Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PK-remling Fire]

Are there any characters you guys don't necessarily want, but think they'd be a lot of fun to play as if they got in?

I have no real attachment to 2b, Dante, Pheonix Wright, or Hayabusa, but they would most likely be fun additions if they were added.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m like 99% sure Geno is coming as a character. He’s going to be quite the odd one too because he’s from a spin-off from 25ish years ago that really hasn’t made any major appearances since, is the only 3rd party character from a 1st party franchise, and will only have popularity to explain his inclusion. It’s just crazy to think about honestly.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I’m like 99% sure Geno is coming as a character. He’s going to be quite the odd one too because he’s from a spin-off from 25ish years ago that really hasn’t made any major appearances since, is the only 3rd party character from a 1st party franchise, and will only have popularity to explain his inclusion. It’s just crazy to think about honestly.

I honestly doesnt matter to me if anyone wants him, as long peeps don't jump on the "Its a slap in the face"train if it doesn't happen

 

[spicynun]

Are there any characters you guys don't necessarily want, but think they'd be a lot of fun to play as if they got in?

Dante. I've only played DMC 1 though so I'm sure my opinion about wanting him will change once I get to DMC 3 and 5. He has a lot of potential for an interesting moveset though.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I honestly doesnt matter to me if anyone wants him, as long peeps don't jump on the "Its a slap in the face"train if it doesn't happen

I’m like 99% sure Geno is coming as a character. He’s going to be quite the odd one too because he’s from a spin-off from 25ish years ago that really hasn’t made any major appearances since, is the only 3rd party character from a 1st party franchise, and will only have popularity to explain his inclusion. It’s just crazy to think about honestly.

Geno is gonna be a Deluxe Mii. He won't be our Mario Character if we get one. That title goes to King Boo EASY!

 

[Arcane Jill]

I pretty much have accepted at this point that Geno's Sm4sh Mii costume will be returning with some tweaks. I would love to be wrong, but I just don't see him coming as a fighter.

Are there any characters you guys don't necessarily want, but think they'd be a lot of fun to play as if they got in?

Never been too big on Lara Croft or Chun-Li, but I feel they could have a pretty cool moveset. Would rather have Dan or Akuma, but I get that she would likely take priority.

 

[Deleted member]

He won't be our Mario Character if we get one. That title goes to King Boo EASY!

AHEM!

 

[Guynamednelson]

Geno is gonna be a Deluxe Mii. He won't be our Mario Character if we get one. That title goes to King Boo EASY!

I already told you Nintendo already promoted LM3 using Smash.

 

[JOJONumber691]

AHEM!

Don't do that. Don't give me hope.

 

[Megadoomer]

Question: if Vol. 2 had 10 fighters instead of 6 (2 Echoes can come with any one of these), which ones would you pick? Only rule is that you have to include the officially revealed fighters as well. Here are mine:

• 76: Min Min
• 76ε: Ninjara
• 77: Sora
• 78: Steve
• 79: Euden
• 80: Crash Bandicoot
• 81: Sakura Shinguji
• 81ε: Sakura Amamiya
• 82: Bandana Dee
• 83: Scorbunny
• 84: Monster Hunter
• 85: Crazy Dave

Honorable mentions: King Boo, Frogger, Jill Valentine

I don't know if we have to include echoes, but if they're optional...

1. Min Min
2. Steve/Alex
3. Geno
4. Dante
5. Doomguy
6. Bandanna Waddle Dee
7. Impa
8. Elma
9. Ryu Hayabusa
10. Crash Bandicoot

(I had a hard enough time narrowing it down to eight without echoes)

Geno, Dante, and Doomguy are my most wanted characters, so if I had the chance, of course I'd include them.

I feel like Kirby, Xenoblade, and Zelda are the main Nintendo series that could use expansion at this point. Zelda hasn't had a new unique character in Smash in almost twenty years, which seems insane for one of Nintendo's flagship franchises.

