Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Brother AJ]

I would rather Kasumi from DOA. and a DW rep then Ryu. He is a bland ninja from a try-hard series that did nothing but bring out some of the worst in gamers and the "dark souls get gud" culture that dominated and destroyed a good portion of gaming for a few years. I hate that character. absolutely.

That's a bit absolutist. He certainly had a positive influence on action games as well as cinematics in gaming. You're certainly entitled to your opinion though! I'm just talking about who is more likely.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Bub/Bob is one of the series I attribute to the wave of mobile game copy cats. they love Puzzle bobble mechanics in those things. those little guys were huge.

Citation needed. But even if you gave one, it doesn't really change the fact that these games are all over the place:

• Bionic Commando's legacy is mostly a cautionary tale for reboots at this point.
• Contra is pretty widely considered to be an NES icon.
• Adventures of Lolo is a series that pretty much got absorbed by the Kirby series to the point where most people don't even know it exists.
• Double Dragon is considered to be incredibly important to the beat 'em up genre at the very least.
• Rygar is...uh...I have no idea. This was the first time I've seen the name.

You may not agree that Ninja Gaiden's legacy would make Ryu more likely than other characters, but it doesn't follow that all these series would be just as likely were that to be the case since they don't all have that legacy. Besides, Ninja Gaiden's legacy isn't the only thing that makes Ryu likely.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hayabusa

Or they can use footage and the logos from the NES games so they can go "Move along ESRB, no modern Ninja Gaiden references to see here! Just ignore that costume! And those moves taken from them! Yep, this is all classic E-rated Ninja Gaiden for the NES!"

 

[Goombaic]

I hate that character. absolutely.

That's all you had to say, rather than dragging these dumb arguments for several pages, just leave it off at that.

 

[7NATOR]

Well While you guys talk about Ryu, I'm gonna post what I think are the 15 most likeliest characters for Smash DLC (which does include Ryu, but he's not only character obviously


Not in Order, and Trying to be brief with Explanations (because I Know people don’t want to read Whole Paragraphs for 15 characters). Honorable Mentions to characters from Same franchise as character on List

Spoiler: The Top 15

Geno

-Iconic in the Smash-Want Scene, Mii Costume Missing, All the “Circumstantial Evidence”. Honorable mention to Waluigi

Monster Hunter

-World Came out after Base roster and FP1 Selection, put Monster Hunter on the Map in the West. Rise and that other MH Game nintendo Exclusives. No Hunter Amibo yet. Mii Cosutme Missing

Ryu

-Koei good Relation with Nintendo, Vergeben Statement, Has Legacy, All previous rumors for him could still be in Play

Scorpion

-ICONIC, Ed Boon down for Idea, High Selling game on Nintendo even, Interview about Smash that’s wording said really nothing about if they in or not, so Cards still in Play, Gamefaqs rumor

Dante

-The DMC Ports, DMC5 made Series majorly relevant again, some rumors and circumstantial evidence of him being in (V’s VA Interview thing, Capcom perhaps shyly hinting at Smash appearance with DMC1 port), No Spirit Board (yet)

Estelle

-Falcom porting heavily on Switch thanks to NIS, Were rumors of Falcom character, Interview with producer guy not mentioning Estelle, despite saying Her and her game were favorites, Could be because NDA.

Wraith

-Doug Bowser worked at EA, EA Heavily porting games on Switch now, FPS Character, Has Portal Gimmick, which you can’t really get with too many Characters, Very Popular Recent Game, Rumors

Ahri

-League is Huge Game, Tencent and Nintendo working heavily close, Riot Games showed Smash Support with Brawl Mod, Ahri is one of more iconic characters from game, Rumor that predicted Trials of Mana Spirit


Reimu

-Huge in Asian Countries (still has niche following in West), Part of Genre that motivated Sakurai into Game Development, Legendary Music and Characters, one of Cheapest (and probably easiest) 3rd party to license and work with, Rumors

Isaac

-Has AT Model to re-use, Iconic in the Smash Want Scene, Rumors of New Golden Sun Game (Backed with Evidence due to Trademarks)

KOS-mos

-Monlith’s Soft Favorite Character, Video Takedown (though also likely was Troll attack to make people think she be at TGA 2019), Mech Girl. Honorable Mention to Elma, and I guess Rex, even though I don’t personally think he in (even if I think he’s also Likely)

Shadow

-Has AT Model to Re-use, Another Sonic Character wanted for long time, Shadow 2nd most popular character in the fandom, Chaos Control Abilities (so No Echo), Iconic (but not always for the Right reasons), May be biased towards him. Honorable Mention to Eggman

Lloyd

-People Want to see Tales of Representation, Lloyd most requested for Smash, TWO Swords, Namco still only has one character, 25th Anniversary, Mii Costume Missing

Sephiroth

-Iconic Villain, Seen requests, especially in Japan. Could give FF7 more content, which would be much appreciated, was on Seven Squares leak

Don-Chan

-Popular In Japan, Rhythm Based Moveset (which if Smash 4 and Rhythm heaven showed, it at least was in the Cards), Namco Character, Taiko getting new game on Switch

 

[Dinoman96]

So I've kinda noticed a pattern: we got an all new spirit event after Byleth's and Min Min's tourney events.

