Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Koopaul]

I'd like to see the return of some missing stages like Jungle Hijinx and Pac-Maze. I know they can't return due to various factors such as Stage Morph. And I have a feeling Sakurai wouldn't want to bring back a stage that doesn't feature it's gimmick.

But here's the difference. They bring back those old stages as "Remixed" stages. Jungle Hijinx becomes "Homecoming Hijinx" from Tropical Freeze. It's the same stage as the Wii U one but all covered in snow and ice. The barrel cannons don't appear now and a new morph friendly gimmick takes it's place.

Pac-Maze becomes Neo Pac-Maze and get's retextured to look like Pac-Man Championship Edition. Once again, the stage is exactly the same but it's gimmick is different.

This is just a crazy idea. But it would be a way to both port old stages and give us new ones at the same time. It won't happen though.

 

[TheYungLink]

I'd like to see the return of some missing stages like Jungle Hijinx and Pac-Maze. I know they can't return due to various factors such as Stage Morph. And I have a feeling Sakurai wouldn't want to bring back a stage that doesn't feature it's gimmick.

But here's the difference. They bring back those old stages as "Remixed" stages. Jungle Hijinx becomes "Homecoming Hijinx" from Tropical Freeze. It's the same stage as the Wii U one but all covered in snow and ice. The barrel cannons don't appear now and a new morph friendly gimmick takes it's place.

Pac-Maze becomes Neo Pac-Maze and get's retextured to look like Pac-Man Championship Edition. Once again, the stage is exactly the same but it's gimmick is different.

This is just a crazy idea. But it would be a way to both port old stages and give us new ones at the same time. It won't happen though.

I had a similar idea for bringing back the Smash 64 stages that are aesthetically similar to other stages (mostly from Melee) where the layout is the same but not the way it looks. Peach's Castle becomes, I dunno Bob-omb Battlefield to differ with Princess Peach's Castle, Kongo Jungle gets a daytime background to contrast with Jungle Japes, and Dream Land gets an autumn themed makeover to have it look more different from Green Greens (it isn't green anymore lol). Hyrule Castle, Super Happy Tree, and Saffron City wouldn't really need any changes.

I had this idea sometime before Ultimate was announced. Then we found out the full stage list in the new game and I just went "oh well" when it came to Smash 64 and Melee stages with similar aesthetics coexisting.

I like your idea for how to bring back Jungle Hijinx and Pac-Maze, though.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'd like to see the return of some missing stages like Jungle Hijinx and Pac-Maze. I know they can't return due to various factors such as Stage Morph. And I have a feeling Sakurai wouldn't want to bring back a stage that doesn't feature it's gimmick.

But here's the difference. They bring back those old stages as "Remixed" stages. Jungle Hijinx becomes "Homecoming Hijinx" from Tropical Freeze. It's the same stage as the Wii U one but all covered in snow and ice. The barrel cannons don't appear now and a new morph friendly gimmick takes it's place.

Pac-Maze becomes Neo Pac-Maze and get's retextured to look like Pac-Man Championship Edition. Once again, the stage is exactly the same but it's gimmick is different.

This is just a crazy idea. But it would be a way to both port old stages and give us new ones at the same time. It won't happen though.

These are great ideas. We get a DK stage that isn't just jungle and some heavy Championship Edition representation which is just the best.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd like to see the return of some missing stages like Jungle Hijinx and Pac-Maze. I know they can't return due to various factors such as Stage Morph. And I have a feeling Sakurai wouldn't want to bring back a stage that doesn't feature it's gimmick.

But here's the difference. They bring back those old stages as "Remixed" stages. Jungle Hijinx becomes "Homecoming Hijinx" from Tropical Freeze. It's the same stage as the Wii U one but all covered in snow and ice. The barrel cannons don't appear now and a new morph friendly gimmick takes it's place.

Pac-Maze becomes Neo Pac-Maze and get's retextured to look like Pac-Man Championship Edition. Once again, the stage is exactly the same but it's gimmick is different.