Xenoblade has grown quite a lot since Smash 4 with two new games, a DLC that's basically a third new game by my understanding, and a full remake of the original, so I'm surprised that it hasn't gotten a second character yet. Elma instead of Rex is a personal preference - from what I've played of Xenoblade 2, Rex doesn't interest me (he feels bland and uninteresting so far), and he comes across as a harem protagonist where at least three women fall madly in love with him for no discernible reason. Plus, I'd be interested to see how Elma's skills would translate into Smash - I can't say the same for Rex, since from what I've seen, a lot of his abilities would be similar to Shulk's but on fire and with Pyra or Mythra occasionally assisting. (then again, I haven't encountered Mythra yet in my playthrough)

As for Kirby, it would be nice to have a playable character who was important outside of Sakurai's games - outside of spirits and maybe the occasional music track, it seems like the vast majority of Kirby content in Smash is from the four games that Sakurai directed (Dream Land, Adventure, Super Star, Air Ride) and their remakes.

I'd honestly be surprised if Ryu Hayabusa didn't make it in, all things considered.

As for the last spot, I had a tough time picking between Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, or a Tekken character (Jin?). I'm not super familiar with Tekken, but I wanted to see Heihachi in Smash since it's so rare to have a villain represent a third party franchise, and even though he has the devil transformation, I don't find Jin to be as interesting by comparison. (Kazuya could work, I suppose, but out of the three, he seems the least important, though I could be wrong about that) Assuming that the Mii costume rules Heihachi out, I think I'd go with one of the other two rather than trying to force a different Tekken character into this list.

Between Rayman and Crash, it could go either way, but I feel like Crash would be the bigger deal and appeal to a larger amount of people, even if I feel like Rayman would be the easier fit of the two. (Rayman Origins/Legends basically gives him an entire moveset on their own, and that's not even counting the 3D games) Plus, the idea of us officially getting Mario vs. Sonic vs. Crash is too good for me to pass up.

I tried to make it a mix between characters that I wanted and characters who seemed like they should be in by this point.

 

[Faso115]

Can that Geno skin come back already so we stop talking about Megapinnochio?

 

[ZoroCarlos]

If Geno is getting Mii'd then they'll likely make him a different costume that's a brand new model with a head replacement and all that like Sans and Cuphead. I don't think they'd use the same Smash 4 costume with just minor alterations. Best you can do, y'know?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm 90% sure that we'll be getting all of the missing costumes back. The Monster Hunter costumes will come with the next Challenger Pack whether the character is Monster Hunter or not (I'm certain of this). If Lloyd isn't in the pass, his costume will come randomly afterward. The only real question is whether or not the Chocobo and Geno costumes will come with a SquareEnix character like Lara Croft, or if they'll come randomly like the Bandai-Namco costumes.

 

[Aerospherology]

Can that Geno skin come back already so we stop talking about Megapinnochio?

Golurk?

 

[JOJONumber691]

And yes. Waluigi is among my most wanted so I'm trying to keep my expectations as low as Humanly Possible when it comes to Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm 90% sure that we'll be getting all of the missing costumes back. The Monster Hunter costumes will come with the next Challenger Pack whether the character is Monster Hunter or not (I'm certain of this). If Lloyd isn't in the pass, his costume will come randomly afterward. The only real question is whether or not the Chocobo and Geno costumes will come with a SquareEnix character like Lara Croft, or if they'll come randomly like the Bandai-Namco costumes.

I have a feeling they’ll come with another Square character. The Namco and Capcom costumes were also all over the place in 4 but Cloud came with the two Square costumes. Plus the fact we saw two Square Spirit Events but not Costumes yet is a bit sus imo

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Golurk?

Nah, Golurk is a clay soldier. Might he be talking about Mega Bannette?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

On that note why haven’t we seen a Namco spirit event yet

you could use Tekken, SC, something relatively obscure like God Eater...

Watch as a Tales of Symphonia event happens after Lloyd’s costume returns lul

 

[chocolatejr9]

I have a feeling they’ll come with another Square character. The Namco and Capcom costumes were also all over the place in 4 but Cloud came with the two Square costumes. Plus the fact we saw two Square Spirit Events but not Costumes yet is a bit sus imo

Man, Balan Wonderworld isn't even out yet, and it's already winning!

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Question: if Vol. 2 had 10 fighters instead of 6 (2 Echoes can come with any one of these), which ones would you pick? Only rule is that you have to include the officially revealed fighters as well.