Some Training, Professor? - February 7th
Ready? Wallop! - February 14th

Embrace Victory! - July 6th
Second Anniversary of OCTOPATH TRAVELER - July 10th

As last week was Steve's tourney, perhaps we're due for a culling tonight? lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know they'll never add Kasumi because "Smash is for good boys and girls".

I looked her up and this was the first design I found (the first image wouldn't upload to SmashBoards):

It doesn't seem to be her original look, so I'm not gonna be like "boi wa'chu mean?", but since it does seem to be her newest design, I think they could pretty easily just use this if it came down to it.

Not entirely certain they'd pick Dead or Alive, but I don't think it's impossible.


EDIT: I just got my first Christmas ad...

 

[drag0nscythe]

You know they'll never add Kasumi because "Smash is for good boys and girls".

And that makes me very sad.

 

[SharkLord]

I looked her up and this was the first design I found (the first image wouldn't upload to SmashBoards):
View attachment 290444
It doesn't seem to be her original look, so I'm not gonna be like "boi wa'chu mean?", but since it does seem to be her newest design, I think they could pretty easily just use this if it came down to it.

Not entirely certain they'd pick Dead or Alive, but I don't think it's impossible.


EDIT: I just got my first Christmas ad...

Yeah, they'd have to use the DoA 6 design. Her most well-known outfit is more or less Blue Mai Shiranui.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m bored so I’m going to rank the still-standing rumors (I.e. no definite evidence to confirm or deny them) by how likely they are to be true. For reference, https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_rumors (also the Falcom rumor isn’t there yet, anyone wanna add it)?

Cacomallow: most likely false. the timer doesn’t look the same as the debug timer in the infamous Ken leak; the video uses an already existing stage (Hero’s stage) instead of potentially showing an upcoming one; several modders have shown it’s possible to replicate the physics of the Mallow hat; and it is just overall highly doubtful they’d beta test two hats almost a whole year in advance; especially when we already have a Bethesda costume (Vault Boy). Some French discord modders claimed to take credit, claiming to create “Grinch 2.0” but this statement cannot be verified. Regardless, the statement isn’t even that necessary when the time frame alone makes this very unlikely.

Crash Bandicoot documents: indeterminate. it hints at a five year plan for Crash based media across multiple systems, including Switch and PC. Switch ports have happened, Crash 4 was announced, but without actual access to it, we can’t verify if Crash was intended for Smash or not.

League of Legends character rumor: probably true. The rumor predicted the Trials of Mana Spirit Event three months in advance (4chan post dates back to January of this year, a few days after Byleth’s release) and even has a killswitch in the form of the Hollow Knight PreMiium Swordfighter prediction with a remix of Sealed Vessel. A League rep, while unexpected by many, would make sense in context: it’s huge. Almost Minecraft huge, has the televised yearly Worlds tournament, and has a console/mobile version of LoL, Wild Rift, due this year. It’s very possible Wild Rift may come to Switch. Of course, anything can happen at this point.

Falcom (Adol or Rean) rumor: probably false. there’s a lot overall that doesn’t add up, like being unsure if it’s Adol or Rean; the confusion over the Trails of Cold Steel spirits (whether they’re an event or Spirit Board with DLC); Estelle Bright from the more popular Trails in the Sky isn’t mentioned; and even though NIS helps develop Falcom’s games now according to someone else here, Falcom alone is still the IP holder and I would think you’d only need to negotiate with them, not NIS in addition. Plus, given the date of the original rumor (June 20), and claiming that they were in talks since last September... im not sure what to think of this one. There’s quite a few inconsistencies overall.

Ubisoft Chat Bot: indeterminate. before April 22, if you asked the Ubisoft Club bot, Sam, about Smash, it would post a response advocating for Rayman to be included, but after that date, mentioning Smash just gives a generic response. It doesn’t feel like an NDA, and could probably just mean nothing except Rayman not being in this pass.

GameStop “Geno in Smash” comment: indeterminate; probably nothing.
“During a section of the video going over the history of Mario RPG spin-offs, the host Pamela Horton states that "people were freaking out when Geno was announced for Smash", something that had not happened at the time, though the video used footage of Geno's Spirit Battle during that particular scene. The video was later marked private, and when it was made public again GameStop posted a comment explaining that it was referring to the speculation surrounding the Spirit and that GameStop does not have any inside knowledge of which fighters will or won't appear in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.”

Ryu Hayabusa: might be true? Vergeben has said KT has been in talks with Nintendo for years, and that Smash was mentioned. IAmShifty also predicted Hayabusa and he accurately predicted Piranha Plant. However, Vergeben has also raised the possibility of KT negotiations falling through for a playable character (they already have an AT; Fatal Frame’s Yuri Kozukata). We will see.

 

[Dinoman96]

I maintain that the LoL rumor claiming the Mana event was just a lucky guess.

