Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[volbound1700]

By the way, for the people talking about characters that would generate hype. There are really two characters that stand out to me as generating the most hype:

1. Sora
2. Masterchief

No other first or third party character would be capable of generating the hype that these two characters would create. I think Doomguy could capture some of the Masterchief crowd and would generate hype as well (this is partly why I think he is coming. Doomguy is also really the only FPS character that made any inroads into Japan with popularity - although not a lot).

There is a third character that people aren't talking about that would be an IP nightmare for Nintendo but would generate MAJOR hype and that is Epic Mickey or Mickey Mouse. Imagine Mickey Mouse (the most iconic cartoon character) against Mario (the most iconic video game character). Mickey Mouse has appeared on most of the Nintendo Consoles.

 

[GoodGrief741]

By the way, for the people talking about characters that would generate hype. There are really two characters that stand out to me as generating the most hype:

1. Sora
2. Masterchief

No other first or third party character would be capable of generating the hype that these two characters would create. I think Doomguy could capture some of the Masterchief crowd and would generate hype as well (this is partly why I think he is coming. Doomguy is also really the only FPS character that made any inroads into Japan with popularity - although not a lot).

There is a third character that people aren't talking about that would be an IP nightmare for Nintendo but would generate MAJOR hype and that is Epic Mickey or Mickey Mouse. Imagine Mickey Mouse (the most iconic cartoon character) against Mario (the most iconic video game character). Mickey Mouse has appeared on most of the Nintendo Consoles.

Hmmm... I wonder why people aren't talking about Mickey Mouse?

Also Doomguy made zero inroads into Japan popularity-wise.

 

[Wunderwaft]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77968128/926676502

Vergeben, Yes the Legendary Vergeben just said 4chan stuff are fake

I'm disappointed that we reached the point where we need leakers to confirm that anonymous 4chan posts with no proofs are fake.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The only third-party characters I’d personally be super hyped for are Banjo & Kazooie (Coming SoonTM!), Steve, a Creeper, and Undertale (mostly Sans & Papyrus but I’d be hyped for any of the others as well). I’d also like Spyro and Crash, and think some others seem cool, but eh.

I’d also be hyped if Sakurai somehow got SpongeBob, Popeye, or Mickey Mouse, not gonna lie, though really it should just stay videogames-only (honestly I wouldn’t care about that if any of them got in, though, but it would be weird tbh).

Otherwise I just want first/second-parties, but all-in-all I don’t really care if other characters get in - I may even find them cool - I just feel disappointed in the ones I like not making it, as we all tend to feel.

 

[Prince777]

Connections go deeper than that tbf if you really wanna dig.

The game Reimu and Kirby crossed over was a Taiko Drum Master game developed by Namco.

Nintendo (And Sega) have both sold Touhou albums at Reitaisai (An annual Touhou convention). In Turn, Nintendo also had purchased a license for the music in December of 2015.

Source: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19472.msg1252539.html#msg1252539

Also worth mentioning that ZUN is also very open to working closer with Nintendo.

Source: http://theylivewesleep.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-50.html?sp



Not that any of this makes it likely, but it's fun info.

Whew, this is a whole lot to take in! I just wanna say that you composed that message so well; it's full of valid sources paired with the word of ZUN himself.

As I interpret all of this, I think it's safe to say that Reimu has an even greater chance than we think.

Her inclusion would:

*Break the internet

*Represent a new genre

*Be the very first playable indie rep

And a lot more that's currently unforseen.

She's still got some notable competition, but it would be dope to see her in. Vergeban confirmed that the leak was fake, so that narrows the possibility down to other choices now.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Mickey Mouse? Why would one entertain that more than Shrek or Darth Vader?

I would do everything I could to mod him out of my copy if he got in.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Mickey Mouse? Why would one entertain that more than Shrek or Darth Vader?

I would do everything I could to mod him out of my copy if he got in.

I’d also like Shrek and Darth Vader tbh.

Somebody once told me th-

 

[Prince777]

The only third-party characters I’d personally be super hyped for are Banjo & Kazooie (Coming SoonTM!), Steve, a Creeper, and Undertale (mostly Sans & Papyrus but I’d be hyped for any of the others as well). I’d also like Spyro and Crash, and think some others seem cool, but eh.

I’d also be hyped if Sakurai somehow got SpongeBob, Popeye, or Mickey Mouse, not gonna lie, though really it should just stay videogames-only (honestly I wouldn’t care about that if any of them got in, though, but it would be weird tbh).