Been a while since I've shared my trash takes.

• 76: Min Min
• 77: Steve
• 78: Ganon
• 23ε: Samurai Goroh
• 79: Dark Matter
• 54ε: Medusa
• 80: Captain Syrup
• 81: Dr. Eggman
• 82: Dr. Wily
• 83: Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy)

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

And yes. Waluigi is among my most wanted so I'm trying to keep my expectations as low as Humanly Possible when it comes to Smash.

Well, Waluigi feels a helluva lot more likely than King Boo

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Question: if Vol. 2 had 10 fighters instead of 6 (2 Echoes can come with any one of these), which ones would you pick? Only rule is that you have to include the officially revealed fighters as well. Here are mine:

• 76: Min Min
• 76ε: Ninjara
• 77: Sora
• 78: Steve
• 79: Euden
• 80: Crash Bandicoot
• 81: Sakura Shinguji
• 81ε: Sakura Amamiya
• 82: Bandana Dee
• 83: Scorbunny
• 84: Monster Hunter
• 85: Crazy Dave

Honorable mentions: King Boo, Frogger, Jill Valentine

76. Min Min
76e. Dr. Coyle
77. Steve
78. Octoling (still not an echo)
11e. Black Shadow
79. Elma
80. Neku
81. KOS-MOS
82. Crash
83. Gunvolt

honorable mentions: Ahri, Arle, Bandana Dee, Mecha-Fiora, Shantae

 

[drag0nscythe]

This was mentioned at some point further back, in terms of the “Smash bubble”.

I don’t necessarily think the bubble tells us that certain highly wanted characters “aren’t actually wanted”. At least, that’s not how I’ve viewed it.

I’ve viewed it as, folks outside of the bubble, which accounts for much more than the hardcore fanbase, have a far different perspective. When at one point characters like Dante were considered a meme here (yes, that was a thing), he’s been a pretty sizable suggestion by folks for quite sometime outside of Smashboards and other sites.

So it’s never been that characters like Waluigi or Isaac aren’t popular. They are. It’s just that in the grand scheme of things, other characters who at one point weren’t a part of a conversation might have been looked at differently outside of hardcore fan forums.

In terms of the thing with TF2 and Heavy topping polls, that’s mainly exactly what happens when you spread a poll between fan sites and then...one very specific fan forum. It would happen with Dark Souls if you pushed for Solaire, it would probably happen with Fall Guys or Among Us, or many things if it were pushed into a subreddit or otherwise.

Don’t think it can be made much simpler than that.

Moral of the story- what the core fanbase wants/thinks is likely is probably different from what non-hardcore fans want to an extent, and personally, I think the core fanbase does push certain characters further than I think the outside audience thinks.

Like honestly, I am literally not trying to start **** with this next statement- and I’m aware it’s hyperbole- but almost anybody I talk to outside of my Smash community lads tends to want 3rd parties. Very few folks that I’ve talked to, who are outside the Smash core fanbase, want first parties.

It doesn’t mean anything in terms of likelihood, but more that THAT is what plenty of folks are wanting and it seems like it’s rarely talked about.

And this is why I do not think characters like Ryu or MK character have a chance. I see here pushing them. but in the general public, it was steve.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Question: if Vol. 2 had 10 fighters instead of 6 (2 Echoes can come with any one of these), which ones would you pick? Only rule is that you have to include the officially revealed fighters as well. Here are mine:

• 76: Min Min
• 76ε: Ninjara
• 77: Sora
• 78: Steve
• 79: Euden
• 80: Crash Bandicoot
• 81: Sakura Shinguji
• 81ε: Sakura Amamiya
• 82: Bandana Dee
• 83: Scorbunny
• 84: Monster Hunter
• 85: Crazy Dave

Honorable mentions: King Boo, Frogger, Jill Valentine

76. Min Min
77. Steve/Alex
78. Sora
79. Dixie Kong
80. Chun-Li
81. Lloyd Irving
82. Phoenix Wright
83. Impa
84. Sakura Shinguji
85. Arle

