Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Polan]

ninja gaiden music ****ing slaps like damn.

now i'm gonna be sad if he doesn't get in

 

[Dust319]

So if we’re getting Ryu Hayabusa, any bets how the game will refer to him? Just Hayabusa? Ryu Hayabusa? Or just Ryu and confuse the heck out of casuals?

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/501288125914677250/617359671853973514/image0.jpg
Vergeben knows that the next fighter is not Ryu Hayabusa, still hoping that Lloyd Irving is the next fighter.

There are a few takeaways I have for this. Since he hasn't made a public post on the topic yet, Vergeben probably doesn't believe Shifty because Verge's sources either told him a different name or didn't tell him anything about Smash DLC for him to make a strong educated guess. It is important to note Vergeben did back up Banjo-Kazooie being in Smash after Shinobi's vague Banjo-Kazooie post, and Shifty is still the only person whose flatout saying Ryu Hayabusa is next despite not making leak videos for any of the previous 3 DLC characters. Whether if he's right or wrong, I'm still hoping Hayabusa is indeed the next Fighter in the Pass since he's my most wanted pick.

I also wanted to bring up Doom Slayer because I'm surprised people haven't said a 3rd M rated game character in the Pass would be the same as a 3rd JRPG character in the Pass. I can get that it's an apples to oranges comparison since 1 is an age rating and the other is a specific genre, but if I'm not keen on a 3rd JRPG character getting in like Lloyd or Velvet, I probably won't be keen on a 3rd adult rated game character getting in like Doomguy or Leon even if they're extremely different to Persona and Ninja Gaiden.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

For Female characters, it's possible they might go to the niche side on that part since outside of Jill,Lara Croft,2B,Kasumi or Tracer, there's not a lot of possible well known female characters to be picked(and even then Lara/2B's chances are pretty unlikely due to hero taking the square-enix spot).

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

So if we’re getting Ryu Hayabusa, any bets how the game will refer to him? Just Hayabusa? Ryu Hayabusa? Or just Ryu and confuse the heck out of casuals?

Probably Ninja Gaiden. After all, two Roys and two Ryus would probably kill all casual play in the game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Probably Ninja Gaiden. After all, two Roys and two Ryus would probably kill all casual play in the game.

Ninja Gaiden’s the name of the game series though, it would be weird to refer to the character by that

IF he’s in I predict they’ll call him just Hayabusa.

 

[RileyXY1]

There are a few takeaways I have for this. Since he hasn't made a public post on the topic yet, Vergeben probably doesn't believe Shifty because Verge's sources either told him a different name or didn't tell him anything about Smash DLC for him to make a strong educated guess. It is important to note Vergeben did back up Banjo-Kazooie being in Smash after Shinobi's vague Banjo-Kazooie post, and Shifty is still the only person whose flatout saying Ryu Hayabusa is next despite not making leak videos for any of the previous 3 DLC characters. Whether if he's right or wrong, I'm still hoping Hayabusa is indeed the next Fighter in the Pass since he's my most wanted pick.

I also wanted to bring up Doom Slayer because I'm surprised people haven't said a 3rd M rated game character in the Pass would be the same as a 3rd JRPG character in the Pass. I can get that it's an apples to oranges comparison since 1 is an age rating and the other is a specific genre, but if I'm not keen on a 3rd JRPG character getting in like Lloyd or Velvet, I probably won't be keen on a 3rd adult rated game character getting in like Doomguy or Leon even if they're extremely different to Persona and Ninja Gaiden.

I also don't really want three M rated game characters in the Fighter Pass.

 

[YsDisciple]

On the topic of potential female characters, I'd like to bring Valkyrie (from her self-titled series) to everyone's attention. True that her main line games came out during the early days (NES era) and she's mostly been known in later years as a "cameo" character in various Namco games; but she could still be a possibility as a contender as a Bandai Namco rep.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

On the topic of potential female characters, I'd like to bring Valkyrie (from her self-titled series) to everyone's attention. True that her main line games came out during the early days (NES era) and she's mostly been known in later years as a "cameo" character in various Namco games; but she could still be a possibility as a contender as a Bandai Namco rep.

