Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[extremeturkey]

He looks like his model is directly pulled from Minecraft like Min Min's was pulled from ARMS. I dunno whether this is gonna be a tradition from now on or it's just temporary budgetary reservation.

Yes

Recreating Steve's model themselves would have taken too much time and resources. He must have at LEAST twenty polygons, and at least a couple hundred pixels on his body.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I really want to see some chaos tomorrow, I want to see some Mii Costume deconfirmations.

 

[N3ON]

I like how the part of the presentation everyone is focusing on accounts for about one minute of the forty-five. xP

And I'm right there with you.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I get the criticisms with the design but I'm ok with it because 1: I believe Smash never had consistency for characters to begin with as Mario, Link, Kirby and Samus are all too different to fit together aestheticallt and 2: It helps characterize Steve as a massive ****ing cryptid alongside his render, taunts, final smash, etc. Helps him stand out visually

 

[Goombaic]

2: It helps characterize Steve as a massive ****ing cryptid alongside his render, taunts, final smash, etc.

Talking about the final smash, I wonder if Steve/Alex does actually pop-up eating a steak during the animation or if that was just a trailer thing.

It's the most jank thing in the trailer and I'm honestly not sure if I'd rather have them there or not.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Talking about the final smash, I wonder if Steve/Alex does actually pop-up eating a steak during the animation or if that was just a trailer thing.

It's the most jank thing in the trailer and I'm honestly not sure if I'd rather have them there or not.

It's absolutely there. It's so weird but because he also has it as a taunt it gives off a different interpretation, he's the only character to taunt you during a final smash which is mad funny to me

 

[Staarih]

I can see both points sides of the Steve's design discussion, but I personally just can't see how they would have done it differently, as Steve's whole thing is his blockyness.

And I feel like the textures are in line with other characters / polished enough, or is it just I who sees it in this thumbnail alone:

 

[BZL8]

Excellent essay from Reddit about how Steve's trailer gives a rich characterization that stays true to his home game. Apologies if the essay is already posted.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/..._bros_has_managed_to_give_steve_a_subtle_but/

In regards to the source material, the player character of Minecraft is nothing more than a blank slate for players to insert themselves into the game. There are no hidden depths to be found with Steve; no character motives, no history, naught but the clothes on his back and an ambiguous beard/doofy grin. He is a player-controlled avatar, lingering in the background to the extent that most players forget they're playing as him entirely. All it takes is a change in skin and Steve is basically gone.

How the hell did Sakurai take a complete non-character and inject him with such deadpan charm? It's subtle, but Steve has a distinct personality to him now.

His interactions with Mario in the reveal trailer speak silent volumes. The two encounter each other and engage in what appears to be a standoff... until Steve simply begins eating steak apropos of nothing. In his character-defining moments, we see that Steve doesn't give a rats a*** about introductions; he'll eat whenever he so pleases. Whoever this mysterious round plumber is, he simply isn't a priority for Steve, as further illustrated when Steve blocks up his entryway and leaves Mario at a Creeper's mercy. Steve took a startling situation in stride and proceeded to act in his own self-interest.

In the first win-screen shown to us, Steve builds a house on the results podium, exits it, closes the door, and then turns to the camera as though just noticing it's there. He appears to have built a house for the simple joy of building a house.

Steve exhibits a startling degree of pragmatism paired with often ludicrous endgoals. This is reflected in his fighting style. Steve is minimalist in animation and crafts better tools for himself from the environment, but Steve also overcomplicates his TNT trap with a redstone line and a pressure plate when the flint & steel he has would suffice. Or how he places minecart rails while riding a minecart, Wallace & Gromit-style. Steve does not take the easy way; he takes the fun way, his way, and he does so with finesse.

In no way is this trait further exemplified than in Steve's Final Smash. The kill box he sends opponents into - filled with Creepers & TNT - must have taken a lot of prep time. He stands next to it as the entire building detonates and eats cooked steak. Whether this is flexing over his enemies or a matter of simple apathy is unknown, but it should be apparent that Steve treats a lot of things as trivial.

All this is incredibly easy to miss thanks to Steve being as enigmatic and impassive as ever, but enough pieces are there that I'm pretty confident.

Steve lives in a world all to his own, one where he is his own master. Anything that falls outside his sphere of self-interest are goals to be conquered or mere non-factors. He does stuff because it's fun, and he does it the way he wants to. Life is but a dream, and the world his oyster.

