Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Playstation Guy 1000]

I wonder what the smash fandom's reaction would be if we get a Rockstar games rep as the last dlc character.

 

[Prince777]

To think about it, I'm really tired of seeing super-overhyped stuff these days. Nintendo has given the fanbase a lot of the things they wanted, but it seems that the fans are truly unpleasable.
Just let the last two fighters be characters people rarely demanded or will disappoint so that it'll serve as a "We're tired of your stuff" kinda thing.

Not to be combative, but that seems to be a personal issue.
From the businesd standpoint, why wouldn't you want overhyped characters? Hype is what allows the pass to sale super well.
And why wouldn't supporters want more? Tekken, Street Fighter, DBZF, and other games have well beyond 6 DLC characters. Some are already on their second or third seasons.
In fact, this amount of DLC would be less than the 7 Smash 4 offered.

 

[N3ON]

I'd love for Doom Slayer to be included, but I feel like people are way overstating his case. Even questioning whether he is close to a lock is ridiculous, of course he isn't. The main points in his favour are that Bethesda spoke with Nintendo about Smash Bros (which may not have been about Doom Slayer, and may have not even progressed to anything tangible, we've no idea) and that he's demanded - even though that demand didn't get significant until after it would've affected anything.

Apart from that you have Doom games showing up on a Nintendo system, but that in and of itself means little; frequency doesn't inform inclusion. And you have that Doom is a notable, seminal series. You can't argue around that, but that much has been true since before Smash was even a thing, and so far there's nothing to show for it.

And that's without the question of violence - which I don't believe to be an issue, but I also didn't believe Villager and Ridley would present issues prior to Sakurai agreeing with me. So I can't say for sure. Plus his presence in Japan is unquestionably minimal.

Maybe the talks with Bethesda did progress in Doom Slayer's favour, but that's a big if. He's for sure plausible, but not even in the realm of being close to a lock. It's just that right now no one else seems any closer. Hence the character with the best case is falling victim to the fanbase's penchant for hyperbole.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'd love for Doom Slayer to be included, but I feel like people are way overstating his case. Even questioning whether he is close to a lock is ridiculous, of course he isn't. The main points in his favour are that Bethesda spoke with Nintendo about Smash Bros (which may not have been about Doom Slayer, and may have not even progressed to anything tangible, we've no idea) and that he's demanded - even though that demand didn't get significant until after it would've affected anything.

Apart from that you have Doom games showing up on a Nintendo system, but that in and of itself means little; frequency doesn't inform inclusion. And you have that Doom is a notable, seminal series. You can't argue around that, but that much has been true since before Smash was even a thing, and so far there's nothing to show for it.

And that's without the question of violence - which I don't believe to be an issue, but I also didn't believe Villager and Ridley would present issues prior to Sakurai agreeing with me. So I can't say for sure. Plus his presence in Japan is unquestionably minimal.

Maybe the talks with Bethesda did progress in Doom Slayer's favour, but that's a big if. He's for sure plausible, but not even in the realm of being close to a lock. It's just that right now no one else seems any closer. Hence the character with the best case is falling victim to the fanbase's penchant for hyperbole.

I agree, don't get me wrong I'm glad that he's considered the most likely as of now but I don't think that by any means makes him a lock.

Still, when everything is said and done, even if he doesn't get in, I can take solace in the fact that the MOTHER ****ING DOOM SLAYER, of all characters, was considered the most likely candidate by the Smash Community.

That **** is awesome in itself.

 

[Koopaul]

When a character seems like a natural fit it isn't that surprising when a lot of people went that character in. The Doom Slayer has an amazing arsenal of unique weapons and a brutal fighting style. He's a character that is bursting with potential.

Then you got other characters that are a little harder to imagine as fighters. I personally feel like those make some of the most interesting fighters in the game because of how unconventional they are.

I agree with Sakurai when he says he wants to include characters that are not your typical hero/villain types.

 

[N3ON]

I agree, don't get me wrong I'm glad that he's considered the most likely as of now but I don't think that by any means makes him a lock.