I feel like KOS-MOS would be more likely as both a female character and Bandai Namco rep, as even though she’s mostly cameos nowadays, more people know who she is, and Xenosaga fans have clamored for the series to be released on modern platforms for years

 

[zferolie]

I am. Ot sire if others have mentioned this, but since both Joker and Hero have more complex movesets then most of the cast(joker and his persona system, Hero and his magic system) and i have a feeling Banjo may use a collection/ammo system based on his trailer(likenhis up b changes if he has red feathers or not), is it safe to guess the last 2 characters also may have more complex gameplay systems? Shantae witj dance transformations, Jill with a zombie summon or inventory system, Reimu using a bullet hell and grazing system, as a few examples. Would Ryu or Doomslayer bring anysort of complicated ganeplay? Doomslayer maybe needing to melee attack to reload his weapons at best, but have no ideas for Ryu.

Again, this is just a guess.

Also, are people just so fast to abandon that old rumor about a female game character(not the recrnt 4chan one that old japanese one)

 

[Guynamednelson]

So if we’re getting Ryu Hayabusa, any bets how the game will refer to him? Just Hayabusa? Ryu Hayabusa? Or just Ryu and confuse the heck out of casuals?

Do what they did with the two Roys' announcer calls.

"Ryu!" "Ryu."

 

[RileyXY1]

I am. Ot sire if others have mentioned this, but since both Joker and Hero have more complex movesets then most of the cast(joker and his persona system, Hero and his magic system) and i have a feeling Banjo may use a collection/ammo system based on his trailer(likenhis up b changes if he has red feathers or not), is it safe to guess the last 2 characters also may have more complex gameplay systems? Shantae witj dance transformations, Jill with a zombie summon or inventory system, Reimu using a bullet hell and grazing system, as a few examples. Would Ryu or Doomslayer bring anysort of complicated ganeplay? Doomslayer maybe needing to melee attack to reload his weapons at best, but have no ideas for Ryu.

Again, this is just a guess.

Also, are people just so fast to abandon that old rumor about a female game character(not the recrnt 4chan one that old japanese one)

That rumor's only piece of credible information was that it claimed that Hero would not have female alts, which is true.

 

[zferolie]

I feel like KOS-MOS would be more likely as both a female character and Bandai Namco rep, as even though she’s mostly cameos nowadays, more people know who she is, and Xenosaga fans have clamored for the series to be released on modern platforms for years

I do think the most likelt namco character now is KOS-MOS, not just as a namco rep but its tied to the xeno series. Plus she is pretty famous on both side of the ocean.

That rumor's only piece of credible information was that it claimed that Hero would not have female alts, which is true.

And this Ryu one is just a guy who may have been the forst to say plant and marx as bosses. A marx boss to be honest is an easy guess, knowing bosses were returning with rathalos and sakurao loves his kirby series. Plant is harder to prove as a lucky guess though

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I do think the most likelt namco character now is KOS-MOS, not just as a namco rep but its tied to the xeno series. Plus she is pretty famous on both side of the ocean.



And this Ryu one is just a guy who may have been the forst to say plant and marx as bosses. A marx boss to be honest is an easy guess, knowing bosses were returning with rathalos and sakurao loves his kirby series. Plant is harder to prove as a lucky guess though

Re:KOS-MOS - that, and I feel a Tales rep’s chances have dropped due to Hero, someone like Lloyd would probably cause fantasy JRPG swordsman fatigue, and Sakurai said before that implementing Heihachi and the Tekken style of fighting would be very difficult. KOS-MOS would be easy to implement AND would be a sci-fi JRPG robot girl which would be a nice change of pace

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

So if we’re getting Ryu Hayabusa, any bets how the game will refer to him? Just Hayabusa? Ryu Hayabusa? Or just Ryu and confuse the heck out of casuals?

Just Hayabusa. That's how he's labeled in the Dead or Alive games anyways.

Spoiler

Edit: Just quote the post to see the image I guess

 

[StormC]

Just can't get into that mindset. This is just a game, variety is more important than "representation", and there's already plenty of female characters in the base game. It's not that I'm against them (gimme Dixie, Gruntilda, Chun Li or Jill), it's just... is it that hard to judge characters by their own merits?