Otherwise I just want first/second-parties, but all-in-all I don’t really care if other characters get in - I may even find them cool - I just feel disappointed in the ones I like not making it, as we all tend to feel.

The case for 4th parties is an interesting one, albeit notorious.
The primary issue with 4th parties isn't necessarily Sakurai's or Nintendo's doing (in contrary to what most would otherwise suggest), but licensing is the big ticket here. Sakurai has to approach each of them, and if either one of the companies say no for whatever reason, the character cannot be in. Considering how much it would profit them and satisfy their fans, I'm not sure why they or other third parties like Square would be so hardcore about not allowing their characters or content in the game.

It could perhaps happen one day, but not anytime soon.

Sakurai's "anti Non-video game" policy has just as much word as his other claims like Ridley being too big, his last iterations being his last games, and Snake being the only third party at a time. We shall see, though.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Also this forum forbids support threads for fourth party characters.

 

[YezenIRl]

Jesus...all these Nintendo Pass lists show exactly why a Nintendo Pass would suck.

I'm a huge Nintendo fan so I hate to say it, but I pretty much agree.

Though I'm sure any of us could pick out 5 Nintendo characters we would love to see in Smash, it all becomes very hit or miss. Most characters feel random, or they feel like over representations of franchises that are already well represented. Otherwise, it's either the character is someone you personally like/want, or it's someone you have absolutely no interest in and doesn't feel particularly important or unique or justified over anyone else.

But If I'm trying to be as objective as possible:

1. Chorus Kids (or Chibi Robo if Rhythm Heaven is too hard to implement)
2. Akira Howard
3. Twintelle
4. Andy
5. Waluigi

No Fire Emblem. No obligatory Pokemon. Keep it as many new series as possible. But close with Waluigi for the "everyone is here" finale.

But even still, compared t what is available when we go third party, a Nintendo Pass all feels very underwhelming and obligatory. Honestly, the Nintendo character that Smash needs more than any other is a decloned Ganondorf. It's the biggest travesty in all of Smash that Ganondorf still fights like he does.

 

[DarthEnderX]

1. King Hippo
2. King Hippo
3. King Hippo
4. King Hippo
5. Eggplant Wizard

 

[yeet123]

By the way, for the people talking about characters that would generate hype. There are really two characters that stand out to me as generating the most hype:

1. Sora
2. Masterchief

No other first or third party character would be capable of generating the hype that these two characters would create. I think Doomguy could capture some of the Masterchief crowd and would generate hype as well (this is partly why I think he is coming. Doomguy is also really the only FPS character that made any inroads into Japan with popularity - although not a lot).

There is a third character that people aren't talking about that would be an IP nightmare for Nintendo but would generate MAJOR hype and that is Epic Mickey or Mickey Mouse. Imagine Mickey Mouse (the most iconic cartoon character) against Mario (the most iconic video game character). Mickey Mouse has appeared on most of the Nintendo Consoles.

Add Crash to your list and I 100p agree

Mickey in Smash would be the most ****ing ridiculous thing Id ever see. Sign me up

 

[perfectchaos83]

I'm a huge Nintendo fan so I hate to say it, but I pretty much agree.

Though I'm sure any of us could pick out 5 Nintendo characters we would love to see in Smash, it all becomes very hit or miss. Most characters feel random, or they feel like over representations of franchises that are already well represented. Otherwise, it's either the character is someone you personally like/want, or it's someone you have absolutely no interest in and doesn't feel particularly important or unique or justified over anyone else.

But If I'm trying to be as objective as possible:

1. Chorus Kids (or Chibi Robo if Rhythm Heaven is too hard to implement)
2. Akira Howard
3. Twintelle
4. Andy
5. Waluigi

No Fire Emblem. No obligatory Pokemon. Keep it as many new series as possible. But close with Waluigi for the "everyone is here" finale.

But even still, compared t what is available when we go third party, a Nintendo Pass all feels very underwhelming and obligatory. Honestly, the Nintendo character that Smash needs more than any other is a decloned Ganondorf. It's the biggest travesty in all of Smash that Ganondorf still fights like he does.

At the end of the day, it's all bias. I'm looking at all the 3rd parties others are bringing up and I get the same reaction as you for Nintendo characters. I see no reason for Doom guy to be in Smash. I see no reason for an RE character to join or even anyone else from Capcom for that matter. To me, it feels like it's obligatory "Because they are successful they need to be in". That isn't how roster selection has ever worked. There are people who don't like the current fighters pass, so you obviously can't please everyone. Not everything has to be "OMG Break the Internet hype!" and this is a lesson I hope gets learned by the next two characters in the Fighters pass.

