Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

I could certainly see her, yes - to the point I'd argue she's one of LoL's frontrunners if that game gets a spot. One could also lenghten her skirt / give her shorts as you said - especially since it seems like Riot has already been willing to alter her outfit or even redesign her with the alts. The thing that strikes me the most in her favor is that she could come with a new mechanic - not just LoL's Summoner's Spells or anything like that, but also her Orb of Deception (which could work as a unique spin on Luma) and Charm spell.

Do remember that Glitch Theory, at least to me, is not really substantiated. Neither Sakurai nor his team will ever confirm it no, but it's still not on the steadiest of grounds because it relies on character development causing glitches in already-released characters. It could, but it's really difficult without direct verification.

Still, some of Min Min's animations resemble Bayo's, yes. I kinda think that her jab combo's kind of alika Bayo's F Tilt chain (although altered). Min Min's Up Smash looks like Fox's Up Smash the most, although there's a comparision to be made animation-wise with Bayo's Witch Time animation. Steve's D Tilt seemingly works like PK Fire in that it travels down while in the air and is apparently a multi-hit. It's not direct confirmation of anything, though.

I do want to believe that Glitch Theory is right and Ahri's connected to Daisy, but lets not put the cart before the horse just yet. Well just have to seel if it's true or not.



KJ64 is not played in competitive due to the wonky slants (see Rekzius' discussion on why certain stages are banned in competitive), but the AC stages are relevant to the discussion as Cutie Gwen said. The gathering rate's going to be interesting, we'll just have to see if the difference is stark enough between the AC stages (wood) and Lylat (iron) to really matter.

As I've said previously, Competitive Steve is going to be such a mess and I can't wait to see it.



B-b-bbut Cloud's proved that the World is Square(soft's)!

I just saw her Wild Rift design and it is LITERALLY perfect for Smash, no complaints from CERO here

the Fox Fire one looks cooler in WR too

now for the impossible K/DA skin dream...

 

[cmbsfm]

I would've liked to have seen one of Steve's alts be the Master Chief skin.

Just for general chaos reasons.

Ha, just like that fake 5chan leak said.

 

[RGFS]

I really hate to play this card but there are just some M rated games that will never be in Smash. GTA and MK are two of those games. You can bring up Bayonetta and Snake all you want, but these are staunchly different circumstances with different reasoning for their inclusion.

I get what you mean, and thanks for saying it because that's what I said when I jinxed Bayonetta into the series. I would argue MK is completely screwed from a Smash initiation because of its lack of Japanese popularity. It's so unpopular that MK 11 didn't even release there. GTA V broke sales records for the series then set by Vice City and is pretty popular overall there. All you would need to represent GTA fully would be the characters, weaponry, and city. All that is either already in Smash or toned down in some form like how Bayonetta never gets fully naked fighting like she does in her games. Snake never says any bad words or bleeds. Another decent example is how so many MGS spirits have real guns and how Joker carries a real one too.

I'm not saying this character has been confirmed, but like Doom Slayer, the M rating isn't really what would hurt their chances in a universe where the impact of hits is so fantastical. Even if they don't become fighters, their series have a solid shot of becoming a Mii costume like Travis, Vault Boy, and Altaiir.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I would've liked to have seen one of Steve's alts be the Master Chief skin.

Just for general chaos reasons.

I like how chaotic natural you are

 

[N3ON]

Peoples' compulsion to try and detect patterns and commonalities is going to get them blindsided later in this pass, I'm sure. You'd think we've been thrown enough wrenches to learn not to box ourselves in or gauge future additions based solely on the most recent ones.

The moment you try to prescribe a framework to which all future DLC will adhere (past just being gaming characters) is the moment you've ****ed up. The only predictable thing is unpredictability. And the fanbase getting upset.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hey guys. Steve uses multiple weapons in his normals and he's not even remotely similar to Byleth.

I hope saying this doesn't make me sound like a prick, but I don't wanna see Monster Hunter = Byleth arguments anymore. It's not true.

 

[N3ON]

Hey guys. Steve uses multiple weapons in his normals and he's not even remotely similar to Byleth.

I hope saying this doesn't make me sound like a prick, but I don't wanna see Monster Hunter = Byleth arguments anymore. It's not true.

No, now it's Monster Hunter = Steve

 

[Shroob]

Hey guys. Steve uses multiple weapons in his normals and he's not even remotely similar to Byleth.

I hope saying this doesn't make me sound like a prick, but I don't wanna see Monster Hunter = Byleth arguments anymore. It's not true.

Man

Reminds me of Brawl era


"Megaman would be a clone of Samus because arm cannon"


Yes, this sadly was a common thought process back then.