Still, when everything is said and done, even if he doesn't get in, I can take solace in the fact that the MOTHER ****ING DOOM SLAYER, of all characters, was considered the most likely candidate by the Smash Community.

That **** is awesome in itself.

The ghosts of Brawl speculation are rolling over in their graves mid-30s that the conversation for inclusion this time has indulged the likes of Doom Slayer, Crash, Master Chief, Steve, Sans and Tracer. Not that the latter three even existed, but back then people were still trying to just get Sonic and Mega Man.

But I don't doubt that, should the series remain active, Doom Slayer will retain demand going forward. His popularity has elevated past that which surrounds a character during a new release then fades away. I think he's just gonna be part of things now. Same with Crash.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Tbh I feel like Doomguy has pretty terrible chances, and this is coming from a fan here. In my opinion people only accepted him as having chances due to rationalizing that old bogus leak that had him on.

 

[Prince777]

I'd love for Doom Slayer to be included, but I feel like people are way overstating his case. Even questioning whether he is close to a lock is ridiculous, of course he isn't. The main points in his favour are that Bethesda spoke with Nintendo about Smash Bros (which may not have been about Doom Slayer, and may have not even progressed to anything tangible, we've no idea) and that he's demanded - even though that demand didn't get significant until after it would've affected anything.

Apart from that you have Doom games showing up on a Nintendo system, but that in and of itself means little; frequency doesn't inform inclusion. And you have that Doom is a notable, seminal series. You can't argue around that, but that much has been true since before Smash was even a thing, and so far there's nothing to show for it.

And that's without the question of violence - which I don't believe to be an issue, but I also didn't believe Villager and Ridley would present issues prior to Sakurai agreeing with me. So I can't say for sure. Plus his presence in Japan is unquestionably minimal.

Maybe the talks with Bethesda did progress in Doom Slayer's favour, but that's a big if. He's for sure plausible, but not even in the realm of being close to a lock. It's just that right now no one else seems any closer. Hence the character with the best case is falling victim to the fanbase's penchant for hyperbole.

Surprisingly enough, I feel precisely the same way about Crash and that all of these factors respectively apply to his case. Despite his notable popularity as a 90's platformer mascot, he hasn't really brought anything new to the table in recent years to support his inclusion. He's also tanked in Japan and remains somewhat if a shell of his former glory.

Don't get me wrong, I could see why he's a popular, but it doesn't seem like he would bring anything new to the series. I feel as though people overhype his chances just as much as Doom Slayer's.
With that said, I feel that he would work better as a base game character.

Doom could work well as DLC, but the points you made are valid.

 

[dezeray112]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77968128/926676502

Vergeben, Yes the Legendary Vergeben just said 4chan stuff are fake

Can't say that I am surprised that the 4chan leak was most likely to be fake. Anyways, it does make me wonder whether he knows anything about the remaining two characters.

 

[Perkilator]

I wonder what the smash fandom's reaction would be if we get a Rockstar games rep as the last dlc character.

I would be absolutely furious, but not before a lovely bit of

 

[N3ON]

Surprisingly enough, I feel precisely the same way about Crash and that all of these factors respectively apply to his case. Despite his notable popularity as a 90's platformer mascot, he hasn't really brought anything new to the table in recent years to support his inclusion. He's also tanked in Japan and remains somewhat if a shell of his former glory.

I mean... compared to Crash in 1999 maybe, but compared to the entire decade and a half that followed, he's doing pretty well at the moment. And his new games may not have lit the charts up in Japan, but his old games were quite successful. That's enough to establish a sufficient foothold given Japan would not be the demographic the character was added for anyway.

But yeah, overall Crash's inclusion hinges on the pedigree of his series, not Smash popularity. However, that's pretty much where we're at for all the remaining candidates (don't tell the Geno and Shantae fans). Unlike Doom Slayer, it seems mostly just his fans that are banking on him, everyone else is just considering him a plausible inclusion, which I agree with. I think he definitely could be added, but if he isn't I won't be surprised. And I think that's where most people stand.