All this added characterization ties neatly into the End Poem (Minecraft's pre-credits sequence) and the game's aesops about solipsism and the nature of purpose (which equally apply to both the player and their avatar).

To sum it up, Steve essentially has the personality of a Minecraft player.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Competitive players getting zoned by Steve when he comes out like:

 

[N3ON]

To be real, either I've accidentally muted someone who keeps saying Steve should be round, or some of you are sparring with a strawman. People are saying they can't picture Steve not being blocky, but I've only witnessed those advocate his texture gets cleaned up, not that his shape change at all.

And I feel like the textures are in line with other characters, or is it just I who sees it in this thumbnail alone:

I mean, minus the goatee, he looks almost the exact same to me between the two. It's just the lighting and saturation are different, which affects the colours.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I like how the part of the presentation everyone is focusing on accounts for about one minute of the forty-five. xP

Well unless he's adding a new mode or announcing another character, 43 of those minutes are going to be talking about Steve and the other minute about Amiibos. What's there to care about?

Talking about the final smash, I wonder if Steve/Alex does actually pop-up eating a steak during the animation or if that was just a trailer thing.

I'm curious if his FS also gives him some health back.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Talking about the final smash, I wonder if Steve/Alex does actually pop-up eating a steak during the animation or if that was just a trailer thing.

It's the most jank thing in the trailer and I'm honestly not sure if I'd rather have them there or not.

Considering how big of a meme the eating animation is in Japan I think it’s probably legit a part of the Final Smash.

 

[Ryuvain]

It's absolutely there. It's so weird but because he also has it as a taunt it gives off a different interpretation, he's the only character to taunt you during a final smash which is mad funny to me

Duck Hunt taunts you too.

Anyone else feel like the rest of the pass will be all blockbuster newcomers? It feels like a lot of other first party character chances took a nosedive now.

Maybe that's why this reveal hit me so hard.

 

[Staarih]

I mean, minus the goatee, he looks almost the exact same to me between the two. It's just the lighting and saturation are different, which affects the colours.

To me he looks "smoother" somehow, and I guess I was moreso arguing with him being "ripped from Minecraft", as he's clearly been modified to fit Smash even if his overall look very much sticks to the source material.

It's likely just a matter of time and people getting used to the idea and look of him in Smash. Who knows, today's presentation may sway people from one side to another already.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm gonna be proud of how I predicted Steve months ahead of time until the day I die, and even then I might set up an AI that brags about how I did it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Duck Hunt taunts you too.

Anyone else feel like the rest of the pass will be all blockbuster newcomers? It feels like a lot of other first party character chances took a nosedive now.

Maybe that's why this reveal hit me so hard.

Look I'm pretty negative about the Pass too but remember that Min Min was still the character they led with. I'm not counting first parties out yet.

To me he looks "smoother" somehow, and I guess I was moreso arguing with him being "ripped from Minecraft", as he's clearly been modified to fit Smash even if his overall look very much sticks to the source material.

Everyone has pointed out, either as a positive or as a negative, how much Steve looks like they just ripped the model straight out of Minecraft. So even if there's some slight alterations, I think the point remains that the goal of the devs was to make Steve look that way. Whether that design goal was the way to go, that's what's been so controversial, not the execution thereof - or at least, if anyone's said that they think Sakurai and team failed at replicating Minecraft, I haven't seen them.

 

[N3ON]

Duck Hunt taunts you too.

Anyone else feel like the rest of the pass will be all blockbuster newcomers? It feels like a lot of other first party character chances took a nosedive now.

Maybe that's why this reveal hit me so hard.

I feel like predicating speculation of the rest of the pass on just the most recent character is never a good idea.

I imagine it will continue to be a mix.

To me he looks "smoother" somehow, and I guess I was moreso arguing with him being "ripped from Minecraft", as he's clearly been modified to fit Smash even if his overall look very much sticks to the source material.

It's likely just a matter of time and people getting used to the idea and look of him in Smash. Who knows, today's presentation may sway people from one side to another already.

Are you talking about him visually appearing smoother, or him animating more smoothly? Because I agree with the latter, but I'm not with you on the former.

 

[Arcanir]

Duck Hunt taunts you too.

Anyone else feel like the rest of the pass will be all blockbuster newcomers? It feels like a lot of other first party character chances took a nosedive now.

Maybe that's why this reveal hit me so hard.