This is just a crazy idea. But it would be a way to both port old stages and give us new ones at the same time. It won't happen though.

Here are my thoughts for bringing back stages:

• Planet Zebes, Sector Z, Icicle Mountain, Mute City, Rumble Falls, PictoChat, Rainbow Road, Woolly World, and Orbital Gate Assault appear with no changes.
• Mushroom Kingdom is renamed to Mushroom Land (or something).
• Poké Floats's Battlefield and Omega forms use an Avalugg balloon for the main platform, and the Battlefield form uses three Stunfisk balloons as the small platforms.
• Pac-Maze outlines the ghosts in the color of the player who grabbed a Power Pellet. This outline changes design when enough players grab one at the same time.
• Jungle Hijinxs's cannons appear around all fighters in the background and shoot them to the normal fighting area just before a stage morph.
• Pyrosphere could just say that playable Ridley and stage hazard Ridley are two different Ridlys but they could also remove the boss if Ridley is present.
• Miiverse shows a bunch of premade messages for each fighter.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Whipped this up a couple of hours ago using the same template from the Doomguy image, had a lot of fun with this! Here's hoping we get another Namco rep!

 

[CosmicQuark]

I'll chime in on the 4chan rumor since I just read about it.

Spoiler

- Extra Stage: The extra stage is a good reason for dismissing this rumor; there's no room on the current stage screen when changing the ruleset. Everything seems to have been pre-planned with the Fighter's Pass in mind, and I don't see any additional screens to be added or significant revamping.
- Bonus Character: I'm doubtful we'll get a bonus character--would like more seasons, but see no reason they would include an extra bonus character. That being said, I'd be totally cool with this roster.
- New Bosses: I do think it's possible, maybe not likely, that Gruntilda will be a stage boss. The scene with Banjo & Kazooie in front of Gruntilda's Lair looks more cinematic than the rest of the trailer. While it could be simply gameplay with the camera moved, I'm still skeptical how the bridge would play out on it as a regular stage feature, and when the audio is isolated you can hear a boss sting playing during that moment. Seems like a lot of coincidences to just be normal gameplay like the rest of the trailer. Not expecting it (well, trying not to), but there is good evidence for it. Boss rush mode makes sense, though I don't think they'd bring back any bosses, let alone that many.
- Game Awards: If anybody's being shown at the Game Awards from this, it's Crash, not Geno. Possibly Doom.
- There was a post on 4chan earlier than this one the same day, with mostly the same information and some other details. Most likely either the same person, or the later rumor was piggybacking off of this one. But, in the unlikely event this rumor is true and some random 4chan person knows the info, more reliable sources should likely know this information, and we'd hear from them soon.

I do not think this rumor is true at all, though I like talking about rumors by talking about the elements of them, as sometimes there are fun topics to talk about, even if everyone acknowledges it's likely fake.

As for returning old stages, Pac-Maze, to me, is the biggest miss. I feel like they should have prioritized Pac-Maze, even if it meant removing features. It's too iconic to Pac-Man to not be here, and I would have gladly given up the gimmick and Pac-Land just to have the aesthetic.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Re: Crash in Smash, would Sakurai choose the japanese or Western design? Or both?

Uh...you already know what he looks like in Smash.

 

[RileyXY1]

Uh...you already know what he looks like in Smash.

We don't know because he's not playable yet.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Anyone else a little worried that Doomguy might potentially take a Fighter's Pass slot over Crash? I kinda don't think they'd put in TWO more Western characters when we had to get a Japanese-centric one to offset Banjo, but what do you all think?

As for the Bosses, it'd be totally cool if we got a new one or two with the DLC fighters, expanding the new guy representation and explaining why they didn't make a Boss Rush, but we already have like TEN bosses as it is, so adding in like five more, could that be a little too "prolonged" for a Boss Rush mode? This is the game that denied us All Star mode with the sheer amount of fighters, after all.

EDIT: Also Rareware Mii costumes would be neat; put in Joanna Dark as Mii Gunner, Battletoads or Killer Instinct guys as Mii Brawler and Conker as whoever (Mii Gunner too?).
EDIT: Also if Crash got in and got a Cortex Boss, that'd be so great!

