Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Mushroomguy12]

Wasn't there not a pass in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U? I'm pretty sure all of the DLC fighters there were standalone.

I wasn't referring to a pass for Smash 4, I was simply using Smash 4 as an example because the 3rd Party characters (Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta) came with stages while the four 1st Parties (Mewtwo/Lucas/Roy/Corrin) didn't, as well as the fact that Corrin came with music similar to the 3rd Parties but the other three 1st Parties didn't. It was a little difficult to word because of the differences between the DLC for the two games, but my Pass comment was referring strictly to Ultimate.

 

[Slime Master]

Are the remaining first party characters really significantly less important than some of the characters we have now though? I know Bandanna Dee has managed to beat Dedede in some Japanese popularity polls, and given Toad's track record I have a hard time calling him less important than Rosalina and Daisy (and plant, but that's a weird exception).

I don't think there will be first parties in the fighters pass, but I don't know if "they're less iconic than characters we already have" is an all-encompassing reason for that.

 

[YezenIRl]

I think most people would prefer him to be on the roster, or at least wouldn't find it weird if he was.

Not to be combative but I feel like most people don't care.

Are the remaining first party characters really significantly less important than some of the characters we have now though?

I don't think this question has an answer. There are some first party characters people want who are arguably more important than some characters on the current roster.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Importance, popularity, and iconicness are all different things.

 

[Troykv]

Not to be combative but I feel like most people don't care.

Most people would expect it; but I agree they wouldn't care.

It's like how many people see Toad in many Mario Spin-Offs; just another character to play; you know him because he appears in most of the games; but he doesn't do anything remarkable outside some specific spin-offs.

So I guess it's understandable isn't exactly the kind of character many people would really like to see in Smash; even if in the context of "Nintendo All-Stars" it would make a lot of sense to see him playable.

 

[Slime Master]

Importance, popularity, and iconicness are all different things.

Yeah, that was poor wording on my part, but they're all factors for getting into smash, which is really what my point is.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Obviously, Porky is important to his own series (he is more important than Dungeon Man, but that's why I see his spirit as being represented by the Absolutely Safe Capsule), but the problem comes from the size of Earthbound itself. Mother is blessed enough to have 2 characters, if Ness and Lucas weren't classic veterans within Smash the odds that even one of them, let alone both of them would be here would be incredibly small (as we can see by what happened to series like Wars, Golden Sun, and Rhythm Heaven). It is literally a series only being kept in the public memory by Smash. People say "but Fire Emblem was saved by Smash and that is one of Nintendo's most popular series now with 7 characters". That's because Fire Emblem actually used the fame Smash gave it in order to release plenty of mega hits like Awakening, Heroes, and Three Houses. Earthbound has done **** all with the exposure that Smash gave it aside from a couple Virtual console releases, the last game was more than a decade ago, and we still don't have Mother 3 outside of Japan. It's more in the F-Zero category, except for F-Zero at least has more than two games released in the West and games that sold more than a million copies.

I love the Mother trilogy, I really hate for anyone to assume that I hate it based on this, but until we get that Mother trilogy collection port/remake on a modern Nintendo console and it sells gangbusters, I really wouldn't put Porky outside of scraping the bottom of the barrel.

The idea that Earthbound hasn't done anything with the exposure given to it is frankly absurd. Earthbound after Smash blew up in a way that few games have. If Nintendo wasn't smart enough to capitalize on it, that's on them.

Clearly "bottom of the barrel" was a poor choice of words, as it seems to have obscured the meaning of what I'm trying to say. I didn't mean to insult any characters or series in particular, but rather to make a statement about what we have vs. what is left.



I feel like there is definitely something to adding new series instead of piling on Fire Emblem characters, but...

I think statements like these sort of obscure the point. "Deserve" is such an arbitrary concept, with such arbitrary criteria. 100 more characters could be argued to "deserve" a spot in Smash based on one criteria or another. So my statement isn't meant to say that anyone does or doesn't deserve a spot. If we are going by my personal wants, I haven't actively wanted a character in Smash since Toon Link. The last two smash games have been (for me) just a game of waiting to be surprised by new and interesting characters I didn't know that I wanted.

But ultimately, the roster is limited. The developers cannot add characters endlessly while keeping the quality and balance of the game. The fun of waiting for and speculating about new characters is one half of the enjoyment, but the other half is actually playing, and in order for that to be fun, the developers need to cap their workload somewhere.