Couldn't decide, pick any 2 of the following 5 echos

76e. Ninjara
77e. Roxas (Xion as Alph like alt? Possibly Ventus for Sora's alt as well to make it an even four?)
83e. Apollo Justice (Athena Cykes as Alph like alt?)
84e. Sakura Amamiya
85e. Amitie

 

[Aerospherology]

Question: if Vol. 2 had 10 fighters instead of 6 (2 Echoes can come with any one of these), which ones would you pick? Only rule is that you have to include the officially revealed fighters as well. Here are mine:

• 76: Min Min
• 76ε: Ninjara
• 77: Sora
• 78: Steve
• 79: Euden
• 80: Crash Bandicoot
• 81: Sakura Shinguji
• 81ε: Sakura Amamiya
• 82: Bandana Dee
• 83: Scorbunny
• 84: Monster Hunter
• 85: Crazy Dave

Honorable mentions: King Boo, Frogger, Jill Valentine

• 76: Min Min (ARMS, Nintendo)
• 77: Steve/Alex (Minecraft, Mojang/Microsoft)
• 78: Geno (Super Mario, Nintendo/Square Enix)
• 79: Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden, Koei Tecmo)
• 80: Orbeetle (Pokemon, Nintendo/GAME FREAK)
• 81: Crash (Crash Bandicoot, Activision Blizzard)
• 82: Dr. Eggman (Sonic the Hedgehog, Sega)
• 83: Mike (StarTropics, Nintendo)
• 84: Porky (Earthbound, Nintendo)
• 85: Waluigi (Super Mario, Nintendo)

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

How weird would a Don-chan mii costume look? Id inagine it would look super weird

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

And this is why I do not think characters like Ryu or MK character have a chance. I see here pushing them. but in the general public, it was steve.

Here’s the thing- what we or the general public talk about now has no impact on who/what gets chosen.

We didn’t talk about Terry Bogard much, but I doubt that the larger mainstream fan was discussing him much either.

Hayabusa has plenty of context that helps him. Mortal Kombat probably not, given its standing in Japan.

 

[spicynun]

Question: if Vol. 2 had 10 fighters instead of 6 (2 Echoes can come with any one of these), which ones would you pick? Only rule is that you have to include the officially revealed fighters as well. Here are mine:

• 76: Min Min
• 76ε: Ninjara
• 77: Sora
• 78: Steve
• 79: Euden
• 80: Crash Bandicoot
• 81: Sakura Shinguji
• 81ε: Sakura Amamiya
• 82: Bandana Dee
• 83: Scorbunny
• 84: Monster Hunter
• 85: Crazy Dave

Honorable mentions: King Boo, Frogger, Jill Valentine

76: Min Min
77: Steve/Alex
78: Phoenix Wright
79: Crash Bandicoot
80: Lloyd Irving
81: Vivi
82: Paper Mario
83: Arle Nadja
84: Klonoa
85: Sora

 

[SKX31]

A strong, yet non-gimmicky character being added would be pretty nice. Or at least one that's not super over the top. Banjo just has some 'charges' to his Side B and thats it; that's not bad at all. Even Joker isn't all that bad; it's basically just Limit break that provides a temporary buff. Not super complicated.

I can understand where Sakurai's coming from. Not just designing characters that are true to their source games, but also since... well, we're at 75+ characters right now and the DLC would be more attention-grabbing if they have some unique sauce to them.

That said, yeah, I can fully understand where you're coming from too. It would be nice to have a more straightforward character after the past few (I'd say Byleth, Min Min, Steve) being relatively involved characters.

For me, I honestly think that is rather well-designed - especially when it comes to their adaptability. Although there are quite a few consistency issues (Up-Tilt as an example, since it has trouble connecting on smaller opponents) and they kinda have the problem where they're adaptable but don't have any real obvious strengths.

It's evident in how B-K mains see as their worst matchup - not only can Fox shut down B-K's projectiles, he can also avoid a lot of what B-K likes to do and pressure B-K into oblivion. To that end, B-K doesn't need new moves or anything like that - they just needs QoL fixes or slight buffs (to their frame data, aka attack speed). Perhaps a knockback change to the Grenades at high % so it kills (and prevents stalling shenaningas).

