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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Super Flygon

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Nintendo Pass: Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Geno, Kass & Rex.

Echo Pass: Impa (Sheik), Obstagoon (Incineroar), Ninten (Ness), Black Shadow (Falcon) and Octoling (Inkling).

I excluded characters that are already in the game as Assist Trophies or other prominent elements, which did make this somewhat harder. Also, I think the echoes should just be Nintendo characters.
 
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Playstation Guy 1000

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Let's try an interesting query: Characters you think are underrated in the community in having a chance of being among the Last 2 Challenger Pack choices. Not gonna do Overrated because that is a well best left untouched but the flipside seems more fun.
I Honestly think Ryu Hayabusa is an underrated choice in terms of having a chance to be in the fighters pass.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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Let's try an interesting query: Characters you think are underrated in the community in having a chance of being among the Last 2 Challenger Pack choices. Not gonna do Overrated because that is a well best left untouched but the flipside seems more fun.
Neku
Any big indie character not from Undertale
First party characters.

(A lot of other characters are underrated, but I won't bother including them, because their chances are still much lower than the above.)
 
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Ura

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Let's try an interesting query: Characters you think are underrated in the community in having a chance of being among the Last 2 Challenger Pack choices. Not gonna do Overrated because that is a well best left untouched but the flipside seems more fun.
I'll start.
This is coming as no surprise from me and obviously I speak from a place of personal bias but I honestly believe Andy and/or Sami are a bit overlooked for their chances.

People are quick to bring up Andy's Spirit as a death blow but you also got to see the really odd situation with Advance Wars in Ultimate. It's the only franchise with more than two Spirits (4 total) to not have any representation anywhere else. It's Assist Trophy from Brawl & Smash 4 is mysteriously absent and unlike all the other smaller series that got Mii Costumes, there was none for the series. Top that off with no music added for the series, several of it's important characters missing as Spirits, among other smaller things and I feel like this series honestly has a chance. Not a particularly great chance mind you but enough for me to believe it has a shot pending if Nintendo is willing to bring the series back. (Intelligent Systems plz)

Also for what it's worth, I honestly believe Sami could be marketed towards a female audience given her sort of "kawaii, badass" vibe she has going on for her. I mean she is a "literally who" in the grand scheme of things (much like Andy) but much like the latter, she has a look and a moveset that could easily sell herself and broaden the appeal of the Fighters Pass. People wouldn't even have to know about her to fall in love with the character and she could borrow assets from Snake/ZSS. Sami wasn't even included as a Spirit which is even more suspicious given her popularity.

Aside from Advance Wars, I tend to think people kinda circle around the same group of characters which is usually Doomguy, Hayabusa, Crash, someone from Capcom, and someone from Bandai Namco. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we got left field choices like a Skyrim character instead of Doomguy or an Undertale character given those series have broad appeal beyond Smash's fanbase. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if any of the 5 I mentioned above ended up in the Pass.
 
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OrpheusTelos

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Let's try an interesting query: Characters you think are underrated in the community in having a chance of being among the Last 2 Challenger Pack choices. Not gonna do Overrated because that is a well best left untouched but the flipside seems more fun.
I'll start.
View attachment 235074
I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but I still think Frisk is super overlooked compared to other characters. I also think Dark Souls is a dark horse when it comes to likely Bamco picks just because of how big that series in
 

Ura

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I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but I still think Frisk is super overlooked compared to other characters. I also think Dark Souls is a dark horse when it comes to likely Bamco picks just because of how big that series in
Yeah I honestly believe Undertale would have a big appeal to a younger demographic which is what the Pass is going for. I'd say an Undertale rep is overlooked and has a decent chance of happening. The series is also really popular in Japan last I heard.
 

Freduardo

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Let's try an interesting query: Characters you think are underrated in the community in having a chance of being among the Last 2 Challenger Pack choices. Not gonna do Overrated because that is a well best left untouched but the flipside seems more fun.
I'll start.
View attachment 235074
Underrateds:

Kos Mos
Porky
Commander Video
Bonk...

Might be stretching with the last two.
 

