Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SharkLord]

I think you are overlooking Blazblue here.
I think the causal audience are more familiar with Blazblue than with Guilty Gear.
The former alongside Street Fighter 4 revived interest in 2-D fighting games during the 7th generation (PS3 and 360).

I've heard a bit about BlazBlue, though so far Guilty Gear appears to me more. I'll need a full comparison of the two's achievements to make a Smash prediction, though.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

BlazBlue ain't gonna come before Guilty Gear just saying.

 

[SKX31]

Yeah Falcom fits the same "dark horse" category that SNK filled in the previous fighters pass. It has important gaming history, the company is still alive making games, there has been Switch support from the company, and the company itself owns all it's soundtrack so getting the music will be super easy lol. The only downside is that just like SNK, Falcom isn't that well known to those who aren't deep into RPGs. Since there are some suites at Nintendo who decided to add Terry in Smash part of me wonders if they'll do the same for Falcom.

It's worth noting that said suites are generally at around Sakurai's age or older (Sakurai's a bit older than President Furukawa, for example), so at least several om them would likely know what Falcom is.

It really seems like Bandai Namco is either being modest or simply doesn’t care to get another character, which is crazy considering how so many people can look at their roster and see the potential.

It might be the sweet deal of getting a cut of 4's / Ultimate's sales + DLC etc... perhaps? Smash 4 + Ultimate's sold a combined (roughly) 35 million copies from 2014-today, with the three games essentially averaging (above soon, honestly, Ultimate's not going to stop selling) Tekken 7's lifetime sales per year. Even discounting Ultimate's 20 million, Smash 4 combined for almost 15 million over the course of 4 years.

We won't know if that's one reason why Bamco's not gotten an additional character (so far), but I can certainly imagine that that could've lessened the need to get another character in ASAP.

 

[Louie G.]

Dark Souls in particular I think gets passed over for two reasons. Its history is mainly on Playstation, with only the first game coming to Switch with the rerelease. Not necessarily the biggest deal, but it's a thing to think about. The other thing is that Dark Souls combat is slow and grounded (in the gravitational sense, not that it's super realistic all the time). In a game like Ultimate, where everything is fast and jumping is plentiful, it could be hard to make Dark Souls feel both interesting and faithful. I think it can be done, but it is conceptually puzzling. Personally, I'd like to see the character buckle down on defensive techniques. Give them Link's shield mechanic, but mapped to a button which allows them to walk around while still blocking certain things. Maybe they would get a unique riposte attack after a parry.

I agree that Dark Souls combat in Smash is a little tricky to envision - mostly because in addition to being accurate, it still needs to be fun. More emphasis on defense is a great idea, perhaps at the expense of needing to commit a lot more to your attacks. I think Sakurai could totally make it work - after the sheer creativity seen in Steve's execution I don't doubt that Sakurai can make any character fun.

With Arcsys, Guilty Gear makes sense on a company representation level (it's basically their flagship series), but one thing to think about is that Blazblue might be more known outside the fighting game sphere, especially after BBTag.

I think you are overlooking Blazblue here.
I think the causal audience are more familiar with Blazblue than with Guilty Gear.
The former alongside Street Fighter 4 revived interest in 2-D fighting games during the 7th generation (PS3 and 360).

Fair enough! I personally have trouble imagining Ragna getting in over Sol simply because Guilty Gear is like the flagship fighting game of ArcSys (like you said), but Blazblue has definitely seen notable success recently.

 

[SharkLord]

Fair enough! I personally have trouble imagining Ragna getting in over Sol simply because Guilty Gear is like the flagship fighting game of ArcSys (like you said), but Blazblue has definitely seen notable success recently.

From what I can gather, the relationship between the two is somewhat similar to Fatal Fury and King of Fighters, except the KoF equivalent is finished and Fatal Fury is back in action. Don't think I know enough to have any authority in the matter, though.

 

[AreJay25]

IIRC Arc Sys actually put out a tweet saying to support Sol for the Smash Ballot.

So if that's any indication then he'd likely be their first choice.

 

[Louie G.]

IIRC Arc Sys actually put out a tweet saying to support Sol for the Smash Ballot.

So if that's any indication then he'd likely be their first choice.

Huh, that's cool to hear.

To play devil's advocate though, it's ultimately Nintendo's choice. If they asked for Ragna instead, or went for Billy & Jimmy, I'm certain that ArcSys would want to play ball no matter what. I think a lot of people imagine this scenario where Nintendo asks the company themselves who they want in the game, and while I don't think it's impossible that certain characters were decided this way I think it's safer to assume Nintendo has a specific character in mind first.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I've heard a bit about BlazBlue, though so far Guilty Gear appears to me more. I'll need a full comparison of the two's achievements to make a Smash prediction, though.