So when looking at a limited roster, and a limited number of newcomers, Nintendo's choice to (so far) go Third Party for the fighter pass makes sense to me. It's not a statement that Rhythm Heaven doesn't deserve inclusion, or that Dixie Kong isn't good enough, but rather that it feels time to start going for big names outside of Nintendo rather than Nintendo (further) mining it's own history for the next characters that haven't been added. Characters that aren't considered to be in the top 50 in terms of priority.

That's not to say that new IPs shouldn't get any support in order to create big names. Just that new IPs getting support should feel more like a trade off, where Smash is support, not life support. Inkling makes sense. Inkling is a new IP with a future. So let's use Smash to build on that.

Maybe wording my point that way won't be any less unpopular, because a lot of people in these communities have spent a lot of thought on this and made big emotional investments in these "next characters in line." But too often character speculation is treated like taking turns. After character a gets in, then chaacter b is next. After p, then q. I think there is value in letting ourselves be surprised. In accepting that a character doesn't need to get in just because a vocal minority of Smash fans have been pining for that character long enough.

I like the idea of getting characters we didn't know to ask for, instead of characters that are simply next.



Toad is in Smash.

Why is now time to start going for big names outside Nintendo? Seems pretty arbitrary to me. Two games ago we got Pit brought back from obscurity and nobody bats an eye, and two games later you can't have Isaac in the game because he's too obscure. What changed? Whatever it is, it feels somewhat unfair to the characters that aren't in.

What I'm saying is, Smash has been scraping the bottom of the barrel from day one. That's what's made Smash what we love. To deny that is to deny a vital part of what made the series.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

If Nintendo wasn't smart enough to capitalize on it, that's on them.

Well, that's precisely my point. I would LOVE for Earthbound to make a comeback, it was literally one of the first RPGs I actually got into on a deep level, but Nintendo largely hasn't capitalized on it, the same way so many of their other franchises lay dormant in their Nintendo vaults. Yes, it got more exposure (which isn't really exclusive to Earthbound when it comes to Smash Bros), but that's it outside of the virtual console. No actual remakes, definitely not new games, and the third game still isn't able to be officially played in English, let alone on a modern console. It IS on them, but they also happen to be the ones choosing the characters, and clearly it's not a very big priority for them, sad as it is. I was one of those people that migrated to Earthbound after Smash, but without any kind of games to get excited for, (and not even being able to play most of the games officially at first), it wasn't particularly easy to maintain interest for very long compared to the Nintendo series that still do get sequels.

Itoi himself has said repeatedly that there would never be a Mother 4 to this very day, so the series doesn't even have any kind of potential future outside of remakes/ports. It is in all respects and accounts, completely finished, with a beginning, middle, and end.

I just think there are so many other Nintendo series that could use more reps or even 1 rep before we even should start thinking about another unique Mother rep. Can we at least get Mother 3 in the west first?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well, that's precisely my point. I would LOVE for Earthbound to make a comeback, but Nintendo largely hasn't capitalized on it, the same way so many of their other franchises lay dormant in their Nintendo vaults. It IS on them, but they also happen to be the ones choosing the characters, and clearly it's not a very big priority for them, sad as it is.

Itoi himself said that there would never be a Mother 4 multiple times, so the series doesn't even have any kind of potential future outside of remakes/ports. It is in all respects and accounts, completely finished, with a beginning, middle, and end.

I just think there are so many other Nintendo series that could use more reps or even 1 rep before we even should start thinking about another unique Mother rep. Can we at least get Mother 3 in the west first?

I want the same thing dude but unfortunately there’s some things to consider, namely:
1. The copyright issues attached to some music, which iirc also is why it took so long for EarthBound to get rereleased on Virtual Console
2. THAT scene. You know the one.

Again I would LOVE Mother 3 to get a proper English release, but...

 

[YezenIRl]

Why is now time to start going for big names outside Nintendo? Seems pretty arbitrary to me. Two games ago we got Pit brought back from obscurity and nobody bats an eye, and two games later you can't have Isaac in the game because he's too obscure. What changed? Whatever it is, it feels somewhat unfair to the characters that aren't in.

In someways it is arbitrary. But in other ways it's not. But I think the idea of "fairness" isn't applicable here.

There has always been a balance with Smash. Some new characters. Some popular characters. Some relevant characters. Some unexpected ones. There is no across the board rule you can apply to character inclusion, and people too often try to in order to create some sort of criteria in which the character they want is somehow objectively deserving. This way if that character doesn't get in and they feel disappointed, they are able to rationalize their disappointment. They aren't just bummed they didn't get what they want. They're bummed because they were cheated out of what they deserved.

Of course, not everyone thinks in those terms.

But to put it simply. Why didn't Isaac get in? If I had to guess probably because Hero seemed like a better idea.