It doesn't really change much. When ARMs was first revealed many thought they'd set the tone for the rest of the pass and then we got Steve/Alex, so us getting Minecraft doesn't suddenly mean we're switching gears and only going to get other characters in their same class.

 

[Shroob]

Duck Hunt taunts you too.

Anyone else feel like the rest of the pass will be all blockbuster newcomers? It feels like a lot of other first party character chances took a nosedive now.

Maybe that's why this reveal hit me so hard.

3 months ago, people were convinced this pass would be filled with 1st parties and 'lower end' 3rd parties due to Minmin, so, nah

 

[DarthEnderX]

Man, this just made me smile...

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[Ryuvain]

It doesn't really change much. When ARMs was first revealed many thought they'd set the tone for the rest of the pass and then we got Steve/Alex, so us getting Minecraft doesn't suddenly mean we're switching gears and only going to get other characters in their same class.

What I meant was that ARMS was still a new series to the game. I'm talking about characters that already have their series on smash. That's where my most wanteds fall and it's not looking good.

It's still a good move getting big and new names into smash but it hurts so many chances.

 

[Staarih]

Are you talking about him visually appearing smoother, or him animating more smoothly? Because I agree with the latter, but I'm not with you on the former.

I would say both? I think he has visually been touched upon for sure, but I'm no expert of course. I feel like he is on-par with the rest of the fighters "texture-wise" and it's just a design choice to keep his pixelated etc appearance.

Which I see now was the real discussion (whether or not it was the right choice).

 

[N3ON]

I would say both? I think he has visually been touched upon for sure, but I'm no expert of course. I feel like he is on-par with the rest of the fighters "texture-wise" and it's just a design choice to keep his pixelated etc appearance.

Which I see now was the real discussion (whether or not it was the right choice).

I mean... not really. But it's deliberately so, because Steve aims to replicate his direct look in Minecraft, which itself is deliberately lo-fi visually.

Personally I think the render I posted a page ago fits within the aesthetic of Ultimate's cast more, yet does not sacrifice a "faithful" representation of Steve to any greater extent than any other character brought under the wing of Ultimate's art direction (aka all the others). Which is typically Smash's aim.

Believe me I understand not everyone feels that way, but my goodness do some people seem loathed to believe the alternate look could work as well. It's so strange considering, to my knowledge, there was never any great pushback to that design prior to yesterday.

Plus... it's basically the official design used on the cover of the game. How is it so unfitting?

 

[TechPowah]

Steve popping up to just sit there and eat at the end of his FS is fine and whatever but

when you realize that the same is gonna happen with Enderman and honestly that'll look even more out of place

 

[Shroob]

I guess I'm kinda the odd duck of this situation when it comes to Steve.


Steve wasn't a character I necessarily wanted/expected, but I don't dislike him either. I can definitely see both sides of the argument, but I feel like my opinion comes from a point of bias, since I never intended to buy the Pass piecemeal, I love Smash regardless, so a bad business practice or not, I bought it day 1 and fully expected not to love or be on board with every character choice, and that's okay.


But when it comes to the visuals.... Maybe it's just me, but... I don't.... care? Like, to me, I've never really cared about how Smash looks visually, so that's never been an issue. Does Steve stick out like a sore thumb? Yes. Is he ugly as sin? Oh hell yes he is. Does he fit the artstyle at all? Not one bit... but I never cared about the artstyle of Smash to begin with either.


Could they have improved him? Absolutely, but in the end, they chose to keep him 1:1 faithful with his game, and honestly, maybe that's kinda just... the joke? Like, the trailer didn't shy away.... at all.... to imply how odd, ungodly and out of place he looked compared to the game, I feel like cleaning him up would lose a lot of that 'wow, he doesn't fit in at all' charm.


This isn't to say that one side is more valid than the other. If you don't like how out of place he looks, more power to you, likewise, if you think he looks fine, don't try to force others to see it your way, but as for me...?


Funny block man go nom nom nom

 

[Flik]

I really want to see some chaos tomorrow, I want to see some Mii Costume deconfirmations.

Where you see "deconfirmations", I see "potential cool stuff".

 

[Staarih]

I mean... not really. But it's deliberately so, because Steve aims to replicate his direct look in Minecraft, which itself is deliberately lo-fi visually.

Personally I think the render I posted a page ago fits within the aesthetic of Ultimate's cast more, yet does not sacrifice a "faithful" representation of Steve to any greater extent than any other character brought under the wing of Ultimate's art direction (aka all the others). Which is typically Smash's aim.