It's interesting, because Guilty Gear is more ambitious on a technical level and I think it's older. It also gets more love among the FGC. However, I believe it consistently sells worse and is less popular in Japan. Don't quote me on that, though. That's just the impression I've gotten.

My general impression is that Guilty Gear is the anime fighting game for people who don't really like anime. Kind of like how Cowboy Bebop appeals to a lot of people who generally dislike anime despite being one. Blazblue just doesn't have anything to grab that crowd. It is the definition of an anime air-dasher, and recycles assets between editions.

Mechanically, I've seen people who prefer Blazblue over Guilty Gear and vice versa. Blazblue tends to more unique mechanics from character to character, so in some ways it feels like a different game depending on who you pick, while Guilty Gear's core mechanics are more universally complex, but are more consistent between characters (not completely consistent, but more so).

In Smash, I don't know what we'd get. I'm not sold on either being super likely right now, and I think we'd get a different fighting game rep before either of them. Probably Soul Caliber or maybe Tekken if we're talking Smash 6. Between Ragna and Sol, Sol feels like a higher production pick, if that makes sense. He would have more weight to his inclusion. I just can't entirely write off Sol when Blazblue seems to do fairly well in spite of itself.

 

[P.Kat]

Ah, overlooked or unexpected is the word I was probably trying to look for.

In that case, what overlooked or unexpected character do you guys think could make it in?

Amaterasu
Elma
2B
Saber
Sakura Shinguji/Sakura Amamiya
Sony character (Kat (Gravity Rush))
Shantae (sometimes I feel like she's overlooked)
Ragn-

BlazBlue ain't gonna come before Guilty Gear just saying.

Dang it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

From what I can gather, the relationship between the two is somewhat similar to Fatal Fury and King of Fighters, except the KoF equivalent is finished and Fatal Fury is back in action. Don't think I know enough to have any authority in the matter, though.

I thought it was the reverse: Fatal Fury is no longer an ongoing series, and King of Fighters carries the torch.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Amaterasu
Elma
2B
Saber
Sakura Shinguji/Sakura Amamiya
Sony character (Kat (Gravity Rush))
Shantae (sometimes I feel like she's overlooked)
Ragn-

I love this list with the addition of Sol and Baiken

 

[CureParfait]

BlazBlue ain't gonna come before Guilty Gear just saying.

I honestly think it could go either way

 

[PeridotGX]

What if we got a new Pokemon, but instead of it being a Gen 8 Pokemon it was was Regigigas, who is technically a promotional pick because the Regis are a big deal again?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My general impression is that Guilty Gear is the anime fighting game for people who don't really like anime. Kind of like how Cowboy Bebop appeals to a lot of people who generally dislike anime despite being one. Blazblue just doesn't have anything to grab that crowd. It is the definition of an anime air-dasher, and recycles assets between editions.

Oh man does it reuse assets. Some of the sprites in BlazBlue: Cross Tag Battle give me outdated Morrigain sprite vibes.

 

[SharkLord]

I thought it was the reverse: Fatal Fury is no longer an ongoing series, and King of Fighters carries the torch.

I mean, that was the situation a short while back. It's just that recently the situations have reversed (Though it's less BlazBlue being absorbed into another series so much as it's storyline has just concluded).

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Aside from what was already mentionned by other users, I think Donchan from Taiko no Tatsujin is a real possibility. The franchise have a game on the switch which sold a solid 1 million copies and have a upcoming release this year. The franchise have in total 10 million console sales. That is a lot for a franchise that is mainly know in Japan and it's also very popular in arcade. Donchan is already used to crossover, being playable in the Mario kart arcade. It also did many crossover with other franchise such as Monster hunter, YS and Yokai watch. It's probably less popular than Tales of (and I'm saying "probably" because it's hard to gather how popular exactly it is in the Arcade in Japan), but I still think it has a decent shot. Also it seems that Sakurai have now more time to do fun character gimmick, so maybe now would be the time to try a Rhythm focused character.

don-chan in smash would be so damn fun

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Oh man does it reuse assets. Some of the sprites in BlazBlue: Cross Tag Battle give me outdated Morrigain sprite vibes.

I think the sprites are more consistent outside of BBTag context, but it's been a while since I've played. I have the version before Central Fiction, but it doesn't work on touchscreen laptops, so I haven't played it in a couple years.