OrpheusTelos

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Yeah I honestly believe Undertale would have a big appeal to a younger demographic which is what the Pass is going for. I'd say an Undertale rep is overlooked and has a decent chance of happening. The series is also really popular in Japan last I heard.
If you want an idea for how big Undertale is over there, it beat out Dragon Quest during its first week on the Japanese PSN. If it could beat out that juggernaut of a franchise, then it's clearly got a pretty decent following
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Anyone else a little worried that Doomguy might potentially take a Fighter's Pass slot over Crash? I kinda don't think they'd put in TWO more Western characters when we had to get a Japanese-centric one to offset Banjo, but what do you all think?

As for the Bosses, it'd be totally cool if we got a new one or two with the DLC fighters, expanding the new guy representation and explaining why they didn't make a Boss Rush, but we already have like TEN bosses as it is, so adding in like five more, could that be a little too "prolonged" for a Boss Rush mode? This is the game that denied us All Star mode with the sheer amount of fighters, after all.

EDIT: Also Rareware Mii costumes would be neat; put in Joanna Dark as Mii Gunner, Battletoads or Killer Instinct guys as Mii Brawler and Conker as whoever (Mii Gunner too?).
EDIT: Also if Crash got in and got a Cortex Boss, that'd be so great!
Both is still possible so I’m not that worried
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Chris Redfield. Everyone's jumping on Jill Valentine or Leon Kennedy, but I personally think Chris is the most likely Resident Evil candidate.
From what I hear it's more of a toss up. Leon's the most memorable, Jill's the most important, and Chris's the one Capcom is currently pushing to be the face of the franchise. My bet's still on Chris being the default along with Leon, Jill, and Claire skins.


If they did add the Dragonborn in the Fighters Pass I feel like there would be some backlash because it looks a bit like Hero (magic swordsman hybrid that has some stuff dealing with menus).
 
D

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If you want an idea for how big Undertale is over there, it beat out Dragon Quest during its first week on the Japanese PSN. If it could beat out that juggernaut of a franchise, then it's clearly got a pretty decent following
The argument is a bit deceptive if you don't mention it was the fourth week of DQXI on the Japanese charts, would be better if we had any info of how the game performed overall over there as the sales in the fourth week are greatly diminished compared to the previous weeks. I would argue that the appearance of the Undertale characters in a few polls from Nintendo magazines is a better indicator of the popularity over there at least considering the characters compete against other popular Nintendo characters.
Let's try an interesting query: Characters you think are underrated in the community in having a chance of being among the Last 2 Challenger Pack choices. Not gonna do Overrated because that is a well best left untouched but the flipside seems more fun.
I'll start.
I would say overall a character from Namco is somewhat an oversight, particularly a Souls character.
 

GoodGrief741

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Maybe I'm a total normie but I feel like most of the characters people are mentioning for underrated are perfectly rated as they are.
 

DrifloonEmpire

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Let's try an interesting query: Characters you think are underrated in the community in having a chance of being among the Last 2 Challenger Pack choices. Not gonna do Overrated because that is a well best left untouched but the flipside seems more fun.
I'll start.

Prince of All Cosmos, Last Dragonborn/Dovahkiin, Quote from Cave Story (very slim though, seeing what happened to Shovel Knight and Shantae), Chosen Undead!
 

3BitSaurus

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So, off-topic, but I found this. If there is anyone that knows more about 4.0 datamines, it would be nice to get some confirmation on this post.

So basically, someone snooped around in the sections of the code dedicated to game modes in the menus and found this. If true, it would mean we're getting at least one more Smash mode, one Games & More mode (probably HRC) and three new online modes.

What do you guys think about this one?
 

lordvaati

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Seeing Ori come to the Switch while still saying "Xbox Game Studios" on it seems so surreal to me, but it's the good kind.
Then again I shouldn't have been that surprised since RoA is coming to Switch soon and Ori is a guest fighter in that.
 

Door Key Pig

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So, off-topic, but I found this. If there is anyone that knows more about 4.0 datamines, it would be nice to get some confirmation on this post.

