Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[HyruleHero]

So if Ryu Hayabusa is the final character what music would he come with? I don't really know Ninja Gaiden that well hopefully their are some tracks that measure up to how Iconic Banjo-Kazooie tracks and Dragon Quest tracks are.

Honestly if Ryu and Doom Slayer are the last characters I think that would be disappointing for me personally just due to lack of attachment. I have played all Doom games and because of that I feel that his Music is lacking for the final addition to the pass. Not really sure who to add for some good music tracks considering that the most likelies at the moment all have more 'cinematic' soundtracks (RE, Doom, NG, Overwatch)

 

[andree123]

Spoiler

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/501288125914677250/617359671853973514/image0.jpg
Vergeben knows that the next fighter is not Ryu Hayabusa, still hoping that Lloyd Irving is the next fighter.

 

[zferolie]

So if Ryu Hayabusa is the final character what music would he come with? I don't really know Ninja Gaiden that well hopefully their are some tracks that measure up to how Iconic Banjo-Kazooie tracks and Dragon Quest tracks are.

Honestly if Ryu and Doom Slayer are the last characters I think that would be disappointing for me personally just due to lack of attachment. I have played all Doom games and because of that I feel that his Music is lacking for the final addition to the pass. Not really sure who to add for some good music tracks considering that the most likelies at the moment all have more 'cinematic' soundtracks (RE, Doom, NG, Overwatch)

I dont know specific music names but the ninka giaden and DoA games have some great music. Im sure if he is in the music will be much better the stuff qe got for DQ.

As for if they are the last 2... honestly banjo is the only one i have am attachment to, so i guess i would be disappointed in the long run. But all the characters i am sure will be fun and they are all very varied, so its not a bad dlc list at all.

 

[Megadoomer]

So if Ryu Hayabusa is the final character what music would he come with? I don't really know Ninja Gaiden that well hopefully their are some tracks that measure up to how Iconic Banjo-Kazooie tracks and Dragon Quest tracks are.

Honestly if Ryu and Doom Slayer are the last characters I think that would be disappointing for me personally just due to lack of attachment. I have played all Doom games and because of that I feel that his Music is lacking for the final addition to the pass. Not really sure who to add for some good music tracks considering that the most likelies at the moment all have more 'cinematic' soundtracks (RE, Doom, NG, Overwatch)

Doom would have some pretty good music.

At Doom's Gate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSsfjHCFosw
Kitchen Ace (and Taking Names): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43aj3ag3H1c
I Sawed the Demons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlWDSvNSzlA
Facing the Spider: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPMVyp7LwIo
Running from Evil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qURei6svd90
Rip and Tear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZMg9ryeWOw
BFG Division: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNkQMtZAMAw

As for Ninja Gaiden, I'm not as familiar with that series, but from what I've read, the theme for level 4-2 in the original is seen as a good one. It was later remixed into Ryu Hayabusa's theme for Warriors Orochi 3. This list should help with finding more.

 

[ze9]

Classic Doom has plenty of good music.
I know this is a fan cover, but man, Sign of Evil is really something else. Imagine something like this.

 

[zferolie]

Spoiler

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/501288125914677250/617359671853973514/image0.jpg
Vergeben knows that the next fighter is not Ryu Hayabusa, still hoping that Lloyd Irving is the next fighter.

Well any actual quote of verge saying this, not just a he said she said thing?

 

[Flik]

So if Ryu Hayabusa is the final character what music would he come with? I don't really know Ninja Gaiden that well hopefully their are some tracks that measure up to how Iconic Banjo-Kazooie tracks and Dragon Quest tracks are.

Deep down I hope it's the way to get Hyrule and Fire Emblem Warriors music in Smash.

From Hyrule Warriors: Kakariko Vilage, Eclipse of the Sun or Eclipse of the Moon.
From Fire Emblem Warriors: With the Stars, Resolute Heart, Journey Through Time or This Precious World.

 

[blackghost]

Deep down I hope it's the way to get Hyrule and Fire Emblem Warriors music in Smash.