The other thing to look at to differentiate brawl and Ultimate, is the size the roster has expanded. We're approaching nubers that are unheard of for a fighting game. Especially one that is supposed to be balanced. Sakurai himself acknowledges that he probably won't be able to bring everyone back again. This actually makes Ultimate the perfect time for guest characters, seeing as a lot of the roster is unlikely to return or a potential next Smash game (whenever that may be). So it makes sense to go for bigger name guest characters that they might not want to get back next time, as opposed to someone like Edelgard or Isaac.

 

[GoodGrief741]

In someways it is arbitrary. But in other ways it's not. But I think the idea of "fairness" isn't applicable here.

There has always been a balance with Smash. Some new characters. Some popular characters. Some relevant characters. Some unexpected ones. There is no across the board rule you can apply to character inclusion, and people too often try to in order to create some sort of criteria in which the character they want is somehow objectively deserving. This way if that character doesn't get in and they feel disappointed, they are able to rationalize their disappointment. They aren't just bummed they didn't get what they want. They're bummed because they were cheated out of what they deserved.

Of course, not everyone thinks in those terms.

But to put it simply. Why didn't Isaac get in? If I had to guess probably because Hero seemed like a better idea.

The other thing to look at to differentiate brawl and Ultimate, is the size the roster has expanded. We're approaching nubers that are unheard of for a fighting game. Especially one that is supposed to be balanced. Sakurai himself acknowledges that he probably won't be able to bring everyone back again. This actually makes Ultimate the perfect time for guest characters, seeing as a lot of the roster is unlikely to return or a potential next Smash game (whenever that may be). So it makes sense to go for bigger name guest characters that they might not want to get back next time, as opposed to someone like Edelgard or Isaac.

If the idea is to get characters that they'll only have for one game, then fine, they're going about it well. But the balance that you speak of is very much out of wack this time around.

 

[SVG360]

No offense, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.

In terms of orange, there's Q*Bert, Bubsy, Pooka, Crash, Ulala, Orange Knight (Castle Crashers), Earl (Toejam & Earl), Conker, Chell (Portal 1 jumpsuit), Ermac, Gordon Freeman, Daxter, Redd, Ty, Fidget (Dust An Elysian Tale), and Tracer (kinda).

Crash Bandicoot

 

[N3ON]

But to put it simply. Why didn't Isaac get in? If I had to guess probably because Hero seemed like a better idea.

That's not how things work.

One character isn't going to be omitted from consideration in 2015 for one that was chosen in (probably) 2018. Also it implies one would render the other redundant, like Isaac and Hero would be too similar to each other. As if Isaac would rely on fire, electricity and wind like Hero when his main element is earth. And that's without considering that Sakurai seems under the impression those big hands are an integral part of Isaac's representation.

I guess if you were to boil the characters down to a tagline they might sound similar, but if that's the case we already had the mid-90s platforming animal. You know, the one with the projectiles. The really popular one. From Rare. Yeah, the one that hadn't appeared in a long time.

 

[Ura]

An advance wars rep (Louie for a while, but I fear Nintendo would just make him a bland Olimar clone) like Andy or Sami!
1) Series is important to Nintendo (it persuaded IS to release FE here, a smash success nowadays)
2) Series is important to Smash (We all know how well FE is repped in Smash, and it's very possible that had FE not been localized, it would have seen a much lesser Smash impact or even cancelation)
3) Series has been inactive for some time now (the last installment was on the DS, the same year as Brawl), and a rep would be an awesome way to rekindle interest in the series should they reboot it
4) Any rep could be interesting- a character using modern weaponry and guns? a character who's a non-anime human? a character who screams AMERICA? perhaps even a mech or tank user? check all. AW has a bunch of unique and dynamic systems in check to keep things fresh, so it's not even like a surge of AW reps could be boring and recieve "tank man bad" ala FE now
5) It'd be awesome, and smash is doing a criminal disservice by not including any maps or music from the games.

If they ain't gonna make PM great again, at least create a new AW game, @IS!

Edit: Andy is basically the figurehead for the series (Famicom Wars ignored), and Sami was planned for Project M, so why I named those two in particular. Any CO could work really well as a fighter- just let them use attacks based off units they as COs specialize in. Use a CO power as an FS, or if there's more AW reps in the future maybe even do some weird Dual Strike thing for doubles! The possibilities are very high, and I do believe many are sleeping on a potential AW reps' "cool" factor, even if they're extremely unlikely at this point.

Awesome write up! Agree with all the points made here. We know what a franchise having exposure in Smash Bros can do for it as evident with many franchises in the game. And even more so considering the links the Wars series has to some of the franchises already represented in Smash.