Believe me I understand not everyone feels that way, but my goodness do some people seem loathed to believe the alternate look could work as well. It's so strange considering, to my knowledge, there was never any great pushback to that design prior to yesterday.

Plus... it's basically the official design used on the cover of the game. How is it so unfitting?

I see where you're coming from, the render you talk about does appear "cleaner", and would definitely have worked in Smash. Maybe the "pixelated" look is the team's definition of adding detail then haha, there's only so much enhancing you can do on... blocks. I still feel like the overall visual look and color palette etc on Steve is fine and fits in with the rest of the crew, but people see things differently of course. Adding fabric details to his clothes or something (not that I think anyone has even suggested that) would have been a step too far for Steve, even if it would've been the route Smash renders usually take when upgrading characters.

Anyway, I just wanna see him in action more, I feel like the animation and, well, seeing him in the whole picture will help a lot. Luckily we'll get that later today.

 

[Shroob]

I mean... not really. But it's deliberately so, because Steve aims to replicate his direct look in Minecraft, which itself is deliberately lo-fi visually.

Personally I think the render I posted a page ago fits within the aesthetic of Ultimate's cast more, yet does not sacrifice a "faithful" representation of Steve to any greater extent than any other character brought under the wing of Ultimate's art direction (aka all the others). Which is typically Smash's aim.

Believe me I understand not everyone feels that way, but my goodness do some people seem loathed to believe the alternate look could work as well. It's so strange considering, to my knowledge, there was never any great pushback to that design prior to yesterday.

Plus... it's basically the official design used on the cover of the game. How is it so unfitting?

Honestly, now that I think about it, I don't think it's unfitting(Albeit, I never did), but maybe there's some kinda, even subconsciously "Soul vs Soulless" debate going on here.

Like, it's no secret that a game I'm heavily invested in is Granblue, and that game takes HEAVY inspiration from Final Fantasy Tactics, to the point that a lot of people who made FFT work on it, and like FFT, the artstyle when the game came out was... very rough and unique, to put it simply, with a lot of dull colors, rough lines, and simple faces.

But over time, the characters got more and more updated to fit what you'd expect a mobile anime game to look like, and even a lot of the older characters got new, updated art, and ever since, a lot of the community thinks the new art is "Soulless" compared to the more rough, frankly uglier art that the game launched with.


I dunno, I've seen a lot of "Soul vs Soulless" debates as of late, and all this comparison of Steve's Smash model vs his cleaner render reminded me all too well of them.

 

[GoodGrief741]

What I meant was that ARMS was still a new series to the game. I'm talking about characters that already have their series on smash. That's where my most wanteds fall and it's not looking good.

It's still a good move getting big and new names into smash but it hurts so many chances.

Well I can't give any assurances on that regard but I think characters like that are still on the table.

 

[ZelDan]

Personally, I wasn't going to be excited about Steve's inclusion no matter how he looked.

giving him a cleaner look or "smashifying" his look might have atleast made the whole thing easier to swallow for me though.

 

[N3ON]

I guess I'm kinda the odd duck of this situation when it comes to Steve.


Steve wasn't a character I necessarily wanted/expected, but I don't dislike him either. I can definitely see both sides of the argument, but I feel like my opinion comes from a point of bias, since I never intended to buy the Pass piecemeal, I love Smash regardless, so a bad business practice or not, I bought it day 1 and fully expected not to love or be on board with every character choice, and that's okay.


But when it comes to the visuals.... Maybe it's just me, but... I don't.... care? Like, to me, I've never really cared about how Smash looks visually, so that's never been an issue. Does Steve stick out like a sore thumb? Yes. Is he ugly as sin? Oh hell yes he is. Does he fit the artstyle at all? Not one bit... but I never cared about the artstyle of Smash to begin with either.


Could they have improved him? Absolutely, but in the end, they chose to keep him 1:1 faithful with his game, and honestly, maybe that's kinda just... the joke? Like, the trailer didn't shy away.... at all.... to imply how odd, ungodly and out of place he looked compared to the game, I feel like cleaning him up would lose a lot of that 'wow, he doesn't fit in at all' charm.


This isn't to say that one side is more valid than the other. If you don't like how out of place he looks, more power to you, likewise, if you think he looks fine, don't try to force others to see it your way, but as for me...?