 

[TheYungLink]

My friends love Touhou and if ZUN decided to make an exception and trust Sakurai with putting Reimu in Smash, they'd probably scream their lungs out in delight so I'm supporting her from the sides.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Touhou is now tying up with Aniplex and Good Smile Company and allowing voice acting and even microtransactions so ZUN and Touhou are changing.
The popularity of Touhou is in decline compared to the time before KanColle and FGO so the franchise has a reason to expand its market.

 

[Zzuxon]

A Nintendo pass would be super easy to do well.
Toad
Waluigi
Dixie Kong
Impa
Bandanna Dee
Isaac
Chibi-Robo
Andy or Sami
Excitebiker
Ray

And that's just off the top of my head. These would all be worthy inclusions, and just about any combo of these characters would be super marketable.

 

[ze9]

To be honest, most 3rd parties from now on will feel random too.
We already have almost everyone that's super mega iconic and/or heavily associated with Nintendo (apart from Bomberman... RIP, sweet prince). Joker is the only one that doesn't fit that mold and he already feels kinda random.
That's one of the reasons why I'm rooting for Doomguy, actually. He would make sense.

 

[DMTN]

To be honest, most 3rd parties from now on will feel random too.
We already have almost everyone that's super mega iconic and/or heavily associated with Nintendo (apart from Bomberman... RIP, sweet prince). Joker is the only one that doesn't fit that mold and he already feels kinda random.
That's one of the reasons why I'm rooting for Doomguy, actually. He would make sense.

I'd say Phoenix Wright also makes sense for the same reasons as Doomguy: his entire franchise is available on Nintendo systems.

 

[Deleted member]

Not everything has to be "OMG Break the Internet hype!" and this is a lesson I hope gets learned by the next two characters in the Fighters pass.

This is actually perfect for a question I had in mind.

What are characters that seem unlikely to generate that kind of hype if they are revealed for the Fighter Pass? Right now, I instantly ruled out Master Chief, Doom Slayer, Crash, Leon, Dante, Scorpion, Dragonborn, an Overwatch character, Steve, an Undertale character, Sora, Kratos, Shantae, Waluigi, and non-video game characters. They all would end up blowing up social media just by the sheer mention of their name in Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nintendo Pass time? Let’s go.

Dixie Kong (Diddy semi clone if they need to)
Funky Kong (possibly DK Echo)
Isaac (Felix and Matthew alts)
Byleth (Three Houses is doing amazing)
Impa (possibility exists of her being based on the BotW sequel) / Edelgard / Dimitri (shamefully Dimitri isn’t as likely)
Skull Kid
Excitebiker / Mach Rider / Balloon Fighter / other strong retro “rep”
Paper Mario
Bandana Dee
Slippy Toad (possibility as a Falco Echo who’s shorter or something, maybe with Fox’s or Wolf’s Blaster; make something up)

And I’m pretty sure this would be received quite positively.

 

[ze9]

I'd say Phoenix Wright also makes sense for the same reasons as Doomguy: his entire franchise is available on Nintendo systems.

Yeah, and also Resident Evil and something like Layton and Monster Hunter would fit right in too. After those though, we'll kinda start to get in "anything goes" territory.

A 1st party Pass would be very well-received as long as it's focused on fan-service instead of promotion. There's still plenty of characters this fanbase has been waiting to see for a lomg time.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

If Nintendo thinks a character's inclusion will make them enough money, or if someone powerful enough (maybe Sakurai) simply wants to add that character, that character will be added. I don't really see the point in being a downer on here, unless you're obliquely making the point that the above isn't the case for certain characters, in which case you should make it more plain. I really don't care if certain characters don't excite you. That's not something I can engage with.

 

[Jacuzzi Splot]

Has anyone mentioned Tron Bonne as possible for the leak?

 

[Izanagi97]

I'm disappointed that we reached the point where we need leakers to confirm that anonymous 4chan posts with no proofs are fake.

I mean so far, ResetERA is the only place I know of with reliable text leaks due to that place having no bull**** tolerance (though I hear the rest of the site sucks)

 

[Koopaul]

Their "no bull**** tolerance" is the most hypocrital I've seen in any community.

Anyway, I highly doubt that we'll get another fighter pass at this point. Sakurai seems exhausted and the DLC seems to be costing a lot more than expected. I have to wonder, when will people be satisfied. This roster is reaching 80 fighters and we still want more? C'mon! Just be happy for once.

 

[Prince777]

Their "no bull**** tolerance" is the most hypocrital I've seen in any community.