Like it wasn't even THAT unpredictable anyways. Like for example, this one random Resetera user (who obviously doesn't have inside info) kept talking about it before it happened.

 

[cashregister9]

League of Legends character rumor: probably true. The rumor predicted the Trials of Mana Spirit Event three months in advance (4chan post dates back to January of this year, a few days after Byleth’s release) and even has a killswitch in the form of the Hollow Knight PreMiium Swordfighter prediction with a remix of Sealed Vessel. A League rep, while unexpected by many, would make sense in context: it’s huge. Almost Minecraft huge, has the televised yearly Worlds tournament, and has a console/mobile version of LoL, Wild Rift, due this year. It’s very possible Wild Rift may come to Switch. Of course, anything can happen at this point.

I feel like if this leak was true it would have come to fruition already, we have had 2 characters and several spirit events that were not listed in this leak, no sign of league anywhere, Like Dinoman96 said Trials of Mana getting a spirit event was not a hard guess. If a league character is CP 3 or 4 the leak seems to have to much detail for something way farther out than the leak insinuated.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I feel like if this leak was true it would have come to fruition already, we have had 2 characters and several spirit events that were not listed in this leak, no sign of league anywhere, Like Dinoman96 said Trials of Mana getting a spirit event was not a hard guess. If a league character is CP 3 or 4 the leak seems to have to much detail for something way farther out than the leak insinuated.

Keep in mind also though that DLC are worked on in batches of 3. When this rumor was posted Min Min and Steve were still in development. If true, I’d place a LoL rep at either FP8 or FP9

 

[TheBeastHimself]

It's funny a day later we're all still going on about the same Ryu Hayabusa argument lol.

I'm willing to just agree to disagree, clearly neither side is going have their mind changed, we're just going back and forth saying

"But Ryu has a legacy"

"No he doesn't"

"Yes he does"

"No he doesn't"

It's getting kind of silly.

 

[cashregister9]

Keep in mind also though that DLC are worked on in batches of 3. When this rumor was posted Min Min and Steve were still in development. If true, I’d place a LoL rep at either FP8 or FP9

I'm pretty sure that made in batches of 3 things is just conjecture because I don't think that was ever confirmed

EDIT: I was wrong lol

 

[Calane]

Sakurai is actually quoted as saying that he bought Ys 1 & 2, so... I'd say it is safe to say he is definitely an Ys fan, lol. And if we're comparing Ys to Trails, then yeah, Ys has more games on Nintendo consoles. Even if we trace Trails back to it's Dragon Slayer roots, that is still most likely the case(although Trails is ultimately a separate entity from Dragon Slayer now).

I compared them to the SMT/Persona situation because, at least in the circles I'm in, only SMT was taken seriously in terms of potential representation(before Joker's inclusion, that is). Those who suggested Persona weren't taken seriously at all, even if some people would have preferred a Persona rep(and admittedly, I was one of those people who wanted a Persona rep, but thought only an SMT rep was even remotely possible). As for why, it's mainly because SMT had a bigger presence on Nintendo consoles, where as Persona was almost strictly on Playstation(even with spinoffs like Persona Q making their way to the 3DS). To answer your question regarding SMT having a central protagonist... it's hard to know if it would have mattered that much.

The "face" of Falcom is also hard to judge at this point. This problem stems from the fact that Falcom titles weren't really getting localized in the west for years, and the fact that Falcom seems to be okay with pushing any of their series front and center as long as they seem like they have the potential to do well. That said, I think most JRPG fans in the west would have at least heard of Adol, even if they never played an Ys game. At the very least, I had definitely heard of Ys/Adol way before I ever played either an Ys or Trails games.

However, you can also argue that Trails has helped a lot with putting Falcom on the western market. Keep in mind that Trails really only started getting localized around 2014 to 2015. I'd say 2011, but Sky FC didn't sell well enough on the PSP for some reason, and they almost dropped localization for the series all together because of it. Where as we got Sky FC(on Steam - they even re-did the localization for it if I recall correctly) in 2014, Sky SC/CS1 in 2015, CS2 in 2016, Sky 3rd in 2017, CS3 in 2019 and CS4 today. That is seven(six if you don't count Sky FC) games within 6 years, all of them very difficult to localize due to the sheer volume of text within each game, yet Falcom decided to go forward with it anyways.

Over the past five years, Trails basically went from an unknown series(at least in the west) to becoming popular within JRPG circles(even if it's still considered niche). And while it isn't exactly impressive by Smash standards, Trails recently reached over 5 million sales total. Also keep in mind that there are still three other Trails titles that haven't been officially localized yet(Zero, Ao, and Hajimari), so if/when they are localized, those will help boost that number even more. And the last time it was recorded, Ys apparently had around 4.8 million in 2017(but it is kind of unfair to use that number since that number is from 2017 - unfortunately I can't find an updated number for some reason). Of course, I don't think sales really matter THAT much, because something that was initially ignored by people can always end up selling really well later on once people become more aware of it(looking at you Among Us). But my point is that it's really not easy to say that Ys/Adol is definitively the "face" of Falcom. Both series are important to Falcom in their own way, as they are both essentially flagship series for the company at this point.

