Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[N3ON]

You might as well band around Samurai Goroh if you're going to be supporting characters with unremarkable popularity from long dormant, relatively minor Nintendo series. At least with a single rep, F-Zero isn't punching above its weight like one could argue Mother is. It might be a cult favourite, but it's pretty much the smallest series on the roster bar some of those picks from the 80s. I don't mean to be harsh, but it's lucky to have two characters, even if one is a semi-clone, and it getting an original newcomer thirteen years after its last game, twenty-four years after its last international game, and when the current bar rests with protagonists from bigger, more successful series - all of which are also third-party, you're looking at some Smash bubble theorizing that would likely not even exist if Porky had a spirit.

The only, and I mean only chance the character really has is if Nintendo has some Mother release in the pipeline (something of actual significance - not a NSO re-release of Earthbound/Beginnings), which is never something to count on.

Grant said the same for Banjo. Look how that turned out.

You raise this every time as if people are more likely to lie instead of tell the truth.

If all the people currently insinuating their characters aren't in Smash are proven accurate, are you still going to raise Kirkhope like it's worthwhile banking on a rare exception?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Mother is a great series and all and a cult classic but I don't think it should have the same amount of reps (nor is it nearly as big as) as DK, Star Fox, and Kirby. Yes the representation is already wonky but let's not make it wonkier. There are a lot of other series that still could use more reps a lot more than Mother like Zelda, Xenoblade and the aforementioned three above.

 

[TheYungLink]

Mother is a great series and all and a cult classic but I don't think it should have the same amount of reps (nor is it nearly as big as) as DK, Star Fox, and Kirby. Yes the representation is already wonky but let's not make it wonkier. There are a lot of other series that still could use more reps a lot more than Mother like Zelda, Xenoblade and the aforementioned three above.

The only extra EarthBound character I'd take is Ninten as an Echo Fighter of Ness. If it's an echo I doubt people would complain too much, and that way we have all 3 games represented (and DK, Star Fox, and Kirby all have unique / semi-clone movesets so EarthBound as a series would only nominally match them in number of characters).

 

[Idon]

Guys, Earthbound/Mother is the defintion of "cult classic."
I mean literally if you look up cult classic game, Mother is the game that pops up.

That type of game cannot reasonably be expected to get more content when it already has 2 protagonists and plenty of stages and is to rub shoulders with Joker, DQHero, and Banjo. A new character, stage, and music for a series that an extremely small portion of the core fanbase wants isn't something I find plausible at all.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Ness and Lucas really ought to be alts/echoes of Paula, since they stole her moves.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The only extra EarthBound character I'd take is Ninten as an Echo Fighter of Ness. If it's an echo I doubt people would complain too much, and that way we have all 3 games represented (and DK, Star Fox, and Kirby all have unique / semi-clone movesets so EarthBound as a series would only nominally match them in number of characters).

Yup, that's what I said earlier. On top of that it would actually finally give us characters from all three games in the series, so it would actually be a greater representation in a way.

Ness and Lucas really ought to be alts/echoes of Paula, since they stole her moves.

Hey, I wouldn't mind. Bring in Kumatora and Poo as well and make them all echos and alts. Maybe Ana for Ninten as well.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

My roster has Ness, Lucas, Ninten, Ana, and Paula as alts for the same character and custom moves.

 

[ze9]

I'm a big Mother fan but I'm perfectly happy with the series representation. And then some.
I mean... 2 characters who are also pretty dinstinct, 4 stages, 2 assist trophies, 3 items, 11 music tracks (all remixed) and Magicant's boatload of cameos. We got the royal treatment, especially if we consider how small the series is.
Porky would be awesome, of course. But it's already fine.
Don't care about Ninten though, he's not different enough from Ness to even be a good echo.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Don't care about Ninten though, he's not different enough from Ness to even be a good echo.

... I take it you haven't played Earthbound Beginnings?

 

[DarthEnderX]

You might as well band around Samurai Goroh

Okay!

 

[ze9]

... I take it you haven't played Earthbound Beginnings?

I played it back when it was still known as Earthbound Zero.

 

[Curious Villager]

You raise this every time as if people are more likely to lie instead of tell the truth.

If all the people currently insinuating their characters aren't in Smash are proven accurate, are you still going to raise Kirkhope like it's worthwhile banking on a rare exception?

How many dev's have put down their characters as not being in the fighters pass already?
There are only two spots left so unless we are getting a second fighters pass, It's pretty likely that most of the dev's who said their characters aren't in are most likely telling the truth. regardless of one rare exception.

That doesn't mean you have to write these characters off completely mind you, but chances are probably higher than not that the given characters turned down are not in. So it might be for the best to keep expectations low eitherway.

That's just me though.

 

[YoshiandToad]

...regardless of one rare exception.

