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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Megadoomer

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I'm at the point where Steve's Create Block special is being shown off. I'm assuming that there's some sort of downside that hasn't been mentioned yet, but based on what I've seen so far, I'm reminded a bit too much of Steve's gameplay in Super Meat Boy, which is concerning. (though he can't dig through stages, thankfully)

Hopefully there's some sort of drawback to keep Steve from being ludicrously overpowered when it comes to edge-guarding or recovery.

EDIT: looks like there's a limit to how far the blocks can be made off-stage, which is a plus - hopefully that extends to going below the stage as well.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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This is Music Menu Theory. I'm not the one that made it

Apprantly it's saying that since Minecraft will be under Persona Box, that it will take 2 New Franchises to make a perfect square. Therefor, 2 of the DLC Characters are coming from represented Franchises. I don't know how important a Perfect Square is, but eh
my guesses:

2 new franchises:
League of Legends (Ahri)
The World Ends With You (Neku)

2 existing franchises:
Xenoblade (Elma; adds X music)
Splatoon (Octoling; adds Octo Expansion music)

I KEEP WINNING BRUH
 
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Ramen Tengoku

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This is Music Menu Theory. I'm not the one that made it

Apprantly it's saying that since Minecraft will be under Persona Box, that it will take 2 New Franchises to make a perfect square. Therefor, 2 of the DLC Characters are coming from represented Franchises. I don't know how important a Perfect Square is, but eh
Not everything has to be perfect squares y'all
 

MrMcNuts

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Dialing MrMcNuts MrMcNuts for the full rundown. Oh, and add this new revelation to the list why dontcha. :yeahboi:
Basically in April when people found out that the Ubisoft Club App's version of Siri said it (no one knew this previously and I don't think the app is programed by people higher up in the know), they removed it about a week later and replaced it with a generic response.
 

cosmicB

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Well, Travis getting deconfirmed is a bummer, but at least we can be sure of a few things:

1. Cacomallow is 100% dead. It's delusional to think otherwise. And no, a 5 year NEGOTIATION process coupled with a programming nightmare of a character is not an indication of the survivability of the maximum 6 month efforts that are Mii costumes. It's dead.
2. Mii costume guy has also been discredited as there was no Joanna Dark. We're not getting another Microsoft rep, so that's that.
3. There will not be another character in time for the Mario tournament. This either means it was always irrelevant, or we're not getting a Mario character in the already decided-upon pass.

Now to look toward the future and figure out the more murky stuff. For one, there are now an uneven number of missing Mii costumes, but an even number of remaining fighters. This could mean any number of things. We could be getting two in one or more presentations as was the case with the Megaman and Sonic costumes and one in the remaining assuming none get upgraded. The fact Lloyd is now the sole Namco costume does bug me. We've had two mii costume massacres in a row with a Namco character where the fighter was not from Namco. The way I see it, that could mean a few things. Lloyd is seen as specifically a Tales character in the way Hero was specifically Dragon Quest rather than the associated companies, meaning he'll either be upgraded and come with his own Tales costumes, or the reverse and he'll get costume'd while we get someone like Yuri or Alphen as a fighter. The other possibility is we just don't get another Namco character and his costume is revealed whenever.

Capcom and SQEX have two missing costumes each. We can't really determine a precedent for either unless we want to go back to Smash 4 when rules could have been different. There's no way to determine if this means we're definitely getting a character from both/either or we aren't. And that's assuming there won't be at least one costume that just doesn't return (and not because they got upgraded to playable).

Man, I'm already hoping we get an FP8 reveal soon just so we can figure out what it means for the future of speculation.
 
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Spazzy_D

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I'm under the impression that E3 would have likely been Min Min (official reveal) and Steve... no real way of telling.

I have the gut feeling that the next pick will be a "comfort food" pick. We got a first party that missed the boat and a "shocking" third party, the next reveal being a favorite amongst Smash fans makes a certain amount of sense to me.

Who really knows, though. That Gil reveal was interesting. I would imagine that if, theoretically, all missing third party Mii costumes do not get upgraded but do come back that Geno and the Chocobo hat will be together. Same with the two Monster Hunter outfits. So we have 3-4 costumes reveals (Lloyd being the other costume) and 4 character reveals to coincide with them. For this pass, we've had a returning costume with each newcomer... so your Mii favorites not being upgraded are a real possibility. Let's hope for the best.
 