It doesn't help that BBTag is doing the same sprite stuff that MvC did. Some are brand new and others are borrowed from games that are 10 years old.

Fun fact: Blazblue sprites were created by using 3D models as a reference so that posing and proportions would be consistent. That technique was shared by Guilty Gear before it went 3D, and that process evolved into what it has become today.

 

[PeridotGX]

****. i got myself immensely hyped for regigigas. a character that will never happen.

 

[chocolatejr9]

****. i got myself immensely hyped for regigigas. a character that will never happen.

First time?

 

[Twin Shot]

Maybe we’ll have to just make a custom stage where you fight on top of Regigigas...?

have at you!

 

[Koopaul]

I think you are overlooking Blazblue here.
I think the causal audience are more familiar with Blazblue than with Guilty Gear.
The former alongside Street Fighter 4 revived interest in 2-D fighting games during the 7th generation (PS3 and 360).

I'm no fighting game expert but I've heard far more about Guilty Gear than Blazblue. In fact, the only time I hear Balzblue being mentioned is in relationship to Guilty Gear. But maybe my outlook has been skewed? Perhaps the online communities I frequent are just more prone to talking about Guilty Gear.

 

[KillerCage]

I'm no fighting game expert but I've heard far more about Guilty Gear than Blazblue. In fact, the only time I hear Balzblue being mentioned is in relationship to Guilty Gear. But maybe my outlook has been skewed? Perhaps the online communities I frequent are just more prone to talking about Guilty Gear.

I learned of Blazblue's existence long before I heard of Guilty Gear thanks to the Video Game Countdown Community and Death Battle (Season 1).

 

[GoodGrief741]

Meanwhile, all of the people who thought that Steve would be too much of a childish and janky fit for Smash are quietly whistling to themselves right now.

I could stop whistling and speak my mind, but I assume that most people don't want to see that.

Don't assume people are hypocrites just because they aren't constantly repeating the same thing.

 

[PeridotGX]

Holy ****. If they make Diamond/Pearl remakes, and they want a promotional rep, Regigigas is actually a very logical pick.

• Also a SWSH rep, via the large role the Regis play in the DLC
• Also kinda a Hoenn rep, because of the first three Regis.
• Of the three starters: one is in Pokken (I think they're trying to minimise the overlap between the two games) and one wouldn't be feasible in the slightest, leaving only Infernape.
• The rare Legendary that's not fighting for importance over another (Zamazenta fans would be pissed if they added Zacian, Dialga fans with Palkia, etc).
• We don't have a lot of Legendary music (Including the Regi theme), Regigigas could fix that.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'm no fighting game expert but I've heard far more about Guilty Gear than Blazblue. In fact, the only time I hear Balzblue being mentioned is in relationship to Guilty Gear. But maybe my outlook has been skewed? Perhaps the online communities I frequent are just more prone to talking about Guilty Gear.

I think it might be a regional thing. Guilty Gear is popular in the West, Blazblue is popular in Japan. Though I don't have a source on that, so don't quote me.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What if we got a new Pokemon, but instead of it being a Gen 8 Pokemon it was was Regigigas, who is technically a promotional pick because the Regis are a big deal again?

Slow Start would be the most ridiculous gimmick and I would welcome it.

 

[PeridotGX]

Slow Start would be the most ridiculous gimmick and I would welcome it.

regigigas

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Slow Start would be the most ridiculous gimmick and I would welcome it.

You being so slow that you basically can't play the game until a set amount of time has passed sounds pretty terrible to be honest.

 

[Perkilator]

You being so slow that you basically can't play the game until a set amount of time has passed sounds pretty terrible to be honest.

Then…maybe make Regigigas slow for a little bit then bring him up to normal speed after a little bit?

 

[PeridotGX]

You being so slow that you basically can't play the game until a set amount of time has passed sounds pretty terrible to be honest.

I wouldn't make it an on-off switch like it is in Pokemon. He starts out slower then Byleth, about 15 seconds into the match he gets a bit faster, 30 seconds is a bit faster, 45 is a tad above average, and at 60 he enters the top 10 in the game. Instead of going back to zero when he loses a stock, he just goes down two stages. He would also have Tough Guy.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You being so slow that you basically can't play the game until a set amount of time has passed sounds pretty terrible to be honest.

Obviously it would be toned a bit to make him playable, but the core concept of becoming faster and stronger as you keep your stock would remain.