Don't get me wrong, I could see why he's a popular, but it doesn't seem like he would bring anything new to the series. I feel as though people overhype his chances just as much as Doom Slayer's.
With that said, I feel that he would work better as a base game character.

Doom could work well as DLC, but the points you made are valid.

I don't think any of the third-party characters are chosen based on potential, I think they're all chosen based on who they are, or what series they hail from. That said, they all obviously have enough to work with to make them unique, and Crash is no exception.

 

[Dust319]

Except Geno, who was a Mii Costume last time, is a Spirit in this game. So why would they allow him to be a Spirit but not a Mii Costume? If they're really just ports from last game, then why not just port over Geno and Chocobo?

Because it’s easier to pull art assets off google for a spirit and assign stats to it than to port assets from one game on a different system to another maybe? Or Squarenix wasn’t impressed by the sales of the costume and hat from Smash 4? Or they just wanted DragonQuest only dlc?
I don’t presume to know exactly how it occurred but having followed Squarenix for awhile, it the kind of backwards way of handling licensing that they tend to do, especially when it comes to characters like Geno.

I recognize some Geno fans are holding out hope that this will mean he’ll show up as a playable character instead at some point, and despite wishing that was the case, I’m expecting the opposite.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I think Geno might have his chances if we do have more than the fighter pass, but not now. I just don't see two Square enix characters in the same pass.

 

[Predictabo]

What hurts Geno the most is the overlap that's he is a Mario character and a third party character at the same time and there are far better picks in both camps.

 

[YezenIRl]

As someone who thinks that Geno shouldn't get in, I actually think Geno is one of the most likely characters. Ultimate seems like it's really been trying to cater to fan demand, and so I could imagine then tossing Geno in at the end just to make people happy.

 

[BZocky]

Here's something... a trademark application for "SMASH BROTHERS" was filed on August 2nd, and was released about 9 days ago.

https://chizai-watch.com/t/2019105560
I don't know what it means for sure but here's an extremely rough idea of the description a la Google Translate.

Class 35 (advertising / office work) , 38 (communication) , 42 (science / technology) benefits provided to customers in merchandise service advertisements , retail or wholesale business of electromechanical equipment or telecommunications machinery equipment, to those who conduct

 

[Prince777]

It's very likely that Geno could get in as a bonus character if he's not part of the fighters pass.
Unlike certain bonus characters, he could certainly bring new Super Mario RPG content in the game (Spirits, OST, and a stage).
His chances aren't solid, but they're fairly realistic.

 

[yeet123]

If we're talking "crazy bonus characters", my bet is on Waluigi.

Geno would be my next bet tho. Id take either characters with a huge smile.

 

[andree123]

Here's something... a trademark application for "SMASH BROTHERS" was filed on August 2nd, and was released about 9 days ago.
View attachment 236070
https://chizai-watch.com/t/2019105560
I don't know what it means for sure but here's an extremely rough idea of the description a la Google Translate.

There are some kind of "telephone" stuff in this page, it probably sounds like a smash bros mobile game to me.

 

[Deleted member]

Well I just came back and you guys were talking about Doomguy in Smash...

I just want a female rep. Not that I don't want him in or anything. I don't want an all-male DLC Fighters Pass. It doesn't feel right. If they really did it, i think my disappointment would be far from immeasurable.

Just...one. One. Female. Character. Woman. It doesn't have to be the one I want, but it just wouldn't appeal to me. You can have Shantae, 2B, Reimu or just about anyone.

I'm sorry if my opinion is too personal, but I just hope y'all could understand.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Well I just came back and you guys were talking about Doomguy in Smash...

I just want a female rep. Not that I don't want him in or anything. I don't want an all-male DLC Fighters Pass. It doesn't feel right. If they really did it, i think my disappointment would be far from immeasurable.

Just...one. One. Female. Character. Woman. It doesn't have to be the one I want, but it just wouldn't appeal to me. You can have Shantae, 2B, Reimu or just about anyone.

I'm sorry if my opinion is too personal, but I just hope y'all could understand.

Well if it makes you feel any better, I still think Jill from Resident Evil is pretty likely.

