fine themselves.

What was the motivation for both companies to merge?

Enix bought Square, they decided to merger... that’s pretty much the most important parts

 

[SKX31]

Lots of you folks know your gaming history, and there's something I wanted to learn more about.

Why did Square and Enix merge? I can't find a clear-written answer anywhere online.

I know Square was having some financial mishaps in the early 2000s but then stabilized. And Enix as far as I can tell was doing fine themselves.

What was the motivation for both companies to merge?

Quickly checked the sources Wiki linked on this (with the two officially merging April 2003):

The purpose of the merger, according to statements released by the companies, is to fight off the threat of heightened development costs and competition from foreign developers and to increase development power and earnings. Taken together, the two companies will certainly form the dominant force in Japanese role playing market, with Enix having sold 2.75 million games in Japan last year [2001] and Square 4.37 million, mostly through RPGs. The Enix connection brings in ties with well known Japanese RPG development houses such as tri-Ace and Chun Soft, with the Square connection bringing with it the foreign presence Enix has always lacked.

At a press conference today [November 25th 2002], the new management staff shared some thoughts on the merger. "This is an offensive merger," commented Wada. "The merger decision was made in order to further please game players, and in order to survive. Enix is an excellent company. Square has also fully recovered, meaning this merger is occurring at a time when both companies are at their height."

Managed to find Square-Enix's 2004 Annual report (their first since the merger) and it goes into further detail why - it's available through WebArchive here.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Lots of you folks know your gaming history, and there's something I wanted to learn more about.

Why did Square and Enix merge? I can't find a clear-written answer anywhere online.

I know Square was having some financial mishaps in the early 2000s but then stabilized. And Enix as far as I can tell was doing fine themselves.

What was the motivation for both companies to merge?

To put it simply, decrease development costs and be harder to compete against.

But the funny part is that Enix didn't want to do it while Square was losing money, so it didn't happen until Sony bought 20% stake in Squaresoft as well as the success of FFX and the first Kingdom Hearts helping to stabilize Square financially.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This video was posted in this thread a couple weeks ago

Considering how little trademarks have meant about anything, and that it's the only "evidence" he has, I highly doubt the validity of this claim.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Lots of you folks know your gaming history, and there's something I wanted to learn more about.

Why did Square and Enix merge? I can't find a clear-written answer anywhere online.

I know Square was having some financial mishaps in the early 2000s but then stabilized. And Enix as far as I can tell was doing fine themselves.

What was the motivation for both companies to merge?

They had a baby and had to marry

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The idea that Banjo let alone Terry has more legacy than Ryu Hayabusa is laughable and this is coming from a guy who likes Banjo more as a character.

In what world does Ninja Gaiden has more legacy than freaking SNK?

 

[RileyXY1]

In what world does Ninja Gaiden has more legacy than freaking SNK?

Especially considering that KOF was the inspiration for Smash itself.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Especially considering that KOF was the inspiration for Smash itself.

That's not an indication for legacy. One can be inspired by niche stuff as well.

 

[SKX31]

That's not an indication for legacy. One can be inspired by niche stuff as well.

Terry should've been the first third party reveal back in Brawl.

Instant top tier in that game since he'd be the only guy aside from Meta Knight with combos. Oh and also, "R U OK?" would ignore tripping.

Edit: Swing and a miss.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Greninja was added because it was the hot new starter.

How could he have been the "hot new starter" when he was picked before he even had his name decided?

Pretty sure Sakurai outright confirmed it's the same situation as Incineroar; he looked at concept art and saw the most potential in Greninja.

It's a pure coincidence that he happened to have been the most popular starter when Gen 6 released.

Especially considering that KOF was the inspiration for Smash itself.

Puppy is right. Obscure stuff could be used as inspiration.

But SNK just has so much.

Inventing the concept of supers as we know them with Fatal Fury, creating the very first video game song with lyrics with the Psycho Soldier theme, inventing the very concept of crossover fighters with KOF, the rivalry it had with Capcom when it comes to fighting games during the 90s (it's how SNK's Ryo and Capcom's Dan exist), being so infamous for making hard boss fights that it's got a trope named after the company and, y'know, the fact that it had its own consoles with the Neo Geo systems. And I'm pretty sure I forgot some.