And with how heavy he would most likely be, it would synegize well with that gimmick.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wouldn't make it an on-off switch like it is in Pokemon. He starts out slower then Byleth, about 15 seconds into the match he gets a bit faster, 30 seconds is a bit faster, 45 is a tad above average, and at 60 he enters the top 10 in the game. Instead of going back to zero when he loses a stock, he just goes down two stages. He would also have Tough Guy.

Obviously it would be toned a bit to make him playable, but the core concept of becoming faster and stronger as you keep your stock would remain.

And with how heavy he would most likely be, it would synegize well with that gimmick.

This sounds a little better, but it sounds like it'd be a pretty bad design. With it's large limbs, and emphasis on strength in the lore, I can't imagine its fighting style would be anything other than Ganondorf's unga-bunga slow, but powerful stuff. Combine that with Incineroar tier speed and you have a fighter who is so bad I can't imagine it getting much of anything done; You wouldn't be fighting you're opponent, you'd be surviving them (which I suppose is kinda the point).

25-50% power levels would be balanced to be underpowered-normally powered for that archetype, but the archetype in general is bad, so he'd still be a bad character. So you'd really only get feel that power boost when you're at full power, which is when you're almost dead, which means Regigigas would be stuck at low powers in most of its matches.

Unless...maybe Slow Start affected damage as well? Then its frame data could be reasonable on the middle end of the scale and just remain constant or something, which would mean the Pokémon would be better for longer, and it would be that much stronger at full power.

 

[SNEKeater]

Now, I’m not going to say anybody should just “be fine with what they have”. That’s just rude. For context, however, we’ve got folks who are eatin good...dozens of quality Nintendo characters to choose from, stages, and music. Now, the highest requested Nintendo characters are lower in importance either as individuals or within the series they are in. While they are great characters, we’re down to picks like Dixie Kong, Waluigi, or Bandanna Waddle Dee. Dixie has been a protagonist in 2 games, one several years older than the other, while the other two are consistently supporting characters in series that have plenty of content in Smash already. You have characters such as these lines up with characters outside of Nintendo who are the lead of their respective games or series.

I completely agree.
To me, those characters feel more like base roster additions rather than DLC fighters. Not trying to say they're not valuable enough to be sold separately, just in case.

And to some extent I'd love to be proven wrong, to clarify. For example, Dixie Kong is probably my fave DK character and DKC2 and Tropical Freeze being my fave DK games is in part to her being playable in both games. I always liked her as a playable character more than DK or Diddy.

Those aren't left-field at all.

I don't know, I'd argue that some of those names are indeed left-field characters. Names such as Sol Badguy or even Layton are mostly discussed in hardcore Smash communities. You're not gonna see those names popping out frequently in casual Smash circles.
Those characters might not surprise us enough to consider them left field picks, but they would be incredibly surprising for a lot people. Hell, I'd argue they would still be very left-field choices to us. It's just that now we're more aware of the fact that Nintendo could go with ""low"" profile franchises when it comes to third parties, after what happened with the first Fighter Pass.

That doesn't mean names like Sol, Layton and company are suddenly more likely. They're not. If they get in we would still be quite surprised.

Does Phoenix really constitutes as an "honorary Nintendo character"?

Both Banjo and Bayo have games that were published by Nintendo worldwide, that's kinda what makes them such. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Nintendo has ever had any stake in any Ace Attorney game.

I don't know if this is the case for the other languages the original AA trilogy had, but the spanish localization of the first three games was made by Nintendo IIRC.
That's why the HD re-release doesn't have spanish localization. Capcom added multiple languages as free updates after the release of the HD trilogy, but the game is still not available in spanish, which is strange because the original games had spanish subs on the DS. Keep in mind that the HD trilogy is not only on 3DS/Switch but also Steam or PS4 so if some of the translations were paid/made by Nintendo Capcom wouldn't be able to use them. At that point I guess Capcom didn't wanted to make a new spanish localization, probably because they consider the series isn't popular enough in spanish speaking regions (the franchise stopped getting spanish translations after Apollo Justice).

Still feel Dante's looked at due to Bayonetta being in the game, not to mention those tweets a few years back which was likely a coincidence.

Also just because a game gets ported to Switch doesn't automatically means they're instantly in.

By no means I'm not saying he's won't get in because he could still get in, but he's not as likely as people makes it out to be.

I mean I can understand your point about the tweets and the DMC ports. But I literally haven't saw anyone saying Dante is likely because Bayonetta is in the game. That's plain nonsense and doesn't make sense as an argument for Dante in Smash.