Speaking of which, it seems like Jill or any Resident Evil character in general has kind of fallen off in DLC discussion recently, maybe people have just run out of things to say on the topic.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's something... a trademark application for "SMASH BROTHERS" was filed on August 2nd, and was released about 9 days ago.

Spoiler: Media

View attachment 236070

https://chizai-watch.com/t/2019105560
I don't know what it means for sure but here's an extremely rough idea of the description a la Google Translate.

It clearly means we'll be getting a mobile gotcha game with a story that is literally just World of Light, but more characters are involved, and the scenes are more fleshed out with like, actual story arcs and stuff.

EDIT: This was meant to be a joke, but it does sound kinda exciting. I'd be sad when all of my favorite characters are trash tier pulls they don't really want you using past the beginning stages though. That and not being able to play it for more than 20 minutes.
EDIT EDIT: And having to pay to maybe get that cool King Boo spirit I wanted, and stuff like Deep Breathing and Soccer are the most common pulls.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: I don't want this game anymore. Send it back.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It clearly means we'll be getting a mobile gotcha game with a story that is literally just World of Light, but more characters are involved, and the scenes are more fleshed out with like, actual story arcs and stuff.

EDIT: This was meant to be a joke, but it does sound kinda exciting. I'd be sad when all of my favorite characters are trash tier pulls they don't really want you using past the beginning stages though. That and not being able to play it for more than 20 minutes.
EDIT EDIT: And having to pay to maybe get that cool King Boo spirit I wanted, and stuff like Deep Breathing and Soccer are the most common pulls.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: I don't want this game anymore. Send it back.

Curse you for birthing that idea into the world.

Some things you can't take back.

 

[Deleted member]

It clearly means we'll be getting a mobile gotcha game with a story that is literally just World of Light, but more characters are involved, and the scenes are more fleshed out with like, actual story arcs and stuff.

EDIT: This was meant to be a joke, but it does sound kinda exciting. I'd be sad when all of my favorite characters are trash tier pulls they don't really want you using past the beginning stages though. That and not being able to play it for more than 20 minutes.
EDIT EDIT: And having to pay to maybe get that cool King Boo spirit I wanted, and stuff like Deep Breathing and Soccer are the most common pulls.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: I don't want this game anymore. Send it back.

It's either me or I'm just down for it. Having played FEH for like, almost 2 years now, it would be refreshing. I'm just concerned if it's super P2W or not.

 

[volbound1700]

Also this forum forbids support threads for fourth party characters.

There is no such thing as a fourth party character. Mickey Mouse would be a third-party character.

Breaking the internet I don't think is the main point of the pass more so that it's to bring in even more fans to Smash Bros. that weren't originally. I think Hero will do a lot for the Smash fanbase in Japan. Do I necessarily think that Joker or Banjo are going to bring in a giant audience? No, but those two definitely did something that no one expects and I think that says a lot. No one expected a character from a Playstation Exclusive RPG that came out the year prior to get announced for Smash Bros. because people thought that he was A) Too Recent B) Not big enough or C) Just didn't care for him. Banjo was a Nintendo character that swapped hands in the shuffle of Rare and is finally back so for fans since the N64, like myself, and earlier this is a big deal for us to finally get solidarity that Banjo is a part of the Nintendo family. If we're going by that standard of doing things the general public, and even us, doesn't expect I suspect the Doom Slayer is absolutely going to fit that bill. A bullet loaded, spin ripping, space marine from a series that helped form the ESRB due to its uncensored violence and yet helped grandfather in the most popular genre in video games? I dunno. That just screams Smash material to me, and no one without the Smash fandom will really see it coming.

That being said I'm not 100% sold that Doom Slayer is a lock, I think he's highly likely but I also don't think he's likely to be next. If I were to make a prediction I would say that Banjo is next, in October, then we would see the next character in December, and then we'd get an announcement of the Doom Slayer at The Game Awards. My personal bet is Hayabusa in December because he fills in a role of NES Legend that the Fighters Pass is unlikely to get otherwise. That's just my prediction though.

I actually think that Hayabusa is the most likely character besides Geno to make it in the game. Hayabusa fits the bill of being popular in all polls.