• People already brought up the Wars games that Intelligent Systems made, for example, and while the series is currently on hiatus and people aren't frothing at the mouths for another game or for their characters to be in Smash, the Wars games are still pretty important to Nintendo and codified console strategy games before Fire Emblem came out, plus a military commander sounds like a fun concept for a moveset in Smash.

I agree with you on that the Wars series is historically important to Nintendo but I really disagree with you on the notion that people aren't wanting the series to return. Otherwise, we wouldn't get games like Wargroove, Tiny Metal, Into the Breach, and all those other AW-inspired indies. Not to mention it wouldn't rank so highly on franchises people wanted to see on the Switch as in polls like these.

As for Andy/Sami's support, it does exist. It's why Sami was in the scrapped PM build and

Spoiler

Andy is heavily rumored to be in Super Smash Flash 2

Their support just isn't as loud/vocal as the other heavy hitters like Isaac, Geno, and so on. I would say they're both mid-tier level requests even if a lot of support for them was for "they should take Snake's moveset" which I really didn't like lol. The movsets both would being would be sweet I tell ya!

 

[YezenIRl]

If the idea is to get characters that they'll only have for one game, then fine, they're going about it well. But the balance that you speak of is very much out of wack this time around.

It had to be. Because the roster is too big to add very many characters and there just aren't as many unrepresented franchises as there used to be.

I guess if you were to boil the characters down to a tagline they might sound similar, but if that's the case we already had the mid-90s platforming animal. You know, the one with the projectiles. The really popular one. From Rare. Yeah, the one that hadn't appeared in a long time.

I think people always exaggerate too hard one way or the other in these kinds of discussions. Either every JRPG sword guy is considered to be the exact same character of which Smash is overflowing, or people pretend that Hero, Crono and Isaac have basically nothing in common and we could get all three of them on the same fighter pass and they'd be as distinct and varied as any three characters on the roster.

You have to be able to look at this from multiple angles. Not just the angle of being a fan of a particular character. Smash tries to represent a lot of different genres and types of characters.

 

[TheYungLink]

Their support just isn't as loud/vocal as the other heavy hitters like Isaac, Geno, and so on.

That's what I meant to imply with the other bullet point regarding Hajimari no Mori and Sin & Punishment / The Wonderful 101, I guess I could have added a sentence in the Wars bullet point but I figured it was a given, oh well. And while you're right about there being a lot of indie games being made today in response to the absence of Advance Wars, my only point was that even if there wasn't demand, a character from the Wars games would still be a worthwhile inclusion regardless.

 

[tenworldsguy]

What I'm saying is, Smash has been scraping the bottom of the barrel from day one. That's what's made Smash what we love. To deny that is to deny a vital part of what made the series.

That is a very true point. Heck, my love for Pikmin, Xenoblade, Earthbound was mostly due to Smash going out of its way to feature obscure franchises. I really hoped that we would get more series in SmashU, initially a lil disappointed but DLC is lookin mighty fine rn. I'd love more first/second party new series tho, but that can wait for now.

Awesome write up! Agree with all the points made here. We know what a franchise having exposure in Smash Bros can do for it as evident with many franchises in the game. And even more so considering the links the Wars series has to some of the franchises already represented in Smash.
As for Andy/Sami's support, it does exist. It's why Sami was in the scrapped PM build and

Spoiler

Andy is heavily rumored to be in Super Smash Flash 2

Their support just isn't as loud/vocal as the other heavy hitters like Isaac, Geno, and so on. I would say they're both mid-tier level requests even if a lot of support for them was for "they should take Snake's moveset" which I really didn't like lol. The movsets both would being would be sweet I tell ya!

First off- thanks for that compliment, I just got into the series about two days ago (was interested because of the leaks in PM intrigued my curiosity, and it plays like a much more polished (and less RNG) GBA FE. If they translated the gameplay into smoother graphics it'd be an amazing hit, (hypothetically).
The idea of an AW rep being a Snake clone is kind of a lame idea, but one I could feasibly see happening, considering Nintendo's history with weird clones (Dark Pit exists, Ganondorf is just thicc Falcon, etc). I'd much prefer a "summoner" archetype that relies on stage control with lil GBA sprite versions of the units in-game, like how the assist was but as a special.
Wait Andy is rumored for SSF2? where's that from? (Hopefully as a 1.2 release if that's the case)

 

[GoodGrief741]

Because the roster is too big to add very many characters and there just aren't as many unrepresented franchises as there used to be.

They don't have to add many characters, they just have to be better balanced. If the remaining two characters are third party, that's 50% of this game's unique newcomers being third party. Far from the ratios of all the previous games.

