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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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3BitSaurus

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Holy carp. This is something I thought I wouldn't see for awhile.
Guess we're finally getting Custom Colors a la Rivals of Aether.

You know, it's kinda sad that you can't really do these things for other characters without risking getting your Switch bricked. Would love some more Odyssey skins for Mario, armor sets for Link and so on.
 

P.Kat

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for a newcomer how would you guys feel about Kazuma Kiryu for a sega Rep
He'd be okay, but Id personally be more excited for Sakura.

Speaking of which...
Speaking of SEGA they uploaded a full version of their 60th anniversary Artwork and I think at least one of the characters on here will get in this pass (Except for Joker and Sonic Nintendo would never add either of them...)

Not only is Sakura Shinguji is in this picture but Sakura Amamiya too, Looks like we have our Sega pick for Smash... If only it was certain.

On that note I also can't wait for a new Sakura wars game too.
 

Captain Shwampy

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People sleep on Ryo Hazuki alot.
His fighting style is mix and match-up of multiple martial arts including moves by diffrent Virtua Fighter characters. He reps sega arcade selection and virtua fighter all in one.

I was thinking the same. They got a friggen Zombie Revenge character but not a SoR character!? Especially after how well received 4 has been? Weird as heck.
Good.
Zombie Revenge rules.

 

chocolatejr9

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Speaking of SEGA they uploaded a full version of their 60th anniversary Artwork and I think at least one of the characters on here will get in this pass (Except for Joker and Sonic Nintendo would never add either of them...)

Everytime they do one of these, the first thing I do is look for Billy Hatcher.

My disappointment is rather consistent...
 

SKX31

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So, after getting certain characters into Elite Smash do you just... not play as them anymore so then you don't have to run the risk of them falling out of Elite Smash?
While I'm not Scoliosis Jones, I can still offer my input (as someone who was borderline Elite Smash and has now gotten pretty high up in the Elite Smash ranks consistently):

FTR, I first entered Elite Smash September 30th 2019 - I've logged 5400 online games total, of which 1823 were Elite Smash matches as :ultcloud: . I was in Elite Smash limbo (described below) until about June / July, and since then I've only left ES very briefly due to an insane losing streak. Not just because it got easier to enter Elite Smash (see below), but also because I got more consistent. I've spent 355 hours just playing Quickplay Cloud. #Valueableuseofmytime.

Anyhow, pretty much everyone who does the "Every Character into Elite Smash" challenge "retires" most of the cast once everyone's in out of practicality / not wanting to lose the bragging rights. It's much, much easier for most people to focus on one or a couple characters. There are only a relative few (like Tweek) who can be really, really good with the entire cast and not have to worry about losing that.

I know that some who focus on one or a couple characters do that too because the Elite Smash border is a really hard one (I'd say too hard - IMHO it would be much better if Ultimate had something like Tekken's system of "Win 2 of the next 3 battles to win promotion into / avoid demotion out of Elite Smash") but a good general rule of thumb is "If you can get into Elite Smash in the first place, chanches are you can re-enter quickly too". At around the Elite Smash border you'll find more and more people who play seriously and will use the tricks they know, so it requires some consistency. Oh and not getting unlucky with the occassional jank ruleset.

The Elite Smash border is now the Top 6 % (as opposed to pre Patch 8.0, where it was the top 3,5 %) so it's a bit easier, but still.

It's not the biggest hassle to re-enter once one has done it (most of the time, barring any insane losing streaks), but that aformentioned hard border creates a limbo of sorts where those who are borderline keep bouncing in and out (Losing against a higher Elite Smash -> Winning vs. someone on Normal Quickplay -> Losing... lather, rinse, repeat.) That limbo is the primary reason IMO why they should've had Tekken's system instead re: the Elite Smash border.

for a newcomer how would you guys feel about Kazuma Kiryu for a sega Rep
Pretty good about him honestly. While I'm rather unfamiliar with the Yakuza series and he's not my preferred SEGA rep (that'd go to Arle for her sheer moveset potential) Kiryu could bring a lot with him such as unique fighting moves as well as really good music. So I would fully support his inclusion if it happened.
 
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epicmartin7

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Guess we're finally getting Custom Colors a la Rivals of Aether.

