Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[DrifloonEmpire]

Spoiler: Remember this?

What just happened, did it point toward to something else not smash related?

Unless it's hinting towards a character related to birds, stars, or Norse mythology, it's likely just a cryptic vague puzzle to mess with people.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Spoiler: Remember this?

What just happened, did it point toward to something else not smash related?

According to Fatmanonice, the source shared more image hints, but he's not sure if he can share them. If they're all related, though, he said it seems it's likely not related to Geno in Smash (as was speculated previously), but something else. We don't know what, though, it's not Fire Emblem according to the source.

edit: of course, the other images might not be related to the starling, none of us know. Apparently Sabi has said they might not be.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Norse mythology

Well, we did get a fighter whose stage is Yggdrasil.

Whoops!

 

[ze9]

Or it could simply be that the selection of Corrin was different to those of the trio, plus if we go by Sakurai's comments then we would also have to take Castlevania into consideration and that one is not visible at all. Corrin was selected due to Sakurai wanting to have a recent character but also has to be attributed to the fact that they didn't need an extra stage at all.

Corrin was a purely promotional pick (as well as the 6th Fire Emblem character, 4th in a row) and was very bad received for that. He's easily the worst received Smash character ever.
A 3H character wouldn't be received as badly since if nothing else the game is actually already out, but I think they'll shy away from characters like those for a while. Ultimate has taken a completely different direction both in the base game and in the DLC, a direction more similar to the one that Brawl, Melee and 64 had. Less necessarily tied to recent games and more doing its own thing. Which is good.

K. Rool always seemed to have gained a lot of support when a lot of people gave up on Ridley for the DLC period in Sm4sh.

That would be Dark Samus, if anything. K. Rool always had support.

 

[N3ON]

If Corrin sold less than the other DLC characters, which I'm sure they did, they probably have learned.
The "vocal minorities" argument hasn't had a lot of luck lately.

I don't think Nintendo is so out to touch to have expected Corrin to be able to perform on-par with characters the fanbase is more familiar with, like past vets or just big characters in gaming. The purpose of the addition was promotional, not to provide the audience with a huge name.

And to that end, the character was probably successful enough to warrant future additions of that intent, were Nintendo so inclined.

 

[ze9]

I don't think Nintendo is so out to touch to have expected Corrin to be able to perform on-par with characters the fanbase is more familiar with, like past vets or just big characters in gaming. The purpose of the addition was promotional, not to provide the audience with a huge name.

And to that end, the character was probably successful enough to warrant future additions of that intent, were Nintendo so inclined.

I'm not sure. The point it, he was really bad received online too. At least everywhere I looked, the reactions ranged from sheer blind rage to resigned acceptance. There was really no enthusiasm at all, and even sales aside, that's not a good thing.
Sure you can say "vocal minorities!!", but we have empirical evidence that internet's vocal minorities are probably bigger than what you'd think

 

[N3ON]

I'm not sure. The point it, he was really bad received online too. At least everywhere I looked, the reactions ranged from sheer blind rage to resigned acceptance. There was really no enthusiasm at all, and even sales aside, that's not a good thing.
Sure you can say "vocal minorities!!", but we have empirical evidence that internet's vocal minorities are probably bigger than what you'd think

Well, you can't really put sales aside, since sales are tangible metric for success, and online voices are usually a contingent of a fraction of the audience that amplifies negativity louder than positivity. They can add as many fan-favourites as they see fit, there's a market there as well, but if the characters unpopular online still sell to a degree they find sufficient, or channel enough activity towards the game they're promoting, from the perspective of the company, there'd be no reason to curb that kind of addition.

To that end, I'm not disputing Corrin probably sold the worst, but simply by virtue of the fanbase being rabid and large, I imagine Corrin performed at least to expectation, should those expectations have accounted for the fact that the character was by far the least known.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't think Nintendo is so out to touch to have expected Corrin to be able to perform on-par with characters the fanbase is more familiar with, like past vets or just big characters in gaming. The purpose of the addition was promotional, not to provide the audience with a huge name.

And to that end, the character was probably successful enough to warrant future additions of that intent, were Nintendo so inclined.