Also the notion that there aren't as many unrepresented franchise is just false. Nintendo has dozens of franchises that could have playable characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Either every JRPG sword guy is considered to be the exact same character of which Smash is overflowing, or people pretend that Hero, Crono and Isaac have basically nothing in common and we could get all three of them on the same fighter pass and they'd be as distinct and varied as any three characters on the roster.

Aesthetically they would feel somewhat similar. Crono and the Hero in particular were both at leased based of of Akira Toriyama's style so they'd feel kinda similar there (though Crono would have the more jagged edges you'd expect from the artstyle). In terms of playstyle though it would be really easy to make them different. Hero went the way of using all the spells, Crono would team up with Marle and Lucca to do a bunch of different techs n' stuff, and Isaac...well I dunno what they would do with him though Super Smash Flash 2 does make him pretty interesting even among the likes of Sora, Lloyd, Marth, and Strawberry. (Though it may help that those are the only traditional swordfighters in the game.)

If they were added in the pass then I do expect that people would gripe about four out of five of the characters being from JRPGs, but to say that they wouldn't be distinct or unique as characters is going a bit far. Or to put it another way, the issue lies in who the three appeal to rather than their potential to bring a unique experience to the table.

 

[Garteam]

Hero has 4 different associated amiibo box colours for each of the 4 heroes. Eleven is purple, Arusu is light blue, Solo is green, and Eight is yellow. This more or less means that color theory(which predicts that character 4 and 5 would have a blue and orange background) is more or less dead.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.pri...timate_dragon_quest_challenge.jpg_1200x0_.jpg

Mildly off-topic, but I wonder if all of the Hero alts will get Amiibo. I don't really care for Eleven's design, but I'd be more than willing to get an Arusu or Eight Amiibo.

 

[Ura]

First off- thanks for that compliment, I just got into the series about two days ago (was interested because of the leaks in PM intrigued my curiosity, and it plays like a much more polished (and less RNG) GBA FE. If they translated the gameplay into smoother graphics it'd be an amazing hit, (hypothetically).
The idea of an AW rep being a Snake clone is kind of a lame idea, but one I could feasibly see happening, considering Nintendo's history with weird clones (Dark Pit exists, Ganondorf is just thicc Falcon, etc). I'd much prefer a "summoner" archetype that relies on stage control with lil GBA sprite versions of the units in-game, like how the assist was but as a special.
Wait Andy is rumored for SSF2? where's that from? (Hopefully as a 1.2 release if that's the case)

Summoner archetype is the idea I have for Andy as well. In particular, a system where he uses Funds to purchase units from a small sub-menu like Hero's spells. Granted i've gone through a lot of ideas for his moveset but this is the one i'm fond of most.

Andy is heavily rumored for SSF2 but i'd rather not talk about that here haha.

That's what I meant to imply with the other bullet point regarding Hajimari no Mori and Sin & Punishment / The Wonderful 101, I guess I could have added a sentence in the Wars bullet point but I figured it was a given, oh well. And while you're right about there being a lot of indie games being made today in response to the absence of Advance Wars, my only point was that even if there wasn't demand, a character from the Wars games would still be a worthwhile inclusion regardless.

Fair enough. This would be a worthwhile inclusion indeed.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Just to talk about the reason old character like Pit and Ice climbers was added in Smash back in the days, but today people don't see old characters like this happening in the fighter pass is simply because Sakurai didn't directly choose the character for the fighter pass. Characters like Ice climbers, Pit, R.O.B. and arguably, Ness for example are what I always call "Sakurai choices". They're basically characters that where choose because Sakurai love their franchises and have a lot of nostalgia through these games.

This time with the fighter pass Nintendo make a list for Sakurai. While it's unclear who exactly "Nintendo" is, I don't think that we will see pure Sakurai choices in the roster, such as classic character that are from older games. This is why I think that Isaac, advance wars rep, or even Rhythm heaven rep will not be happening. They could have happen if Sakurai had total freedom with the fighter pass, but this wasn't the case. I think that these type of characters might come back on the spotlight if we do have a Smash 6 and if Sakurai came back, but that's really unsure.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Characters like Ice climbers, Pit, R.O.B. and arguably, Ness for example are what I always call "Sakurai choices".

I think Ness got in because Creatures Inc. was a part of the dev team, and Earthbound was still fresh in their minds.

 

[Guynamednelson]

such as classic character that are from older games.

Nintendo Land featured a minigame based on The Mysterious Murasame Castle alongside ones from more expected franchises like Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing. Never say never.

 

[Garteam]

I think Ness got in because Creatures Inc. was a part of the dev team, and Earthbound was still fresh in their minds.