 

[DarthEnderX]

We don't know because he's not playable yet.

The question wasn't about how he's going to play though. It's about his design.

They showed you his design already.

 

[RileyXY1]

The question wasn't about how he's going to play though. It's about his design.

They showed you his design already.

You're talking as if Crash is already confirmed to be playable, which he isn't.

 

[DarthEnderX]

...I'm an idiot...I thought that was Banjo...and I'm not sure how, cause it's clearly Crash, and he said Crash.

 

[Us3inMN]

Chell too please.

How about a mechanic where she can put down two portals on the ground and use that to get around big maps fast. Her recovery could be an angled one like Rosalina, where an ASLP spawns and launches her up. Her final smash could involve a bunch of turrets spawning everywhere. And her stage could be just one of the many testing rooms with GLaDOS saying stupid s**t in the background.

Oh yeah it's third person...Still based upon the same formula though.

Rhythm Heaven. It is a rhythm game after all. Here are some of my favorites:

• Air Rally
• Wish! Couldn't Wait for You
• Remix 10 (Rhythm Heaven Fever)
• I Feel Fine
• Blue Bear

Also, where in the h*ckity h*ck is Remix 8 (DS), Rhythm Rally 2 (DS), and Spaceball?

And are we talking Air Rally (Fever) or Air Rally (Megamix)?

 

[KillerCage]

Anyone else a little worried that Doomguy might potentially take a Fighter's Pass slot over Crash? I kinda don't think they'd put in TWO more Western characters when we had to get a Japanese-centric one to offset Banjo, but what do you all think?

I don't think Banjo quite balanced out Hero's uneven popularity. From what I seen, plenty of people in Japan recognized Banjo and Kazooie and were hyped for their inclusion. There are also the fan poles in Japan that had the Bear and Bird among the most wanted fighters in Smash Bros. It's clear to me that Banjo and Kazooie are quite popular in Japan and more so in the West. Hero (and Dragon Quest by extension) is MASSIVELY popular in Japan, but never became a mainstream or even a cult-classic series in the West from my perspective; it's just merely acknowledged. I feel Doom Slayer (and Doom by extension) could balance out Hero since Doom (or at least its creator) is acknowledged in Japan, but has much more success in the West.

 

[Koopaul]

There's a good chance we won't be getting another Western 3rd party. The last two might be from SNK, Capcom, Namco, or Koei Tecmo.

 

[SVG360]

Hi Guys, I have a solution for the next dlc fighter remember the hero trailer it was referred to world of light, the banjo trailer was referred to the king k rool trailer, well this time it will be different. What I mean by different is that one fighter might have a smash 4 reference. It might be red, blue, & yellow, it will be different cause it is gonna show orange. Any guess what is orange?

 

[Us3inMN]

Hi Guys, I have a solution for the next dlc fighter remember the hero trailer it was referred to world of light, the banjo trailer was referred to the king k rool trailer, well this will be different. What I mean by different is that one fighter might have a smash 4 reference . It might red, blue, & yellow it will be different cause it is gonna show orange. Any guess what is orange.

No offense, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.

In terms of orange, there's Q*Bert, Bubsy, Pooka, Crash, Ulala, Orange Knight (Castle Crashers), Earl (Toejam & Earl), Conker, Chell (Portal 1 jumpsuit), Ermac, Gordon Freeman, Daxter, Redd, Ty, Fidget (Dust An Elysian Tale), and Tracer (kinda).

 

[Rangez]

What do anyone think of the Challenger Packs I've made? I got inspired by the guy who had that Challenger Pack template with Doomguy, and spruced up my own works for certain characters I've touched upon in the past.

Challenger Packs: Crash Bandicoot, Jin Kazama, Arle Nadja, Ezio

 

[Deleted member]

I don't feel a second western rep is a given, and remember that is also possible that if we get one is neither Doomguy nor Crash.