 

[Eldrake]

If E3 2019 didn't announce Banjo & Kazooie, I swear people would be claiming that FP1 would be only JRPG characters because of patterns.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

No, now it's Monster Hunter = Steve

Crap, you're right! Maybe it's for the best they didn't add them. That charged greatsword attack is way too powerful to be attached to a character with building mechanics, even if the attack breaks the weapon in one use.

Man

Reminds me of Brawl era


"Megaman would be a clone of Samus because arm cannon"


Yes, this sadly was a common thought process back then.

And then there was me arguing irl that Mega Man would beat Samus because he had more weapons. lol

 

[PeridotGX]

(what happened to the image uploader? Ever since the minor update, it can't upload big images. I've had to create a discord server where I upload images and paste them here, which is really annoying)

after the reveal of Steve, I re-evaluated my prediction roster. While it technically didn't need redone (Steve was already there), my opinions on a few things have changed. My new guiding principle, above all else, is that Nintendo and Sakurai are going for characters that heavily change the way the game is played. I don't think they're going for characters based solely on that, but it's definitely something they're focused on. Min Min's ARM gimmick is unlike anything else on the roster, and Steve is a terraformer, one of the few archetypes Smash lacked (along with a slew of other things). Without further adou...

Omissions from previous prediction roster:

• Waluigi. If we were getting another Mario DLC fighter, it would've happened before the big Mario tournament in November.
• Pokemon. I can't think of a Pokemon who would change the game so dramatically

Reasonings:

Rex: Xenoblade is a series Nintendo wants to keep interest in, Sakurai wanted him in base, same spiel people have been saying for years. The unique gameplay possibility is the blade system. Rex could switch blades mid battle, and they would have different effects (I think, I never played XB2). We have characters with major moveset changes, but I don't think there are any with minor moveset changes.​

​

Bravely Default rep: Bravely Default is a Square Enix series that Nintendo has made a big deal of promoting, sound familiar? The unique gameplay possibility would be the job system, effectively being a stance change character.​

​

Acfat-bPCog: I feel like there's a decent shot at both Tf2 and LoL getting represented in Smash, and I decied to go with a catchall term to describe both, as well as similar games like Overwatch. The unique gameplay possibility? Some characters are primarily built for FFas, some are built for 1v1, this character would be the first to be best in a team battle. I could see them going with a support character for this very reason.​

​

these last two are much more flimsy.

​

Chell: Portal and Portal 2 are some of the most popular games of the 2000's. Valve also might get some benefit from a Nintendo partnership, as most Nintendo fans are console-only, having a PC(/Xbox) exclusive series in Smash would encourage them to get a Steam account. As for the Unique gameplay possibility: Potals. Need I say more?​

​

Frisk: Yeah yeah yeah, I know the Sans costum exists. But I have a bit of a crazy crackpot theory that says that the Sans costume sold so well they decided to add Frisk to the second pass (which is why there are 6 characters instead of 5), The unique gameplay experience? Alternate win conditions. Sure, you could damage and kill your enemies the traditional way, but why not have a friendly chat and SPARE them?​

​

Will I be wrong?

 

[Shroob]

Heyo

Ya want a really ****ed theory?


Multi weapons theory


Go

 

[Blargg888]

Man

Reminds me of Brawl era


"Megaman would be a clone of Samus because arm cannon"


Yes, this sadly was a common thought process back then.

Older Smash speculation had some weird stipulations.

Remember "PAC-MAN can't get in because he's not important enough"?

I do, and I wish I didn't.

 

[N3ON]

Older Smash speculation had some weird stipulations.

Remember "PAC-MAN can't get in because he's not important enough"?

I do, and I wish I didn't.

I don't think that one was very common.

Moveset potential and appearance was a much greater bone of contention.

If E3 2019 didn't announce Banjo & Kazooie, I swear people would be claiming that FP1 would be only JRPG characters because of patterns.

If it weren't for Banjo it would've taken until a few days ago for some people to accept western IP could be on the roster.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I hope Bomberman's Costume has set a precedent of allowing for various palettes on certain future characters. How awesome would it be to get a Shovel Knight Sword Fighter and in numerous colors to boot?

 

[Calamitas]

Rex: [...] Sakurai wanted him in base

Still ain't true. Sakurai only ever said that he was too late too even be considered.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Man

Reminds me of Brawl era


"Megaman would be a clone of Samus because arm cannon"


Yes, this sadly was a common thought process back then.

Reminds me of how people say that Geno would be the same or similar to Mega Man or Mii Gunner lol.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Heyo

Ya want a really ****ed theory?