...I see what you did there.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Look, I don’t expect another Mother character, I just found it weird to write off Porky for anything more than the usual 3rd-party speculation or the possibility of Ninten getting in instead if they decided to add another Mother character.

I don’t care about how much representation a game has, I just want/hope for certain characters and stuff like everyone else. We don’t “need” anymore characters or stuff from any franchise, we just want stuff.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Look, I don’t expect another Mother character, I just found it weird to write off Porky for anything more than the usual 3rd-party speculation or the possibility of Ninten getting in instead if they decided to add another Mother character.

I mainly just want people to understand that if a Nintendo character not having a spirit is important, Porky has competition besides Sylux/3H/Gen 8.

 

[RileyXY1]

I mainly just want people to understand that if a Nintendo character not having a spirit is important, Porky has competition besides Sylux/3H/Gen 8.

People are only claiming that Sylux is getting in because "he would be important later" when MP4 essentially started all over from scratch and was delayed indefinitely.

 

[yeet123]

How big is the Tales series exactly?

I feel like Lloyd's chances are slim considering his competition... like compared to a RE character, DOOM Slayer/Guy, Crash, Hayabusa, Master Chief, Lara Croft...... I feel like he would only have a chance because he's a Namco rep. But then you have Tekken to consider as well.

Tales would be a limp noodle/wet fart/heavy sigh of a character addition. Hopefully DQ's 4 different spiky haired sword bois fulfilled everyone's needs for spiky haired sword bois.

 

[SvartWolf]

However, he wasn't the main antagonist if that game. Gigyas was.
.

Ridley and Wolf.

The most memorable gygas wouldn't even work as a character, and the mother one gygas is too obscure compared to even other characters of teh same saga.

I don't think porky is likely, unless a second DLC or maybe he will come back as a boss, but that he is not the main antagonist of earthbound/Mother 2 isn't a good reason.

I also think that an undertale/deltarune rep is usually slept off, although if we get an undertale rep i highly doubt it will be sans... (maybe a boss/assist :3).

For some reason I also still think that doomguy is likely, even if i don't really believe any of the leaks containing him... i just think that he would complement the whole pack waay too good and he has waay too much smash potential.

Ryu hayabusa i'm a little torn, i'm not a super fan, and i don't think he would bring too much outside having all teh NES biggest classics on smash, and i don't particulary love him so much, but is also true that the character have stayed healthy for a friggin long time, and with the amount of indie hits having inspiration from ninja gaiden, i may be underrating ninja gaiden importance.

I don't think Dark souls stuff is likely... but i don't think is imposible and it would be teh sweetest surprise ever.

I wasn't sold on shantae until the studio trigger trailer. not safe guess.. but it does raises my eyebrows, she has points like doomguy for IMO bringing a lot of variety and potential to teh smash pass.

Not putting my hands for dante, specially after joker, but it would be funny if that old rumour we had ended being true.

Also not completely ruling out steve, i've always though that Banjo and steve could perfectly coexist and aren't directly competing for spots, but wouldn't put my hands on fire for him either.

I though that crash had big chances, but now with banjo i feel he would be a little redundant. yeah, we alreadyt have 2 JRPG protagonist, but one is directly from one of the most modern and fresh take of rpgs, and the other is from the most clasical and traditional JRPGS. i don't think that 2 plataformer mascots from the time of the 3d revolution are likely.

I think that teh best balance is achieved with Undertale rep/shantae and doomguy or other memorable western shooter figure like gordon freeman.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

What's the general consensus on Doom Slayer's chances?

 

[tenworldsguy]

I mainly just want people to understand that if a Nintendo character not having a spirit is important, Porky has competition besides Sylux/3H/Gen 8.

We're FS not getting a three houses or Gen 8 rep.
If Rex, a character Sakurai actively wanted in, was denied for DLC on grounds of being too late, why on earth would he reserve a slot for some random fire emblem or pokemon in the future, knowing fully that the game is extremely oversaturated with em as is and the fans are sick of it?
Porky and Sylux are troubled not because of "MP4 Delay" or anything, but most notably their series already has both stages and spirits. Being in the Pass appears that your series cannot be repped in any way in SmUsh, seeing as how they've been doing DLC Spirit Boards so far.

Maybe if they release a Pass 2 featuring only first party characters. If that's the case, I think then Sakurai will bend the rules w spirits entirely for the mentioned Rex. But this is a huge "if", and if it happens it's gonna be at least a year down the line.

I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU! Very high around here, people say. I think the openness to Betheseda on Smash kind of deconfirms him personally (they wouldn't be so open if he's actually in) but that's just me

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Don't care about Ninten though, he's not different enough from Ness to even be a good echo.