Shroob

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I'm under the impression that E3 would have likely been Min Min (official reveal) and Steve... no real way of telling.

I have the gut feeling that the next pick will be a "comfort food" pick. We got a first party that missed the boat and a "shocking" third party, the next reveal being a favorite amongst Smash fans makes a certain amount of sense to me.

Who really knows, though. That Gil reveal was interesting. I would imagine that if, theoretically, all missing third party Mii costumes do not get upgraded but do come back that Geno and the Chocobo hat will be together. Same with the two Monster Hunter outfits. So we have 3-4 costumes reveals (Lloyd being the other costume) and 4 character reveals to coincide with them. For this pass, we've had a returning costume with each newcomer... so your Mii favorites not being upgraded are a real possibility. Let's hope for the best.
I kinda feel like the 2 Monster Hunter costumes would return together as well tbh, assuming Hunter doesn't come playable. It'd be odd to have one but not the other.
 

SharkLord

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Welp, my more in-depth thoughts that are copy-pasted from RTC

The Blockmeisters Themselves
Steve as a character is cursed in the best ways possible. He looks like he might be busted for a few weeks until he gets nerfed and/or we start figuring out his weaknesses, but he's all we're going to be playing anyways, so it all evens out. I wish the item gauge was implemented a bit more smoothly, but eh. At the very least, I'm glad the crafting was streamlined to "Craft the highest-tier tools available all at once" instead of something screwy and chaotic like "You have a million different things you could possibly craft at one time." My idea for Steve was to frick around with various Minecraft blocks like doors and junk, but this is better. Kinda bummed that we don't have any songs from the original Minecraft, but the fact that they're basically awesome original songs to me softens the blow. Arch-Illager's theme sounds perfect for Final Destination.

Gee, Bomberman, how come you get actual alt colors?
Mashing F for Travis and his fans and clutching the cross tightly for Creeper and Pig. Those... things were not meant to be, and that's why I'm putting Sans' head onto them.
While it didn't occur with me at first, I now realize that Bomberman's the PreMiium of the pass. Sure, he doesn't have a song, but having actual alternate colors for once is enough to make me sing one for him. Anyways, Travis is someone I will use as an reminder that just because someone has stuff going for them doesn't mean we should jump to conclusions. Stuff like this makes me glad that my most-wanteds are fairly under the radar.

Gil from Tower of Druaga found dead in a back-alley in Miami (Or wherever it is you find dead people). More at 11.
And so continues the return of the Smash 4 Miis. I see two potential timelines; One where we get a slow stream of returning Miis only for one to return at the end, or one where they all stay in their graves. My first reaction is to suggest Geno, due to his popularity and the fact that he'd either have to come during the anniversary or at the end of the pass, but after Travis... Yeah. I'm hesitant to board the hype train for oft-discussed characters who seemingly have everything lining up for them, because Nintendo and Sakurai just seem to operate on different wavelengths as the fandom.

Assist Trophies... Still don't have a definitive answer
Yeah, I'm still supporting these guys. Twice now, Sakurai has passed over the opportunity to reaffirm the deaths of Assist Trophies in the new context of FP2, leaving us to scramble around and fill in the gaps. The way I see it, Bomberman could be taken both ways. On one hand, they take a fair bit from the AT, but to me, it feels less like "Bomberman can't be an actual fighter, so he's a Mii!" and more like "Bomberman can now be an Assist Trophy and Mii Fighter at the same time!"
Seeing as Sakurai sees Miis as a way to feel like the fighter's in Smash even if they're not on the roster, I don't think he's too worried about the ATs when choosing fighters. The problem is, there just aren't many ATs that have a feasible chance as a character, a number that gets even smaller when you take into account the content they'd need to bring with them. The only ATs that could fit those guidelines are Isaac, Shovel Knight, Akira, Bomberman, Zero, and maybe Waluigi if you stretch it, and that's not considering the fact that half of them have already been skinned to be used as Mii Costumes. Only two or three viable candidates aren't much, especially in the expanded scope of Ultimate. Bottom line, I don't see it as a matter of "Can it happen?" so much as a matter of "Will it happen?"