Anyway, I highly doubt that we'll get another fighter pass at this point. Sakurai seems exhausted and the DLC seems to be costing a lot more than expected. I have to wonder, when will people be satisfied. This roster is reaching 80 fighters and we still want more? C'mon! Just be happy for once.

Costing a lot more than expected? It's generating quite the hefty amount of profits in return.
Most of the fanbase admits to being generally content thanks to all the characters and content that we already have.

At this point, we're just trying to get all we can get to continue making this game the Ultimate Smash Bros. experience.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This roster is reaching 80 fighters and we still want more? C'mon! Just be happy for once.

Oh cool I got a box of cookies! I'm quite happy with all of these cookies, though I'm certainly not going to turn down more cookies. I'd have to hate cookies in order to do that!

 

[Guynamednelson]

This roster is reaching 80 fighters

Doesn't mean you only like 80 video game characters, let alone all 80 of the fighters in Smash.

 

[tenworldsguy]

Mickey Mouse? Why would one entertain that more than Shrek or Darth Vader?

I would do everything I could to mod him out of my copy if he got in.

As someone who does not yet own the game for financial reasons (I'm a broke kiddo just about to enter college), I would have to say:
If Mickey, or any fourth party, was added, I'd go back and just stick entirely to PM and its mods. The day a fourth party enters is the day Smash becomes a sellout (don't try and argue Hero with me as a sellout- if Disney got in, they'd def let you know that they're in Smash).

Nintendo Pass time? Let’s go.

Dixie Kong (Diddy semi clone if they need to)
Funky Kong (possibly DK Echo)
Isaac (Felix and Matthew alts)
Byleth (Three Houses is doing amazing)
Impa (possibility exists of her being based on the BotW sequel) / Edelgard / Dimitri (shamefully Dimitri isn’t as likely)
Skull Kid
Excitebiker / Mach Rider / Balloon Fighter / other strong retro “rep”
Paper Mario
Bandana Dee
Slippy Toad (possibility as a Falco Echo who’s shorter or something, maybe with Fox’s or Wolf’s Blaster; make something up)

And I’m pretty sure this would be received quite positively.

No Advance Wars rep? I thought we were evolving as a board, tsk tsk
Jokes aside I could see Isaac and Paper Mario selling like hotcakes, probably the others too but those two in particular

We could also do Takamaru or Ayumi as "Retro Reps"- Takamaru was considered for Sm4sh, had a Nintendo Land game, has an assist, etc. Ayumi has really unique moveset potential, and both were considered for Melee

 

[Predictabo]

I mean so far, ResetERA is the only place I know of with reliable text leaks due to that place having no bull**** tolerance (though I hear the rest of the site sucks)

Remember Star Fox Grand Prix?

 

[ROBnWatch]

Anyway, I highly doubt that we'll get another fighter pass at this point. Sakurai seems exhausted and the DLC seems to be costing a lot more than expected. I have to wonder, when will people be satisfied. This roster is reaching 80 fighters and we still want more? C'mon! Just be happy for once.

For the most part, I’m pretty sure everyone is happy/content with what we have. I personally don’t expect more DLC either after this pass. I think everything is more of a hypothetical at this point. As in, “Hypothetically, if we get another pass, here’s what I’d want...” rather than “I need/demand another pass so this, this, and this can happen.”

 

[SKX31]

Their "no bull**** tolerance" is the most hypocrital I've seen in any community.

Anyway, I highly doubt that we'll get another fighter pass at this point. Sakurai seems exhausted and the DLC seems to be costing a lot more than expected. I have to wonder, when will people be satisfied. This roster is reaching 80 fighters and we still want more? C'mon! Just be happy for once.

Aside from echoing SMAASH! Puppy :

We have, honestly, no conclusive evidence whether or not DLC will stop the coming February. Yes, Sakurai's in pain, but he's also a massive workhorse and even figured that said pain are "necessary costs". I mean, he worked through his tendinitis since Smash 4's development - including its DLC, mind - and didn't let food poisoning stop him during Ultimate's. For the record, I count conclusive evidence as official word from Sakurai and / or Nintendo on the matter.

Could work on DLC stop with Fighter Pass 5? Yes, it could. But that's up to Sakurai and Nintendo to announce when they will stop. There's also the wider effect of Japanese worker ethic to consider, but I find it difficult to place it within Sakurai's situation since that could be more of a background influencer.

 

[N3ON]

Remember Star Fox Grand Prix?

If you're arguing that resetera isn't infallible, you're battling a strawman. No record is perfect.
There were also people across IGN, Twitter, Youtube and GameFAQs that peddled SF:GP.