You know, it's kinda sad that you can't really do these things for other characters without risking getting your Switch bricked. Would love some more Odyssey skins for Mario, armor sets for Link and so on.
New character skins are totally possible for other fighters! Just, right now, you have to replace existing skins in order for them to work. There's also no brick risk involved. All stuff is loaded from the SD Card, meaning that it doesn't even touch your switch at all.
 

Rie Sonomura

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New character skins are totally possible for other fighters! Just, right now, you have to replace existing skins in order for them to work. There's also no brick risk involved. All stuff is loaded from the SD Card, meaning that it doesn't even touch your switch at all.
Can’t you get a console ban tho?
 

SharkLord

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He'd be okay, but Id personally be more excited for Sakura.

Speaking of which...

Not only is Sakura Shinguji is in this picture but Sakura Amamiya too, Looks like we have our Sega pick for Smash... If only it was certain.

On that note I also can't wait for a new Sakura wars game too.
On that note, I've been wondering if it's possible to have Sakura fight in a scaled-down version of her mech (Mechs? Dunno if she goes through different models or if she sticks to the same one the whole way through). Most of the ideas I've seen have her on foot because the mechs are too big, which makes sense, seeing as Captain Falcon and the Star Fox crew fight on foot instead of the vehicles, but Sakura's mech can actually fight. Maybe scale it down to about Ridley size, maybe a bit larger. I know Ridley is pretty big himself, but Smash has always been a game about one-upping; Just ask Byleth. Then again, I know very little about the actual gameplay of the series, so I don't think I'm really qualified to say.
 

chocolatejr9

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Hey, while I was browsing the Geno thread again, I noticed that apparently there's a rumor that Nintendo is going even harder on leakers. Apparently, they didn't like stuff like the Mario Direct and the Partner Showcase being leaked, so they're going all out against leaks. Is anybody able to collaborate on this? Because if that's true, we're gonna be in a rather... odd predicament soon enough.
 

3BitSaurus

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New character skins are totally possible for other fighters! Just, right now, you have to replace existing skins in order for them to work. There's also no brick risk involved. All stuff is loaded from the SD Card, meaning that it doesn't even touch your switch at all.
Huh. Thought you'd get an online ban or something, at least, and a full brick at worst.

If not... then I might pay a visit to a few modding forums some years down the line.
 

cashregister9

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On that note, I've been wondering if it's possible to have Sakura fight in a scaled-down version of her mech (Mechs? Dunno if she goes through different models or if she sticks to the same one the whole way through). Most of the ideas I've seen have her on foot because the mechs are too big, which makes sense, seeing as Captain Falcon and the Star Fox crew fight on foot instead of the vehicles, but Sakura's mech can actually fight. Maybe scale it down to about Ridley size, maybe a bit larger. I know Ridley is pretty big himself, but Smash has always been a game about one-upping; Just ask Byleth. Then again, I know very little about the actual gameplay of the series, so I don't think I'm really qualified to say.
In the main Sakura Wars games the Sakura's fight inside the mechs which theoretically could be scaled down

In crossovers like Project X Zone or Star Ocean they are usually seen outside of the mechs using the abilities they normally would while inside the mechs

I have no clue how Sakurai would handle it if Sakura comes to smash
 
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JCKirbs

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While I'm not Scoliosis Jones, I can still offer my input (as someone who was borderline Elite Smash and has now gotten pretty high up in the Elite Smash ranks consistently):

FTR, I first entered Elite Smash September 30th 2019 - I've logged 5400 online games total, of which 1823 were Elite Smash matches as :ultcloud: . I was in Elite Smash limbo (described below) until about June / July, and since then I've only left ES very briefly due to an insane losing streak. Not just because it got easier to enter Elite Smash (see below), but also because I got more consistent. I've spent 355 hours just playing Quickplay Cloud. #Valueableuseofmytime.

Anyhow, pretty much everyone who does the "Every Character into Elite Smash" challenge "retires" most of the cast once everyone's in out of practicality / not wanting to lose the bragging rights. It's much, much easier for most people to focus on one or a couple characters. There are only a relative few (like Tweek) who can be really, really good with the entire cast and not have to worry about losing that.