Seriously the narrowness of the debate is quite boring when we only consider 2 characters as there are also characters such as Ezio, Tracer, Dovahkin, Lara Croft, Gordon Freeman and even MC could be considered.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Color theory got busted IMO as Arusu, Solo, and Eight have their own colors.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I don't feel a second western rep is a given, and remember that is also possible that if we get one is neither Doomguy nor Crash.

Seriously the narrowness of the debate is quite boring when we only consider 2 characters as there are also characters such as Ezio, Tracer, Dovahkin, Lara Croft, Gordon Freeman and even MC could be considered.

Who's MC?

Would be EXTREMELY happy if Dovahkiin was chosen and he honestly doesn't get enough support. He has legitimate reasons to be in the game but they're never really discussed due to a lot of people locking Doomguy.

Tracer would be interesting, but weren't Overwatch's developers adamant about not putting it on the Switch? if anything I could see a Diablo rep since it's been ported to Switch and even got the Loot Goblin amiibo. Would be an interesting dark horse choice!

Lara's had her fair share of Nintendo games, even if she hasn't had one in awhile, though she would be a very interesting dark horse pick. Her only real obstacle is that she's owned by Square Enix, and we all know how they are (and Gex has to deal with the same fate D: ).

 

[Idon]

Who's MC?

Master Chief from Halo

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also, where in the h*ckity h*ck is Remix 8 (DS), Rhythm Rally 2 (DS), and Spaceball?

And are we talking Air Rally (Fever) or Air Rally (Megamix)?

I just picked five songs. Otherwise I'd go on forever. Also, I've only played Rhythm Heaven Fever so I'm most familiar with the songs from there (though I do know my way around the other soundtracks). Didn't know Air Rally had a different tune in Rhythm Heaven Megamix though (It's the one I'm the least familiar with).

 

[yeet123]

Anyone else a little worried that Doomguy might potentially take a Fighter's Pass slot over Crash? I kinda don't think they'd put in TWO more Western characters when we had to get a Japanese-centric one to offset Banjo, but what do you all think?

Obv no more Western Characters are a given... but I think they both deserve the slot. For me, Banjo representss the goofy, Western, 90s, 3D Platformer so if Crash doesnt make it in I wont be upset.

Doom Guy is an amazing rep in all aspects, and is from a genre of game not really repped in Smash.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose Crash, but either of them would be an amazing add imo.

 

[KillerCage]

Color theory got busted IMO as Arusu, Solo, and Eight have their own colors.

Could you please explain what you mean by Arusa (Erdrick), Solo, and Eight having their own colors?

 

[RileyXY1]

Obv no more Western Characters are a given...

We don't know yet. There's no guarantee that both of the remaining Fighter Pass characters are from Japanese companies.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Could you please explain what you mean by Arusa (Erdrick), Solo, and Eight having their own colors?

Hero has 4 different associated amiibo box colours for each of the 4 heroes. Eleven is purple, Arusu is light blue, Solo is green, and Eight is yellow. This more or less means that color theory(which predicts that character 4 and 5 would have a blue and orange background) is more or less dead.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.pri...timate_dragon_quest_challenge.jpg_1200x0_.jpg

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hero (and Dragon Quest by extension) is MASSIVELY popular in Japan, but never became a mainstream or even a cult-classic series in the West from my perspective

Your perspective is wrong then, because it definitely qualifies as cult-classic.

It was one of the bigger franchises of the NES era, even in NA. And they wouldn't have kept localizing all the portable remakes of the franchise if someone over here wasn't buying them.

 

[KillerCage]

Your perspective is wrong then, because it definitely qualifies as cult-classic.

It was one of the bigger franchises of the NES era, even in NA. And they wouldn't have kept localizing all the portable remakes of the franchise if someone over here wasn't buying them.