So basically, someone snooped around in the sections of the code dedicated to game modes in the menus and found this. If true, it would mean we're getting at least one more Smash mode, one Games & More mode (probably HRC) and three new online modes.

What do you guys think about this one?
If the Smash mode is supposed to be amongst Special Smash stuff, would it make sense for it to be Smash Run because of its way of you racking up power ups and then going into a match? But it now has like ATs for enemies, maybe some new ones or ports from 3DS if that's not too taxing?
 

RileyXY1

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If the Smash mode is supposed to be amongst Special Smash stuff, would it make sense for it to be Smash Run because of its way of you racking up power ups and then going into a match? But it now has like ATs for enemies, maybe some new ones or ports from 3DS if that's not too taxing?
Metroids already were enemies in Smash Run and ATs at the same time. Even the Hammer Bros appeared as enemies in the Subspace Emissary even though they were also ATs.
 

IsmaR

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The same goes for characters like Starman, Lakitu/Spinies, and Chain Chomps.

Defeatable ATs would make excellent mini-bosses/event battles, honestly. Beef up their health/attacks and that would be a fun mode in and of itself.
 

Ridrool64

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At this point, only one group of video game characters (from video game franchises, keeping "loophole" characters Android 21 and the New Kid out) remains yet to have anything resembling a form of presence in Smash Bros.: Sony characters. (Crash and Spyro, now owned by Activision, do not count for the purposes of this question: for a good reference on which franchises are legit owned by Sony, check the PSAS wiki's Franchises template, the first party lineup).

What are the chances we get one of them? Do Kratos and friends occupy the impossible tier like Goku and his gang, or is there a chance that they might show up? Who would it be, or at least who would the second character be if you think Kratos is nothing short of a lock for the first one? Would you want to tap into that library?

While I'd love to see it happen one day, unfortunately I consider it a Goku-level pipe dream. On an objective scale I think it has to be Kratos, but if I could choose based on a combination of bias and reason it'd be PaRappa (pretty much, this dog's the reason rhythm games are much of a thing, he's got DQ cred for another genre) and if it was pure bias it'd be Sly Cooper easily.
 

Flyboy

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I don't think a Sony character is a pure pipe dream, but they aren't all my personal hype picks. Kratos would be cool but not that cool. My personal picks, Sly Cooper or PaRappa, just don't seem likely. I'd love them and think they'd add a ton to Smash, but it just doesn't seem likely.
 

SKX31

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At this point, only one group of video game characters (from video game franchises, keeping "loophole" characters Android 21 and the New Kid out) remains yet to have anything resembling a form of presence in Smash Bros.: Sony characters. (Crash and Spyro, now owned by Activision, do not count for the purposes of this question: for a good reference on which franchises are legit owned by Sony, check the PSAS wiki's Franchises template, the first party lineup).

What are the chances we get one of them? Do Kratos and friends occupy the impossible tier like Goku and his gang, or is there a chance that they might show up? Who would it be, or at least who would the second character be if you think Kratos is nothing short of a lock for the first one? Would you want to tap into that library?

While I'd love to see it happen one day, unfortunately I consider it a Goku-level pipe dream. On an objective scale I think it has to be Kratos, but if I could choose based on a combination of bias and reason it'd be PaRappa (pretty much, this dog's the reason rhythm games are much of a thing, he's got DQ cred for another genre) and if it was pure bias it'd be Sly Cooper easily.
I'm gonna go on a limb - and not just because I want to be a little different:

I don't see Sony as Goku-level of impossible. The tier or two "above" Goku, certainly: where they are practically impossible, but not quite. There are a couple things going for a Sony characters chances:

* Ken Kutaragi is long gone from Sony at this point. He's the guy who spearheaded the PS1's development, the SNES's sound chip and helped build the SNES CD-ROM. If anyone, he's the guy who would oppose any sort of partnership with Nintendo the most, since Nintendo's behind-the-back deal with Phillips enraged Kutaragi. To the point that he convinced the other Sony execs to focus on the PS1. Ditto a lot of execs from the PS1 era - they're not at Sony any more.

* The pressure on Sony regarding crossplay is slowly taking its toll on them - with CoD Modern Warfare and PUBG getting crossplay between PS4, Xbone and PC.