I know that some who focus on one or a couple characters do that too because the Elite Smash border is a really hard one (I'd say too hard - IMHO it would be much better if Ultimate had something like Tekken's system of "Win 2 of the next 3 battles to win promotion into / avoid demotion out of Elite Smash") but a good general rule of thumb is "If you can get into Elite Smash in the first place, chanches are you can re-enter quickly too". At around the Elite Smash border you'll find more and more people who play seriously and will use the tricks they know, so it requires some consistency. Oh and not getting unlucky with the occassional jank ruleset.

The Elite Smash border is now the Top 6 % (as opposed to pre Patch 8.0, where it was the top 3,5 %) so it's a bit easier, but still.

It's not the biggest hassle to re-enter once one has done it (most of the time, barring any insane losing streaks), but that aformentioned hard border creates a limbo of sorts where those who are borderline keep bouncing in and out (Losing against a higher Elite Smash -> Winning vs. someone on Normal Quickplay -> Losing... lather, rinse, repeat.) That limbo is the primary reason IMO why they should've had Tekken's system instead re: the Elite Smash border.
I see... thanks for the additional insight!
 

Captain Shwampy

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On that note, I've been wondering if it's possible to have Sakura fight in a scaled-down version of her mech (Mechs? Dunno if she goes through different models or if she sticks to the same one the whole way through). Most of the ideas I've seen have her on foot because the mechs are too big, which makes sense, seeing as Captain Falcon and the Star Fox crew fight on foot instead of the vehicles, but Sakura's mech can actually fight. Maybe scale it down to about Ridley size, maybe a bit larger. I know Ridley is pretty big himself, but Smash has always been a game about one-upping; Just ask Byleth. Then again, I know very little about the actual gameplay of the series, so I don't think I'm really qualified to say.
Koubu's are honestly not THAT huge
embed0116.jpg
 

Perkilator

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In the main Sakura Wars games the Sakura's fight inside the mechs which theoretically could be scaled down

In crossovers like Project X Zone or Star Ocean they are usually seen outside of the mechs using the abilities they normally would while inside the mechs

I have no clue how Sakurai would handle it if Sakura comes to smash
Probably on foot, with the mech attacking as a Final Smash.

A small detail, but I just noticed: isn’t the name, Sakurai actually Sakura with an added “I”? Nothing important, but couldn’t help but notice.
If Sakurai doesn’t make a joke about that in Sakura’s hypothetical presentation, imma be disappointed.
 

epicmartin7

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Can’t you get a console ban tho?
Huh. Thought you'd get an online ban or something, at least, and a full brick at worst.

If not... then I might pay a visit to a few modding forums some years down the line.
I'm going to be transparent... there's not really a known consensus when it comes to bans. However, here is a list of compiled things that may heighten a ban risk.

Ban Risk:
Instant ban:
• Piracy of any sort
• Homebrew nsps
• Changing user icon through homebrew
• Sketchy eShop behavior

Not so instant ban, but still a ban:
• Modding online games, except in very niche circumstances
• Cheating in online games
• Clearing error logs after they've been uploaded to Nintendo (this may extend to using both emummc and sysmmc online, due to mismatched logs)

Not a ban, so far:
• Atmosphere itself
• Homebrew
• Custom themes
• Custom sysmodules (sys-ftpd-light, etc.)
• Mods/cheating in offline games
• Overclocking with sys-clk (just don't do it competitively, for all of our sakes)
• emummc

We just don't know enough yet:
• Screwing with PRODINFO, but NOT committing bannable offenses
• Using the experimental PRODINFO dummying included in Atmosphere 0.11.2 and later.

Credits to Val#8035 on Discord for this list.

Bans are an interesting topic within the Smash Ultimate modding scene because some of the heads of the scene have been using mods while still connected to wifi and still haven't gotten some sort of ban. Now, of course, some stuff varies, like if they went into Smash Ultimate online itself with mods or not... but on the whole, some have found success with keeping an online connection without getting banned.

Of course, there are those who have gotten banned because they've gone online with Giga Bowser, or uploaded Smash World replays with mods in them.

So... TL;DR as long as you don't go online hacking others matches with characters and stages others don't have... you should be relatively fine in practice.