From Hyrule Warriors: Kakariko Vilage, Eclipse of the Sun or Eclipse of the Moon.
From Fire Emblem Warriors: With the Stars, Resolute Heart, Journey Through Time or This Precious World.

this is interesting. too often people argue and speculate over which characters alone have the history or status to get in a game like smash when often certain characters lacking one element can remove them from contention. people pushing doomguy, for instance, i genuinely wonder what music he'd bring and how does a game with long corridors translate into a stage? and more than likely a dlc stage serves as a general introduction to the game but the stage itself is small. clocktower, ff7stage, hero's stage all reflect this.

as for the female character discussion, i do think there will be at least one in the first pack i'd guess chun-li, shantae, or laura croft. Older female characters were a bug deal because they were not only female but in incredible games as well. to deny either part of that is to try to alter history. Wanting a female character or a representation of oneself is not antifeminism its human.

The LGBT community received a character in Bayonetta. There is nothing wrong in them being happy in receiving representation.

if i could pick the last two dlc characters i would be laura croft and sepiroth. the biggest videogame villain left and the only videogame character that has had multiple movies in multiple decades and continues to be popular.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Spoiler

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/501288125914677250/617359671853973514/image0.jpg
Vergeben knows that the next fighter is not Ryu Hayabusa, still hoping that Lloyd Irving is the next fighter.

So Hayabusa might not actually be a lock? I'm still a little weary due to that other guy's track record, but at least there's some hope for something else

Regarding representation, I definitely understand the frustration as a female player. Between being represented through only half of a character, seemingly having a female Joker alt scrapped, and not even considering female alts for Hero, it's hard not to feel slightly annoyed that they're not even trying to appeal to you in favor of two gritty M-rated male action heroes. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if the Fighter's Pass was all male if we got someone like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton that appeals to female players, but Hayabusa and Doomguy feel like the most male-oriented combination they could've gone with in an already male-dominated DLC pass. I get that gender shouldn't matter when choosing a character, but when iconic female characters like Lara Croft and Jill Valentine are being passed up in favor of more macho men, I can't help but feel like a huge part of the population is being overlooked despite what Nintendo said about wanting to appeal to wider demographics

 

[CapitaineCrash]

this is interesting. too often people argue and speculate over which characters alone have the history or status to get in a game like smash when often certain characters lacking one element can remove them from contention. people pushing doomguy, for instance, i genuinely wonder what music he'd bring and how does a game with long corridors translate into a stage? and more than likely a dlc stage serves as a general introduction to the game but the stage itself is small. clocktower, ff7stage, hero's stage all reflect this.

I'm not saying that Doomguy is a lock or anything, but really, music potential is probably the least of his problems and if you wonder what music Doom could bring, you clearly never played a Doom game. Just take a listen to At doom's gate, Running from evil, Kitchen ace and Hiding the secrets (these are personal favorites, but there's more than that). Not only Doom would bring excellent music, but also a music genre that we don't really have in Smash.

As for the stages, I don't see how exactly that's an issue. We got stage based from open world (breath of the wild), from semi open world (delfino plaza for example), racing game track (f-zero levels), 2d platformer level and so on. I don't see how a corridor FPS would cause problem. I think a good Doom stage would be the Tower of babel, but it could also be a more generic stage based on Hell.

 

[volbound1700]

I wouldn't even say it's testing the waters. I straight up think Banjo is an exception to Sakurai's usual process because of what Banjo historically is.



I think it's gonna happen because there aren't a lot of "great" options out there. That is what makes it surprising to begin with. This isn't so much as picking something to fulfill a quota or anything stupid. Sakurai can make a great character out of pretty much anything with the charm to make non-fans enjoy their inclusion.

There are still a TON of good options out there:

1. Ryu Hasabura
2. Rayman
3. Masterchief
4. Sora
5. Tails
6. Crash Bandicoot
7. Doomguy
8. Bomberman
9. Leon Kennedy

The problem is that most of these characters are not popular in "Japan". Which sucks as a criteria because it is keeping a ton of video game legends that are popular in 90% of the world out of Smash.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The LGBT community received a character in Bayonetta. There is nothing wrong in them being happy in receiving representation.

