D
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Apart from Spirits, is there any other form of Rhythm Heaven content? (Plus I remember RHhaving a few spirits)
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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion
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TheCJBrine
Smash Legend
EarthBound is decently-sized as a finished series with hundreds of fans. The Absolutely Safe Capsule holds no references to Porky in how you achieve it, unless you count the pig nose logo on it and the fact it holds him at the end of Mother 3; apparently the sprite for the capsule is the empty variant, however. The only things Porky has in Ultimate are his stage and music, so he's not even actually present in any way with the capsule just serving as some joke.
I don't think him not having a Spirit means he's in, but if he was planned to be a boss they still could've kept the Spirit and made a battle for it. They don't even have his statue as a spirit...
If they want Porky, they'll add him, no matter how much the series has in Smash. Representation between franchises is already wonky anyway.
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Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
Mother 3 isn’t even officially released in the US yet so technically his only western appearance is Earthbound where’s he’s not even the main antagonist.
Lucas was already stretching it in terms of Japan only characters, Takamaru and Ayumi Tachibana were specifically cut because of this. I don’t think Porky is likely.
He was probably only a boss in Brawl because Mother 3 was brand new at the time of Brawl’s release but at this point it’s a more than a decade old Japan only GBA game.
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Michael the Spikester
Smash Obsessed
What makes Lloyd another interesting candidate is Sakurai saying something around the lines of "Who else but Lloyd" and representing the GameCube in some way.
RileyXY1
Smash Hero
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And, Sakurai did not even know that Mother 3 was Japan-only when he added Lucas. Also, he had Lucas in mind for Melee but kept him out because of Mother 3's rather protracted development schedule.
TheCJBrine
Smash Legend
Y'all forget that Porky still had a large role in EarthBound even if he wasn't the main villain, and was Ness's friend/neighbor turned annoying
Nintendo likely knows about the massive amount of people that hacked the Japanese ROM, too, they never took down the fan translation patch and Reggie has acknowledged the meme.
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RileyXY1
Smash Hero
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However, he wasn't the main antagonist if that game. Gigyas was.
I highly doubt that Lloyd is getting in because he would be the 3rd fighter in the Fighter Pass from a JRPG, which would fly in the face of Sakurai and Nintendo's comments that the Fighter Pass would appeal to a wide range of demographics.
TheCJBrine
Smash Legend
And Giygas was a giant evil vortex while Porky was right there alongside him before he chickened out with his time machine. Porky still had a major role and is the main villain in Mother 3 so I don't see how anything is going against him. Porky shows up more times than Giygas, too, and is there from the very beginning of the game. They could add Giegue (Giygas in Mother 1) but still.
also the points I added in my edits
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RileyXY1
Smash Hero
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Mother 3 is Japan-only which hurts his chances. That's why Ayumi Tachibana and Takamaru got the axe. I highly doubt that Porky is getting in unless Mother 3 does get an international release.
TheCJBrine
Smash Legend
What if they wanted his EarthBound form? He's basically the secondary antagonist and still causes trouble for Ness. Heck, Porky was still in Smash 4 and Mother 3 got more love in Ultimate so I feel it doesn't even matter, especially if they know about (which it seems like they do) the mass of Western fans that played the game anyway.
Unlike those characters, he at least exists in the West (though Takamaru's game actually appeared on the Virtual Console in English for the West).
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Wyoming
Connery, Sean
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Didn't his voice actor deny any work related to Smash a month ago? Now obviously this can be taken many ways...
I feel that Yuri would be a solid pick, but Lloyd makes more sense due to being "Nintendo's Tales character". It's like how Leon is the Nintendo RE character.
TheCJBrine
Smash Legend
You can say the same for every other non-3rd party.
At this point y'all are just trying to throw him the trash.
Seriously it's like y'all haven't even played the game.
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Guynamednelson
Smash Legend
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There are three songs you can play on misc. Nintendo stages: Blue Birds, Monkey Watch, Fruit Basket.
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
The same way his supporters throw every character that already has a spirit in the trash, literally the only reason anyone is talking about him is his lack of a spirit, which shouldn’t have any relevance anyhow on its own.
Mother 3 is actually one of my favorite RPGs of all time, I just don’t think the series needs anymore reps in Smash at this point.
Maybe more people could play the game if Nintendo actually bothered to release it outside of Japan, preferably on a modern platform.