Multi weapons theory


Go

This is how Gilgamesh wins

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Still ain't true. Sakurai only ever said that he was too late too even be considered.

Didn't Sakurai say that he really liked Xenoblade 2 though?

 

[Blargg888]

I don't think that one was very common.

Moveset potential and appearance was a much greater bone of contention.


If it weren't for Banjo it would've taken until a few days ago for some people to accept western IP could be on the roster.

Perhaps not common, true, but it's the one that has always jutted out in my memory the most. Mostly from just how absurd it was.

 

[cosmicB]

No M theory is definitely more viable now. The weird justifications about Assassin's Creed and Fallout having inappropriate words in the title goes out the window with an innocuous title like No More Heroes. The censored title cards are 100% because of ESRB nonsense and rated presentations.

I guess the workaround could be to maintain that degree of censorship ("Dante from the Dante series joins the battle!"), and not show any source gameplay. Music theoretically wouldn't be an issue because they would be arrangements and thus transformative.

Like, I can't imagine Sakurai would have scrapped a planned character over a sudden change in ESRB policy with presentations, especially when it only affects one region. Nintendo just might bite the bullet and push for an E-M presentation, which is something they've done before.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Didn't Sakurai say that he really liked Xenoblade 2 though?

Yes, but the Elma cult needs to overstate her chances by any means necessary. Even if Rex does get in (He will), they'll still think they're gonna make Elma a fighter to promote that XCX port that's totally in the works.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Heyo

Ya want a really ****ed theory?


Multi weapons theory


Go

I mean Elma uses twin swords, twin guns and a mech...

oh crap literally all my remaining pass 2 predictions fit this (if you count Ahri’s different magic forms as different “weapons”)

Yes, but the Elma cult needs to overstate her chances by any means necessary. Even if Rex does get in (He will), they'll still think they're gonna make Elma a fighter to promote that XCX port that's totally in the works.

See there’s your problem, you say we’re a cult that overstates her chances, and yet youre literally acting like Rex is a lock

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Wait am I missing something? Why does dodging the age rating for Mii Costumes mean there’s an M-rated character coming to Smash?

 

[I.D.]

Still ain't true. Sakurai only ever said that he was too late too even be considered.

His specific wording was that it was "unnatural for ARMS and Xenoblade 2 to not have a fighter" after talking about Inkling being an obvious inclusion.

 

[Calamitas]

Didn't Sakurai say that he really liked Xenoblade 2 though?

Sure. But that and saying that he actively wants him on the base roster are two seperate things.

 

[3BitSaurus]

You know what

SCREW IT

if E3 would have had Steve (FP7) AND FP8 as a dual reveal I’m calling that both would be ABSURDLY HUGE worldwide

thats right I’m putting my chips on FP8 being from LoL and the HK costume coming with them

would also work ABSURDLY well as a TGA reveal too, not that I’m counting on that happening

Not putting all my eggs on that one basket - but it is possible. Remember - we've had a Smash announcement at TGA 2018 and three Riot announcements at TGA 2019. So there's some precedent for both, at least.

If Minecraft's reveal showed us anything, it's that an addition of that magnitude would probably also break social media. Especially in China and Korea.

In fact

after much thought I’m feeling Ahri specifically uh... phrasing?

Extremely popular, can easily censor her outfit (just put a black void under her skirt or give her shorts), a Star Guardian alt at the very least (I COULD see K/DA if they don’t include the song or make it instrumental only idk)

and YMMV rambling from this point onward
I think Glitch Theory, at least for borrowed animations/properties if not full base may have some precedent. I definitely think Min Min borrowed some animations from Bayonetta despite using CF as a base, and Sakurai compared Steve’s Flint move to PK Fire, thus I guess that might explain Ness’s eyes disappearing. I THINK PK Fire might have triggered that if so

and the Daisy glitch? Starting to think that could be related to Ahri somehow

I could certainly see her, yes - to the point I'd argue she's one of LoL's frontrunners if that game gets a spot. One could also lenghten her skirt / give her shorts as you said - especially since it seems like Riot has already been willing to alter her outfit or even redesign her with the alts. The thing that strikes me the most in her favor is that she could come with a new mechanic - not just LoL's Summoner's Spells or anything like that, but also her Orb of Deception (which could work as a unique spin on Luma) and Charm spell.

Do remember that Glitch Theory, at least to me, is not really substantiated. Neither Sakurai nor his team will ever confirm it no, but it's still not on the steadiest of grounds because it relies on character development causing glitches in already-released characters. It could, but it's really difficult without direct verification.