I must admit, I'm actually not very familiar with the Trails series, so I appreciate the insight you gave me regarding it.

I'm not sure if I did or not, but I didn't mean to come off like I was saying Ys was more important than Trails or anything. I was already aware that both were considered flagship series' for Falcom, but I simply wasn't familiar enough with Estelle to know that she was basically as synonymous with the company as Adol.

Also, I actually misunderstood why you compared Ys & Trails to SMT & Persona the first time. Reading your explanation, it makes more sense now. If I had known what you meant, I probably wouldn't have asked that question, lol.

And, uh... This is probably going to sound stupid, but the reason I didn't flat-out claim Sakurai was an Ys fan was because I don't like speaking in absolutes. It's an annoying habit, but I won't claim something for certain unless I'm absolutely 100% sure about what I'm saying. I leave some room for doubt so that I don't get somebody running up going "actually" and whatnot, I guess.

Anyway, I appreciate the replies. I've learned more about Trails, and it was fun actually getting to talk about Ys for a bit.

 

[7NATOR]

I’m bored so I’m going to rank the still-standing rumors (I.e. no definite evidence to confirm or deny them) by how likely they are to be true. For reference, https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_rumors (also the Falcom rumor isn’t there yet, anyone wanna add it)?

Cacomallow: most likely false. the timer doesn’t look the same as the debug timer in the infamous Ken leak; the video uses an already existing stage (Hero’s stage) instead of potentially showing an upcoming one; several modders have shown it’s possible to replicate the physics of the Mallow hat; and it is just overall highly doubtful they’d beta test two hats almost a whole year in advance; especially when we already have a Bethesda costume (Vault Boy). Some French discord modders claimed to take credit, claiming to create “Grinch 2.0” but this statement cannot be verified. Regardless, the statement isn’t even that necessary when the time frame alone makes this very unlikely.

Crash Bandicoot documents: indeterminate. it hints at a five year plan for Crash based media across multiple systems, including Switch and PC. Switch ports have happened, Crash 4 was announced, but without actual access to it, we can’t verify if Crash was intended for Smash or not.

League of Legends character rumor: probably true. The rumor predicted the Trials of Mana Spirit Event three months in advance (4chan post dates back to January of this year, a few days after Byleth’s release) and even has a killswitch in the form of the Hollow Knight PreMiium Swordfighter prediction with a remix of Sealed Vessel. A League rep, while unexpected by many, would make sense in context: it’s huge. Almost Minecraft huge, has the televised yearly Worlds tournament, and has a console/mobile version of LoL, Wild Rift, due this year. It’s very possible Wild Rift may come to Switch. Of course, anything can happen at this point.

Falcom (Adol or Rean) rumor: probably false. there’s a lot overall that doesn’t add up, like being unsure if it’s Adol or Rean; the confusion over the Trails of Cold Steel spirits (whether they’re an event or Spirit Board with DLC); Estelle Bright from the more popular Trails in the Sky isn’t mentioned; and even though NIS helps develop Falcom’s games now according to someone else here, Falcom alone is still the IP holder and I would think you’d only need to negotiate with them, not NIS in addition. Plus, given the date of the original rumor (June 20), and claiming that they were in talks since last September... im not sure what to think of this one. There’s quite a few inconsistencies overall.

Ubisoft Chat Bot: indeterminate. before April 22, if you asked the Ubisoft Club bot, Sam, about Smash, it would post a response advocating for Rayman to be included, but after that date, mentioning Smash just gives a generic response. It doesn’t feel like an NDA, and could probably just mean nothing except Rayman not being in this pass.

GameStop “Geno in Smash” comment: indeterminate; probably nothing.
“During a section of the video going over the history of Mario RPG spin-offs, the host Pamela Horton states that "people were freaking out when Geno was announced for Smash", something that had not happened at the time, though the video used footage of Geno's Spirit Battle during that particular scene. The video was later marked private, and when it was made public again GameStop posted a comment explaining that it was referring to the speculation surrounding the Spirit and that GameStop does not have any inside knowledge of which fighters will or won't appear in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.”

Ryu Hayabusa: might be true? Vergeben has said KT has been in talks with Nintendo for years, and that Smash was mentioned. IAmShifty also predicted Hayabusa and he accurately predicted Piranha Plant. However, Vergeben has also raised the possibility of KT negotiations falling through for a playable character (they already have an AT; Fatal Frame’s Yuri Kozukata). We will see.

wait i thought Verge said he'd be surprised if Koei got nothing from the talks, and if the talks fell through.

Also I gotta ask, was there a bit of Bias when you say that LOL rumor is probably true, Consideing Ahri is one of your most wanted character? I Personally would put in in Might be True, like the Ryu rumors

I do say though that Trials of Mana wasn't impossible guess, but I don't think it was an easy guess at the time, since there wasn't really precendent for Square just giving out Spirit events like that. The rumor also fits the development timeline if League is FP8, but if she's not I'd say the leak takes an hit because it's been awhile

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Very few people predicted thing.
SmashBoards: "It wasn't a hard guess."