Fates was very poorly received in the West, and even if there are plenty of in-game reasons for that, I can't shake the feeling that Corrin's controversial addition to Smash might have contributed. So I wouldn't be too quick to call it a success.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Sure you can say "vocal minorities!!", but we have empirical evidence that internet's vocal minorities are probably bigger than what you'd think

You haven't shown that the groups requesting those characters and the group dissatisfied with Corrin are sufficiently close in size. Neither have you shown that both the groups requesting characters and the group dissatisfied with Corrin correlate with similar numbers of sales gained and sales lost.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I'm sure there was also a percentage that also bought Corrin simply to have the full roster, regardless of opinion.

 

[N3ON]

Fates was very poorly received in the West, and even if there are plenty of in-game reasons for that, I can't shake the feeling that Corrin's controversial addition to Smash might have contributed. So I wouldn't be too quick to call it a success.

The game might've been polarizing, but it was definitely successful critically and commercially.

 

[Opossum]

Fates was very poorly received in the West, and even if there are plenty of in-game reasons for that, I can't shake the feeling that Corrin's controversial addition to Smash might have contributed. So I wouldn't be too quick to call it a success.

Fates sold incredibly well. It was controversial, but successful. To say it was received poorly is revisionism.

 

[ze9]

You haven't shown that the groups requesting those characters and the group dissatisfied with Corrin are sufficiently close in size. Neither have you shown that both the groups requesting characters and the group dissatisfied with Corrin correlate with similar numbers of sales gained and sales lost.

You didn't show the opposite either. Which is fair, since we have no hard data but only anecdotal evidence. Looking at Ultimate as a whole, though, I think it's pretty safe to say that they're not interested in using Smash strictly as a promotional tool again.

 

[Strong-Arm]

So what seems to be the general consensus on doomguy? It feels like a lot of ppl are kinda treating him like pre release ken aka just assuming hes in despite lack of evidence.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So what seems to be the general consensus on doomguy? It feels like a lot of ppl are kinda treating him like pre release ken aka just assuming hes in despite lack of evidence.

Eeh, personally I think he's possible, though definitely not a lock by any means.

While it's hard to determine a "general consensus" for anything in the Smash community, I think most people I talk to feel like if we're getting any other western character in the Pass, it's either him or Crash.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Fates sold incredibly well. It was controversial, but successful. To say it was received poorly is revisionism.

I never implied that the game didn't sell well, but it wasn't greatly received by fans.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Even then, there are a lot of possible western characters we shouldn't write off, for various reasons. Dragonborn, Frisk, or even a surprise in Steve, they're all strong western contenders.

 

[N3ON]

I never implied that the game didn't sell well, but it wasn't greatly received by fans.

If the inclusion got people to check out the game, it served its purpose. If the game then had questionable elements, that's not Smash's doing.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

So what seems to be the general consensus on doomguy? It feels like a lot of ppl are kinda treating him like pre release ken aka just assuming hes in despite lack of evidence.

The mannerisms and Freudian slip from the 2 Bethesda reps who were interviewed seem to indicate that he's a lock.

 

[N3ON]

Things are so open-ended right now that calling any character a lock is a bad idea, but Doom Slayer does seem to reside in the tier of characters perceived as "pretty plausible", which is about the best you can be right now.

Of course he's not alone in that echelon, but I wouldn't say any character is seen as having significantly better odds at the current. Though how much perception varies from reality remains to be seen.

 

[tenworldsguy]

Imagine Sakurai comes to you asking for input on the last dlc character. He'll put them in if you do a good job convincing him. What are the top five reasons you'd give to justify your single, most-wanted character? Sell your pick.

An advance wars rep (Louie for a while, but I fear Nintendo would just make him a bland Olimar clone) like Andy or Sami!
1) Series is important to Nintendo (it persuaded IS to release FE here, a smash success nowadays)
2) Series is important to Smash (We all know how well FE is repped in Smash, and it's very possible that had FE not been localized, it would have seen a much lesser Smash impact or even cancelation)
3) Series has been inactive for some time now (the last installment was on the DS, the same year as Brawl), and a rep would be an awesome way to rekindle interest in the series should they reboot it
4) Any rep could be interesting- a character using modern weaponry and guns? a character who's a non-anime human? a character who screams AMERICA? perhaps even a mech or tank user? check all. AW has a bunch of unique and dynamic systems in check to keep things fresh, so it's not even like a surge of AW reps could be boring and recieve "tank man bad" ala FE now
5) It'd be awesome, and smash is doing a criminal disservice by not including any maps or music from the games.