A completely different thing is saying "having Dante vs Bayonetta would be a dream match up!" or something like that, which is something people does say.

From what I can gather, the relationship between the two is somewhat similar to Fatal Fury and King of Fighters, except the KoF equivalent is finished and Fatal Fury is back in action. Don't think I know enough to have any authority in the matter, though.

Personally I don't see the similarities. I'm not into Blazblue so I might be wrong but Blazblue and Guilty Gear aren't connected in any way beyond being owned and made by the same developer. That, and being fighting games, I guess.
In fact some people have asked Arc Sys for years for a crossover between the two series, and IIRC they said that won't happen after the stories of both franchises are finished.

I think it might be a regional thing. Guilty Gear is popular in the West, Blazblue is popular in Japan. Though I don't have a source on that, so don't quote me.

It's hard to prove it without numbers and all, but as far as I saw, I'd say this is pretty accurate. Guilty Gear seems to have more appeal among the Western audience, and I kinda agree with ALongWistfulSquiggle example. GG feels like it is able to reach better to people who isn't really into anime. I guess it's because of the series aesthetic/music?
In the other hand I'm pretty much convinced Blazblue is more popular in Japan. Guilty Gear has still a sizable following and popularity over there, tho.

Bias aside, I think that if we get an ArcSys rep Sakurai would go for Guilty Gear and Sol. It has more history and seems to be the closest thing they have as a mascot or flagship series. Also I feel it is slightly more recognizable for people who isn't into fighting games, but maybe it's just me. Anyway I don't think Ragna should be discarded that easily. I mean the arguments I just mentioned sound very strong, but you could have said something similar for Shin Megami Tensei and Persona and well, we know how that ended.

 

[PeridotGX]

The Regigigas support thread exists! Join it if you support Regigigas. If you don't...

I suggest you reconsider within the next 5 turns.

A Legend Reawakened: Regigigas for Smash Ultimate!

Who is Regigigas? Regigigas is a fourth generation Pokemon, making it's first appearance in Diamond and Pearl. Despite this, it's impact can be traced one generation prior: It created Regirock, Regice, and Registeel of the Hoenn region (as well as Regieleki and Regidrago of Galar). This...

smashboards.com

 

[KillerCage]

Personally I don't see the similarities. I'm not into Blazblue so I might be wrong but Blazblue and Guilty Gear aren't connected in any way beyond being owned and made by the same developer. That, and being fighting games, I guess.
In fact some people have asked Arc Sys for years for a crossover between the two series, and IIRC they said that won't happen after the stories of both franchises were finished.

From what I heard, Blazblue was created after Arc Sys lost the rights to Guilty Gear (to SEGA I think).
It was only in the past few years Arc got GG back.
In that time, Blazblue found a foothold commercially in the East and West.

 

[TwiceEXE]

It's a rough life being a GG/BB fan but not caring about Sol/Ragna at all. There are so many more interesting characters IMO. Pick anyone that isn't Sol/Ragna/Ky/Jin and I would pop off.

It's one of the few times I would like to see the main character precedent broken.

 

[KillerCage]

It's a rough life being a GG/BB fan but not caring about Sol/Ragna at all. There are so many more interesting characters IMO. Pick anyone that isn't Sol/Ragna/Ky/Jin and I would pop off.

It's one of the few times I would like to see the main character precedent broken.

Like this handsome devil?

 

[Goombaic]

It's a rough life being a GG/BB fan but not caring about Sol/Ragna at all. There are so many more interesting characters IMO. Pick anyone that isn't Sol/Ragna/Ky/Jin and I would pop off.

It's one of the few times I would like to see the main character precedent broken.

(Enter the doctor)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's a rough life being a GG/BB fan but not caring about Sol/Ragna at all. There are so many more interesting characters IMO. Pick anyone that isn't Sol/Ragna/Ky/Jin and I would pop off.

It's one of the few times I would like to see the main character precedent broken.

This is why I hope 3rd party franchises will be getting more characters in future titles. There are so many cool ideas that get missed because you have to add the most important ones.

 

[Ridrool64]

It's a rough life being a GG/BB fan but not caring about Sol/Ragna at all. There are so many more interesting characters IMO. Pick anyone that isn't Sol/Ragna/Ky/Jin and I would pop off.

It's one of the few times I would like to see the main character precedent broken.

Me but with Chrono Trigger. Crono couldn't be more boring compared to his party members IMO. I mean if he gets in I won't raise a fuss, but I just prefer... every other playable character in his game to him.