Corrin too.

 

[zferolie]

So Hayabusa might not actually be a lock? I'm still a little weary due to that other guy's track record, but at least there's some hope for something else

Regarding representation, I definitely understand the frustration as a female player. Between being represented through only half of a character, seemingly having a female Joker alt scrapped, and not even considering female alts for Hero, it's hard not to feel slightly annoyed that they're not even trying to appeal to you in favor of two gritty M-rated male action heroes. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if the Fighter's Pass was all male if we got someone like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton that appeals to female players, but Hayabusa and Doomguy feel like the most male-oriented combination they could've gone with in an already male-dominated DLC pass. I get that gender shouldn't matter when choosing a character, but when iconic female characters like Lara Croft and Jill Valentine are being passed up in favor of more macho men, I can't help but feel like a huge part of the population is being overlooked despite what Nintendo said about wanting to appeal to wider demographics

I myself am a male, but i always have felt more comfortable playing as females in video games. Thats just how i have always been. So seeing so little female characters being added, despite so many good ones that represent different parts of the gaming history, makes me a bit said. And the last 2 males being super hyper aggressive male sterotypes is sad. And i love doomgiy as a chatacter , dont get me wrong, but so far really banjo and kazooie really pull me for this pass. And Eight alt as dq8 was my favorite of the series

 

[PeridotGX]

Deep down I hope it's the way to get Hyrule and Fire Emblem Warriors music in Smash.

From Hyrule Warriors: Kakariko Vilage, Eclipse of the Sun or Eclipse of the Moon.
From Fire Emblem Warriors: With the Stars, Resolute Heart, Journey Through Time or This Precious World.

why not some Pokemon Conquest music too?


It's really, really good (all four words are different links)

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Oh wow, someone is finally leaking that Ryu Hayabusa is coming next? Hm, you could almost say that "Justice is Next", huh? Wonder who it was that said that.

 

[volbound1700]

I really wanted Joker and at the time I thought it was a longshot. Then it happened and I went bananas. I dont know if I could handle both Doom Slayer and Hayabusa

RIP Travis Touchdown though

Interestingly, I felt the same way about Joker. Nothing about the character is attractive to me. I feel embarrassed to play the character around my friend because he looks like an emo baby. I guess people's opinions are there own. I liked Hero's addition despite never playing Dragon Quest so it isn't always tied to, "I have played the games." I did NOT grow up playing Banjo, Rayman, or Crash but I want\wanted them because they fit well.

If I had my choice based on nostalgia, it would be DoomGuy or Tails. I started playing the original Dooms on PC when I was 10 and Sonic the Hedgehog was one of my favorite series as a kid along with Mario. (The Nintendo 1st Parties capture most of my nostalgia with Kirby, Mario, Legend of Zelda, and Donkey Kong series. Adding Megaman and Sonic completed it for me).

I would be fine with Ryu Hayabusa despite never playing the series. I also think he is the most likely because of the Japanese focus of the game. (I guess you can't blame Nintendo, they are a Japanese company and there most loyal following is in Japan).

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So Hayabusa might not actually be a lock? I'm still a little weary due to that other guy's track record, but at least there's some hope for something else

Regarding representation, I definitely understand the frustration as a female player. Between being represented through only half of a character, seemingly having a female Joker alt scrapped, and not even considering female alts for Hero, it's hard not to feel slightly annoyed that they're not even trying to appeal to you in favor of two gritty M-rated male action heroes. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if the Fighter's Pass was all male if we got someone like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton that appeals to female players, but Hayabusa and Doomguy feel like the most male-oriented combination they could've gone with in an already male-dominated DLC pass. I get that gender shouldn't matter when choosing a character, but when iconic female characters like Lara Croft and Jill Valentine are being passed up in favor of more macho men, I can't help but feel like a huge part of the population is being overlooked despite what Nintendo said about wanting to appeal to wider demographics

Also doesn't help that literally every female newcomer so far for Ultimate is either an echo (Daisy, Dark Samus), a semiclone (Isabelle), has a genderswap (Inkling), or part of a duo (Kazooie). Inkling Boy was featured a ton more than female Pokemon Trainer or female Robin or Male Wii Fit Trainer, even appearing in the World of Light opening while the rest of the genderswaps didn't. Echo Daisy is the only female human out of all of them.