And Terry in Smash doesn't just represent Fatal Fury, but SNK as a whole. So to say Hayabusa has more legacy is honestly ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member]

I've mainly been watching this thread discuss everything around Hayabusa, and I do think people overestimate him by saying Ryu Hayabusa is the face of Koei-Tecmo. He's more like Mega-Man in that he's iconic and Ninja Gaiden gets references and Hayabusa makes appearances in multiple games both old and recent but isn't the big staple franchise the company prioritizes on like Dynasty Warriors. Speaking of which, I'd wager Zhao Yun is more of the face of Koei-Tecmo because he's to Koei-Tecmo what Street Fighter Ryu is to Capcom. The dude represents the brand of his series as he's front and center in most Dynasty Warriors covers and also Warriors All-Stars, the game some people like to mention when they talk about Hayabusa.

Not that this post is meant to discredit Hayabusa's chances since Mega Man was added to Smash before Street Fighter, but being iconic doesn't always mean you're the top face of the brand. 1 of? Sure, but not the face of Koei-Tecmo.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him. Don't get me wrong, he has a shot getting in but not as likely as folks are making it out to be.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him.

Monster Hunter.

It missed both base game and the first Pass despite Rathalos being a boss. Getting two games announced won't suddenly make them a frontrunner for Pass 2.

I still think they have a chance, but people give the Hunter way more credit than they really have because again, new games.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him. Don't get me wrong, he has a shot getting in but not as likely as folks are making it out to be.

No bias here but Geno/Lloyd No people, just because their mii costume isnt in the game yet doesn't mean hes coming

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I would wager Monster Hunter more likely to get in and arguably Phoenix Wright who I feel is overlooked.

I think Phoenix Wright at this point can be considered an actual, legit dark horse, considering how much everyone keeps latching onto Dante as the most likely choice for a third Capcom character, while dismissing Phoenix Wright despite having his own advantages the other characters don't have.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him. Don't get me wrong, he has a shot getting in but not as likely as folks are making it out to be.

As much as I'd love the dude, Crash

Despite his following over there, just not sure he'd be considered a huge priority in Nintendo of Japan's eyes rn.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him. Don't get me wrong, he has a shot getting in but not as likely as folks are making it out to be.

Crash. It might just be me not being all that into his games, but I think he's miles away from "A LOCK!!!!111!!!1!1!". The idea that he's a lock is based on an assumption that Nintendo/Sakurai adds characters because their games got Switch ports and that they're interested in revenge fantasies against anime swordsmen, and I don't think he'd be on the same level of uniqueness as the last two characters.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Overdone smash fan jokes?

As much as I'd love the dude, Crash

Despite his following over there, just not sure he'd be a huge priority in Nintendo of Japan's eyes rn.

Crash. It might just be me not being all that into his games, but I think he's miles away from "A LOCK!!!!111!!!1!1!". The idea that he's a lock is based on an assumption that Nintendo/Sakurai adds characters because their games got Switch ports and that they're interested in revenge fantasies against anime swordsmen, and I don't think he'd be on the same level of uniqueness as the last two characters.

Unfortunately have to agree apparently.

For one thing, his demand was recently given the N. Sane Trilogy announcement in 2017, it also probably picked up due to Banjo being announced not to mention competition with Overwatch and Diablo which Activision might want Nintendo to add instead.

I would honestly even say Ryu Hayabusa is a more likely character to get in over him.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

An alternate answer I have for the "who do you think is overrated" question would be literally any character who gets an announcement.

The second a notable game gets announced in a Direct, people have the tendency to just assume that game's main character is a lock for Smash.

Monster Hunter, Dante, Impa, Crash Bandicoot, Sora, Gen 8 Pokemons and many others have fallen victim of this.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How could he have been the "hot new starter" when he was picked before he even had his name decided?

Pretty sure Sakurai outright confirmed it's the same situation as Incineroar; he looked at concept art and saw the most potential in Greninja.

It's a pure coincidence that he happened to have been the most popular starter when Gen 6 released.

"hot new starter" is my term for the starters they're pushing most, making them the only possible Pokémon candidate for Super Smash Bros.

Gen 6 had Greninja.
Gen 7 had Incineroar.
Gen 8's is Cinderace as far as I know.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

As much as I'd love the dude, Crash

Despite his following over there, just not sure he'd be considered a huge priority in Nintendo of Japan's eyes rn.

Second this.

People would bring up the one document which may or may not be legitimate, but even if it was accurate, we gotta consider that "Crash joining Smash" is more of a stretch goal for Activision and less of a "yeah this is happening". At the very least it would imply that Activision would try to get in talks with Nintendo but like you said, not sure if Nintendo might want to prioritize him. Would like to be wrong though!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

"hot new starter" is my term for the starters they're pushing most, making them the only possible Pokémon candidate for Super Smash Bros.