Resetera is a terrible place in most regards, but is the most reputable overall.

 

[Deleted member]

At the end of the day, it's all bias. I'm looking at all the 3rd parties others are bringing up and I get the same reaction as you for Nintendo characters. I see no reason for Doom guy to be in Smash. I see no reason for an RE character to join or even anyone else from Capcom for that matter. To me, it feels like it's obligatory "Because they are successful they need to be in". That isn't how roster selection has ever worked. There are people who don't like the current fighters pass, so you obviously can't please everyone. Not everything has to be "OMG Break the Internet hype!" and this is a lesson I hope gets learned by the next two characters in the Fighters pass.

To think about it, I'm really tired of seeing super-overhyped stuff these days. Nintendo has given the fanbase a lot of the things they wanted, but it seems that the fans are truly unpleasable.
Just let the last two fighters be characters people rarely demanded or will disappoint so that it'll serve as a "We're tired of your stuff" kinda thing.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

By the way, for the people talking about characters that would generate hype. There are really two characters that stand out to me as generating the most hype:

1. Sora
2. Masterchief

No other first or third party character would be capable of generating the hype that these two characters would create. I think Doomguy could capture some of the Masterchief crowd and would generate hype as well (this is partly why I think he is coming. Doomguy is also really the only FPS character that made any inroads into Japan with popularity - although not a lot).

There is a third character that people aren't talking about that would be an IP nightmare for Nintendo but would generate MAJOR hype and that is Epic Mickey or Mickey Mouse. Imagine Mickey Mouse (the most iconic cartoon character) against Mario (the most iconic video game character). Mickey Mouse has appeared on most of the Nintendo Consoles.

I agree about Sora and Master Chief generating hype levels off the sky, but not Mickey Mouse though. Honestly, I think Goku would generate more hype than Mickey Mouse would and I don't want either of them.

Has anyone mentioned Tron Bonne as possible for the leak?

I want Tron Bonne, but I honestly don't think she is likely what so ever by any means.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I think Goku would generate more hype than Mickey Mouse would and I don't want either of them.

I'd say the same. I'm an advocate to keeping those kinds of characters from Smash, and if anyone genuinely wants them, they're on my hitlist. What's with this mentality anyway?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'd say the same. I'm an advocate to keeping those kinds of characters from Smash, and if anyone genuinely wants them, they're on my hitlist. What's with this mentality anyway?

I think it's mostly silly causals that want non video game characters into Smash. Like, don't get me wrong, I love anime, cartoons, and ect but I don't want any of those characters even my favorites coming into Smash because I feel it would be wrong.

 

[SKX31]

I'd say the same. I'm an advocate to keeping those kinds of characters from Smash, and if anyone genuinely wants them, they're on my hitlist. What's with this mentality anyway?

It's difficult to say, but if I had to hazard a guess:

First, the early (64 / Melee) days. Back then the policy had not even been formed yet. It's not a surprise to me then that James Bond and Doraemon appeared on the Smash 2 poll. Sakurai himself didn't become a known name until Brawl IIRC, and it's during that time when he first stated that position (link to the Smash 2 poll there).

Second, lack of info simply among some. As someone else has noted here Goku's a common pick in Latin America because DBZ's insanely popular there. Sure the Smash Dojo - Sakurai's Brawl website - was translated in Spanish, but not everyone is going to read the Dojo or any other official Smash news sites.
R RetrogamerMax alludes to this, but again, some people are simply going to buy Smash games without even knowing that Sakurai said this or that.

Third, memes / clickbait / actual wishes - including mods and hacks. To use Goku as an example here, there are at least one popular moveset idea for him on Youtube. He's present in Smash Flash 2, and has been used both memetically and as clickbait (Alpharad used Goku as clickbait for Hero's reveal). The line between memes and actual wishes is also sometimes difficult to tell apart.

I think it's telling that the mere idea of 4th parties have been controversial around here, at least since Sakurai started announcing his stance on the matter. And not everyone even hearing of that.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Random thought, what if we get a 2nd fighter’s pass that focuses on returning franchises to Smash that got no new content in Ultimate besides spirits or costumes. This would include Sonic, Xenoblade, Punch Out, Final Fantasy, Kid Icarus, and others.

Not saying it is likely, but a fun mental exercise.

Characters could be:

1. Tails
2. Elma
3. Sandman
4. Sephiroth
5. Medusa

 

[RileyXY1]

You're not being greedy by wanting more than just the five fighters in the Fighter Pass.