We literally don't have a single fully unique female newcomer that actually occupies 8 costumes and fights on her own.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

There are still a TON of good options out there:

1. Ryu Hasabura
2. Rayman
3. Masterchief
4. Sora
5. Tails
6. Crash Bandicoot
7. Doomguy
8. Bomberman
9. Leon Kennedy

The problem is that most of these characters are not popular in "Japan". Which sucks as a criteria because it is keeping a ton of video game legends that are popular in 90% of the world out of Smash.

Only Rayman, Masterchief, and Doomguy are the unpopular ones really.
HALO and DOOM's names are kinda known.
I think Rayman is the weakest out of three. He is literal who more than you think.

 

[Ridrool64]

I think Ryu Hayabusa and the Doom Slayer, are likelier individually than on the same pass. Both make sense, but somehow make less sense together than individually.

That would be three characters from M Rated games known best for having violence in them. Not because it's too gruesome or gory, but it treads the exact same path three times. That's appealing to the exact same market thrice, with genre being the big dividing thing.

 

[RoccoSN1PER]

I hope Metal Sonic or Crash gets in

 

[yeet123]

The LGBT community received a character in Bayonetta. There is nothing wrong in them being happy in receiving representation.

Corrin too.

I'd just like to point out that Banjo and Kazooie save karaoke night at Jolly Roger's bar by saving his boyfriend who was eaten by a giant fish. This means Banjo's been an ally to the LGBTQ community since 2000.


https://lgbtqgamearchive.com/2015/11/09/jollys-bar/

 

[volbound1700]

Only Rayman, Masterchief, and Doomguy are the unpopular ones really.
HALO and DOOM's names are kinda known.
I think Rayman is the weakest out of three. He is literal who more than you think.

You are probably right. He is the mascot of Ubisoft and has a ton of games but he isn't as popular as some of them. Sora would be the best compromise and is probably the biggest character left on the roster.

I kind of want Doomguy/Masterchief because I know a lot of non-Smash fans that would be turned on by these characters. I have a close friend that played Smash and wasn't wild about it but thought it would be cool if either of those guys made it in. Those two characters have the greatest chance to open Smash to a new audience among anyone on the list. That said, I think characters like Bomberman and Sora are better fits.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'd just like to point out that Banjo and Kazooie save karaoke night at Jolly Roger's bar by saving his boyfriend who was eaten by a giant fish. This means Banjo's been an ally to the LGBTQ community since 2000.


https://lgbtqgamearchive.com/2015/11/09/jollys-bar/

If we're including allies then DK is definitely on that list.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If you think about it. Hayabusa easily fits the bird theory. You know that time of the raven a while back.

 

[yeet123]

If we're including allies then DK is definitely on that list.

lol gimme background on this

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

EDIT: GONNA PREFACE THIS WITH I AM NOT A LEAKER! THIS IS JUST COINCIDENCE!

If you're following me on Twitter you probably just saw this but, with this new leak, I want to say this. I may or may not have had the Fighter's Pass spoiled for me long ago.

So here's the story.

So, Banjo, Hayabusa, and The Doom Slayer have always been my Top 3 since... well before the pass. Joker and Hero weren't but Hero was on my radar because of leaks.

Anywho, I posted something about those 4 on my Twitter at one point and an individual, or group of individuals (couldn't really tell from their name), basically asked me "How did I know?"... so. I may or may not have gotten the pass spoiled for me long ago. That is IF Hayabusa really is next. If he's not then they really were bull ****ting.