Indie Victory!
While Steve may not be an indie anymore, he's still an indie in spirit and I count that as a victory for them. I also count it as a victory for other indies that they weren't mentioned at all in Steve's presentation, be it for Minecraft itself or for the Miis. Indie supporters can rest easy for now.
My personal thoughts on indies are similar to ATs; They could happen, but there's only a handful that have a decently-feasible chance, and with so many possible outcomes for FP2, the overall chance becomes pretty low.
 

7NATOR

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Actually we might not be Done with the Deconfirmations. Next Tuesday is supposed to be the Spirit Event (I assume the Week Steve releases will be the one of the Missed Tourneys he was supposed to be Apart of)

The Thing on my mind is Dragalia lost, considering it's 2 year Anniversary was last week I believe. If There's no Event here, I'd be on the look out for either a Character or Mii costume
 

Sari

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Apprantly it's saying that since Minecraft will be under Persona Box, that it will take 2 New Franchises to make a perfect square. Therefor, 2 of the DLC Characters are coming from represented Franchises. I don't know how important a Perfect Square is, but eh


R.I.P. This theory.
 
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7NATOR

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I Don't believe the Music theory outright

But I will say that Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate are different times. Ultimate is More Professional with their organization. Also, remember tat although base game did not have Perfect Square, keep in mind DLC was Planned for the game, so Perhaps the Squares were attenting to that, but honestly, If we do get a perfect square in the music menu, it's mostly coincidence that it's perfect
 

RGFS

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And besides, the negotiations could always fail.
I don't know how negotiations could fail with someone like Ryu. Unless there's some great moveset potential on even half the level of Min Min or Steve, I could simply see a Mii Costume coming. When Ryu was originally speculated for Ultimate didn't he end up releasing for a different game with Ultimate in the title? Hayabusa's cool but I'm not sold on him being probable.


Also the limbless Creeper and Pig really make me feel uneasy about Rayman's chances of becoming a full fighter and not just getting the Bomberman treatment.
 

RGFS

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While the Minecraft costumes made me think of Rayman like everyone else, I also think Rayman as a mii would be really strange. The guy's super expressive, and I'm not sure how well it would translate if his face just didn't move.

The proportions and everything would work, but I don't know if I'm ready for soulless Rayman.
I think it worked fine with Cuphead.
 

P.Kat

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In fact

after much thought I’m feeling Ahri specifically uh... phrasing?

Extremely popular, can easily censor her outfit (just put a black void under her skirt or give her shorts), a Star Guardian alt at the very least (I COULD see K/DA if they don’t include the song or make it instrumental only idk)

and YMMV rambling from this point onward
I think Glitch Theory, at least for borrowed animations/properties if not full base may have some precedent. I definitely think Min Min borrowed some animations from Bayonetta despite using CF as a base, and Sakurai compared Steve’s Flint move to PK Fire, thus I guess that might explain Ness’s eyes disappearing. I THINK PK Fire might have triggered that if so

and the Daisy glitch? Starting to think that could be related to Ahri somehow
As cool as Ahri would be, I'd actually be gunning for Taliyah, I have KatKit KatKit to thank for that for showing off a great moveset for her. But I'm down for Ahri too. Also how do you do that particular spoiler feature?
 
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Rie Sonomura

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As cool as Ahri would be, I'd actually be gunning for Taliyah, I have KatKit KatKit to thank for that for showing off an great moveset for her. But I'm down for Ahri too. Also how do you do that particular spoiler feature?
It’s inline spoilers

the spoiler tag. Just put an i before the word spoiler
 

7NATOR

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Actually Bomberman might have some bigger Implications then Expected

They Honestly took the time to make Bomberman feel like an Actual Playable character. Nice Looking Model, Even being given Alt colots

however they also Made it so no Bomb Move could be added, which is what Bomberman's Iconic Move is. Sakurai even acknowledged that in the broadcast

I know they've done this thing before, But I think it's most blatant with Bomberman though

Considering that they added the Costume without the moves, I could see the same thing being done to someone like Crash Bandicoot, or Geno.
 

SKX31

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In fact

after much thought I’m feeling Ahri specifically uh... phrasing?