Funny block man go nom nom nom

Y'know, that's fair enough. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. I totally get not caring so much about the visuals. I personally don't care nearly as much about the gameplay as others seem to. I know that sounds strange, and I don't mean the gameplay as a whole (as a whole I love Smash's simplicity and freedom of movement - especially because I'm butt at other fighting games), but I've almost never had the gameplay inform who my mains and secondaries are. I just adapt around the characters I like.

It's funny, someone earlier said something about armchair graphic designers or something, when I have done graphic design work before. So design and art style is something I give more weight than others might. My affinities in general lie more towards the visual, and usually the art style of a game or series is critical to whether I dive in.

That might help explain why I've been talking about Steven J. Minecraft's ugly goddam shirt for the last like... fifteen hours lmao. Well that and quarantine.

 

[Oppih]

I still have a gut feeling this fighters pass is set all around completely unique gameplay mechanics, with one of them being based around rhythm/timed attacks. Whether that character is from Rhythm Heaven or Taiko no Tatsujin, who knows. Both have strong cases going for eachother as THE rhythm rep.

You could also make the argument that Donkey Kong's old final smash makes him technically a rhythm rep but let's not think about that.

 

[Shroob]

I still have a gut feeling this fighters pass is set all around completely unique gameplay mechanics, with one of them being based around rhythm/timed attacks. Whether that character is from Rhythm Heaven or Taiko no Tatsujin, who knows. Both have strong cases going for eachother as THE rhythm rep.

You could also make the argument that Donkey Kong's old final smash makes him technically a rhythm rep but let's not think about that.

Ramen Tengoku just keeps winning...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Steve popping up to just sit there and eat at the end of his FS is fine and whatever but

when you realize that the same is gonna happen with Enderman and honestly that'll look even more out of place

"Hey man I'm blowing up K.Rool in the house you want anything?"
Enderman: The souls of the innocent!
Steve: A steak.
Enderman: Noooooooooo!
Steve: Two steaks.

Ramen Tengoku just keeps winning...

This means we found someone who carries the Win gene, meaning Baboom is likely his ancestor

 

[Deleted member]

Ramen Tengoku just keeps winning...

Considering Ramen got three out of their top five most wanted characters in a row, I think we could very well get a Rhythm Heaven representative. Ramen has the power of luck on their side, and it is nice to see Ramen being happy.

In comparison, my three most wanted characters were Steve, Phoenix Wright, and the Terrarian, and I got one. I am very satisfied with the pass now. To be fair, I think Steve would be more hype for me than Phoenix Wright (I still love Phoenix Wright), and the Terrarian had no shot of getting in.

 

[N3ON]

Where do y'all stand on Mister Chief
Master Chef
Monsieur Cheese
Halo Man if we don't see a costume of him later?

 

[Flik]

I still have a gut feeling this fighters pass is set all around completely unique gameplay mechanics, with one of them being based around rhythm/timed attacks. Whether that character is from Rhythm Heaven or Taiko no Tatsujin, who knows. Both have strong cases going for eachother as THE rhythm rep.

You could also make the argument that Donkey Kong's old final smash makes him technically a rhythm rep but let's not think about that.

I hope it doesn't mean every new character on this fighter pass is weird like the first two. A fighter doesn't need to be weird or "unique looking" to have unique gameplay/mechanics.

 

[Shroob]

Where do y'all stand on Mister Chief
Master Chef
Monsieur Cheese
Halo Man if we don't see a costume of him later?

Still possible, but like all other characters, a big ? over his head. I just want tomorrow's Mii costumes to bring some closure on some things if we're getting any.

Chief, as sad as it'd be, would blow up hard in a certain someone's face, and the ones from 4 would shake up speculation immensely... some more than others.


There's also the next wave of Amiibo, which we can potentially pin for our next character's release date roughly.

 

[ZelDan]

Where do y'all stand on Mister Chief
Master Chef
Monsieur Cheese
Halo Man if we don't see a costume of him later?

As someone who has Master Chief as a MW, I'd still be pretty doubtful honestly as I don't really see MS getting 2 reps in one pass, or 3 reps in one Smash game.

It's not impossible of course and I'd love to see Master Chief make it in and prove me wrong, but eh.

 

[Will]

Where do y'all stand on Mister Chief
Master Chef
Monsieur Cheese
Halo Man if we don't see a costume of him later?

****, maybe Fighter's Pass 3 if it ever happens on the slimmest chance.