Keep in mind, as weird as it sounds, Earthbound was also a major Nintendo franchise during the release of the first Smash Bros game. 2 successful games with a hotly anticipated 3rd on the way was an impressive track record for a Nintendo franchise back then. Starfox and F-Zero only had two games, Metroid only had 3, and even Zelda only had 5 games.

The only thing the series was lacking was international success but I was imagining Nintendo was hoping the 64DD version of Mother 3 would turn that around.

 

[Ben Holt]

I really don't think that Crash is simply a "has-been" The N.sane trilogy has sold more than 10 millions units in February 2019. I was not able to find specific number about Nitro fueled, but apparently it did an even better launch than N.sane trilogy. Don't forget that Crash, despite being a Western mascot, is also really big in Japan, so that helps.

I personally think that the biggest problem with Crash will come when dealing with Activision. I don't know if Nintendo will want to deal with Western developpers, with some exceptions if they already have a good relationship with them (like Microsoft). Also even if they do, I feel like Activision would ask way too much money.

Crash's (and Spyro's) slump came from shifting developers, not natural falloff.
Sonic had a similar scenario when Yuji Naka, Sonic's creator left Sega. Sonic 06 happened, and the series had to refind itself with Colors and Generations.
Had Crash stayed with Naughty Dog, his series likely would have been as massively popular as Sonic, but fate had something else in mind.
Luckily, it seems that Activision (whom I normally hate, but I'll set that aside) has found a stable home for Crash and is using his original games as inspiration for future games to catch lightning in a bottle once more like he did in the late 90s.
Remember that Future Tense is a fully original new level in the N. Sane Trilogy, and if Activision plays their cards right, I see a bright future for the Bandicoot.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Crash's (and Spyro's) slump came from shifting developers, not natural falloff.
Sonic had a similar scenario when Yuji Naka, Sonic's creator left Sega. Sonic 06 happened, and the series had to refind itself with Colors and Generations.
Had Crash stayed with Naughty Dog, his series likely would have been as massively popular as Sonic, but fate had something else in mind.
Luckily, it seems that Activision (whom I normally hate, but I'll set that aside) has found a stable home for Crash and is using his original games as inspiration for future games to catch lightning in a bottle once more like he did in the late 90s.
Remember that Future Tense is a fully original new level in the N. Sane Trilogy, and if Activision plays their cards right, I see a bright future for the Bandicoot.

Mega Man likely had issues with this as well, though over saturating the market might have been a factor as well. That and Capcom seemed to be dropping the ball in all of its franchises what with literally everything Mega Man being canceled, Marvel Vs. Capcom: Infinite, Street Fighter 5, and DMC: Devil May Cry (Let us hope no Smash game is ever called SSB: Super Smash Bros.).

 

[Us3inMN]

(Let us hope no Smash game is ever called SSB: Super Smash Bros.).

Calling it now, SSB: Super Smash Bros. is going to be the title for Smash 6.

 

[Ben Holt]

Mega Man likely had issues with this as well, though over saturating the market might have been a factor as well. That and Capcom seemed to be dropping the ball in all of its franchises what with literally everything Mega Man being canceled, Marvel Vs. Capcom: Infinite, Street Fighter 5, and DMC: Devil May Cry (Let us hope no Smash game is ever called SSB: Super Smash Bros.).

I think Mega Man lost popularity due to the advent of larger games.
You just can't sell a 2D platformer with 12 (8 robot masters / mavericks + 4 ending levels) linear levels as a Triple A experience anymore.
New Super Mario Bros U and Tropical Freeze have over 80 levels with bonus goodies to find.
Mega Man 9 and 10 were fun retro throwbacks that probably started the craze of retro-style games like Shovel Knight, and Mega Man 11 was a fun little romp, but these are shorter budget games.
This is probably one of my most controversial video game opinions, but it's time for Mega Man to modernize. Full open 3D levels, break the 8 masters, 4 Wily levels formula, and make a full $60 experience.
Perhaps Mega Man could be like a futuristic Zelda game where the robot masters are in "dungeons", and you use the powers obtained by them in the overworld to solve puzzles and get to new areas. It would be non-linear, of course, as Mega Man started the trend of choose your own order.
Or at least that's my dream as a guy who grew up with the Blue Bomber and wants to see his triumphant return to glory.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think Mega Man lost popularity due to the advent of larger games.
You just can't sell a 2D platformer with 12 (8 robot masters / mavericks + 4 ending levels) linear levels as a Triple A experience anymore.
New Super Mario Bros U and Tropical Freeze have over 80 levels with bonus goodies to find.
Mega Man 9 and 10 were fun retro throwbacks that probably started the craze of retro-style games like Shovel Knight, and Mega Man 11 was a fun little romp, but these are shorter budget games.
This is probably one of my most controversial video game opinions, but it's time for Mega Man to modernize. Full open 3D levels, break the 8 masters, 4 Wily levels formula, and make a full $60 experience.
Perhaps Mega Man could be like a futuristic Zelda game where the robot masters are in "dungeons", and you use the powers obtained by them in the overworld to solve puzzles and get to new areas. It would be non-linear, of course, as Mega Man started the trend of choose your own order.
Or at least that's my dream as a guy who grew up with the Blue Bomber and wants to see his triumphant return to glory.