But... of course, as mentioned previously, there's not really a consensus on this. So there's nothing I can really say in confidence, just some slight precedent.
 

Hinata

Never forget, a believing heart is your magic.
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New character skins are totally possible for other fighters! Just, right now, you have to replace existing skins in order for them to work. There's also no brick risk involved. All stuff is loaded from the SD Card, meaning that it doesn't even touch your switch at all.
I just want to add onto this statement; Smash mods themselves cannot brick your system because, as stated, they are all loaded off the SD card. However, hacking your Switch to give it the homebrew it needs to run Smash mods CAN brick your system.

It's very rare because Switch hacking is pretty far along right now, but the possibility is there if you don't know what you're doing. Proceed with caution.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I'm going to be transparent... there's not really a known consensus when it comes to bans. However, here is a list of compiled things that may heighten a ban risk.

Ban Risk:
Instant ban:
• Piracy of any sort
• Homebrew nsps
• Changing user icon through homebrew
• Sketchy eShop behavior

Not so instant ban, but still a ban:
• Modding online games, except in very niche circumstances
• Cheating in online games
• Clearing error logs after they've been uploaded to Nintendo (this may extend to using both emummc and sysmmc online, due to mismatched logs)

Not a ban, so far:
• Atmosphere itself
• Homebrew
• Custom themes
• Custom sysmodules (sys-ftpd-light, etc.)
• Mods/cheating in offline games
• Overclocking with sys-clk (just don't do it competitively, for all of our sakes)
• emummc

We just don't know enough yet:
• Screwing with PRODINFO, but NOT committing bannable offenses
• Using the experimental PRODINFO dummying included in Atmosphere 0.11.2 and later.

Credits to Val#8035 on Discord for this list.

Bans are an interesting topic within the Smash Ultimate modding scene because some of the heads of the scene have been using mods while still connected to wifi and still haven't gotten some sort of ban. Now, of course, some stuff varies, like if they went into Smash Ultimate online itself with mods or not... but on the whole, some have found success with keeping an online connection without getting banned.

Of course, there are those who have gotten banned because they've gone online with Giga Bowser, or uploaded Smash World replays with mods in them.

So... TL;DR as long as you don't go online hacking others matches with characters and stages others don't have... you should be relatively fine in practice.

But... of course, as mentioned previously, there's not really a consensus on this. So there's nothing I can really say in confidence, just some slight precedent.
raises hand I have a question

what the frick is an nsp
 

Hinata

Never forget, a believing heart is your magic.
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raises hand I have a question

what the frick is an nsp
Switch roms, essentially. With certain homebrew apps, you can pirate games using .nsp files by installing them directly to your Switch itself.

And that's all I'll say about that because piracy is very bad, kiddos.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Nintendo Switch Program/Package.
so basically, no games that don't officially exist in the eShop?

edit also no pirating official games? i plan on purchasing anything i want anyway so no worries there

as evidenced by my spending problems since my mid-20s
 
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epicmartin7

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so basically, no games that don't officially exist in the eShop?

edit also no pirating official games? i plan on purchasing anything i want anyway so no worries there
basically installing homebrew as if it were a commerical game can net you a ban. as long as you use atmosphere's built-in homebrew launcher, you should be fine.
 

SKX31

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Never cared about Elite Smash, myself. Does it even mean anything to the Smash competitive community?
Not really. Two major problems with Quickplay are that A) Both players need to agree on a rematch, assuming 1 on 1s / Doubles. Quickplay FFAs are even messier. And B) One can't switch characters during a rematch unlike For Glory, leading to a lot of one-and-dones. Also, people who bolt when they lose once or get one W then quit.

GSP is also rather meaningless: its only use is to establish a very, very rough guideline of how good one is with a character. That's especially a problem when GSP is the sole criteria for Elite Smash. Also, one can have top-level GSP playing Hazards On S-Flag (the +1 life flag) Final Smash meter 3 minutes 3 stocks - which makes GSP even more meaningless.

Those aformentioned problems are not as big in Elite Smash where ca. 90 % of people will agree to at least a BO3 (I've had even up to BO7s), but they're still present and main reasons why the competitive scene in general does not bother.