Still, some of Min Min's animations resemble Bayo's, yes. I kinda think that her jab combo's kind of alika Bayo's F Tilt chain (although altered). Min Min's Up Smash looks like Fox's Up Smash the most, although there's a comparision to be made animation-wise with Bayo's Witch Time animation. Steve's D Tilt seemingly works like PK Fire in that it travels down while in the air and is apparently a multi-hit. It's not direct confirmation of anything, though.

I do want to believe that Glitch Theory is right and Ahri's connected to Daisy, but lets not put the cart before the horse just yet. Well just have to seel if it's true or not.

I just saw her Wild Rift design and it is LITERALLY perfect for Smash, no complaints from CERO here

the Fox Fire one looks cooler in WR too

now for the impossible K/DA skin dream...

It's very possible, yes. The Wild Rift design is pretty much what I think would happen if she was chosen. Even if I don't really believe in glitch theory or anything. And Rie, which K/DA skin are you referring to? She's about to get another one, remember?

As cool as Ahri would be, I'd actually be gunning for Taliyah, I have @KatKit to thank for that for showing off a great moveset for her. But I'm down for Ahri too. Also how do you do that particular spoiler feature?

Seeing how people reacted to Steve terraforming today... imagine Weaver's Wall as a special move. Imagine a wall that covers a HUGE area, doesn't go away for a full 5 seconds or so and can only be interrupted if you hit Taliyah herself (and not the wall).

Have fun.

But seriously, she could be fun if done right, too. Taliyah has had an interesting history, going from mid lane to jungler mage, but at this point I'm just rambling. Only issue is that she's not exactly popular in the fanbase...

FP1 was given a 12 rating in Brazil while FP2 only got a 10.

Take it from a brazilian: that means nothing.

All I'm going to say is that I'm shocked that the Banjo VS Steve wars haven't been resurrected from what I've seen. Given how intense those debates got, it feels like they should've erupted once again, even with both of them in now.

Why debate when we can just settle it in Smash?

Though I guess TheCJBrine wanted both, so I suppose he has to play against himself now.

EDIT: Holy response overload, man, I didn't think it was this long.

 

[N3ON]

No M theory is definitely more viable now. The weird justifications about Assassin's Creed and Fallout having inappropriate words in the title goes out the window with an innocuous title like No More Heroes. The censored title cards are 100% because of ESRB nonsense and rated presentations.

I guess the workaround could be to maintain that degree of censorship ("Dante from the Dante series joins the battle!"), and not show any source gameplay. Music theoretically wouldn't be an issue because they would be arrangements and thus transformative.

Like, I can't imagine Sakurai would have scrapped a planned character over a sudden change in ESRB policy with presentations, especially when it only affects one region. Nintendo just might bite the bullet and push for an E-M presentation, which is something they've done before.

The strangest part is the logos still exist in the game. In Ultimate, you can see logos for Persona 5 and Bayo and the like when you scroll over their respective stages, and the game retains its E10 rating.

Perhaps they've been grandfathered past the new restrictions, but it makes you wonder if that applies to all of in-game Ultimate, including future content, or just the DLC that arrived before the ESRB changed its policies.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Not putting all my eggs on that one basket - but it is possible. Remember - we've had a Smash announcement at TGA 2018 and three Riot announcements at TGA 2019. So there's some precedent for both, at least.

If Minecraft's reveal showed us anything, it's that an addition of that magnitude would probably also break social media. Especially in China and Korea.







It's very possible, yes. The Wild Rift design is pretty much what I think would happen if she was chosen. Even if I don't really believe in glitch theory or anything. And Rie, which K/DA skin are you referring to? She's about to get another one, remember?



Seeing how people reacted to Steve terraforming today... imagine Weaver's Wall as a special move. Imagine a wall that covers a HUGE area, doesn't go away for a full 5 seconds or so and can only be interrupted if you hit Taliyah herself (and not the wall).

Have fun.

But seriously, she could be fun if done right, too. Taliyah has had an interesting history, going from mid lane to jungler mage, but at this point I'm just rambling. Only issue is that she's not exactly popular in the fanbase...



Take it from a brazilian: that means nothing.



Why debate when we can just settle it in Smash?

Though I guess TheCJBrine wanted both, so I suppose he has to play against himself now.

EDIT: Holy response overload, man, I didn't think it was this long.

Which K/DA skin?

Yes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Didn't Sakurai say that he really liked Xenoblade 2 though?