* PlayStation AllStars is dead and buried, and it'd be difficult for Sony to reestablish their own fighter.

* Finally, the infamous Sony email hack led to rumors that the Super Mario Bros. movie would be produced by Sony - when emails between Sony exec Amy Pascale and movie producer Avi Arad got leaked. Pascal apparently forwarded her email to infamous Sony exec Tom Rothman*. Of course, things either a) didn't work out in the end considering the movie's now with Universal (and Illumination) or b) was not true to begin with. But if Sony (even if it's their film department.) was willing to make the Super Mario Bros movie, they're not as antagonistic to Nintendo as they were during the PS1 era.

What would need to happen is something near-impossible: Sony either embraces crossplay, or the PlayStation falling from grace massively. Not seeing that happening in the near future when the video game department's run more competently.

If we're getting a Sony fighter, I also think Kratos will take priority (Dad of War was a major boon to him character wise), with Jak / Daxter, Rachet / Klank and Nathan Drake not far behind. Personally my wishlist would include Sly, Parappa, Kat or Sweet Tooth. With a WipeOut Assist Trophy.

*(Incidentally, Rothman's also behind masterpieces like the Emoji Movie.)
 
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GoodGrief741

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At this point, only one group of video game characters (from video game franchises, keeping "loophole" characters Android 21 and the New Kid out) remains yet to have anything resembling a form of presence in Smash Bros.: Sony characters. (Crash and Spyro, now owned by Activision, do not count for the purposes of this question: for a good reference on which franchises are legit owned by Sony, check the PSAS wiki's Franchises template, the first party lineup).

What are the chances we get one of them? Do Kratos and friends occupy the impossible tier like Goku and his gang, or is there a chance that they might show up? Who would it be, or at least who would the second character be if you think Kratos is nothing short of a lock for the first one? Would you want to tap into that library?

While I'd love to see it happen one day, unfortunately I consider it a Goku-level pipe dream. On an objective scale I think it has to be Kratos, but if I could choose based on a combination of bias and reason it'd be PaRappa (pretty much, this dog's the reason rhythm games are much of a thing, he's got DQ cred for another genre) and if it was pure bias it'd be Sly Cooper easily.
The game's industry is weird, and it's getting weirder. Before this year I would have said no way, but we got a Microsoft character in Smash and some of their games on Switch. As things are right now, I don't think Sony would be up for sharing a character. Down the line? Definitely a possibility.
 

Playstation Guy 1000

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I honestly think that a Sony character is more impossible than non video game character due to sony refusing to play ball with Nintendo or Microsoft (refusing crossplay was a major sign of that).
 

Rie Sonomura

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I honestly think that a Sony character is more impossible than non video game character due to sony refusing to play ball with Nintendo or Microsoft (refusing crossplay was a major sign of that).
That and for example, Cuphead and Ori are now on every current system EXCEPT PlayStation 4, and I don’t think those two games will ever be on PS4 either
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Considering non-video game characters are considered to be an outright 0% chance I don't think Sony characters are more or even just as likely as that category. That being said though I don't see them happening at the moment especially since Sony and Nintendo's audiences seem to be like night and day. (Or maybe that's just an assumption I've made because I don't know anything about the Sony stuff.)

EDIT:
That and for example, Cuphead and Ori are now on every current system EXCEPT PlayStation 4, and I don’t think those two games will ever be on PS4 either
Wouldn't be worth it anyway since the PS5 is on the horizon.
 
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yeet123

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I still consider Crash a Sony character. His reveal as the final fighter in the pass will be legendary.
 

Llort A. Ton

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My go to sony character would be Spike from Ape Escape. Very fun seires of games, lits of gadgets for cool moves, and it always seemed like it would fit right in alongside Nintendos games. And the crossover with MGS3 was hilariously badass
 

Michael the Spikester

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While I still predict Lloyd and an Resident Evil rep. I see the final two DLC fighters going one of these four following ways.