I agree. I know he has different PSI abilities but his physical design is literally the same as Ness's, but his hat's the other way and his shirt has more, thinner stripes. I'm sure even mega fans would get the two mixed up in the heat of battle. Sure if you were to look up Ninten on google images or whatever you would find different (and semi-consistent) designs that they would go with but I have yet to see these redesigns in official material.

What's the general consensus on Doom Slayer's chances?

He has to contend with the Dragonborn but stranger things have happened.

Maybe if they release a Pass 2 featuring only first party characters. If that's the case, I think then Sakurai will bend the rules w spirits entirely for the mentioned Rex. But this is a huge "if", and if it happens it's gonna be at least a year down the line.

How do you "bend" rules that were made up by fans due to conjecture and thus don't technically exist?

 

[yeet123]

What's the general consensus on Doom Slayer's chances?

I think most people on here would agree that Doom's chances are alot higher compared to many other characters. Bethesda and Nintendo have talked about Smash, Doom has supported Switch (Doom port, classic Doom ports, Doom Eternal is on the way).

While not concrete evidence at all, Doom Guy has been rumored for quite some time. He also represents a genre that has no representation in Smash, the FPS.

 

[RileyXY1]

I agree. I know he has different PSI abilities but his physical design is literally the same as Ness's, but his hat's the other way and his shirt has more, thinner stripes. I'm sure even mega fans would get the two mixed up in the heat of battle. Sure if you were to look up Ninten on google images or whatever you would find different (and semi-consistent) designs that they would go with but I have yet to see these redesigns in official material.

The commonly established redesign for Ninten (giving him a scarf and a red, blue, and white striped shirt) actually originated from an ad for the original game. It's wasn't made up by the fans.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Tales would be a limp noodle/wet fart/heavy sigh of a character addition. Hopefully DQ's 4 different spiky haired sword bois fulfilled everyone's needs for spiky haired sword bois.

Except Tales and Dragon Quest are completely different series and having one does not fulfill the other. Speak for yourself, Tales would be an amazing addition to Smash.

 

[YoshiandToad]

What's the general consensus on Doom Slayer's chances?

Probably in the top 5 most popularly theorised characters on these boards alongside Crash Bandicoot, a Resident Evil character, Ryu Hayabusa and a Tales character. I'd say he's top 3 most predicted even.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU! Very high around here, people say. I think the openness to Betheseda on Smash kind of deconfirms him personally (they wouldn't be so open if he's actually in) but that's just me

The amount of openness Bethesda has been regarding talks with Nintendo is about on par with Phil Spencer's openness with Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The commonly established redesign for Ninten (giving him a scarf and a red, blue, and white striped shirt) actually originated from an ad for the original game. It's wasn't made up by the fans.

Hmm. In that case it could be done, but the dev team might consider it off limits like how nothing from the Pokémon anime was placed in the game. Would make a great secret costume for Ness though.

 

[yeet123]

Except Tales and Dragon Quest are completely different series and having one does not fulfill the other. Speak for yourself, Tales would be an amazing addition to Smash.

I never said they were the same series, but a Tales rep would be underwhelming as ****. There's no demand for it, the characters are aesthetically similar to a majority of the Smash roster, and there are plenty of other unique reps to choose from. Tales could/probably should be in Smash one day...

 

[GoodGrief741]

I never said they were the same series, but a Tales rep would be underwhelming as ****. There's no demand for it, the characters are aesthetically similar to a majority of the Smash roster, and there are plenty of other unique reps to choose from. Tales could/probably should be in Smash one day...

'There is no demand for a Tales character in Smash'

Bro have we been existing in parallel universes until now?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...the characters are aesthetically similar to a majority of the Smash roster, and there are plenty of other unique reps to choose from.

This combined with the fact that Lloyd isn't magic (and thus wouldn't be incredibly unique among the sword characters) he would generate a lot of hate for anyone that wasn't already aware and supportive of the character.

 

[RileyXY1]

This combined with the fact that Lloyd isn't magic (and thus wouldn't be incredibly unique among the sword characters) he would generate a lot of hate for anyone that wasn't already aware and supportive of the character.

I agree. A Tales rep would be too similar to characters already on the roster and wouldn't appeal to new demographics.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Doesn't Lloyd dual-wield? I can see him being unique just because of that.

I don't really care either way, but it's not like he'd be a Marth or Link clone. Not even a semi-clone.

Hmm. In that case it could be done, but the dev team might consider it off limits like how nothing from the Pokémon anime was placed in the game. Would make a great secret costume for Ness though.

Ninten could still look different with thicker blue stripes and his blue shoes, maybe his face could be a little different (since it already is different from Ness's based on their clay models; admittedly though they may likely just use the same head model Ness and Lucas use). The tuft of hair poking out of his cap is also different.