This is relevant how? The point was that Rex flat out wasn't considered as confirmed by Sakurai himself due to XB2 being too late for the 2015 project plan despite the constant claiming that he was

Yes, but the Elma cult needs to overstate her chances by any means necessary. Even if Rex does get in (He will), they'll still think they're gonna make Elma a fighter to promote that XCX port that's totally in the works.

Bruh not only was Elma not mentioned at all, but Calam didn't even say anything even remotely opinionated

 

[I.D.]

This is relevant how? The point was that Rex flat out wasn't considered as confirmed by Sakurai himself due to XB2 being too late for the 2015 project plan despite the constant claiming that he was

Not being part of the plan != Not being considered.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Wait if Steve was in the works for five years then what would’ve happened if there was no Fighters Pass 2?

 

[Megadoomer]

Wait am I missing something? Why does dodging the age rating for Mii Costumes mean there’s an M-rated character coming to Smash?

There was seemingly some kind of change to ESRB policies between Terry's release and Byleth's release. When Byleth came out, all of the series logos were removed from the top of the Fighters Pass in the North American Directs (they still were shown in Europe, Japan, and (as far as I know) all other regions), and for Mii costumes in North America, we get things like Smash Bros. x Altair and Smash Bros. x Travis as opposed to Smash Bros. x Assassin's Creed or Smash Bros. x No More Heroes. (the actual series logos are shown in other regions)

Presumably, the ESRB doesn't like the idea of promoting M-rated games by name in videos for games that aren't rated M, or something like that. The logos are also absent from the list of the Fighters Pass 2 characters in North America, which seems to imply that one of them comes from an M-rated game.

 

[I.D.]

Wait if Steve was in the works for five years then what would’ve happened if there was no Fighters Pass 2?

He wouldn't be in the game, obviously. I suspect those negotiations coming to fruition might have been a big incentive for FP2 in the first place.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

There was seemingly some kind of change to ESRB policies between Terry's release and Byleth's release. When Byleth came out, all of the series logos were removed from the top of the Fighters Pass in the North American Directs (they still were shown in Europe, Japan, and (as far as I know) all other regions), and for Mii costumes in North America, we get things like Smash Bros. x Altair and Smash Bros. x Travis as opposed to Smash Bros. x Assassin's Creed or Smash Bros. x No More Heroes. (the actual series logos are shown in other regions)

Presumably, the ESRB doesn't like the idea of promoting M-rated games in videos for games that aren't rated M, or something like that. The logos are also absent from the list of the Fighters Pass 2 characters in North America, which seems to imply that one of them comes from an M-rated game.

Aaaah I see. I knew about M-Theory but not about the implications it had for Fighters Pass 2. That makes sense

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait if Steve was in the works for five years then what would’ve happened if there was no Fighters Pass 2?

Then the plans would have fell through and Steve wouldn't happen. Steve wasn't worked on for 5 years, negotiations were what took so goddamn long. At worst, Steve took like idk a month or two longer than most DLC characters take to make.

 

[PeridotGX]

Still ain't true. Sakurai only ever said that he was too late too even be considered.

fair enough. I interpreted it as "I would've liked to add an Arms character and Mr. Xeno Blade the second, but the timeline didn't line up" but it's not definite.

(I feel it's worth adding that I have absolutely no stakes in the Xenoblade series. I own Definitive Edition and that's it.(

 

[Shroob]

There was seemingly some kind of change to ESRB policies between Terry's release and Byleth's release. When Byleth came out, all of the series logos were removed from the top of the Fighters Pass in the North American Directs (they still were shown in Europe, Japan, and (as far as I know) all other regions), and for Mii costumes in North America, we get things like Smash Bros. x Altair and Smash Bros. x Travis as opposed to Smash Bros. x Assassin's Creed or Smash Bros. x No More Heroes. (the actual series logos are shown in other regions)

Presumably, the ESRB doesn't like the idea of promoting M-rated games by name in videos for games that aren't rated M, or something like that. The logos are also absent from the list of the Fighters Pass 2 characters in North America, which seems to imply that one of them comes from an M-rated game.

Hyabusa or Dante time let's go

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Seems like that M theory looks to be true. I can't wait for Smash Bros featuring Dante from the Dante series.

Watch we get Ryu Hayabusa instead.

 

[Calamitas]

Not being part of the plan != Not being considered.

Okay, but why would he be considered? We know that Smash games rarely deviate from their project plan, with the only real known exception being Sonic in Brawl. By the time that 2 was out, I'm pretty sure that Ultimate was way too far into its development to even consider someone like him.
Unless you're referring to the first Fighter Pass, in which case, fair enough.

Bruh not only was Elma not mentioned at all, but Calam didn't even say anything even remotely opinionated

There's no need to entertain him. Just move on.