Let me explain what my perspective is in regards to my interpretation of Dragon Quest's status in the West:

1. I spent most of my early years on YouTube watching videos from the Video Game Countdown community. Some of the big names include the Fiery Joke (Joshscrocher), the Quarter Guy, the Green Scorpion, Rabbidluigi, Fawful's Minion. The Countdown community have brought attention to a multitude of video games I wouldn't have otherwise known their existence such as Okami, Dust: a Elysian Tale, the Blazblue series, Dynasty Warriors, Shadow of the Colossus, Ghost Trick, and countless others. They also posted AVGM (Awesome Video Game Music) videos that further broadened my knowledge with music from the Professor Layton Series, the Touhou series, Blue Dragon, the Persona series and countless others. Yet with all my time with them, they never talked about Dragon Quest. They showcased Final Fantasty, Breath of Fire, Fire Emblem, Super Robot Wars, Xenosaga, Shin Megami Tensai, Elder Scrolls, Fable, Undertale, Tales, Dragon Age, Xenoblade, The World ends with You, Kingdom Hearts, Nier, Chrono Trigger, but not Dragon Quest.

2. I also listen to plenty of video games remixes (primary to Gametal and DjtheSdotcom). They have done remixes for Iji, Darksiders, Ratchet and Clank, Hyperdimension Neptunia, Castlevania, Ace Attorney, and others. Yet I have seen any remix of Dragon Quest music. Granted I'm only focusing on the artists, but my point is they seem to interested in remixing Dragon Quest music.

3. I happen to have all of the Gamer's Editions of the Guinness World Records which have been going on since 2008. The only time Dragon Quest was showcased in these books was in the original 2008 edition with two pages dedicated to the series. Two books (the 2014 and 2016 editions) don't even mention Dragon Quest. The rest of the books only briefly noted Dragon Quest while being overshadowed by other series including Xenoblade, Persona, and Dragonball. They do mention the high sales of the series, but they also state that Dragon Quest is MASSIVELY popular in Japan.

Sorry about the huge response, but I have to provide much info as I can to explain my position.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Let me explain what my perspective is in regards to my interpretation of Dragon Quest's status in the West:

1. I spent most of my early years on YouTube watching videos from the Video Game Countdown community. Some of the big names include the Fiery Joke (Joshscrocher), the Quarter Guy, the Green Scorpion, Rabbidluigi, Fawful's Minion. The Countdown community have brought attention to a multitude of video games I wouldn't have otherwise known their existence such as Okami, Dust: a Elysian Tale, the Blazblue series, Dynasty Warriors, Shadow of the Colossus, Ghost Trick, and countless others. They also posted AVGM (Awesome Video Game Music) videos that further broadened my knowledge with music from the Professor Layton Series, the Touhou series, Blue Dragon, the Persona series and countless others. Yet with all my time with them, they never talked about Dragon Quest. They showcased Final Fantasty, Breath of Fire, Fire Emblem, Super Robot Wars, Xenosaga, Shin Megami Tensai, Elder Scrolls, Fable, Undertale, Tales, Dragon Age, Xenoblade, The World ends with You, Kingdom Hearts, Nier, Chrono Trigger, but not Dragon Quest.

2. I also listen to plenty of video games remixes (primary to Gametal and DjtheSdotcom). They have done remixes for Iji, Darksiders, Ratchet and Clank, Hyperdimension Neptunia, Castlevania, Ace Attorney, and others. Yet I have seen any remix of Dragon Quest music. Granted I'm only focusing on the artists, but my point is they seem to interested in remixing Dragon Quest music.

3. I happen to have all of the Gamer's Editions of the Guinness World Records which have been going on since 2008. The only time Dragon Quest was showcased in these books was in the original 2008 edition with two pages dedicated to the series. Two books (the 2014 and 2016 editions) don't even mention Dragon Quest. The rest of the books only briefly noted Dragon Quest while being overshadowed by other series including Xenoblade, Persona, and Dragonball. They do mention the high sales of the series, but they also state that Dragon Quest is MASSIVELY popular in Japan.

Sorry about the huge response, but I have to provide much info as I can to explain my position.

This all seems extremely anecdotal.