I don't think it helps either that a lot of the talk (especially from more competitive people, who tend to have YT audiences at 10K+ and thus have a lot of indirect influence on the Smash community) that B-K's struggled a bit in that area. Simply put, they've not been as talked about as say Joker or Hero, maybe not even Terry.

As an aside, the only adjustment I think Joker needs is a slight Tetrakarn / Makarakarn nerf (perhaps reducing how much Rebel's Gauge is filled when starting every stock - currently it starts at 20 % when starting a new life). I mean, it lasts so long and is so huge that it's effectively ridicolously safe to throw out. And I'm not just saying that since Joker is Cloud's worst matchup and Cloud has a really bad grab either.

Here’s the thing- what we or the general public talk about now has no impact on who/what gets chosen.

We didn’t talk about Terry Bogard much, but I doubt that the larger mainstream fan was discussing him much either.

Hayabusa has plenty of context that helps him. Mortal Kombat probably not, given its standing in Japan.

It's worth nothing that a lot of the context surrounding Terry was rather hidden to, to be fair: His popularity is mainly focused around Japan / LatAm / China, and the Fatal Fury games' direct (and indirect) influence on Smash Bros. itself only became (semi-)public knowledge after his inclusion too.

That said, I wouldn't be surprise if a character popular (or unpopular) within speculation circles have some hidden context helping said character out.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Question: if Vol. 2 had 10 fighters instead of 6 (2 Echoes can come with any one of these), which ones would you pick? Only rule is that you have to include the officially revealed fighters as well. Here are mine:

• 76: Min Min
• 76ε: Ninjara
• 77: Sora
• 78: Steve
• 79: Euden
• 80: Crash Bandicoot
• 81: Sakura Shinguji
• 81ε: Sakura Amamiya
• 82: Bandana Dee
• 83: Scorbunny
• 84: Monster Hunter
• 85: Crazy Dave

Honorable mentions: King Boo, Frogger, Jill Valentine

Here I go.

76: Min Min (Nintendo)
77: Steve (Microsoft)
78: Axel Stone (Sega)
79: Crash Bandicoot (Activision)
80: Phoenix Wright (Capcom)
81: Klonoa (Bandai Namco)
82: Cormano (Konami)
83: Sora (Square Enix/Disney)
84: Sol Badguy (Arc System Works)
85: Sgt. Cortez (THQ Nordic/Koch Media/Deep Silver)

 

[3BitSaurus]

Here’s the thing- what we or the general public talk about now has no impact on who/what gets chosen.

We didn’t talk about Terry Bogard much, but I doubt that the larger mainstream fan was discussing him much either.

Hayabusa has plenty of context that helps him. Mortal Kombat probably not, given its standing in Japan.

Pretty much this. Steve is the only DLC choice so far that can be considered "mainstream" - the closest thing we have to that is DQ's japanese popularity.

In general, it's more likely that Nintendo will try to cater to different genres/audiences/niches rather than just take the biggest or best selling franchises. It is pretty much what happened in Volume 1, tbh.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That said, yeah, I can fully understand where you're coming from too. It would be nice to have a more straightforward character after the past few (I'd say Byleth, Min Min, Steve) being relatively involved characters.

Wat? Byleth doesn't have any gimmicks. He's the most straightforward DLC character in Ultimate.

 

[Wunderwaft]

This has already been beaten to death but the only reasons I can see why Geno's mii costume hasn't returned yet is because either he's playable or his costume is coming with another SE character. I don't think his mii costume disappearance is a matter of copyright since his spirit is already in the game. Of course there's a third option where his mii costume comes back without any SE pack at all. Then there's a fourth option where his mii costume doesn't come back at all and he's not playable, which is odd but not too shocking considering what happened to Isaac back in Smash 4.

I don't think we'll know his fate in the next pack, considering the recent trend of dropping Namco mii costumes I'm expecting Lloyd's mii costume to drop in the next pack. So unless Geno is FP8 we won't know his actual fate until then.

 

[SharkLord]

Are there any characters you guys don't necessarily want, but think they'd be a lot of fun to play as if they got in?

I don't know much about the Tales series, but the overall gameplay sounds right up my alley. Lloyd seems like the face of the series, so I'll default to him. Plus, the final boss theme of Symphonia couldn't have a more fitting title.