Extremely popular, can easily censor her outfit (just put a black void under her skirt or give her shorts), a Star Guardian alt at the very least (I COULD see K/DA if they don’t include the song or make it instrumental only idk)

and YMMV rambling from this point onward
I think Glitch Theory, at least for borrowed animations/properties if not full base may have some precedent. I definitely think Min Min borrowed some animations from Bayonetta despite using CF as a base, and Sakurai compared Steve’s Flint move to PK Fire, thus I guess that might explain Ness’s eyes disappearing. I THINK PK Fire might have triggered that if so

and the Daisy glitch? Starting to think that could be related to Ahri somehow
I could certainly see her, yes - to the point I'd argue she's one of LoL's frontrunners if that game gets a spot. One could also lenghten her skirt / give her shorts as you said - especially since it seems like Riot has already been willing to alter her outfit or even redesign her with the alts. The thing that strikes me the most in her favor is that she could come with a new mechanic - not just LoL's Summoner's Spells or anything like that, but also her Orb of Deception (which could work as a unique spin on Luma) and Charm spell.

Do remember that Glitch Theory, at least to me, is not really substantiated. Neither Sakurai nor his team will ever confirm it no, but it's still not on the steadiest of grounds because it relies on character development causing glitches in already-released characters. It could, but it's really difficult without direct verification.

Still, some of Min Min's animations resemble Bayo's, yes. I kinda think that her jab combo's kind of alika Bayo's F Tilt chain (although altered). Min Min's Up Smash looks like Fox's Up Smash the most, although there's a comparision to be made animation-wise with Bayo's Witch Time animation. Steve's D Tilt seemingly works like PK Fire in that it travels down while in the air and is apparently a multi-hit. It's not direct confirmation of anything, though.

I do want to believe that Glitch Theory is right and Ahri's connected to Daisy, but lets not put the cart before the horse just yet. Well just have to seel if it's true or not.


I'm about twelve minutes into Steve's presentation, and I feel like he's going to make the stage selection in competitive play even more restrictive than it already is (if he's competitively viable), given that the material that he mines seems to vary from stage to stage. (for example, I assume that Steve players aren't likely going to want to play on Kongo Jungle 64 in any form, since it's mainly wood)
KJ64 is not played in competitive due to the wonky slants (see Rekzius' discussion on why certain stages are banned in competitive), but the AC stages are relevant to the discussion as Cutie Gwen said. The gathering rate's going to be interesting, we'll just have to see if the difference is stark enough between the AC stages (wood) and Lylat (iron) to really matter.

As I've said previously, Competitive Steve is going to be such a mess and I can't wait to see it.

The only perfect square that Smash needed was Kirby.
B-b-bbut Cloud's proved that the World is Square(soft's)!

:4pacman:
 
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RetroBro

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If FP8 was supposed to be at E3 too, I can totally see a Grand Theft Auto rep being the perfect companion parallel as the biggest series not in Smash and GTA V being the second highest selling game in the world. Perfect way to introduce echoes and a more realistic gunner focused fighter. Super odd and unrealistic followed by pretty down to earth as far as Smash is concerned. Both series are big with kids and adults alike even with one having a mature target audience.. GTA was even an inspiration for NMH and, well, he is unfortunately not very likely anymore.
I really hate to play this card but there are just some M rated games that will never be in Smash. GTA and MK are two of those games. You can bring up Bayonetta and Snake all you want, but these are staunchly different circumstances with different reasoning for their inclusion.
 

Depressed Gengar

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All I'm going to say is that I'm shocked that the Banjo VS Steve wars haven't been resurrected from what I've seen. Given how intense those debates got, it feels like they should've erupted once again, even with both of them in now.
 

N3ON

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All I'm going to say is that I'm shocked that the Banjo VS Steve wars haven't been resurrected from what I've seen. Given how intense those debates got, it feels like they should've erupted once again, even with both of them in now.
Both sides eventually got what they wanted.

Why would they still feel the need to argue?
 

SKX31

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Both sides eventually got what they wanted.

Why would they still feel the need to argue?
N3ON N3ON , now they can argue over the most important things!

Like who wins in the competitive MU between the two characters and which of those has the higher place in the tier list!

:4pacman:

And then there's the Master Chief fans........
Whimpers and retreats to the background.
 

Cosmic77

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I just realized that Steve is the second kid-friendly character, meaning that the "no suggestive content" theory is still alive.

I don't think it's true, but I'm gonna laugh if the next character/franchise is also tame and people start taking this seriously.
Based off the theories that spawned from Travis's Mii costume, I feel like this outcome is actually pretty likely.
 
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