Gen 6 had Greninja.
Gen 7 had Incineroar.
Gen 8's is Cinderace as far as I know.

Hindsight can really be a ***** because I remember people really pushing for Decidueye, even using the anime as "proof" since Ash caught a Rowlett long before getting a Litten.

Heck, Decidueye got in Pokken DX, so it's got some push from Game Freak themselves.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him. Don't get me wrong, he has a shot getting in but not as likely as folks are making it out to be.

Bandana Waddle Dee and Dixie Kong. Don't get me wrong, I'd love both of these characters, but they just aren't necessary inclusions to me. And by necessary, I mean prioritized.

Kirby and Donkey Kong both have their main cast already in Smash. They'd just be extra bonuses to already, in my opinion, well-represented franchises (character wise).

 

[SKX31]

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him.

Overrated.... eeehhhh...

It's difficult to say. As a fan of Dante's there's a bit too much focus on him and Monster Hunter (although the Capcom side of things is incredibly unclear - it's why I'm not sure if I should place Phoenix as a frontrunner). First party I'd say Rex and honestly Pokemon because Pokemon has a lot of other ways to promote itself. Geno also fits in the "too much focus" category. Crash is also up there since he's kind of in the same boat as Rex and Monster Hunter - sure, there's been a lot of talk, but not actual movement.

An alternate answer I have for the "who do you think is overrated" question would be literally any character who gets an announcement.

The second a notable game gets announced in a Direct, people have the tendency to just assume that game's main character is a lock for Smash.

Monster Hunter, Dante, Impa, Crash Bandicoot, Sora, Gen 8 Pokemons and many others have fallen victim of this.

Absolutely, and it's often because of precedence, wishful thinking and what have you. Myriads of not-always-logical reasons.

It's worth remembering that a game / port and a Smash appearance are two different processes entirely. Just because LoL's probably getting to the Switch doesn't mean that one of its characters will get into Smash because - again - those are two different negotiations entirely.

 

[7NATOR]

As much as I'd love the dude, Crash

Despite his following over there, just not sure he'd be considered a huge priority in Nintendo of Japan's eyes rn.

Good thing there's NOA and NOE that could also have eyes on Crash

I actually agree with Crash being overrated

I think the most Overrated Character is Rex though, and he's still likely addition, but I think people blow it out of proportions that Rex would have been in if There was more time. I get what Sakurai said that ARMS and Xenoblade 2 couldn't be considered for Base roste, but that doesn't mean they would have past consideration even if there was more time for base roster. We know ARMS Pass for FP2, but that doesn't mean Rex will

Geno is overrated in the sense that some people in the Geno boards are calling him a lock, but i still find him a Likely outcome

Gen 8 pokemon is also not a Inevitable outcome

Waluigi is Overrated when it comes to AT Promotions, in that people find he'd be the only Realistic option. I get why, But I still think other AT Like Isaac, Shadow, and Shovel Knight should be considered

 

[GoodGrief741]

Are there any other big NES-era franchises like Ninja Gaiden that are still around today?

I'm pretty sure Contra is still around in some form. Not sure what else, I'm very uninformed with this kind of stuff.

Contra, Bomberman, Battletoads, Double Dragon, River City, Blaster Master, Famicom Detective, Prince of Persia, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Tetris, Ys, Pitfall, Strider, Space Invaders, Nobunaga's Ambition, Lode Runner, Dragon Slayer/Legend of Heroes/Xanadu, and Dig Dug are all big series from that time period that are still getting games today. Though they aren't all equally big or equally relevant, so YMMV.

(Do Rampage and Dragon's Lair count? They're super dead game-wise but they have movies...)

 

[Knight Dude]

Are there any other big NES-era franchises like Ninja Gaiden that are still around today?

I'm pretty sure Contra is still around in some form. Not sure what else, I'm very uninformed with this kind of stuff.

Contra, Bubble Bobble/Bust-A-Move, Tetris, Double Dragon all get new games every so often still. You can kinda say Ghost N' Goblin's, but that's strictly digital re-releases and cameos. Also the River City games too. They got a new game recently.

only tangentially related but this reminds me of when i somehow called a ninjara mii costume not only before the arms character reveal, not only before byleth's reveal, but even before terry was released back in november

despite how it was only like a single mii costume (not even a particularly notable one at that) and meant absolutely ****ing nothing in the long run, if i have to be completely honest i'm still a bit proud of it because of just how much of a shot in the dark it was

King **** right there.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hindsight can really be a ***** because I remember people really pushing for Decidueye, even using the anime as "proof" since Ash caught a Rowlett long before getting a Litten.