I mean, we had Mega Man Legends and that got canceled too, so maybe Capcom just sucked back then.

 

[Ben Holt]

I mean, we had Mega Man Legends and that got canceled too, so maybe Capcom just sucked back then.

To be fair, that was the Capcom that sold "DLC" to unlock content already on the disc.
Maybe that's why so many companies sell unfinished discs that require 10,000 patches.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is probably one of my most controversial video game opinions, but it's time for Mega Man to modernize. Full open 3D levels, break the 8 masters, 4 Wily levels formula, and make a full $60 experience.

Eh, let's leave the 3D stuff to the Mega Man Legends series. Mega Man X levels seem to be a bit more open ended, so I could see them turning it into a Metroidvania. As for the classic series...Adding stages to the classic games tends to feel more like padding (like the Doc Robot stages from Mega Man 3), and it almost always injects a bait and switch plot into the game (Dr. Cossack/Proto Man/Mr. X is evil?!? Nope it's Wily. *Shocked Pikachu face*). Adding more Robot Masters would likely cause the weapons to drop in quality and/or balance.

 

[DarthEnderX]

They don't have to add many characters, they just have to be better balanced. If the remaining two characters are third party, that's 50% of this game's unique newcomers being third party. Far from the ratios of all the previous games.

Because when the previous games were being made, there were still good Nintendo characters that weren't in Smash yet.

That becomes less and less the case with each game.

As for the classic series...Adding stages to the classic games tends to feel more like padding (like the Doc Robot stages from Mega Man 3), and it almost always injects a bait and switch plot into the game (Dr. Cossack/Proto Man/Mr. X is evil?!? Nope it's Wily. *Shocked Pikachu face*). Adding more Robot Masters would likely cause the weapons to drop in quality and/or balance.

Something I had hoped they would do for MM11, but sadly didn't, was add a second round of Robot Masters. But not new Robot Masters, but instead bring back the Mega Man 1/Powered Up RMs.

So you fight through the first 8 stages of new RMs, then you'd fight through the fortress of the game's fakeout boss, then, instead of going right a 2nd fortress with Wily like in 5-6, you'd unlock 8 more stages where you fight the MM1 RMs again, then you do the Wily Fortress.

But, like you said, you don't want to have to try and balance 16 different subweapons. So what they should have done instead is have each of the MM1 RMs give you an upgrade to the MM11 RMs weapons.

So, for example, defeating Elec Man upgrades Fuse Man's weapon. Defeating Ice Man upgrades Tundra Man's Weapon. Defeating Fire Man upgrades Torch Man's weapon. etc.

Then, in MM12, you'd fight 8 new robot masters, followed by the return of the MM2 RMs. And so on.

 

[Renjamin]

Eh, to me he's pretty much a lock, but it's not like we really know anything.
He has a LOT going for him though:
-The recent rereleases of Doom 1-3 in Japan have only come out on Switch
-Bethesda is really supporting the Switch big time
-Doom Eternal is one of the very few current-gen titles that we're getting on Switch too, and mostly in time
-Doom's affiliation to Nintendo as a franchise goes way back (it appeared on the SNES and on the GBA and the N64 even has an exclusive episode)
-Bethesda apparently has talked about Smash with Nintendo
-Hines said that there will be surprises for Nintendo fans
-It's my opinion, but Doom as a series really gives that Nintendo feel (or, as Mark Brown said, it's "the most Nintendo game that Nintendo will never make")
-Again my opinion, but Doom just fits with the direction that the Fighter Pass and 3rd party characters in Smash in general have taken
-That last interview where they kinda outed themselves, lol, though it could also mean nothing