If they ain't gonna make PM great again, at least create a new AW game, @IS!

Edit: Andy is basically the figurehead for the series (Famicom Wars ignored), and Sami was planned for Project M, so why I named those two in particular. Any CO could work really well as a fighter- just let them use attacks based off units they as COs specialize in. Use a CO power as an FS, or if there's more AW reps in the future maybe even do some weird Dual Strike thing for doubles! The possibilities are very high, and I do believe many are sleeping on a potential AW reps' "cool" factor, even if they're extremely unlikely at this point.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Pretty much anything is ripples to waves, so we shouldn't even think about locking anything until we get concrete evidence.

 

[ze9]

So what seems to be the general consensus on doomguy? It feels like a lot of ppl are kinda treating him like pre release ken aka just assuming hes in despite lack of evidence.

Eh, to me he's pretty much a lock, but it's not like we really know anything.
He has a LOT going for him though:
-The recent rereleases of Doom 1-3 in Japan have only come out on Switch
-Bethesda is really supporting the Switch big time
-Doom Eternal is one of the very few current-gen titles that we're getting on Switch too, and mostly in time
-Doom's affiliation to Nintendo as a franchise goes way back (it appeared on the SNES and on the GBA and the N64 even has an exclusive episode)
-Bethesda apparently has talked about Smash with Nintendo
-Hines said that there will be surprises for Nintendo fans
-It's my opinion, but Doom as a series really gives that Nintendo feel (or, as Mark Brown said, it's "the most Nintendo game that Nintendo will never make")
-Again my opinion, but Doom just fits with the direction that the Fighter Pass and 3rd party characters in Smash in general have taken
-That last interview where they kinda outed themselves, lol, though it could also mean nothing

 

[Strong-Arm]

Eh, to me he's pretty much a lock, but it's not like we really know anything.
He has a LOT going for him though:
-The recent rereleases of Doom 1-3 in Japan have only come out on Switch
-Bethesda is really supporting the Switch big time
-Doom Eternal is one of the very few current-gen titles that we're getting on Switch too, and mostly in time
-Doom's affiliation to Nintendo as a franchise goes way back (it appeared on the SNES and on the GBA and the N64 even has an exclusive episode)
-Bethesda apparently has talked about Smash with Nintendo
-Hines said that there will be surprises for Nintendo fans
-It's my opinion, but Doom as a series really gives that Nintendo feel (or, as Mark Brown said, it's "the most Nintendo game that Nintendo will never make")
-Again my opinion, but Doom just fits with the direction that the Fighter Pass and 3rd party characters in Smash in general have taken
-That last interview where they kinda outed themselves, lol, though it could also mean nothing

Interview?

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Interview?

There was a Quakecon Doom interview a month ago where one of the speakers when asked about Mortal Combat, says "Oh yeah, Mortal Kombat... Super Smash Bros... yeah, that, that would be very cool." Followed by the other speaker looking at him suddenly before nodding. That could go either way. (And as a Dragonborn supporter that worries me greatly).

 

[Strong-Arm]

There was a Quakecon Doom interview a month ago where one of the speakers when asked about Mortal Combat, says "Oh yeah, Mortal Kombat... Super Smash Bros... yeah, that, that would be very cool." Followed by the other speaker looking at him suddenly before nodding. That could go either way. (And as a Dragonborn supporter that worries me greatly).

Why would it be concerning tho

 

[RileyXY1]

Why would it be concerning tho

Because Doomguy could get in instead of the Dragonborn, I believe.

 

[ze9]

Why would it be concerning tho

It's like, they ask one of the guys about Doomguy in Mortal Kombat, and he answers that stuff like that or, you know, Super Smash Brothers, would be cool.
As soon as he says "Super Smash Brothers" the other guy turns suddenly towards him with a concerned expression, like "hey WTF you weren't supposed to say that", than he stops a bit and he nods while regaing composure (almost like he realized that no NDA had been broken).
As I said, it may be nothing, but it's an interesting reaction. Not the one you'd have if your character's not in, I believe. You'd usually smile and lean back a bit or something like that.

