Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Majority" of fans more being like a vocal minority. I don't think Sakurai or Nintendo particularly cared about this vocal minority when choosing Hero and Chrom for Ultimate, so they certainly shouldn't have any sway over character choices in the future either. Lloyd is from a completely different series with its own rich history, both in gaming and Nintendo. Those who would get "set off" can go pound sand like they did for all the previous "anime swordsman" that they raged over.

The haters may be just a vocal minority, but since it's all I hear you'll have to forgive me for thinking that a character like Lloyd wouldn't sit well with most of the Smash community since it's being released along with Hero. I agree that fan demand shouldn't be the sole deciding factor in character picks (because you can never get the full picture) but it also shouldn't be ignored either especially in regards to DLC where people are less inclined to say "well I got X character, I'm still happy". So while I think Lloyd and his ilk would be really cool additions I don't think they'd be a good idea to add at this point in time.

 

[Koopaul]

I don't think Sakurai's concerned about meeting quotas.
By the same logic, I don't think Crash is any less likely because of Banjo-Kazooie being an anthropomorphic platforming mascot.

I didn't really say anything about Sakurai. I was just explaining why people complain about a certain character type.

Imagine if we got Doomguy, Master Chief, Marcus Fenix, and some Call of Duty guy. People would be like: "Ugh! Another FPS Marine!"

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The haters may be just a vocal minority, but since it's all I hear you'll have to forgive me for thinking that a character like Lloyd wouldn't sit well with most of the Smash community since it's being released along with Hero. I agree that fan demand shouldn't be the sole deciding factor in character picks (because you can never get the full picture) but it also shouldn't be ignored either especially in regards to DLC where people are less inclined to say "well I got X character, I'm still happy". So while I think Lloyd and his ilk would be really cool additions I don't think they'd be a good idea to add at this point in time.

Well if it’s “all you hear” you should probably be expanding your horizons and browsing more places then. There are plenty of people out there that would absolutely love a new Tales Rep. Maybe don't take 4Chan and GameFAQs as representative of the entire Smash Community.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well if it’s “all you hear” you should probably be expanding your horizons and browsing more places then. There are plenty of people out there that would absolutely love a new Tales Rep.

I know that. Personally, Lloyd is one of the few characters that would excite me just on who they were (the only other one that comes to mind is Amaterasu). But considering that Tales characters aren't brought up very often (and if they are they are usually brought up because they're listing off possible Namco characters) I think the series has more of a cult following, at least in the west. I could be wrong; I do live under a rock pretty much, but this is what I've observed.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

To be fair, even if it is a vocal minority we did get a lot of "anime swordsman" and other anime-esue characters in Smash 4, and in some ways it is a legitimate concern. It's not just baby sand pounding, there is legitimate cause for concern. In regards to Lloyd, there's another Namco rep I'm hoping for so I wouldn't want him in based on competition, but even without that I don't think this is the time to introduce him. Even if their games play differently, I think 3 JRPG reps on the pass would be a bit much and definitely a turn off for plenty of people. I'd be more open to Lloyd (or someone like Chrono) on the pass if we hadn't gotten the Heroes (who are surprisingly fun additions), and I definitely think Lloyd deserves a spot on the roster. I just don't think this is the time to introduce him.

Also an unrelated but interesting point I remembered was that Dark Souls was the only non-Pac Man and non-Smash Namco property to get an amiibo.

 

[Door Key Pig]

I think 100%. I'm sold on the Google Leak.
But that's certainly not the consensus.

But wasn't that deconfirmed since it didn't have Hero/Erdrick in it?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

But wasn't that deconfirmed since it didn't have Hero/Erdrick in it?

I believe so. I think Banjo was in that one, and also Artorias from Dark Souls but I forgot who else was in it

Likewise there was one around the same time that had I think Joker, Hero, Edelgard, Phoenix Wright, “Baboom” (possibly Grookey’s third evolution), and a free “Countess” echo for Joker (probably Kasumi Yoshizawa). Speculative unconfirmed names aside it lacked Banjo so that one’s also fake

 

[GoodGrief741]

Pre-Hero: "Man, I hope Erdrick doesn't join Smash, he would just be so boring! I don't want anymore Marth clones."