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TheCJBrine
Smash Legend
Some supporters don't, me included. I don't even find him likely (as much as I'd love it if he's in), I just find y'all's points aren't the best, mainly due to ignoring his role and the stuff regarding Mother 3 I've mentioned.
And he actually was talked about some before all Spirits were known, so it's more of a thing that gave some people hope, though they lean on the "Spirits Disconfirm" theory that I feel has holes due to possibilities people ignore.
-regarding the "Mother 3" thing again, he's the same dang character in both games, I don't understand how this matters a single bit; he's not exclusive to Japan, he's in the West, his role in EarthBound is major, and Sakurai listened to the Lucas fans for Smash 4 DLC and added more Mother 3 representation so y'all can't really say he wouldn't bring back Porky in some form anyway if this Mother 3 point even matters the slightest bit given the other stuff I mentioned. I guess y'all just defaulted to that though since y'all didn't care to respond to the other post...
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Michael the Spikester
Smash Obsessed
Grant said the same for Banjo. Look how that turned out.
Door Key Pig
Smash Lord
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Yeah there's three songs under miscellaneous songs for each of the Western-released titles, and in Smash 4 it had trophies and an enemy in Smash Run.
In terms of Tibby being an option (an underdog pick), it couldn't have been him that was the one considered for Smash 4 as he only debuted in 2015, so I'm not sure if it would fly if it's not the character Sakurai previously picked, but who knows? Maybe they could have gone for a slightly more topical choice, or different one just for whatever reason. If it was the Chorus Kids like the Gemetsu leak said, that DOES have a spirit (alongside Reporter and Wrestler and Karate Joe), complicating things. If it was actually Marshall, assuming the leaker misread it in English writing as Chorus Man or something (some theory I saw here years ago, not sure if it holds water), it'd make sense for it to be Tibby as he'd be the more recent game host character (albeit from a now four years old game that was only released digitally in the US... But still?) Beyond that, would it have to be "the most recognisable" Rhythm Paradise character? Were those choices that had that over Tibby thanks to seniority doomed to Spirit-dom? Or as long as the series representation was clear perhaps through titling (call them "Rhythm League", "Rhythm Heaven", "Mr. Rhythm Heaven"...) and a kit blatantly referencing the mingames for moves (with the trailer showing them all coming at once, representing "Rhythm Heaven: The Character"), would it suffice? Could it thus be anything from a combination team character ala Duck Hunt to the Barista dog from the series?
WHO ELSE BUT LLOYD???
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Michael the Spikester
Smash Obsessed
Man how much I wish this leak was true.
https://boards.4channel.org/v//thread/474556395/new-information-for-smash-ultimate
Doom Slayer and Phoenix Wright. Now that'd be icing on cake!
https://boards.4channel.org/v//thread/474556395/new-information-for-smash-ultimate
Doom Slayer and Phoenix Wright. Now that'd be icing on cake!
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
Not to mention a second Fighter’s Pass.
Flyboy
Smash Hero
I don't know how many times I have to say that Joker and Hero appeal to two completely different demographics. Lloyd would probably tie closer to one or the other but even he is from an action RPG rather than a standard turn-based RPG. He would also appeal to the GameCube crowd. And if we get someone like Velvet Crowe instead, that's a different set of players altogether since different Tales games appeal to different people even that way.
It's not as clear cut a difference in demographic that a character from an FPS or visual novel would bring but it's definitely different enough.
Leotsune
Smash Journeyman
"2nd fighters pass"... Yeah I think I'll pass.
As much as I'd love to see this being real, Ori had already been leaked days ago, besides, there is no way they are going to start a second fighters pass when the first one isn't even halfway done.
At this point I don't really care who the last 2 fighters are, they sold me FP with Joker, what I really want is for Sakurai to take a break from Smash.
The man has already done a lot for us, and yet here we are, asking for even more.
Izanagi97
Smash Lord
Honestly, the only thing that seems plausible is Banjo releasing some time after the next wave of Amiibo and I'm more inclined to believe that said release will be early October since September is packed to high hell
Korar
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If you don't care who the next fighters are, why are you on the newcomer speculation thread?
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
Well, Sakurai himself doesn't have to do much of the work with this, they can just put aside a special team for it, which is what's pretty much been going on for the Fighter's Pass. The Switch is only at the beginning of its lifespan so it’s going to be a long time before we think about another entry anyway.