 

[Eldrake]

I was thinking about the Bomberman Mii costume and Mortal Kombat, and it got me thinking. What if they added a 'Mortal Kombat Ninja' mii costume based on the retro ninja design that, just like the Bomberman costume, can change color? Would Mortal Kombat fans be cool with that?

 

[SpectreJordan]

The very first rule of business is: "Don't screw your regulars."

You know, whenever I see someone say that first parties are "objectively unhype" or something, my mind immediately goes back for when I went to check for reactions for the Honor of Kings character in Samsho (forgot her name).

A good chunk of those were dunking on the guest characters added to the game and asking about returning veterans.

A similar case could also be made for what people wanted from MvCI, I guess.



At the same time... scope might be a big difference, but it's one difference.

When other fighting games pull a non-guest character, there's a good chance it's someone the core fans will care about. Meanwhile, we seem to be stuck discussing likelihood in relation to Nintendo's current releases or something.

I guess at this point I might just be venting, but I wish third parties blowing up in Smash hadn't come at the cost of this whole "muh relevance" thing for first parties and having to scream into the void for 2~3 whole games to get a character. I think there could be space for both, if Nintendo was willing to try.

Just because we don’t have Waluigi, Geno, Isaac, Dixie & Bandana Dee doesn’t mean that Nintendo’s been ignoring hardcore Nintendo fans.

getting in as well as all of the veterans returning happened because they wanted to please fans. If it wasn’t for fan demand, the only one of those characters we would’ve seen is Inkling.

 

[SKX31]

Wat? Byleth doesn't have any gimmicks. He's the most straightforward DLC character in Ultimate.

I'd argue his / her arsenal of very strong moves and emphasis on hitting sweetspots (especially with F-Smash) effectively means a Byleth wants to play strategically. Sure, there are no gimmicks per se, but the gimmick come from the playstyle (leading to some strange things like Byleth's Up B leading to a potential 0-to-death on DK if the DK doesn't know which way to mash out etc.).

Then again, it's admittedly a very loose take on "gimmicky".

I was thinking about the Bomberman Mii costume and Mortal Kombat, and it got me thinking. What if they added a 'Mortal Kombat Ninja' mii costume based on the retro ninja design that, just like the Bomberman costume, can change color? Would Mortal Kombat fans be cool with that?

Most probably would be okay with that - not just due to the difficulties with CERO, but also because MK is generally unexpected to begin with.

 

[Goombaic]

I was thinking about the Bomberman Mii costume and Mortal Kombat, and it got me thinking. What if they added a 'Mortal Kombat Ninja' mii costume based on the retro ninja design that, just like the Bomberman costume, can change color? Would Mortal Kombat fans be cool with that?

View attachment 290082

I suggested this long before Bomberman, so yes, I'd be fine with that, especially if it came with music.

 

[Strife]

This has already been beaten to death but the only reasons I can see why Geno's mii costume hasn't returned yet is because either he's playable or his costume is coming with another SE character. I don't think his mii costume disappearance is a matter of copyright since his spirit is already in the game. Of course there's a third option where his mii costume comes back without any SE pack at all. Then there's a fourth option where his mii costume doesn't come back at all and he's not playable, which is odd but not too shocking considering what happened to Isaac back in Smash 4.

I don't think we'll know his fate in the next pack, considering the recent trend of dropping Namco mii costumes I'm expecting Lloyd's mii costume to drop in the next pack. So unless Geno is FP8 we won't know his actual fate until then.

Lol what if Geno just isn't out yet. People keep talking about why its taking Geno so long, not accounting for that with every new DLC they're adding a bunch of Mii Costumes. Unless they're going to release everyone at once, then some characters need to be saved for the end. Why haven't they released Geno Mii Costume yet? Maybe the same reason they haven't released the Monster Hunter Mii Costumes, they simple wanted to release other costumes before them.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The only reason Geno’s costume didn’t show up in Hero’s wave was because Hero served as Dragon Quest promotion, all the costumes were DQ related

I believe Hero’s the only FP to have content exclusively from the fighter’s series only, no costumes of any other series, Square or otherwise