Post-Hero: "Man, I hope [insert JRPG character] doesn't join Smash, they would be so boring! I want more unique characters like Hero."

Jesus Christ, do people ever learn?

 

[N3ON]

How many dev's have put down their characters as not being in the fighters pass already?
There are only two spots left so unless we are getting a second fighters pass, It's pretty likely that most of the dev's who said their characters aren't in are most likely telling the truth. regardless of one rare exception.

That doesn't mean you have to write these characters off completely mind you, but chances are probably higher than not that the given characters turned down are not in. So it might be for the best to keep expectations low eitherway.

That's just me though.

Right. I was saying they're all probably telling the truth.

...I see what you did there.

...didn't read the post he was quoting? >_>

 

[Nquoid]

I believe so. I think Banjo was in that one, and also Artorias from Dark Souls but I forgot who else was in it

Likewise there was one around the same time that had I think Joker, Hero, Edelgard, Phoenix Wright, “Baboom” (possibly Grookey’s third evolution), and a free “Countess” echo for Joker (probably Kasumi Yoshizawa). Speculative unconfirmed names aside it lacked Banjo so that one’s also fake

Some people maintain it's possible since they didn't actually use the name Hero to check and Artorias might have gotten in because of the DLC named after him.

Obviously it's sketchy as hell and impossible to replicate, but I certainly would not be mad with a Ryu Hayabusa and Doomslayer as the final 2 characters in the pass.

 

[N3ON]

Pre-Hero: "Man, I hope Erdrick doesn't join Smash, he would just be so boring! I don't want anymore Marth clones."

Post-Hero: "Man, I hope [insert JRPG character] doesn't join Smash, they would be so boring! I want more unique characters like Hero."

Jesus Christ, do people ever learn?

People don't like being told they'll defend whatever ends up on the roster, but oh man it's so obvious.

Underselling Sakurai's ability to make a distinct character is also pretty common. People generally just impose their own limited creativity onto a character when judging their potential.

 

[Flyboy]

Tales would be a limp noodle/wet fart/heavy sigh of a character addition. Hopefully DQ's 4 different spiky haired sword bois fulfilled everyone's needs for spiky haired sword bois.

except that Tales is a completely different game series with completely different mechanics and completely different demographics and some protagonists such as Velvet Crowe don't even use swords and Lloyd has been a popular fan request since brawl but go off I guess

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'd be more open to Lloyd (or someone like Chrono) on the pass if we hadn't gotten the Heroes (who are surprisingly fun additions), and I definitely think Lloyd deserves a spot on the roster. I just don't think this is the time to introduce him.

There is no "later time", this is Smash Ultimate, literally meant to be the definitive edition of Smash for possibly the next decade or so. Whatever newcomer doesn't get into this one, gets into a watered down roster with cuts, or might not even get in at all ever.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I thought Doomabusa was from that 5ch leak that was fake cause it spelled Erdrick’s Katakana as Erdrick instead of his JP name, Roto, as well as having Steve instead of Banjo?

Did the Google “leak” have Doomabusa too? I only remember the obvious Joker, Banjo and Artorias but no DQ Hero there. I still think the Google leak is as fake as the Grinch though, like I literally believe someone shelled out bucks to trick the algorithm or whatever

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Tales would be a limp noodle/wet fart/heavy sigh of a character addition. Hopefully DQ's 4 different spiky haired sword bois fulfilled everyone's needs for spiky haired sword bois.

except that Tales is a completely different game series with completely different mechanics and completely different demographics and some protagonists such as Velvet Crowe don't even use swords and Lloyd has been a popular fan request since brawl but go off I guess

DOOM would be a limp noodle/wet fart/heavy sigh of a character addition. Hopefully Metroid's 2 different helmet wearing gun shooters fulfilled everyone's needs for helmet wearing gun shooters.

 

[Nquoid]

I thought Doomabusa was from that 5ch leak that was fake cause it spelled Erdrick’s Katakana as Erdrick instead of his JP name, Roto, as well as having Steve instead of Banjo?

Did the Google “leak” have Doomabusa too? I only remember the obvious Joker, Banjo and Artorias but no DQ Hero there. I still think the Google leak is as fake as the Grinch though, like I literally believe someone shelled out bucks to trick the algorithm or whatever

5chan was Steve rather than Banjo wasn't it?