I'm well aware that amongst a kajilion people someone's gonna have the right idea at least sometimes, but that doesn't make accuracy any less easy.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I will say though that that leak rides on the HK costume. If a HK costume doesn’t happen, or if it does and the included song isn’t a remix of Sealed Vessel (or even if it comes with NO song) then the LoL leak is bunk

poster seems to be putting all their chips on that though

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'm pretty sure that made in batches of 3 things is just conjecture because I don't think that was ever confirmed

Actually, Sakurai made a japanese-only tweet a bit before Joker released talking about how the team was working on Joker, CP2 and CP3 at the same time.

It could have changed since then, but that's where this conjecture comes from.

 

[cashregister9]

This League leak, you would think if they knew details like an exact spirit event and a Song a mii costume comes with there is a good chance they would know specifically who at least one of the characters were, they didn't even give an exact league character just "it might be Ari" This is another "My Source Told Me" leak and I don't know why people think this one is different than the dozens of other leaks. "But it got something right" so did the, Hero/Banjo/Sylux/Edelgard leak and so did the Terry/Hayabusa leak. It could be true, it might not be we could even get Hollow Knight or League and not the other. there are dozens of possibilities here.

Actually, Sakurai made a japanese-only tweet a bit before Joker released talking about how the team was working on Joker, CP2 and CP3 at the same time.

It could have changed since then, but that's where this conjecture comes from.

Gotcha I was not sure

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah. TOM Spirits is too safe of a guess. I'll only believe the LoL leak if Hollow Knight does get a Mii Fighter costume and it gets the exact song correct.

 

[SNEKeater]

I must admit, I'm actually not very familiar with the Trails series, so I appreciate the insight you gave me regarding it.

I'm not sure if I did or not, but I didn't mean to come off like I was saying Ys was more important than Trails or anything. I was already aware that both were considered flagship series' for Falcom, but I simply wasn't familiar enough with Estelle to know that she was basically as synonymous with the company as Adol.

Also, I actually misunderstood why you compared Ys & Trails to SMT & Persona the first time. Reading your explanation, it makes more sense now. If I'd have known what you meant, I probably wouldn't have asked that question, lol.

And, uh... This is probably going to sound stupid, but the reason I didn't flat-out claim Sakurai was an Ys fan was because I don't like speaking in absolutes. It's an annoying habit, but I won't claim something for certain unless I'm absolutely 100% sure about what I'm saying. I leave some room for doubt so that I don't get somebody running up going "actually" and whatnot, I guess.

Anyway, I appreciate the replies. I've learned more about Trails, and it was fun actually getting to talk about Ys for a bit.

Your posts were also interesting regards info about Ys, at least for me.

As for Sakurai being or not a fan of Ys games, well, it's hard to tell. I think it's safe to say he's very familiar with the franchise, we know he played the 2 first games, that he likes JRPGs, Falcom games have more presence over there, and more.
We know he plays a lot of games so I'd be surprised if he hasn't played some Trails games as well. If I had to bet I at least think he likes Ys. Maybe he isn't a diehard fan, but I don't think that's a blow for Adol's chances.

PD: A bit off topic, but I'm planning to buy Ys VIII soon. Probably will also pick 1 or 2 classic Ys games on Steam. Haven't tried the series yet so I'm very curious.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

"We'll have to extend our development time" doesn't make it seem like Min Min was only worked on for 3 months when an ARMS rep was announced.

Bro, they said that as a pun. Just like they did longer.

 

[Eldrake]

Infinite monkeys on an infinite typewriters. There's so many fake leaks posted every day that at least one of them is bound to be accidentally accurate about one or two things. Like the one fake leak saying Chrom as a Roy echo.

 

[Calane]

Your posts were also interesting regards info about Ys, at least for me.

As for Sakurai being or not a fan of Ys games, well, it's hard to tell. I think it's safe to say he's very familiar with the franchise, we know he played the 2 first games, that he likes JRPGs, Falcom games have more presence over there, and more.
We know he plays a lot of games so I'd be surprised if he hasn't played some Trails games as well. If I had to bet I at least think he likes Ys. Maybe he isn't a diehard fan, but I don't think that's a blow for Adol's chances.

PD: A bit off topic, but I'm planning to buy Ys VIII soon. Probably will also pick 1 or 2 classic Ys games on Steam. Haven't tried the series yet so I'm very curious.

Thanks, man. If there's one thing I like doing, it's rattling on about games I enjoy, lol.

Also, if you really pick up Ys VIII, all I can say is have fun. It's a candidate for my favorite game of all time. You can't go wrong with any of the classics either, I'd say. Ys is just an incredibly fun series, really. Well, at least in my opinion.

 

[Koopaul]

I cannot agree here, I'm aware that it was Fed Force or nothing but that doesn't change anything, it still means that after 7 years of no new games after the most hated game in the franchise, they tried selling Metroid fans a game they didn't want with no new mainline entry in sight, FedForce would have a significantly warmer reception if they switched the reveals and release dates of Samus Returns and Fed Force.