I normally wouldn't care for years of paid DLC either, but given that this is the last game to bring back every single character and that the vast majority of the stages are returning from previous games, I'd say this is kind of a special scenario. I’d prefer a bunch of Fighter’s Passes to a Smash 6 with a cut down roster.
ROBnWatch
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To throw in my opinions on the Porky stuff that’s been brought up recently...
Porky is the most recognizable villain from his series next to Giygas, and even then the two can easily be switched around. (Speaking of, why do neither of the two biggest villains of the series have anything to represent them???)
If they wanted to include Porky as a boss, but scrapped him, I see no reason why the Spirit that likely would’ve come with him couldn’t at least be summonable. However, I can still see him returning as a boss in a future update, though I don’t know how likely it is they’d throw in more bosses since we already have the nice round number of 10.
As for Mother 3 not being officially released in the West, nearly everyone that wants to play the game has already done so via the fan translation. Nintendo has even acknowledged the demand for the game at that one Robot Chicken E3 stunt. And yes, apart from that, they haven’t really done anything about it, but I highly doubt they don’t recognize the demand and don’t recognize how many people have already had experience with the game.
There’s also the comment that “all his supporters back the Spirits Deconfirm theory”. To offer a different perspective from CJBrine, I do follow with this theory. But I also think that, as a whole, the entire Smash community is split on this issue. In other words, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that any given person supporting any given character may have a different view than another person supporting the same character. Both sides of the issue are pretty common to find.
Finally, there’s the argument that all characters so far have been third party. And for the most part, I think the last 2 will be as well (as much as I don’t want them to because there’s a very small pool of third parties left I care about). This is perhaps the biggest “deconfirmation argument” for Porky, as well as all other first parties. However, I do think it’s (very slightly) possible that the final 2 are both Nintendo characters. I don’t think we’ll only get 1 Nintendo character though (unless it’s a bonus outside the pass). For me personally, I view the last two as both third party, or both first party. For this argument, there is no real evidence either way, as everyone (so far) is completely in the dark about who the final 2 will be.
I’m not trying to attack anyone’s opinions with this post, just trying to reinforce/state my own thinking, as well as some other people’s as well. It’s acknowledged that first parties are sleeper candidates for the final two spots too, so I’m also not saying any of what I’ve said is hard evidence. Just the way I look at things and that, while unlikely, these things still have the possibility of happening, however small.
Porky is the most recognizable villain from his series next to Giygas, and even then the two can easily be switched around. (Speaking of, why do neither of the two biggest villains of the series have anything to represent them???)
If they wanted to include Porky as a boss, but scrapped him, I see no reason why the Spirit that likely would’ve come with him couldn’t at least be summonable. However, I can still see him returning as a boss in a future update, though I don’t know how likely it is they’d throw in more bosses since we already have the nice round number of 10.
As for Mother 3 not being officially released in the West, nearly everyone that wants to play the game has already done so via the fan translation. Nintendo has even acknowledged the demand for the game at that one Robot Chicken E3 stunt. And yes, apart from that, they haven’t really done anything about it, but I highly doubt they don’t recognize the demand and don’t recognize how many people have already had experience with the game.
There’s also the comment that “all his supporters back the Spirits Deconfirm theory”. To offer a different perspective from CJBrine, I do follow with this theory. But I also think that, as a whole, the entire Smash community is split on this issue. In other words, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that any given person supporting any given character may have a different view than another person supporting the same character. Both sides of the issue are pretty common to find.
Finally, there’s the argument that all characters so far have been third party. And for the most part, I think the last 2 will be as well (as much as I don’t want them to because there’s a very small pool of third parties left I care about). This is perhaps the biggest “deconfirmation argument” for Porky, as well as all other first parties. However, I do think it’s (very slightly) possible that the final 2 are both Nintendo characters. I don’t think we’ll only get 1 Nintendo character though (unless it’s a bonus outside the pass). For me personally, I view the last two as both third party, or both first party. For this argument, there is no real evidence either way, as everyone (so far) is completely in the dark about who the final 2 will be.
I’m not trying to attack anyone’s opinions with this post, just trying to reinforce/state my own thinking, as well as some other people’s as well. It’s acknowledged that first parties are sleeper candidates for the final two spots too, so I’m also not saying any of what I’ve said is hard evidence. Just the way I look at things and that, while unlikely, these things still have the possibility of happening, however small.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
Agreed, Banjo makes more sense on the first week of October after DQXI S. After all, Hero was released a few days after 3H which was the last big release of July.