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Pretty much all of the leaks and theories are out the window right now.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

How some fans might actually feel about certain characters being added was not a factor in the decision making process.

Nintendo gave Sakurai a list of possible DLC, presumably based on who they thought would sell best.

Sakurai's process for choosing from that list is far less clear. It might include how he thought fans would react.

"Would fans be turned off by this character?" is not a question speculation should try to answer.

Questions it should try to answer include:

• "How well would Nintendo have thought this character would sell?"
• if yes, "Would Sakurai have chosen this character?"
• and possibly "Would Sakurai have thought this character's addition would cause significant number of fans displeasure?" and "Would he care?"

 

[YoshiandToad]

Right. I was saying they're all probably telling the truth.


...didn't read the post he was quoting? >_>

Maybe <_< My bad.

Okay, I see what you did there.

 

[yeet123]

DOOM would be a limp noodle/wet fart/heavy sigh of a character addition. Hopefully Metroid's 2 different helmet wearing gun shooters fulfilled everyone's needs for helmet wearing gun shooters.

Judging by your Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Weeks: Sleep into Light Remixed Definitive Edition avatar, I touched a nerve re: anime swordbois.

Look, idc who we get in now cause I got my boy Banjo...


BUT, comparing DoomGuy/Samus/Dark Sammy to . Lloyd/Cloud/Hero/Chrom/Lucina/Robin/Marth/Roy/Joker/Pit/Pittoo/Corrin/Shulk is laughable.

I got nothing against the JRPG/anime aesthetic (my avatar is Jojo for chrissakes). But you can't tell me that Smash's roster isn't filled to the brim with these types of characters ESPECIALLY from Sm4sh onwards.

 

[KillerCage]

But wasn't that deconfirmed since it didn't have Hero/Erdrick in it?

That should have killed the theory, but apparently no one on PapaGenos's Discord tried out "Hero" because they thought the name would be too generic. If they had tested "Hero," supposedly it would have triggered the Fighters' Pass ad. Artorias was on shaky ground considering DLC for other games could trigger the ad and "Artorias" is used in the name of one of Dark Souls' DLC packs. I think Google Theory is still alive though my faith in it has been shaken.

 

[yeet123]

That should have killed the theory, but apparently no one on PapaGenos's Discord tried out "Hero" because they thought the name would be too generic. If they had tested "Hero," supposedly it would have triggered the Fighters' Pass ad. Artorias was on shaky ground considering DLC for other games could trigger the ad and "Artorias" is used in the name of one of Dark Souls' DLC packs. I think Google Theory is still alive though my faith in it has been shaken.

Google Theory did have 4 characters involved in it tho: Banjo, Doom, Ryu, and Artorias. The theory is on life support, if not dead.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Judging by your Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Weeks: Sleep into Light Remixed Definitive Edition avatar, I touched a nerve re: anime swordbois.

Look, idc who we get in now cause I got my boy Banjo...

Ah, using my profile picture against me. That’s how I can tell you have no arguments left.

BUT, comparing DoomGuy/Samus/Dark Sammy to . Lloyd/Cloud/Hero/Chrom/Lucina/Robin/Marth/Roy/Joker/Pit/Pittoo/Corrin/Shulk is laughable.

How so, exactly? If you actually bothered to play those character’s games you could probably tell there are about as much similarities between them as Metroid/DOOM/Halo/etc.

I got nothing against the JRPG/anime aesthetic (my avatar is Jojo for chrissakes). But you can't tell me that Smash's roster isn't filled to the brim with these types of characters ESPECIALLY from Sm4sh onwards.

Filled to the brim the same way Smash has been “filled to the brim” with cartoony characters from the start?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

People generally just impose their own limited creativity onto a character when judging their potential.

This and they don't care enough (or don't have the time) to do any sort of research when thinking up things. Only a true fan/someone who's done a butt ton of research would be able to properly portray a character with their moveset ideas. This also applies to me when I said Lloyd wouldn't do anything we haven't seen before with other sword characters. I took what I saw from a surface level, and didn't have much else to go on. To be honest if you have the time you could probably find an interesting moveset for anything. Even the dumb stuff like Tetrominos.