 

[Dust319]

You didn't show the opposite either. Which is fair, since we have no hard data but only anecdotal evidence. Looking at Ultimate as a whole, though, I think it's pretty safe to say that they're not interested in using Smash strictly as a promotional tool again.

Yeah, Nintendo won’t use a character in smash to sell games again... oh wait...
https://www.smashbros.com/en_AU/fighter/72.html

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Here's the interview. I think people have overstated it.

https://youtu.be/dJ7ulqjS_Vg?t=429

 

[N3ON]

Tbf I think promoting DQ11 is a result of Hero being chosen, rather than the other way around, where Hero would've been chosen to promote DQ11.

 

[yeet123]

Tbf I think promoting DQ11 is a result of Hero being chosen, rather than the other way around, where Hero would've been chosen to promote DQ11.

Just give us BK/BT on Switch w/ Banjo....

 

[Deleted member]

Tbf I think promoting DQ11 is a result of Hero being chosen, rather than the other way around, where Hero would've been chosen to promote DQ11.

Nintendo promoting DQ11 would have come regardless if Hero was chosen or not, as they are publishing the game in the west (alongside pretty much every other DQ on Nintendo consoles)

 

[N3ON]

Nintendo promoting DQ11 would have come regardless if Hero was chosen or not, as they are publishing the game in the west (alongside pretty much every other DQ on Nintendo consoles)

I meant promoting DQ11 through Smash/Hero, not just in general.

Just give us BK/BT on Switch w/ Banjo....

Let's hope MS continues to be smart about which of their games would sell well on Switch.

 

[Nemuresu]

Y'know, sometimes I feel like people keep bringing Nintendo characters because they seem to have grown some kind of grudge against guests.

After seeing how well DQXI is doing in pre-orders thanks to Hero, I have even more reasons to not expect a Nintendo character unless they bring the same timing as it's happening here. If they really wanted Edelgard, then they would've done this already.

 

[Guynamednelson]

they seem to have grown some kind of grudge against guests.

More like they like both first and third-party characters, and know that the public isn't some machine that goes ERROR: CHARACTER DOES NOT EQUAL THIRD PARTY.

 

[Nemuresu]

More like they like both first and third-party characters, and know that the public isn't some machine that goes ERROR: CHARACTER DOES NOT EQUAL THIRD PARTY.

If it were that way, there wouldn't be people complaining about guest characters like crazy, and discussion surrounding promotional characters wouldn't sound like it went back to square one for what are, in my honest opinion, not really justified reasons.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If it were that way, there wouldn't be people complaining about guest characters like crazy, and discussion surrounding promotional characters wouldn't sound like it went back to square one for what are, in my honest opinion, not really justified reasons.

I think the expectation that all characters will be third party just rubs people the wrong way. It doesn't feel like first party characters were even considered, so naturally the people who are fans of Nintendo's characters are not going to feel like they're getting the same treatment.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I think the expectation that all characters will be third party just rubs people the wrong way. It doesn't feel like first party characters were even considered, so naturally the people who are fans of Nintendo's characters are not going to feel like they're getting the same treatment.

Especially with the mentality that Ridley and K. Rool were “enough” and with them we supposedly have everything Nintendo related we could ever need. Sure, those were some big spots, but to act like they were the only 1st Parties that ever mattered annoys a lot of fans of other 1st Parties.

 

[Idon]

Especially with the mentality that Ridley and K. Rool were “enough” and with them we supposedly have everything Nintendo related we could ever need. Sure, those were some big spots, but to act like they were the only 1st Parties that ever mattered annoys a lot of fans of other 1st Parties.

It's frustrating to see people's wants for other 1st party characters shot down with "YOU ALREADY GOT RIDLEY/K ROOL!!!"

Like, *****, you realize that just because those fanbases are loud as hell and have existed in their loud state for so long doesn't mean they represent the whole of the Nintendo fanbase, especially when one of them is a Villain in a long dormant series and the other is the villain from a game series a decade ago.

Why is it that the amount of 1st party characters matters more than what first party characters a person actually wants?