Anyhow, the competitive community vastly prefers playing Offline (if feasible). Locals are the low-key cornerstones of the competitive scene, and it scales up to National / International tournaments. Arenas (organized via Discord servers, Anthers Ladder etc.) are the choice if one plays Online. For example:


New character skins are totally possible for other fighters! Just, right now, you have to replace existing skins in order for them to work. There's also no brick risk involved. All stuff is loaded from the SD Card, meaning that it doesn't even touch your switch at all.
It's a massive shame that one has to replace existing skins to do so. Sure, Sakurai and co. likely did it for storage reasons... but there's tons of demand for additional alt costumes for characters that are not the Miis. There's so much demand I'm pretty confident that Nintendo could get away with selling a more proper OoT / TP Link skin for dirt-cheap and still make tons of money out of those. Alongside numerous other costume / skin ideas.
 
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SharkLord

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Koubu's are honestly not THAT huge
View attachment 289299
Interesting... Perhaps we won't have to scale it down after all.

On that note, how many female heavyweights do we have? I think it's Samus and that's it, right? Well, maybe Wendy too, if we're counting alts... Assuming Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings are heavyweights in the first place. I'll have to double-check.
 

CapitaineCrash

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Speaking of SEGA they uploaded a full version of their 60th anniversary Artwork and I think at least one of the characters on here will get in this pass (Except for Joker and Sonic Nintendo would never add either of them...)

There's a lot of characters I don't recognize, but if I'm correct there's no Streets of rage character here. That's surprising considering the success of Streets of rage 4. Maybe it was too recent and the image was planned on advance.

I'm kind of sad that there's no Monkey ball representation here. I know the franchise is dead, but I feel like it was important enough to at least be here.

Also, both Yakuza and Puyo puyo have 2 characters in this image. Sonic have 4 characters and Persona have 3. I think that the more characters a franchise have here, the more it's important to Sega. That being said, Space Chanel 5 also have 2 characters here so maybe I'm just reading it too hard.

for a newcomer how would you guys feel about Kazuma Kiryu for a sega Rep
I'd be happy with him. I never played Yakuza (although I bought 0, I'm just waiting when I will have more time to play it). He looks like a super fun character.

Interesting... Perhaps we won't have to scale it down after all.

On that note, how many female heavyweights do we have? I think it's Samus and that's it, right? Well, maybe Wendy too, if we're counting alts... Assuming Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings are heavyweights in the first place. I'll have to double-check.
Samus and Bowser jr./ Koppalings are the same size.
 

Perkilator

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Interesting... Perhaps we won't have to scale it down after all.

On that note, how many female heavyweights do we have? I think it's Samus and that's it, right? Well, maybe Wendy too, if we're counting alts... Assuming Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings are heavyweights in the first place. I'll have to double-check.
In that case, maybe Sakura’s gimmick would be using Shield and B to switch between fighting in the Koubu and fighting on foot?
 

Captain Shwampy

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There's a lot of characters I don't recognize, but if I'm correct there's no Streets of rage character here. That's surprising considering the success of Streets of rage 4. Maybe it was too recent and the image was planned on advance.

I'm kind of sad that there's no Monkey ball representation here. I know the franchise is dead, but I feel like it was important enough to at least be here.

Also, both Yakuza and Puyo puyo have 2 characters in this image. Sonic have 4 characters and Persona have 3. I think that the more characters a franchise have here, the more it's important to Sega. That being said, Space Chanel 5 also have 2 characters here so maybe I'm just reading it too hard.
There's like 5 Phantasy star characters in the pic
 

Calane

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There's a lot of characters I don't recognize, but if I'm correct there's no Streets of rage character here. That's surprising considering the success of Streets of rage 4. Maybe it was too recent and the image was planned on advance.

I'm kind of sad that there's no Monkey ball representation here. I know the franchise is dead, but I feel like it was important enough to at least be here.

Also, both Yakuza and Puyo puyo have 2 characters in this image. Sonic have 4 characters and Persona have 3. I think that the more characters a franchise have here, the more it's important to Sega. That being said, Space Chanel 5 also have 2 characters here so maybe I'm just reading it too hard.
There's actually 3 Puyo Puyo characters in that image.
 
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