If you disagree well, then you arent' going to accomplish much by telling people who don't care about "representation" that they should care for it.

Representation is variety, though. This isn't the 80s anymore. Video gaming has long stopped being a boy's club, despite GamerGate's best attempts.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Representation isn't just a problem with Smash but the gaming industry as a whole. Actually, how many Black lead characters are in video games. I'd wager there's more women to be honest.

 

[Flyboy]

Representation isn't just a problem with Smash but the gaming industry as a whole. Actually, how many Black lead characters are in video games. I'd wager there's more women to be honest.

This is why we need a black female character in the fighter pass. Elma Gang never die

 

[DarthEnderX]

So if Ryu Hayabusa is the final character what music would he come with?

Well, obviously Unbreakable Determination.

After long thought, and despite my short time here, I'm done with my part of DLC Discussion. As much as I don't want to repeat myself, it seems my claims fell on deaf ears.

Yes, going into the Ryu support thread and saying everyone that was happy Ryu might be getting in was sexist, shockingly, didn't go over well.

I'm so with you. I hate how the internet made it impossible to remain unspoiled about anything

Do you though? You're both complaining about spoilers, but you both regularly hang out in the Smash Forums thread that is basically dedicated to leaks and spoilers.

I feel like you're calling it impossible without having made the least bit of effort to avoid them.

So if we’re getting Ryu Hayabusa, any bets how the game will refer to him? Just Hayabusa? Ryu Hayabusa? Or just Ryu and confuse the heck out of casuals?

Well, we do have two Roys. So two Ryus IS possible.

 

[YezenIRl]

To me I'll be hoping it's not Ryu Hayabusa till we actually see it. Since I don't play Ninja Gaiden I don't have the character's story to be interested in him, and I'm just not compelled at all by his design, nor do I think Smash Bros is short on ninjas. However, I understand that he has history and that it's not all about me, and I have more than enough characters I've wanted in Smash.

Also...two guys named Ryu? lol

Also, as someone who thinks Doomslayer is a fantastic idea who is very likely, I don't think Ryu increases his chances, I actually think Ryu decreases them. Two characters in a row from M Rated games gives me pause tbh.

As for the whole female characters debate, I think there are definitely female 3rd party characters that are big enough (Lara Croft, Jill Valentine, Frisk, Tracer, D.VA, Chun Li, etc etc.) But if it doesn't happen it doesn't happen. Not because non of them were big enough but probably just for a lot of business relates reasons. Nintendo has never been big on racial/gender diversity quotas so I don't think it makes sense to expect them to pay attention to something like that.

I mean, Ryu Hayabusa's series hasn't been doing well in sales or scores for years now, so if he gets in it's probably more to do with the relationship between Nintendo and TK.

 

[Megadoomer]

Also...two guys named Ryu? lol

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

One female fighter that doesn't get a lot of talks is Katrielle Layton. While I don't think she's will be in the game, I think she would be the perfect female fighter because her game appeal to a very large audience (like casual).

 

[Flyboy]

One female fighter that doesn't get a lot of talks is Katrielle Layton. While I don't think she's will be in the game, I think she would be the perfect female fighter because her game appeal to a very large audience (like casual).

The Layton thread has been tossing her around. Obviously we want the Prof first, but she has a lot of unique potential with her outfits that would make her a very fun pick.

 

[Sari]

Also...two guys named Ryu? lol

In Dead or Alive he's usually referred to as Hayabusa so they could just go with that.

 

[StormC]

I could see like, the trailer calls him "Ryu Hayabusa," but in the actual Smash game he's just Hayabusa, kind of like how Hero was called "the Hero," and then they just settled on... Hero.

I still think it's weird that Simon/Richter aren't called their full names with the Belmont surname. It'd be like leaving out the Kong names for Donkey/Diddy.

 

[zferolie]

One female fighter that doesn't get a lot of talks is Katrielle Layton. While I don't think she's will be in the game, I think she would be the perfect female fighter because her game appeal to a very large audience (like casual).

I really wanted to play her debute game but the one i had on hold at gamestop the regional manager took from me, and i havent found a copy since...