Yeah it doesn't work like that. And anyone who thinks that has no idea what they are talking about. Nintendo doesn't plan to release these games like you are suggestiing. Games are made when they can be made. Games are released when they can be released. They cannot swap the releases of these games. And Nintendo doesn't snap their fingers and round up a team to make games. They straight up restarted Metroid Prime 4 because they didn't like how it was going. Nintendo is insanely particular about how a mainline game should be and who should make it. But a simple spin off is different. Next Level Games just so happen to be making a first person shooter on the 3DS at the time. The stars aligned and Federation Force was made. The fact that they decided apply the Metroid brand to Next Level's project shows Nintendo believes the brand can make money. Which is always a good thing in my eyes.

People who were upset at a 5 minute echo being included as a bonus in the base game would have thrown a fit regardless of who the echo was and regardless of what characters were already on the roster, not to mention that again, 1 echo fighter cannot under any circumstances compare to a franchise not getting any new installments for 7 years only to be told that they should look forward to something that's devoid of what makes Metroid the beloved franchise it is.

Please don't talk to me about 7 years when I as a DK fan had to wait 10 years from DK64 to DKC Returns with nothing but Bongos and peg swingers. Sometimes you have to wait a long time when a series does not have a designated development team. Also Federation Force is not devoid of anything Metroid and it shows that you probably never played/looked into it. And based on your opinions on ARMS you probably do this for a lot of games.

This just tells me you only care about F Zero as a name if you're genuinely telling me you'd be excited for a new Tomodachi Life with F Zero's name slapped on the title with zero high speed risk vs reward racing. This is like saying a Golden Sun game where you have a gun and violently murder everyone would be a cool idea, it's just not what the fanbase is interested in and as a result, comes across as incredibly tonedeaf after well over a decade of no new games.

Like I said, if Nintendo made a spin off for F-Zero it is a sign that they are still interested in the IP and may make a new title in the future. Right now there is dead silence, and a spin off would be a sign of life and a glimmer of hope. I already said this and you completely ignored it.

So yeah I think you've proved my point. You take Nintendo releasing FF as being tone deaf instead of understanding that it was the result of timing and circumstance. Just like people felt about Lucina and Dark Pit.

 

[SKX31]

So I've kinda noticed a pattern: we got an all new spirit event after Byleth's and Min Min's tourney events.

Some Training, Professor? - February 7th
Ready? Wallop! - February 14th

Embrace Victory! - July 6th
Second Anniversary of OCTOPATH TRAVELER - July 10th

As last week was Steve's tourney, perhaps we're due for a culling tonight? lol

If that indeed happens:

[Replace Byleth with the series about to be Spirited]

I’m bored so I’m going to rank the still-standing rumors (I.e. no definite evidence to confirm or deny them) by how likely they are to be true. For reference, https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_rumors (also the Falcom rumor isn’t there yet, anyone wanna add it)?

Hey, kudos for going through each in detail.

I feel like if this leak was true it would have come to fruition already, we have had 2 characters and several spirit events that were not listed in this leak, no sign of league anywhere, Like Dinoman96 said Trials of Mana getting a spirit event was not a hard guess. If a league character is CP 3 or 4 the leak seems to have to much detail for something way farther out than the leak insinuated.

Regardless of the leak being true or not, I'd still argue it's worth keeping an eye out for LoL. Partly because Tencent is bear-hugging Nintendo like crazy. I can't imagine a Tencent staffer saying this back in last November:

But it sounds like Tencent's ambitions with Nintendo don't end with the China collaboration.

"What we want is to expand from China, and one target is console game players in the US and Europe," an unidentified Tencent staffer told the Wall Street Journal in a piece published over the weekend. "We hope to create console games with Nintendo characters, and learn the essence of making console games from Nintendo engineers."

Without the idea of Smash Bros having come up in the talks.

It's worth noting that Nintendo let Tencent host a China-exclusive Ring Fit Direct back in August* and Tencent's recently become a third party publisher for the Switch via their NeXT Studios. Crown Trick, Iris.Fall and Biped are all on the Switch by now, not to mention TPC letting Tencent's TiMi (Tencent's mobile dev, companies like Capcom, Activision-Blizzard and SNK also rely on TiMi for mobile outings) handle Pokemon Unite.

I distinctly remember that a popular Chinese streamer with close connections to Tencent leaked the Chinese Switch's details on the Chinese internet in July 2019 - one month before Nintendo and Tencent showed off the Chinese Switch. And most of those details turned out to be true. Most, there were some quirks - he claimed that the Chinese Switch would not be region-locked, in reality the Chinese Switch is (in that it can play international cartridges, but those cartridges can't access the online at all).

I'm keeping an eye out for Tencent for those reasons. Yes, the usual counterpoints apply: close business relationship = / = playable character in Smash (just ask Ubisoft), and the recency of discussions (with discussions re: the Chinese Switch starting in 2018) might've hampered things quite a lot. There's also the question of how much Nintendo will allow. Still, there are some major reasons I consider them dark horses.