Is it still exciting as hell? Absolutely, but IF; and it's a BIG IF, Hayabusa IS legitimately next like I said long ago? I think Doom Slayer is our Game Awards announcement. I didn't believe that person was legit, and I honestly still don't because it sounds too good to be true for me, but if they were? Hoo boy.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Doom being revealed also fits at the right time. DLC fighter 5 should be revealed in November around the time of Doom Eternal's release or at least close to it like at the VGA.

I'd be satisfied to say the least for Doomabusa were indeed the last two. They're basically until further notice DLC's Kencineroar.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

lol gimme background on this

Based on a meme.

 

[zferolie]

Also doesn't help that literally every female newcomer so far for Ultimate is either an echo (Daisy, Dark Samus), a semiclone (Isabelle), has a genderswap (Inkling), or part of a duo (Kazooie). Inkling Boy was featured a ton more than female Pokemon Trainer or female Robin or Male Wii Fit Trainer, even appearing in World of Light. Echo Daisy is the only female human out of all of them.

We literally don't have a single fully unique female newcomer that actually occupies 8 costumes and fights on her own.

Hmm, didnt think about that. Yeah not many brand new girls this game sadly.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that we are getting both Ryu Hayabusa and Doom Slayer.

 

[Opossum]

Meanwhile I'm just here hoping for Edelgard lol.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Look at how good these are.

 

[RileyXY1]

Even if Ryu Hayabusa is the next character, that does not guarantee that the final character is Doom Slayer, and vice versa.

 

[zferolie]

Even if Ryu Hayabusa is the next character, that does not guarantee that the final character is Doom Slayer, and vice versa.

Very true. I honestly think doomslayer is too violent, and nerfing his violence to fit into smash would lose too mich of his identity.

 

[Nquoid]

Corrin too.

Ike as well if you believe the popular head canon

Based on a meme.

I wouldn't call it a meme. Just that a popular YouTuber raised a lot of money for a charity supporting Trans people to spite a comedy writer by playing DK64 and it kind of exploded from there. Although yes, it has certainly become memetic since (also watch HBomberguys stuff hes good)

 

[SKX31]

So Hayabusa might not actually be a lock? I'm still a little weary due to that other guy's track record, but at least there's some hope for something else

Regarding representation, I definitely understand the frustration as a female player. Between being represented through only half of a character, seemingly having a female Joker alt scrapped, and not even considering female alts for Hero, it's hard not to feel slightly annoyed that they're not even trying to appeal to you in favor of two gritty M-rated male action heroes. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if the Fighter's Pass was all male if we got someone like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton that appeals to female players, but Hayabusa and Doomguy feel like the most male-oriented combination they could've gone with in an already male-dominated DLC pass. I get that gender shouldn't matter when choosing a character, but when iconic female characters like Lara Croft and Jill Valentine are being passed up in favor of more macho men, I can't help but feel like a huge part of the population is being overlooked despite what Nintendo said about wanting to appeal to wider demographics

I do think there's one aspect that's worth mentioning here. One sec, I'm gonna list 5 video game characters who don't come up (often) around here:

* Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft)
* Amaterasu (Okami)
* Ahri (League of Legends)
* Lina, the Slayer* (Dota 2)
* Sash Lilac (Freedom Planet)

My point with this seemingly random list is: Female video game characters, just like male ones, come in all different shapes, sizes and personalities. It feels even more like a missed opportunity knowing that there's a whole lot to choose from. Not just characters like Lara or Jill.

*(Yea, Dota's Lina inherits her spells from the (Light Novel) Slayers' Lina Inverse. Ahri and Amaterasu both have very strong elements from Japanese mythology - Ahri's a half-kitsune. Lilac and Kerrigan as characters are both mixtures too, but from very different circumstances. )

 

[zferolie]

I do think there's one aspect that's worth mentioning here. One sec, I'm gonna list 5 video game characters who don't come up (often) around here:

* Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft)
* Amaterasu (Okami)
* Ahri (League of Legends)
* Lina, the Slayer* (Dota 2)
* Sash Lilac (Freedom Planet)

My point with this seemingly random list is: Female video game characters, just like male ones, come in all different shapes, sizes and personalities. It feels even more like a missed opportunity knowing that there's a whole lot to choose from. Not just characters like Lara or Jill.