EDIT: Since this kinda dissolves one of my previous statements let me shift it a little bit. I don't think Lloyd will look too different from the other sword fighters on a surface level much like how people will lump Marth, Roy, Ike, and Robin together when they have almost no similarities in playstyle.

But you can't tell me that Smash's roster isn't filled to the brim with these types of characters ESPECIALLY from Sm4sh onwards.

Which should be expected honestly. It's a popular style in the east and almost all of the characters in the roster are eastern characters. I think the hate comes from standard displeasure that x character got in over theirs mixed with wondering why a lot of the new characters seem to be aimed at a demographic you don't really care for.

To be honest it doesn't really matter. We can gripe all we want but what's in is what's in. All we do is affect what happens in the next game.

There is no "later time", this is Smash Ultimate, literally meant to be the definitive edition of Smash for possibly the next decade or so. Whatever newcomer doesn't get into this one, gets into a watered down roster with cuts, or might not even get in at all ever.

This is the curse of Ultimate. Any newfound joy will be tinged with the pain of loss. I kinda want to know how they plan to try and combat this.

 

[yeet123]

Ah, using my profile picture against me. That’s how I can tell you have no arguments left.

*proceeds to respond to my valid arguments*

How so, exactly? If you actually bothered to play those character’s games you could probably tell there are about as much similarities between them as Metroid/DOOM/Halo/etc.

I have played those games; theyre fantastic and varied. BUT, all the characters look like they could be in the same game. Smash is a celebration of character design, give us some variety.

Filled to the brim the same way Smash has been “filled to the brim” with cartoony characters from the start?

Yeah... I wish Nintendo's mascots were more hardcore. Lol *sarcasm*

 

[SargeAbernathy]

That should have killed the theory, but apparently no one on PapaGenos's Discord tried out "Hero" because they thought the name would be too generic. If they had tested "Hero," supposedly it would have triggered the Fighters' Pass ad. Artorias was on shaky ground considering DLC for other games could trigger the ad and "Artorias" is used in the name of one of Dark Souls' DLC packs. I think Google Theory is still alive though my faith in it has been shaken.

The theory is so close to being 100% deconfirmed, and its only semantics that keeps it from being dead.

Although they didn't test "Hero", and Nintendo named Erdrick: "Arusu" ... I would think they would've tested Luminary at least once. In addition, I don't see why they WOULDN'T have associated the name Erdrick the the DLC pack since that's a common name for him.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

*proceeds to respond to my valid arguments*

Who said anything about them being valid?

I have played those games; theyre fantastic and varied. BUT, all the characters look like they could be in the same game. Smash is a celebration of character design, give us some variety.

And the same applies to Metroid and DOOM and Halo.

Yeah... I wish Nintendo's mascots were more hardcore. Lol *sarcasm*

Didn’t ask for hardcore mascots, just pointed out there were a lot of cartoony characters as well, so you shouldn’t single out “anime” characters. Who’s against variety now?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Pre-Hero: "Man, I hope Erdrick doesn't join Smash, he would just be so boring! I don't want anymore Marth clones."

Post-Hero: "Man, I hope [insert JRPG character] doesn't join Smash, they would be so boring! I want more unique characters like Hero."

To be fair, I wish Hero was more boring than he ended up being...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I have played those games; theyre fantastic and varied. BUT, all the characters look like they could be in the same game.

That's because they are in the same game with a unified artstyle. lol. If you took the official artwork of each character from their original games you could probably tell which of these things is not like the others. That being said though they do share a bunch of different stylistic choices due to being anime inspired, and that's what people pick up on. It doesn't help that most western people that aren't into anime tend to bag on it because it's cool to do so or something.

Didn’t ask for hardcore mascots, just pointed out there were a lot of cartoony characters as well, so you shouldn’t single out “anime” characters. Who’s against variety now?

I believe yeet123's point is that most of the new characters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate have a general anime vibe and that he would prefer something different. And yes Doom is similar to Metroid but there is less of that kinda thing in terms of character design then there is of the anime stuff.

From walking balls to dinosaurs, cartoon style characters are inherently more varied in terms of design, so I think that's why no one (that I know of) ever gripes about having a bunch of cartoon style characters on the roster.