And I'm not getting into the fact that Riot themselves made a Brawl / Project M mod.

*(Which, incidentally, highlights how few Nintendo Switch games have seen official releases in China - 12 since December IIRC. The video game regulator there has some absurd requirements.)

Infinite monkeys on an infinite typewriters. There's so many fake leaks posted every day that at least one of them is bound to be accidentally accurate about one or two things. Like the one fake leak saying Chrom as a Roy echo.

That should be kept in mind, yes. That one reason why I'm personally not as gung-ho about the LoL leak, another reason is that it's 4chan and thus little accountability. It could be a staffer, but it could just as likely be a random person taking a guess.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Yeah it doesn't work like that. And anyone who thinks that has no idea what they are talking about. Nintendo doesn't plan to release these games like you are suggestiing. Games are made when they can be made. Games are released when they can be released. They cannot swap the releases of these games. And Nintendo doesn't snap their fingers and round up a team to make games. They straight up restarted Metroid Prime 4 because they didn't like how it was going. Nintendo is insanely particular about how a mainline game should be and who should make it. But a simple spin off is different. Next Level Games just so happen to be making a first person shooter on the 3DS at the time. The stars aligned and Federation Force was made. The fact that they decided apply the Metroid brand to Next Level's project shows Nintendo believes the brand can make money. Which is always a good thing in my eyes.


Please don't talk to me about 7 years when I as a DK fan had to wait 10 years from DK64 to DKC Returns with nothing but Bongos and peg swingers. Sometimes you have to wait a long time when a series does not have a designated development team. Also Federation Force is not devoid of anything Metroid and it shows that you probably never played/looked into it. And based on your opinions on ARMS you probably do this for a lot of games.


Like I said, if Nintendo made a spin off for F-Zero it is a sign that they are still interested in the IP and may make a new title in the future. Right now there is dead silence, and a spin off would be a sign of life and a glimmer of hope. I already said this and you completely ignored it.

So yeah I think you've proved my point. You take Nintendo releasing FF as being tone deaf instead of understanding that it was the result of timing and circumstance. Just like people felt about Lucina and Dark Pit.

Goemon fan here. Last game in the west was in 2000. Last game in the series was 2005. Panchislot machines dont count.
The wait can be real.

 

[LucKekkai]

I must admit, I'm actually not very familiar with the Trails series, so I appreciate the insight you gave me regarding it.

I'm not sure if I did or not, but I didn't mean to come off like I was saying Ys was more important than Trails or anything. I was already aware that both were considered flagship series' for Falcom, but I simply wasn't familiar enough with Estelle to know that she was basically as synonymous with the company as Adol.

Also, I actually misunderstood why you compared Ys & Trails to SMT & Persona the first time. Reading your explanation, it makes more sense now. If I had known what you meant, I probably wouldn't have asked that question, lol.

And, uh... This is probably going to sound stupid, but the reason I didn't flat-out claim Sakurai was an Ys fan was because I don't like speaking in absolutes. It's an annoying habit, but I won't claim something for certain unless I'm absolutely 100% sure about what I'm saying. I leave some room for doubt so that I don't get somebody running up going "actually" and whatnot, I guess.

Anyway, I appreciate the replies. I've learned more about Trails, and it was fun actually getting to talk about Ys for a bit.

Oh, I didn't get the impression that you were saying that Ys is more important. Rather, I could tell you were just saying that Adol is the most likely candidate. Which is fair, since we all tend to do that when speculating. I just wanted to offer a counter argument since I felt that Estelle's chances have been underestimated by even those who want her in(trust me, I've talked with other people about this at length, and quite a few of them think that only Adol or Rean have a chance, period). I've said it before, but I'd be happy no matter what Falcom character gets added, since I appreciate Falcom as a whole. Not to mention that Ys 8 is literally one of my all time favorite games, so... getting Adol in is just as much of a win for me as Estelle or Rean, lol.

Fair point about Sakurai and Ys, although I still think it's a safe bet regardless. He mentioned Ys 1 & 2 among a bunch of other games in that Q&A. In fact, here is the source and quote(for anyone else who is interested, since I'm certain Calane already knows about this):

Sakurai Answers 100 Questions from Fans

Hi everyone, Brando here with a translated Q&A session translated from 桜井正博ゲームについて思うことDX, released July 30th 2008. In this article, Sakurai answers fans’ questions about games, his person…

sourcegaming.info

Spoiler: Q&A Quote

Q37: What games have you bought on the Wii Virtual Console?

Sakurai: Though It may not be too useful, “Donkey Kong”, “Mario Brothers”, “Solomon’s Key”, “Kid Icarus”, “The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past”, “Ninja Gaiden”, “Super Mario Brothers 2”, “Super Mario Brothers 3”, “Life Force”, “Dungeon Explorer”, “Moto Roader”, “Comix Zone”, “Ys I & II”, “Zanac”, “Glory of Heracles III”, “Fist of the North Star”, “Super Picross”, “The Adventure of Link”, etc.