1. Lloyd/Crash
2. Lloyd/Resident Evil rep
3. Resident Evil rep/Crash
4. Doom Slayer/Crash

I'm really hoping 4. That'd be icing on cake.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Still on board with Hayabusa and Doom Slayer being the final two. Doom Slayer almost feels like a given at this point and I cant quite put my finger on why I feel that way.
 

YoshiandToad

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In a perfect (semi likely) timeline for me: Crash and Resident Evil character. Preferably Chris, but Jill and Leon are fine too. Heck, Wesker even.

Therefore it's probably Lloyd and Doomguy/Hayabusa. I've been pretty unlucky with newcomer desires this Smash outside Inkling(who were shoe-ins) and Isabelle(who was also really likely but not a top want).
 

DX_E

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How big is the Tales series exactly?

I feel like Lloyd's chances are slim considering his competition... like compared to a RE character, DOOM Slayer/Guy, Crash, Hayabusa, Master Chief, Lara Croft...... I feel like he would only have a chance because he's a Namco rep. But then you have Tekken to consider as well.
 

Mushroomguy12

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How big is the Tales series exactly?

I feel like Lloyd's chances are slim considering his competition... like compared to a RE character, DOOM Slayer/Guy, Crash, Hayabusa, Master Chief, Lara Croft...... I feel like he would only have a chance because he's a Namco rep. But then you have Tekken to consider as well.
Big enough to be in the Top 7 best selling JRPG series of all time and ranked in Famitsu’s Top 10 biggest JRPGs series only below Pokemon, Dragon Quest, and Final Fantasy.

Try the series, you might find you like it. Plenty of the entries are on Nintendo consoles too, so shouldn’t be a problem.
 
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andree123

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I'm always expecting Lloyd Irving, Sylux, and Porky to come in as playables because they are missing a non-fighter spirit.

And when one of the characters I was predicting to be playable came out right, we should HEAVILY focus on those characters that I predicted.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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I'm always expecting Lloyd Irving, Sylux, and Porky to come in as playables because they are missing a non-fighter spirit.

And when one of the characters I was predicting to be playable came out right, we should HEAVILY focus on those characters that I predicted.
Lloyd has a good chance of getting in due to his status as an unrepresented 3rd Party, but lacking a spirit has little to indicate any increased chances for a character. Sylux and Porky likely don’t have spirits because they aren’t important or relevant in anyway, not because they are going to be characters later.
 

OrpheusTelos

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Lloyd has a good chance of getting in due to his status as an unrepresented 3rd Party, but lacking a spirit has little to indicate any increased chances for a character. Sylux and Porky likely don’t have spirits because they aren’t important or relevant in anyway, not because they are going to be characters later.
I'll agree with you on Sylux because most of the reasoning for him just boils down to "I swear he'll be important later," but Porky is the main antagonist of 2/3 of the Mother series. I don't think he's going to be playable, but he is a pretty important character and I can see why his Spirit's absence would be confusing
 

Mushroomguy12

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I'll agree with you on Sylux because most of the reasoning for him just boils down to "I swear he'll be important later," but Porky is the main antagonist of 2/3 of the Mother series. I don't think he's going to be playable, but he is a pretty important character and I can see why his Spirit's absence would be confusing
Well, there’s the Absolutely Safe Capsule spirit for him, and Mother isn’t really a very large series to begin with, I think Ness and Lucas and all the stages and music it gets is already pretty generous enough for it when there are other series like Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, and Advance Wars that don’t even have a single Rep. On the small chance we did get a third character for the series it would probably be an echo like Ninten rather than a fully unique character.

My theory is that Porky was probably meant to be a boss recycled from Brawl like Galleom but was cut for time constraints and the spirit along with it.
Agreeing with Sylux, another point is that Metroid has already had it great enough with Ridley and Dark Samus and should be fine for representation for a while.
 
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Guynamednelson

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when there are other series like Golden Sun and Advance Wars that don’t even have a single Rep.
Exactly. The "no spirit=DLC" crowd is too focused on series that haven't caught up with Fire Emblem and not enough on ones that haven't caught up with F-Zero. Tibby and Sami are spiritless protagonists from Rhythm Heaven and Advance Wars respectively who don't have as many people bandwagoning them.
 
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