*(Yea, Dota's Lina inherits her spells from the (Light Novel) Slayers' Lina Inverse. Ahri and Amaterasu both have very strong elements from Japanese mythology - Ahri's a half-kitsune. Lilac and Kerrigan as characters are both mixtures too, but from very different circumstances. )

Exactly. Man freedom planet is such a good game. Just never considered her for smash though, since i am already pushing for Shantae, Reimu, and Hornet, as female indie reps

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also doesn't help that literally every female newcomer so far for Ultimate is either an echo (Daisy, Dark Samus), a semiclone (Isabelle), has a genderswap (Inkling), or part of a duo (Kazooie). Inkling Boy was featured a ton more than female Pokemon Trainer or female Robin or Male Wii Fit Trainer, even appearing in the World of Light opening while they didn't. Echo Daisy is the only female human out of all of them.

We literally don't have a single fully unique female newcomer that actually occupies 8 costumes and fights on her own.

This is because women in gaming tend to be either supporting characters (and thus the male protagonists get the first shot) or are avatars (in which case it would be silly not to include the male variant as well). I think the Inkling Boy appears in the World of Light opening cutscene while the other opposite sex costumes don't because the Inkling Boy and Inkling Girl are usually seen together in promotional material and co-exist in-universe, while female Robin, female Corrin, and Male Wii Fit Trainer seem to exist in alternate universes in which the character was the other sex.

Also Incineroar could be female. It's masculine as heck but it doesn't have any gender differences so there's still a 12.5% chance that this is the case. lol

Actually, I think all playable Pokémon (except Lucario who is definitely male and Mewtwo who is genderless) could be male or female if you wanted them to be. Though since most of them are starter Pokémon it wouldn't surprise me if they were all revealed to be male.

 

[RileyXY1]

This is because women in gaming tend to be either supporting characters (and thus the male protagonists get the first shot) or are avatars (in which case it would be silly not to include the male variant as well). I think the Inkling Boy appears in the World of Light opening cutscene while the other opposite sex costumes don't because the Inkling Boy and Inkling Girl are usually seen together in promotional material and co-exist in-universe, while female Robin, female Corrin, and Male Wii Fit Trainer seem to exist in alternate universes in which the character was the other sex.

Also Incineroar could be female. It's masculine as heck but it doesn't have any gender differences so there's still a 12.5% chance that this is the case. lol

Actually, I think all playable Pokémon (except Lucario who is definitely male and Mewtwo who is genderless) could be male or female if you wanted them to be. Though since most of them are starter Pokémon it wouldn't surprise me if they were all revealed to be male.

However, there's plenty of possible choices when it comes to female characters.

 

[Opossum]

This is because women in gaming tend to be either supporting characters (and thus the male protagonists get the first shot) or are avatars (in which case it would be silly not to include the male variant as well). I think the Inkling Boy appears in the World of Light opening cutscene while the other opposite sex costumes don't because the Inkling Boy and Inkling Girl are usually seen together in promotional material and co-exist in-universe, while female Robin, female Corrin, and Male Wii Fit Trainer seem to exist in alternate universes in which the character was the other sex.

Also Incineroar could be female. It's masculine as heck but it doesn't have any gender differences so there's still a 12.5% chance that this is the case. lol

Actually, I think all playable Pokémon (except Lucario who is definitely male and Mewtwo who is genderless) could be male or female if you wanted them to be. Though since most of them are starter Pokémon it wouldn't surprise me if they were all revealed to be male.

Spikey-Eared Pichu is definitely female though. IIRC that one was always female during the event.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

However, there's plenty of possible choices when it comes to female characters.

I'm not denying this. It's just my explanation as to why most female characters aren't as common or are tied to male avatars.

Spikey-Eared Pichu is definitely female though. IIRC that one was always female during the event.

So are Pikachu Libre and the other heart tailed Pikachus. I didn't include them in my exceptions because Pikachu allows you to play as a male or female, while Pichu (except for the Spikey-Eared one) could be either.