And anime stuff has actually been used a lot. Ash is even namedropped in Smash 4. Melee's Misty trophy uses her anime design. Heck, all the Pokémon are based on the anime even if it's just voices; also, Ash-Greninja.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Doesn't Lloyd dual-wield? I can see him being unique just because of that.

I don't really care either way, but it's not like he'd be a Marth or Link clone. Not even a semi-clone.

Lloyd's dual wielding is mostly for flavor. He would be a unique (and probably really fun) fighter in terms of movesets but he still wouldn't do anything we haven't seen before from the twelve (not counting echoes, Pit, or Joker) other sword characters.

EDIT: Other than being flashy I guess. His skills are pretty cool looking.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

This combined with the fact that Lloyd isn't magic (and thus wouldn't be incredibly unique among the sword characters) he would generate a lot of hate for anyone that wasn't already aware and supportive of the character.

Generate hate from a demographic that isn’t even being taking seriously in the first place with Hero (and shouldn’t be taken seriously).

You wanna complain about all those generic fist fighters we have in Smash?

 

[Ben Holt]

What's the general consensus on Doom Slayer's chances?

I think 100%. I'm sold on the Google Leak.
But that's certainly not the consensus.

 

[Koopaul]

You wanna complain about all those generic fist users we have in Smash?

Uh, a lot of those characters barely use their fists like Villager and Sonic. Secondly I think people are just sick of the general JRPG sword wielding protagonist types. If there was a sword user that looked realy different I don't think as many people would mind. Like if they put in Samurai Goroh or something. Even the Black Lnight from Fire Emblem would prpbably be more accepted because he's atleast an antagonist.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Generate hate for a demographic that isn’t even being taking seriously in the first place with Hero (and shouldn’t be taken seriously).

You wanna complain about all those generic fist users we have in Smash?

To be fair, most characters have hands and feet so complaining about fist fighters would probably be a false equivalence to people complaining about the volume of sword boys and girls.

Swords are just the most stock generic weapon in fantasy settings.

And tbf Villager and Snake use a variety of weapons to fight so including them as fist fighters is like including Kirby as a swordsman.

 

[Ben Holt]

Uh, a lot of those characters barely use their fists like Villager and Sonic. Secondly I think people are just sick of the general JRPG sword wielding protagonist types. If there was a sword user that looked realy different I don't think as many people would mind. Like if they put in Samurai Goroh or something. Even the Black Lnight from Fire Emblem would prpbably be more accepted because he's atleast an antagonist.

I don't think Sakurai's concerned about meeting quotas.
By the same logic, I don't think Crash is any less likely because of Banjo-Kazooie being an anthropomorphic platforming mascot.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Generate hate for a demographic that isn’t even being taking seriously in the first place with Hero (and shouldn’t be taken seriously).

I don't really like the mentality but from what I've seen the majority of Smash fans are like this. (At least in the west)

You wanna complain about all those generic fist users we have in Smash?

Not really no. To be clear I'm not saying Lloyd would be boring, just that he would set the Smash community off pretty badly especially since he won't have any cool mechanics like the Hero does.

EDIT: Though I guess people are more angry about Hero because of his mechanic so I dunno. To be honest I find the community's tendency to say "I don't like this get it out of my sight" to be highly annoying.

Uh, a lot of those characters barely use their fists like Villager and Sonic. Secondly I think people are just sick of the general JRPG sword wielding protagonist types. If there was a sword user that looked realy different I don't think as many people would mind. Like if they put in Samurai Goroh or something. Even the Black Lnight from Fire Emblem would prpbably be more accepted because he's atleast an antagonist.

Considering that the term "anime swordsman" used to be exclusively for the Fire Emblem cast I think you're right. Except for the Black Knight thing. I think he'll still get hate for being a Fire Emblem character.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I don't really like the mentality but from what I've seen the majority of Smash fans are like this. (At least in the west)

Not really no. To be clear I'm not saying Lloyd would be boring, just that he would set the Smash community off pretty badly especially since he won't have any cool mechanics like the Hero does.

EDIT: Though I guess people are more angry about Hero because of his mechanic so I dunno. To be honest I find the community's tendency to say "I don't like this get it out of my sight" to be highly annoying.


Considering that the term "anime swordsman" used to be exclusively for the Fire Emblem cast I think you're right. Except for the Black Knight thing. I think he'll still get hate for being a Fire Emblem character.

"Majority" of fans more being like a vocal minority. I don't think Sakurai or Nintendo particularly cared about this vocal minority when choosing Hero and Chrom for Ultimate, so they certainly shouldn't have any sway over character choices in the future either. Lloyd is from a completely different series with its own rich history, both in overall gaming and Nintendo, particularly in RPGs. Those who would get "set off" can go pound sand like they did for all the previous "anime swordsman" that they raged over.