 

[DarthEnderX]

On the subject of female characters:

Looking at my own long wishlist of characters, it looks like I don't have a female character until #9.
Though, in my defense, my top picks are all NES era characters. And, unfortunately, the notable female characters from that era are already IN Smash.

Looking at my overall list of 30ish picks, looks like I have 7 female picks. Though some of those are shared slots like Captain Toad/Toadette, Spring Man/Ribbon Girl.

 

[zferolie]

On the subject of female characters:

Looking at my own long wishlist of characters, it looks like I don't have a female character until #9.
Though, in my defense, my top picks are all NES era characters. And, unfortunately, the notable female characters from that era are already IN Smash.

Looking at my overall list of 30ish picks, looks like I have 7 female picks. Though some of those are shared slots like Captain Toad/Toadette, Spring Man/Ribbon Girl.

Yeah not too many big name NES female leads that arent in already. Most were japanese exclusive like shin Onigashima or famicom Detective club

 

[TheYungLink]

On the subject of female characters and diversity, I'm going to link my favorite tweet on the subject.

It's not about adding diversity for the sake of diversity, it's about subtracting homogeneity for the sake of realism.

— Mary Robinette Kowal (@MaryRobinette) December 18, 2014

People don't necessarily want female characters because they're female, they just don't want most or all of the newcomers to be male.

I'm a guy and I agree.

 

[ze9]

Representation is variety, though. This isn't the 80s anymore. Video gaming has long stopped being a boy's club, despite GamerGate's best attempts.

I mean, Ultimate has more female characters than Smash 64 had characters period. If you count everyone, that's more than 20. I think there's already a good amount of options. If the objective is having a perfect 50:50 ratio, let's just agree to disagree.
Dixie 4 Smash

 

[StormC]

If the objective is having a perfect 50:50 ratio

The objective is to have at least 1 out of 5. This is a disingenuous way of framing the issue. People want at least one fully playable female character on the Pass, which shouldn't be an unreasonable demand. It isn't like they're picking objectively the five most qualified characters and they all happen to be male; in a world where Joker and Banjo are on this Pass, Nintendo/Sakurai surely could have picked from one of many female characters.

Again, this is not a dealbreaker for me, personally. But I can understand why it's disappointing to others, especially women, and that I feel like it's not the greatest of optics on Nintendo's part. But at this point I imagine most people who would want to buy the Fighters Pass probably have anyway.

 

[perfectchaos83]

My stance, I don't believe it. Personally, I don't see much reason for Ryu given what Nintendo has said about the DLC to begin with. I'm not sure what new demographic he brings in. You can argue the Koei Tecmo audience, but DoA is more or less their flagship title at the moment where Kasumi makes more sense. He's a legacy character that, right now, feels like he's in purgatory outside of making appearances in DoA. Ryu is very much a character that appeals to the 'old guard' that technically Banjo appeals to. To me, it seems redundant.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I bet Ryu Hayabusa's reveal trailer assuming he's true will involveand

Also 3 player Smash between ninjas. Think about that.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don’t care much about diversity in games, though I certainly wouldn’t like it if it was nothing but guys or girls all the time.

Which is probably why I don’t care much, since there’s usually some nice female characters alongside the males so it feels normal.

Regarding Smash, we at least got Kazooie with Banjo in the pass, and a nice amount of female characters in base with some allowing you to be either male or female (including some of the ‘mons, though I feel Jigglypuff is definitely female). Of course, Sakurai and Nintendo could’ve definitely chosen characters like Shantae or whoever, or upgraded Midna.

 

[YezenIRl]

In response to that Mary Robinette tweet, I don't think it applies in this context. She is talking about how media should depict diversity because it reflects the diversity in the real world. That doesn't really apply with Smash, which is a catalogue of Nintendo and gaming icons.

Not that I don't consider diversity important, or wouldn't be happy with more women (give me Tracer, Lara Croft or Jill Valentine over generic Ninja Guy any day).

But I do think that people applying identity politics to the fighter pass are being a little bit hypocritical/self centered/white centric. After all, there is all this uproar over "what if they do a fighter pass and none of them are female? that is unfair for gender equality." And yet Smash has arguably 1 Black character. Arguably. Heck, Smash is a Japanese game, yet how many characters can you honestly say are asian? as a guy who has no interest in Ryu, does Ryu Hayabusa not get representation credit for being a Japanese guy? Does represenation only count in reference to white people?