 

[Prince777]

Well I just came back and you guys were talking about Doomguy in Smash...

I just want a female rep. Not that I don't want him in or anything. I don't want an all-male DLC Fighters Pass. It doesn't feel right. If they really did it, i think my disappointment would be far from immeasurable.

Just...one. One. Female. Character. Woman. It doesn't have to be the one I want, but it just wouldn't appeal to me. You can have Shantae, 2B, Reimu or just about anyone.

I'm sorry if my opinion is too personal, but I just hope y'all could understand.

Couldn't agree with you more man. I want at least one female rep in this pass (and nah, Kazooie doesn't count).

Jill (Resident Evil), Shantae, Reimu, Tracer, and Kasumi seem to have solid chances.

 

[perfectchaos83]

But reasonably speaking I disagree. I've never played Doom. I've never played Advance Wars. Yet I can look at Doom, and look at Advance Wars, and say just from a common sense standpoint that one of these series getting in is a much bigger deal than the other. And that's what I mean when I say a Nintendo pass is underwhelming.The selections aren't as big a deal compared to the ones we're looking at for a third party pass.

Why is "Being a bigger deal" important? They'll both still sell. Yes, Doomguy may sell more. But that doesn't mean Andy or Sami wouldn't bring in their own excitement. Somebody out there will get excited. This same argument works for the likes of Goku and Mickey, and they straight up are never happening.

#1.

I'll be frank, I hate this counter argument. Joker's gun is fake. It has a keychain ring, a detail that straight up doesn't exists in Persona 5, to make it 'unrealistic' enough.

 

[DarthEnderX]

There is no such thing as a fourth party character. Mickey Mouse would be a third-party character.

It's a fan term for non-video game characters. Don't overthink it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know I’ve actually seen people here discussing Ryu Hayabusa less and less. He used to be a top contender in many ppl’s eyes alongside Doom Slayer.

What happened?

 

[Deleted member]

You know I’ve actually seen people here discussing Ryu Hayabusa less and less. He used to be a top contender in many ppl’s eyes alongside Doom Slayer.

What happened?

I personally dunno. It's their decision anyway. Probably lack of interest.
To be honest with you, I've never played either DOOM or Ninja Gaiden so I'm personally not attached, so I think either they bandwagoned over the older leaks or so.

 

[Onua]

You know I’ve actually seen people here discussing Ryu Hayabusa less and less. He used to be a top contender in many ppl’s eyes alongside Doom Slayer.

What happened?

Mostly cause most ppl assume Kasumi has better chances now. Shes kinda just overshot Hayabusa when it comes to discussion

 

[Deleted member]

I hope so...?

If we're going by that then it'll probably be like the Chrom scenario of Smash 4.

Guess he'll have his chance another day...

 

[Onua]

On that note the characters ive seen most ppl assume currently are

Doomguy
Phoenix Wright
Kasumi
Jill
Crash
Dante

Id be shocked if the final 2 arent from this list

 

[Deleted member]

On that note the characters ive seen most ppl assume currently are

Doomguy
Phoenix Wright
Kasumi
Jill
Crash
Dante

Id be shocked if the final 2 arent from this list

Same. I could say I'd want Kasumi more due to her recent spike in popularity but if Sakurai pulls another surprise card then I'm all ears.

 

[Onua]

Same. I could say I'd want Kasumi more due to her recent spike in popularity but if Sakurai pulls another surprise card then I'm all ears.

Kasumi is the safest bet right now when it comes to a possible female rep. I personally dont think Jill is very likely. So if we do get a girl I think itll be Kasumi or no one personally. That is if they decide to pick her over hayabusa
I think at this point its a question of do they wanna pick the popular character (kasumi) or the nostalgic character (Hayabusa)

 

[---]

You know I’ve actually seen people here discussing Ryu Hayabusa less and less. He used to be a top contender in many ppl’s eyes alongside Doom Slayer.

What happened?