From what I've seen, Raboot's relationship with Goh seems to be what Pikachu's relationship is to Ash, that's why I think Cinderace is going to be this gen's hot new starter. It could be Intelleon, I just think it's less likely.

I can say for 100% certain that it's not Rillaboom though. Shame because it's the only one with an actually good design.

Bandana Waddle Dee and Dixie Kong. Don't get me wrong, I'd love both of these characters, but they just aren't necessary inclusions to me. And by necessary, I mean prioritized.

Kirby and Donkey Kong both have their main cast already in Smash. They'd just be extra bonuses to already, in my opinion, well-represented franchises (character wise).

Last I knew nobody thought they even had a shot.

 

[RileyXY1]

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him. Don't get me wrong, he has a shot getting in but not as likely as folks are making it out to be.

Definitely Geno.

 

[Spongeboob]

That's not an indication for legacy. One can be inspired by niche stuff as well.

While I agree with your statement, I disagree with your implications that SNK and KOF are niche.

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him. Don't get me wrong, he has a shot getting in but not as likely as folks are making it out to be.

I think Sol Badguy was doomed to this fate in regards to roster speculation.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

From what I've seen, Raboot's relationship with Goh seems to be what Pikachu's relationship is to Ash, that's why I think Cinderace is going to be this gen's hot new starter. It could be Intelleon, I just think it's less likely.

I can say for 100% certain that it's not Rillaboom though. Shame because it's the only one with an actually good design.

But what people don't get is that Sakurai doesn't go for the "hot starter", he goes for whatever gives him the most creative ideas.

It's why we got Incineroar instead of any form of Rowlet, despite the latter's evolution line being by far the most pushed for Gen 7.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I feel Dante and Master Cheif are vastly overrated to be honest.

For Master Cheif I have legitimate reasons, but Dante is mostly just a gut feeling.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Dante is mostly just a guy feeling.

And what does your gal feeling say of him?

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Last I knew nobody thought they even had a shot.

Ehhhh for the most part, but they still have pretty dedicated fanbases who will argue about why they have a good chance.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

While I agree with your statement, I disagree with your implications that SNK and KOF are niche.

I wasn't implying that. I was merely stating that simply inspiring Smash does not a huge legacy make.

 

[7NATOR]

Cheif Kinda died in speculation alot thanks to Steve. He's still clinging though

 

[SharkLord]

Bandana Waddle Dee and Dixie Kong. Don't get me wrong, I'd love both of these characters, but they just aren't necessary inclusions to me. And by necessary, I mean prioritized.

Kirby and Donkey Kong both have their main cast already in Smash. They'd just be extra bonuses to already, in my opinion, well-represented franchises (character wise).

I thought we all kinda agreed on this. The DLC so far just doesn't seem to prioritize secondary characters (In the definition of Anyone who isn't the MAIN main character; Some characters are main characters, but aren't the focus of the game. Those characters aren't counted in this context).

 

[cashregister9]

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him. Don't get me wrong, he has a shot getting in but not as likely as folks are making it out to be.

Monster Hunter - It missed base game and Pass 1, If Nintendo REALLY wanted it they would have put them in, Monster Hunter didn't suddenly become Popular with Monster Hunter World, I don't think Rise changes much because by the time Pass 2 was decided Iceborne Just came out.

Geno - Anything I can say about Geno has already been said dozens of times

Bandanna Dee - I think BWD is a mainstay Kirby character but I can't get my mind off of the whole "new worlds" angle for the pass, I also cannot see what they could do for Spirits, and similar to what others have said, I don't see them as a large priority for anyone on the dev team.

Dixie Kong - Similar to BWD but also Donkey Kong already got a new rep in Ultimate.

Impa - If we were getting a Zelda rep we would not have received a Zelda Mii costume for purchasing the pass

 

[CureParfait]

Something new to talk about.

What characters do you guys are overrated in terms of chances.

Dante certainly comes to mind. All started because of those tweets a few years back regarding him. Don't get me wrong, he has a shot getting in but not as likely as folks are making it out to be.

For the most overrated in terms of chances I think Geno and Monster Hunter.