 

[yeet123]

I believe yeet123's point is that most of the new characters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate have a general anime vibe and that he would prefer something different. And yes Doom is similar to Metroid but there is less of that kinda thing in terms of character design then there is of the anime stuff.

From walking balls to dinosaurs, cartoon style characters are inherently more varied in terms of design, so I think that's why no one (that I know of) ever gripes about having a bunch of cartoon style characters on the roster.

You're a gentleman and a scholar.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I believe yeet123's point is that most of the new characters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate have a general anime vibe and that he would prefer something different. And yes Doom is similar to Metroid but there is less of that kinda thing in terms of character design then there is of the anime stuff.

From walking balls to dinosaurs, cartoon style characters are inherently more varied in terms of design, so I think that's why no one (that I know of) ever gripes about having a bunch of cartoon style characters on the roster.

Let’s see:
Cartoony newcomers:/
Realistic newcomers:
Anime newcomers:

Looks like Anime has the least newcomers, unless you want to count each of the individual heroes (which I don’t because they’re just costumes) even then, it’s far from “most of them”, at the absolute worst, it’s an even split.

Counting is fun!

 

[yeet123]

Counting is fun!

Mod Edit: Removed

 

[GoodGrief741]

Let’s see:
Cartoony newcomers:/
Realistic newcomers:
Anime newcomers:

Looks like Anime has the least newcomers, unless you want to count each of the individual heroes (which I don’t because they’re just costumes) even then, it’s far from “most of them”, more like an even split.

Counting is fun!

Nah man you don't get to use numbers here, this is all about how the community feels, y'know?

/S

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ok. This conversation is getting pretty silly. Let's I think it's time to move on.

So um......................................How about Fulgore...or something.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I think part of the mentality is that it's combining 4 and Ultimate's newcomers, the former having a lot of anime added.

Who's Fulgore?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Who's Fulgore?

The character I assume is Killer Instinct's poster boy. Almost certainly not going to be in the pass but I wanted to change the subject before it exploded.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Just a reminder that Banjo-Kazooie's prototype, Project Dream, was originally going to be an RPG with a sword weilding protagonist. Therefore, Banjo is a generic anime swordfighter and the fighters pass has been nothing but weeb crap

 

[tenworldsguy]

This combined with the fact that Lloyd isn't magic (and thus wouldn't be incredibly unique among the sword characters) he would generate a lot of hate for anyone that wasn't already aware and supportive of the character.

Lloyd imo would be the example of "generic anime swordsman". I'm not even against that sort of archetype or a "sword man bad" sort of person but Lloyd has basically nothing new to bring to the table. Even my friend who wants him in badly says he really doesn't see any cool potential for him outside of his character being in.

Somewhat unrelated, but Sakurai clearly does care about fan opinion- nearly all the roster is in because of heavy requests from one group to another (even characters like Chrom and Hero, "nobodies" out here, were requested in Japan), so it's not even that he's gonna add another swordie just for the sake of "lol here's another sword user"

Doesn't Lloyd dual-wield? I can see him being unique just because of that.

So does Corrin. Corrin can also turn into a dragon, if it changes anything.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

The character I assume is Killer Instinct's poster boy. Almost certainly not going to be in the pass but I wanted to change the subject before it exploded.

Nothing wrong with that!

Just had an idea actually, which potential newcomers (from series with multiple stars and protagonists) do you want to see represent their entire series with its content rather than just their game? I haven't explored Joker's content yet but isn't most of it purely Persona 5?

If we do get Dovahkiin/Dragonborn (which I really hope), then it'd be cool to get some Morrowind and Oblivion content alongside him. Plenty of ideas for spirits but a Delfino Plaza-style Imperial City stage would be legendary.


Also Sakurai has been hesitant about more FE reps since Corrin, though I can see why he added in Chrom. He was an easy fan request to fulfill resource-wise, with him being an echo and his model already being in the game. While I wasn't very happy to see him I do see why Sakurai chose to add him.

 

[yeet123]

Just a reminder that Banjo-Kazooie's prototype, Project Dream, was originally going to be an RPG with a sword weilding protagonist. Therefore, Banjo is a generic anime swordfighter and the fighters pass has been nothing but weeb crap

i genuinely lol'd