I think your ignoring the biggest reason he's a likely addition. Last august if you remember the internet was in hysterics about Luigi's fate post the Simon reveal trailer, it seemed he was dead but in the following months he still managed to have perfect attendance in all Mario's endeavors Mario Maker, Mario Party and even Smash! (Hell he's even set to have his own adventure in October) Now the obvious assumption is that as he's seen re-entering his body at the end of the trailer he just walked out, but the castle would still be swarming with monsters there's no way he could fight them all off. Well if you cast your mind back to this time of hardship you'll remember the OFFICIAL Doom Twitter claimed they would bravely try to save Luigi from the monsters of the afterlife and given how Luigi's clearly still alive it appears their mission was successful so Nintendo owes Doom guy one

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I think your ignoring the biggest reason he's a likely addition. Last august if you remember the internet was in hysterics about Luigi's fate post the Simon reveal trailer, it seemed he was dead but in the following months he still managed to have perfect attendance in all Mario's endeavors Mario Maker, Mario Party and even Smash! (Hell he's even set to have his own adventure in October) Now the obvious assumption is that as he's seen re-entering his body at the end of the trailer he just walked out, but the castle would still be swarming with monsters there's no way he could fight them all off. Well if you cast your mind back to this time of hardship you'll remember the OFFICIAL Doom Twitter claimed they would bravely try to save Luigi from the monsters of the afterlife and given how Luigi's clearly still alive it appears their mission was successful so Nintendo owes Doom guy one

Or maybe that trailer was just not canon in the Mario lore (if the Mario universe even have a lore). I mean honestly I agree that Doomguy have a lot going on for him, but saying that this is the biggest reason is really a stretch. It's not like Nintendo will just stop using Luigi, one of their most popular character from their biggest franchises, just because of a trailer.

 

[RileyXY1]

Or maybe that trailer was just not canon in the Mario lore (if the Mario universe even have a lore). I mean honestly I agree that Doomguy have a lot going on for him, but saying that this is the biggest reason is really a stretch. It's not like Nintendo will just stop using Luigi, one of their most popular character from their biggest franchises, just because of a trailer.

Especially considering that Mario himself was also killed in a trailer.

 

[SKX31]

Especially considering that Mario himself was also killed in a trailer.

If they did another B-K and built on a previous trailer, then Mario (and Megaman) would make way more sense. They were killed on a space station's bridge - a perfect cue / fit for a Doomguy trailer.

For example: demons - having allied themselves with Ridley - pull Mario and Megaman with them to Hell. While the two fight valiantly, they are on the verge of defeat when BFG Division starts in the background.

If they did a B-K with Luigi's death, then Jill Valentine or any other RE / horror character would make the most sense. Dracula's Castle is not far removed from zombies and the mansions associated with RE after all.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Because when the previous games were being made, there were still good Nintendo characters that weren't in Smash yet.

That becomes less and less the case with each game

According to you.

 

[RileyXY1]

According to you.

You're right. Nintendo can also create new IPs that eventually get representation in Smash, like with Splatoon. ARMS and Astral Chain might get a similar fate, depending on the latter's sales numbers of course.

 

[YezenIRl]

They don't have to add many characters, they just have to be better balanced. If the remaining two characters are third party, that's 50% of this game's unique newcomers being third party. Far from the ratios of all the previous games.

We might be going in circles at this point. As I said before, there is a reason they are going with more Third Parties this time around. The roster has expanded to an abnormal size and the characters/series that are left, just don't measure up to the ones that are there. Last Smash, the new Nintendo series we got were Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Mii, Punch Out, and Xenoblade. This time we got Splatoon (a new, massively popular IP), but after that Sakurai seemingly decided he didn't want to do a bunch of obscure revivals or add "next in line characters" to represented series. Probably because he ran out of time and Nintendo decided the fighter pass should be third party. At a certain point you just have to accept that there are no rules and Nintendo isn't beholden to any ratio.

Also the notion that there aren't as many unrepresented franchise is just false. Nintendo has dozens of franchises that could have playable characters.

Well obviously. But are they big enough? Are they iconic enough? Why do you think those series haven't been added yet? Do you think it's just malice or is there a good reason?

Hero went the way of using all the spells, Crono would team up with Marle and Lucca to do a bunch of different techs n' stuff, and Isaac...well I dunno

How do we know that is how he would play?

but to say that they wouldn't be distinct or unique as characters is going a bit far.

That's not what I said. Again, I'm just trying to get people not to go all out in any one direction, calling them entirely unique or repetitive. I'm not saying they'd be clones or wouldn't have unique movesets. I'm just saying there is a lot of overlap between three spikey haired JRPG anime sword mage silent protagonists, so they wouldn't want to add them simultaneously, or perhaps in the same game.

I'm saying a lineup of [Hero, Banjo, Doomguy], is inherently more unique than a lineup of [Crono, Hero, Isaac]. Or [Solaire, Dovahkiin, Gerahlt].