 

[Idon]

Let me explain what my perspective is in regards to my interpretation of Dragon Quest's status in the West:

1. I spent most of my early years on YouTube watching videos from the Video Game Countdown community. Some of the big names include the Fiery Joke (Joshscrocher), the Quarter Guy, the Green Scorpion, Rabbidluigi, Fawful's Minion. The Countdown community have brought attention to a multitude of video games I wouldn't have otherwise known their existence such as Okami, Dust: a Elysian Tale, the Blazblue series, Dynasty Warriors, Shadow of the Colossus, Ghost Trick, and countless others. They also posted AVGM (Awesome Video Game Music) videos that further broadened my knowledge with music from the Professor Layton Series, the Touhou series, Blue Dragon, the Persona series and countless others. Yet with all my time with them, they never talked about Dragon Quest. They showcased Final Fantasty, Breath of Fire, Fire Emblem, Super Robot Wars, Xenosaga, Shin Megami Tensai, Elder Scrolls, Fable, Undertale, Tales, Dragon Age, Xenoblade, The World ends with You, Kingdom Hearts, Nier, Chrono Trigger, but not Dragon Quest.

2. I also listen to plenty of video games remixes (primary to Gametal and DjtheSdotcom). They have done remixes for Iji, Darksiders, Ratchet and Clank, Hyperdimension Neptunia, Castlevania, Ace Attorney, and others. Yet I have seen any remix of Dragon Quest music. Granted I'm only focusing on the artists, but my point is they seem to interested in remixing Dragon Quest music.

3. I happen to have all of the Gamer's Editions of the Guinness World Records which have been going on since 2008. The only time Dragon Quest was showcased in these books was in the original 2008 edition with two pages dedicated to the series. Two books (the 2014 and 2016 editions) don't even mention Dragon Quest. The rest of the books only briefly noted Dragon Quest while being overshadowed by other series including Xenoblade, Persona, and Dragonball. They do mention the high sales of the series, but they also state that Dragon Quest is MASSIVELY popular in Japan.

Sorry about the huge response, but I have to provide much info as I can to explain my position.

Absolutely none of this is actual evidence...

 

[ROBnWatch]

Absolutely none of this is actual evidence...

In his defense, I don’t think it’s meant to be evidence. I think he’s just trying to explain why he doesn’t see the series as a big deal like others do, because in his personal experience, it never has been a big deal. And I don’t think any of us can attack him for his own experiences.

 

[TheYungLink]

I dunno about a "countdown community" but The Completionist, one of the most well-known video game YouTube personalities on the site, made this video a couple of years ago, with 490K views.

490K is nearly half a million, and whether those views are all from Dragon Quest fans or The Completionist fans, either way a lot of people were exposed to Dragon Quest this way.

Edit: now that I've actually watched the video, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't affect anyone's interest in the series with the overly blatant Dragon Quest Heroes 2 shilling, yeesh.

Nonetheless, my point stands, Dragon Quest is a cult classic series and its western popularity shouldn't be discredited.

 

[CosmicQuark]

While I got my character, I'd really love Crash as well, and I was very optimistic about his chances. However, Sakurai mentioned what a big deal it was to work with a Western composer--while they wouldn't do the same thing in Crash's circumstance, perhaps that extends to working with another Western company in general. Despite it being much easier now than it was in the early 2000s, perhaps there are still a lot of logistical hurdles involved. I'd love to say Banjo & Kazooie's appearance opens the door to more Western representation, but perhaps it's too soon for that. I hope not--I already feel like Smash is complete for me, but Crash would be Mega-Man/Pac-Man level of an iconic mascot newcomer for Ultimate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

However, Sakurai mentioned what a big deal it was to work with a Western composer

Big deal as in prestige or hassle?

 

[CosmicQuark]

Big deal as in prestige or hassle?

He tweeted about how this was the first time to ask an overseas composer to work on an arrangement, and he was uncertain with the language barrier, how it would end up working, but was happy with the end result. Wouldn't necessarily say it was a hassle, but did present some challenges. Grant also mentioned in an interview the legal difficulties of working overseas--how Sakurai would have to send something through Nintendo of Japan to Nintendo of America to Grant's agent, and then going back through that loop, which took about a month to work out the NDA. Since Rare hasn't talked about their experience working with Nintendo, I can only assume the greater difficulties of working on the IP rights, characters and all that goes into making a single character, with those logistical issues. It's one of the reasons Sakurai mentioned in the past that it was difficult to work out even getting trophies in Melee.