If we really want to discuss character inclusion from the standpoint of representation (which we don't have to, but we can if you're genuinely concerned), then there is a lot of work to do, and a lack of female characters is so far away from being the main representation issue in Smash, or in gaming.

Personally, I think the fighter pass is just 5 optional characters. I don't hold it to any self contained representation quotas.

 

[Deleted member]

If I'm honest here, I want a fully playable female character because at this point this type of characters give the roster a lot more variety.

Part of what is enticing for me as a fighting game fan is to see multiple archetypes being represented in the game, and theres a lot of female characters archetypes that feel like a pretty obvious omission like a female brawler/hand to hand fighter.

Smash has never been a game museum so there shouldn't be any barriers to add any character, even if the picks are not as popular within the fanbase or big moneymakers that hasn't stopped most of the roster from appearing.

 

[YezenIRl]

I'm just going to leave this here.

Yea yea, but who even notices Roy Koopa?

 

[Curious Villager]

One female fighter that doesn't get a lot of talks is Katrielle Layton. While I don't think she's will be in the game, I think she would be the perfect female fighter because her game appeal to a very large audience (like casual).

As Flyboy said, she's been brought up a few times in the Layton support thread, while most agree that the prof should take priority, she's still an alright alternative if they where to go that route, especially if she brings her cosplay outfits as alts as it would give access to more characters in the series, even if its just her dressing up as them. The modding potential would also be interesting to see with her as her base design matches up with a lot of other characters in the series.

Wether its Hershel or Kat, both characters in general are popular with female audiences so the series can certainly appeal to that demographic if they are looking for a character like that.

 

[blackghost]

I'm not saying that Doomguy is a lock or anything, but really, music potential is probably the least of his problems and if you wonder what music Doom could bring, you clearly never played a Doom game. Just take a listen to At doom's gate, Running from evil, Kitchen ace and Hiding the secrets (these are personal favorites, but there's more than that). Not only Doom would bring excellent music, but also a music genre that we don't really have in Smash.

As for the stages, I don't see how exactly that's an issue. We got stage based from open world (breath of the wild), from semi open world (delfino plaza for example), racing game track (f-zero levels), 2d platformer level and so on. I don't see how a corridor FPS would cause problem. I think a good Doom stage would be the Tower of babel, but it could also be a more generic stage based on Hell.

i dont think smash is gonna drop a stage called hell. sounds like attention nintendo rather not draw. Also limiting an open-world game is completely different from expanding one with narrow halls as part of its identity.
also yes ive played doom.
personally im not into a gun based character nor do i think the competitive scene would actually like it once the novelty wears off. even killer instinct when they added a halo character choose to go with arbiter OVER master chief becuase there's more to work with.

Also doesn't help that literally every female newcomer so far for Ultimate is either an echo (Daisy, Dark Samus), a semiclone (Isabelle), has a genderswap (Inkling), or part of a duo (Kazooie). Inkling Boy was featured a ton more than female Pokemon Trainer or female Robin or Male Wii Fit Trainer, even appearing in the World of Light opening while the rest of the genderswaps didn't. Echo Daisy is the only female human out of all of them.

We literally don't have a single fully unique female newcomer that actually occupies 8 costumes and fights on her own.

this so much this. laura croft would fix this. so would chun-li.
some people have stated they would like a nintendo based dlc fighter pack (becuase this one is all gonna be 3rd party) and i think think thats the only way we would see elma or edelgaurd get in.

 

[Flyboy]

this so much this. laura croft would fix this. so would chun-li.

When the "next character will be female" rumor was going around, I started putting together for myself a list of female characters and out of all of them that felt somewhat plausible the only one that wasn't super interesting in my eyes was Kasumi from Dead or Alive. Even then, a new series is cool in its own way.

As others have said it's not just "female character" but also "character that can appeal to a female audience" like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton. Either option would be nice and add variety, and I just want more demographic variety in the pass which....doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

I'll appreciate what I get but I'm a human with hopes and wants just like any other.