Still my most wanted for the Challenger Pack. I feel like there is a lot they could take from and it'd be nice to see given his series history on Nintendo platforms. Honestly I'm surprised nothing has happened yet given the history of Nintendo/Koei Tecmo collabs. We already have a Fatal Frame Assist trophy in the game, and they were credited in the previous game for Other M/Pyrosphere content.

Mostly cause most ppl assume Kasumi has better chances now. Shes kinda just overshot Hayabusa when it comes to discussion

Would be cool with her too, but I think she overshot due to recent rumors and that we're all secretly weebs. Though in all fairness I could see the folks at Koei Tecmo pushing her too.

 

[YezenIRl]

Why is "Being a bigger deal" important? They'll both still sell. Yes, Doomguy may sell more. But that doesn't mean Andy or Sami wouldn't bring in their own excitement. Somebody out there will get excited. This same argument works for the likes of Goku and Mickey, and they straight up are never happening.

It's a long story, but the answer is "because it's DLC, not the base roster."

A character like Andy/Sami/Chibi Robo/Bandana Dee/Karate Joe etc. is the type of character that makes more sense on the base roster. Sure if you had them as DLC they would bring excitement for some people, and they would still sell to those people, or people who want a complete roster. But it's an undeniably smaller audience they'd be selling to, and an undeniably smaller base of people who would be enthusiastic about those characters.

The way Smash typically works, is that it mixes in popular characters that people really want, with niche characters that people didn't know they wanted. That way, people are reeled in by the bigger names to buy the entire product, and then in doing so find some new surprises and learn to enjoy characters they'd never considered before. So for example, you come for Mario and Link, you stay for Ness and Ice Climbers.

But with DLC it just doesn't work like that. Each DLC character is being sold individually. They have to reel in customers themselves, without bigger characters to do it for them.

This same argument works for the likes of Goku and Mickey, and they straight up are never happening.

That's just because they open the doors too much and smash is a video game thing. But even that is an arbitrary rule. It used to be no third parties. One day, maybe even after Sakurai is no longer running the show, someone might cave and put in Goku under the pretense that he is in more video games than most of the roster.

 

[N3ON]

I'll be frank, I hate this counter argument. Joker's gun is fake. It has a keychain ring, a detail that straight up doesn't exists in Persona 5, to make it 'unrealistic' enough.

It's fake in Persona 5, so in theory it'd be fake in Smash. But Smash makes absolutely no mention of it being fake, so from a rating perspective, or from the perception of someone unfamiliar with P5, it's as good as real.

Well if it makes you feel any better, I still think Jill from Resident Evil is pretty likely.

Speaking of which, it seems like Jill or any Resident Evil character in general has kind of fallen off in DLC discussion recently, maybe people have just run out of things to say on the topic.

RE seems to be more a case of expecting rather than wanting, so I guess most people don't really have the drive to broach it. But I suspect it's just as expected now as it was a few weeks back.

You know I’ve actually seen people here discussing Ryu Hayabusa less and less. He used to be a top contender in many ppl’s eyes alongside Doom Slayer.

What happened?

I think that was mostly due to "leaks". People weren't really talking about him much beforehand (unlike Doom Slayer), and once the leaks faded away, people again basically left the topic.

 

[perfectchaos83]

It's fake in Persona 5, so in theory it'd be fake in Smash. But Smash makes absolutely no mention of it being fake, so from a rating perspective, or from the perception of someone unfamiliar with P5, it's as good as real.

And yet you fail to touch upon the keychain ring on the gun. It's a detail that was added specifically for Smash and is not a detail that exists at all in Persona 5. It obviously must have been added for a reason.

 

[N3ON]

And yet you fail to touch upon the keychain ring on the gun. It's a detail that was added specifically for Smash and is not a detail that exists at all in Persona 5. It obviously must have been added for a reason.

I didn't touch on it because it's not enough to otherwise effect the rating or change the perception (I bet most people don't even know it's there).

A keychain ring isn't nearly over-the-top enough to make that gun somehow unrealistic. Especially when you contrast its realism with how out-there so much of Smash is. Like, if you added a keychain ring to Doom Slayer's shotgun, it's still going to receive the treatment of a normal shotgun.