 

[lordvaati]

You know what we should discuss right now? Literally anything apart from whether the content of mature rated video games should preclude them from being in Smash.

So let's try this. Nintendo announces 2 more passes, one for 5 more 1st party characters and one for 5 echoes. What are your dream picks?

(feel free to make up who the last two pass fighters will be if you want to echoes of them)

Well Better late then never I suppose.

So I am one of those few Heretics who believes that Spirits likely disconfirm characters, so with the Nintendo newcomers I had to apply that limitation with my choices. Echoes area different story though: Due to how Cloud is handled it will instead be that the Echo could get a new Spirit based on a Fighter render. So really only ATs are Excluded in this case.

First Party
1.Adeleine(Kirby)
2. Sylux(Metroid)
3.Porky(Earthbound)
4. Mike Jones (Startropics)
5. Euden (Dragalia Lost)

Echoes
1.Proto Man(Mega Man e)
2.Ms. PAC-MAN(PAC-MAN e)
3.Black Shadow( Captan Falcon e)
4. Octolings(Inkling e)
5. Zack Fair(Cloud e)

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Well Better late then never I suppose.

So I am one of those few Heretics who believes that Spirits likely disconfirm characters, so with the Nintendo newcomers I had to apply that limitation with my choices. Echoes area different story though: Due to how Cloud is handled it will instead be that the Echo could get a new Spirit based on a Fighter render. So really only ATs are Excluded in this case.

First Party
1.Adeleine(Kirby)
2. Sylux(Metroid)
3.Porky(Earthbound)
4. Mike Jones (Startropics)
5. Euden (Dragalia Lost)

Echoes
1.Proto Man(Mega Man e)
2.Ms. PAC-MAN(PAC-MAN e)
3.Black Shadow( Captan Falcon e)
4. Octolings(Inkling e)
5. Zack Fair(Cloud e)

they need to do more than five echos because Dexie can be a thing plus Impa and Medusa

 

[Icedragonadam]

He tweeted about how this was the first time to ask an overseas composer to work on an arrangement, and he was uncertain with the language barrier, how it would end up working, but was happy with the end result. Wouldn't necessarily say it was a hassle, but did present some challenges. Grant also mentioned in an interview the legal difficulties of working overseas--how Sakurai would have to send something through Nintendo of Japan to Nintendo of America to Grant's agent, and then going back through that loop, which took about a month to work out the NDA. Since Rare hasn't talked about their experience working with Nintendo, I can only assume the greater difficulties of working on the IP rights, characters and all that goes into making a single character, with those logistical issues. It's one of the reasons Sakurai mentioned in the past that it was difficult to work out even getting trophies in Melee.

Pretty much sums up why I think Banjo will be the only western 3rd party right now. We'll probably see more western characters in the future when the language barrier becomes much less of an issue.

 

[N3ON]

I'm not saying it isn't a lot of work to collaborate with a company when there's a language barrier.

But anyone who was around pre-Smash 4 will hopefully remember that Sakurai also made a statement regarding how arduously difficult it was working with third-parties in general. And that was just in reference to Japanese ones. It was similar to this specifically western statement, and it dictated a lot of speculation towards a limited number of following guest characters. Some people believed we wouldn't even get any new ones. Six third parties in the game later, people kinda forgot he made those statements.

Now Smash Ultimate will likely end up with at least fifteen playable third parties, with several additional third-party series as ATs or bosses, and the time people were super conservative with their third party picks due to that Sakurai statement is more or less forgotten. Again, I don't doubt that foreign developers are more challenging to work with, but should that not prove a huge impediment going forward, it wouldn't be the first time Sakurai expressed how difficult something was to achieve, then blast past the expectations he himself set.