Leotsune
Smash Journeyman
Because I do care about the speculation scene, whoever ends up being the last 2 DLC I'll be happy, in the meantime, its fun to interact and discuss with other people about a game you love.
Korar
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Fair enough - sorry if i came across as aggressive, i was honestly just curious.
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
To clarify, these songs are Blue Birds (a fan favorite from Rhythm Heaven), Monkey Watch (a cute one from Rhythm Heaven Fever), and Fruit Baskets (
To be honest the song selection is pretty terrible. None of them work as battle themes and most of them aren't even that memorable. I mean, Monkey Watch was cute but it doesn't compare to the likes of Ringside or Air Rally. As for the Megamix song, Tongue Lashing (it's about a chameleon), Sumology, and Kitties! would have made a better battle theme and the latter two are probably the most memorable of the new ones from that game (Though I suppose if the flaw with Tongue Lashing is that they'd have a song called Tongue Lashing).
Also I just realized that the Fruit Baskets song is actually Fruit Baskets 2. That's gonna bug me.
I don't know about Porky but Gigas's first appearance was called the Devil Machine (a name I don't see getting into Super Smash Bros.) and its second appearance is literally a background. That may be why they didn't add the character as a spirit.
Idon
Smash Legend
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Well, we have "Devil" as an assist trophy so it should be fine. He's the blue chibi devilman guy that points towards a direction and moves the screen that way.
ROBnWatch
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Hmmm, one thing they could do is use Giegue (antagonist from EarthBound Beginnings) as a Spirit instead, since he is the same alien as Giygas. Giegue also looks nearly identical to Mewtwo, so there’s your Spirit battle right there. Have him maybe favor smash attacks with a Starman Assist trophy?
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
Oh yeah. I forgot about that.
That would be cool too. It would create a new generation of people that have no idea how to pronounce Giegue. lol
ProfPeanut
Smash Ace
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It's impossible to take Porky discussion seriously, knowing that Masked Kid was the third Earthbound rep promoted back in the Brawl days.
Porky's circumstances are literally completely unchanged between then and now. He had all the time in the world to get a sizable support base to rival Ninten or Masked Kid, but he got nothing done until all his competition got Spirited away.
If any of his arguments had any real substance, he'd have been the second Earthbound rep instead of Lucas.
Porky's circumstances are literally completely unchanged between then and now. He had all the time in the world to get a sizable support base to rival Ninten or Masked Kid, but he got nothing done until all his competition got Spirited away.
If any of his arguments had any real substance, he'd have been the second Earthbound rep instead of Lucas.
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Lol, was that intentional?
TheCJBrine
Smash Legend
Lucas is a protagonist, and Sakurai had plans for him even during Melee development. Porky is still a major antagonist, just moreso in Mother 3. People still wanted him and discussed stuff before Spirits. I wouldn’t be surprised if the spirits thing just made some silent people decide to speak up; every fanbase has people like this, speaking up when something seems more relevant and it grabs their attention, maybe even people who started realizing how much they like the idea after it came to them.
Yeah, we likely won’t get another Mother character, but ignoring the usual speculation, there’s nothing really against Porky or any other ones except for the possibility Nintendo and Sakurai don’t want any, and there’s nothing against Porky himself unless Sakurai wants Ninten as the first protagonist or another character for whatever reason.
I think I spelled it correctly?
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"Hundreds" of fans?
Idon
Smash Legend
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TheCJBrine
Smash Legend
Idk man, I don’t really hang around the community.
Though based on YouTube and the games’ sales I really should’ve put thousands if not hundreds of thousands at the very least tbh.
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TheYungLink
Smash Lord
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EarthBound's fanbase is easily above "hundreds", speaking as a fan, but they mostly commune online. The series is much, MUCH more well-known now to the point where some people even call it "overrated". It, and the series it's attached to, never got that reception 10 years ago.
For a series that finished back in 2006, I'm very happy with the amount of people that know about it these days. Still hoping for a worldwide Mother 3 release sometime within the next 20-30 years, but otherwise I don't really care about having Porky in Smash as I believe Ness and Lucas by themselves represent the series just fine.
For a series that finished back in 2006, I'm very happy with the amount of people that know about it these days. Still hoping for a worldwide Mother 3 release sometime within the next 20-30 years, but otherwise I don't really care about having Porky in Smash as I believe Ness and Lucas by themselves represent the series just fine.
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