Granted, he is only talking about what he had purchased, so you can't say for certain that he likes the games. But, I dunno... I think mentioning it in this context implies that he probably played them, otherwise they may not have been on his mind at that point in time.

Anyways, yeah, it has been fun. I'm still waiting on Cold Steel 4 to arrive in the mail, so I've just been sitting around doing nothing, lol. It's nice to have something to talk about here instead of going out of my mind waiting for UPS to arrive...

 

[GoodGrief741]

"What did Casablanca do for movies? It's just an old forgotten relic that nobody cares about"

Well it's still fondly remembered by many and seen as a classic. It still ho-

"Those people are just an echo chamber of the toxic old movie culture. You're just biased. Show me what influence it had"

It started a trend of WWII movies-

"Nuh-uh, it wasn't the first war movie. The fact that you have to look for such specific things to praise is proof that it has no legacy"

It made big stars out of actors such as Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid-

"They're both dead, clearly its impact hasn't lived until today, therefore it's worthless"

Every time I read the... "argument" that Ninja Gaiden isn't iconic I just groan.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Goemon fan here. Last game in the west was in 2000. Last game in the series was 2005. Panchislot machines dont count.
The wait can be real.

Can't we just blame that one on Konami being Konami?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think the Dark Horse picks this time around boil down to Falcom and a China centric character. LoL is an easy one since it’s huge over there but I’m sure there’s a lot of other possibilities for characters or franchises that are popular in China.

I would rather Kasumi from DOA. and a DW rep then Ryu. He is a bland ninja from a try-hard series that did nothing but bring out some of the worst in gamers and the "dark souls get gud" culture that dominated and destroyed a good portion of gaming for a few years. I hate that character. absolutely.

Kind of a bummer for me as a fan that you feel this way but your opinion is yours. There’s no harm in disliking a character. I could implore you to give the series another chance but you seem to be dead set.

 

[7NATOR]

With Tencent/Riot games, Activision, WB Games/Netherrealm, EA, etc as possible options, along with the confirmed appearance of Mojiang as represented company, It would be interesting if FP2 is actually more Western Centric than Japanese Centric this time around

then again, I don't think they would have started with Min-Min if they had these big Western Characters in store, so I Don't know

 

[drag0nscythe]

I think the Dark Horse picks this time around boil down to Falcom and a China centric character. LoL is an easy one since it’s huge over there but I’m sure there’s a lot of other possibilities for characters or franchises that are popular in China.

Kind of a bummer for me as a fan that you feel this way but your opinion is yours. There’s no harm in disliking a character. I could implore you to give the series another chance but you seem to be dead set.

I can give it another shot. But I was really, really soured by the entire series with the Xbox Series. Having endless debates about "what is a real gamer" and "get gud". I remember so many of the "you are not a real gamer if X" conversations going on and at the time, it was NG that lead the charge. And then the game had to insult people who were not up to the standards the hat of a creator expected. Was worse then the Undertale fans during their annoying hayday.

I will go back and try the NES games. I have them on my Wii. I will see if my opinion changes. There is lots of love for the series here.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It made big stars out of actors such as Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid-

"They're both dead, clearly its impact hasn't lived until today, therefore it's worthless"

Well that took a turn that I wasn't ready for.

 

[3BitSaurus]

You know, come to think of it, maybe I shouldn't be a part of the Ryu argument, tbh. I do understand where people are coming from.

After all, you can only get 2-framed by these ******* birds so many times without developing a grudge against the game.

 

[Dinoman96]

Smash Ultimate in general has been more accommodating with western games in comparison to prior games.

Banjo & Kazooie and Steve as playable fighters, with accompanying BK/Minecraft stages, spirits, music and Mii outfits.
Shovel Knight assist trophy, with accompanying SK spirits
Mii outfits for Fallout, Assassin's Creed, Rabbids, Undertale, and Cuphead, the latter two coming with accompanying music tracks, and spirits in Cuphead's case
Spirits for Rayman, Mario + Rabbids, Shantae, and Warframe.

Compare that to like, Smash 4 where literally the only form of western owned content were a few trophies of Rayman characters and CommanderVideo.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

“Ninja Gaiden”,

Can't we just blame that one on Konami being Konami?

Konami was pretty ok back then. They didn’t start hitting their **** show until like, 2011 when they pushed Igarashi out. But I can’t really say that they weren’t also terrible with the creator of Goemon since they seem to have a habit of doing that.

With Tencent/Riot games, Activision, WB Games/Netherrealm, EA, etc as possible options, along with the confirmed appearance of Mojiang as represented company, It would be interesting if FP2 is actually more Western Centric than Japanese Centric this time around

then again, I don't think they would have started with Min-Min if they had these big Western Characters in store, so I Don't know

I don’t think the position of the characters really points to the outcome of the pass considering Min Min is technically in the same spot as Piranha Plant just not free.

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

Hayabusa becoming playable is certainly quite plausible. However, it's also moderately possible he ends up as a Mii Swordfighter costume. The idea of us ending up with a case of Sakurai saying something like "don't forget to set your Mii up with Shuriken of Light to complete the set!" seems... on the table.