Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Teeb147]

No, but, if they already have, then there's reason to believe that they think that will be sufficient. There's also a high chance that the Guardian set was added because The Legend of Zelda didn't get a character, and they wanted to give it something, just like with Rex.

We're getting a new HW game, and considering that they're willing to give us nth FE character after all the ones we already got, to promote the game, I would try to think of them like a business, not a rule making crew that goes hey we should only and only have a series' mii costume at the same time as a character from it is released.

 

[Opossum]

A visual novel is absolutely a video game. It's a piece of interactive digital entertainment, that's literally a video game. The genre shares the same roots as the text based adventure games of old.

 

[Teeb147]

A visual novel is absolutely a video game. It's a piece of interactive digital entertainment, that's literally a video game. The genre shares the same roots as the text based adventure games of old.

The first fate stay night is mainly just a book. just on a screen.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

People are way too quick to say Zelda is deconfirmed.

If the Mii Costume was short-haired Zelda or decomposing Ganondorf, then yeah, I might be more willing to say we probably weren't getting a Zelda character. The costume we ended up getting is, let's be honest, a very insignificant part of the orginal BotW that may or may not be present in BotW2 or even AoC. Do I feel like Sakurai was obligated to save that Mii costume for later just because it came from the same universe? No, not really. Do I think Sakurai would choose that costume if we were getting Zelda content later down the road? Not sure, but that's just something we'll have to wait and see. Zelda will likely be relevant in most of 2021, so we could be waiting as late as F11.

WELL that’s a mental image and a half

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

We're getting a new HW game, and considering that they're willing to give us nth FE character after all the ones we already got, to promote the game, I would try to think of them like a business, not a rule making crew that goes hey we should only and only have a series' mii costume at the same time as a character from it is released.

OK then consider this:

• Nintendo considers a fighter from The Legend of Zelda series. They only want one from a new release.
• They know that they already have Link, and the Great Plateau Tower stage, so they're not too concerned about promoting the games.
• They know that the candidates are Impa, who is decently requested, but will only be in a form fitting for Super Smash Bros. in the next game they're going to release; After that, she's back to being super old (and potentially unimportant), so they pass on her.
• They know that the champions, particularly Urbosa, are quite popular as well, but they don't want to make one champion more important than the others, so they pass on that idea as well.
• Nintendo decides to add a Mii Costume instead.

That is the most likely scenario here. It's not that they said no because we already have a Mii Costume, it's that they did not choose to have a fighter, and added a Mii Costume instead. This applies to all Mii Costumes that don't come with a fighter from their series. We see the costumes first though, so all we know is that a Mii Costume means that a character is not coming from that series.

WELL that’s a mental image and a half

Heh, it was a mental image and a half when they showed it in that trailer.


Man I can't wait to see what comes of it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We're getting a new HW game, and considering that they're willing to give us nth FE character after all the ones we already got, to promote the game, I would try to think of them like a business, not a rule making crew that goes hey we should only and only have a series' mii costume at the same time as a character from it is released.

What does FE have to do with "They'd likely group a Zelda costume with a Zelda character", which is the entire argument?

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

I definitely like Saber, but she does feel like more of an anime character than a gaming one. Like, even though she straight up originated in a game, it somehow just feels like an excuse to have an anime character in Smash.

I'm torn between wanting her, and thinking it would be kinda heretical, tbh.

 

[Teeb147]

What does FE have to do with "They'd likely group a Zelda costume with a Zelda character", which is the entire argument?

You're trying to figure out what nintendo would do, and they think like a business for FE, a new game was enough for them to add another FE character. I don't see how a mii costume stops that in any way.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You're trying to figure out what nintendo would do, and they think like a business for FE, a new game was enough for them to add another FE character. I don't see how a mii costume stops that in any way.

The point isn't that it would stop them from adding a character, it's that it wouldn't exist if they did. It would be a costume from something else.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I am thinking about Alpharad's theory.

He claims CP5 was Tracer, but due the whole controversy where Blizzard censored a Hong Kong player, they removed Tracer and used Byleth. Alpharad claimed the stage is quite rushed.

He admits it is a crazy theory, and I believe it is false, but thoughts?

Much as I love Tracer, she was never CP5. It was always Byleth. I doubt they'd cancel a character and throw away all that work just because a controversy happened.

 

[Teeb147]

OK then consider this:

• Nintendo considers a fighter from The Legend of Zelda series. They only want one from a new release.
• They know that they already have Link, and the Great Plateau Tower stage, so they're not too concerned about promoting the games.
• They know that the candidates are Impa, who is decently requested, but will only be in a form fitting for Super Smash Bros. in the next game they're going to release; After that, she's back to being super old (and potentially unimportant), so they pass on her.
• They know that the champions, particularly Urbosa, are quite popular as well, but they don't want to make one champion more important than the others, so they pass on that idea as well.
• Nintendo decides to add a Mii Costume instead.

That is the most likely scenario here. It's not that they said no because we already have a Mii Costume, it's that they did not choose to have a fighter, and added a Mii Costume instead. This applies to all Mii Costumes that don't come with a fighter from their series. We see the costumes first though, so all we know is that a Mii Costume means that a character is not coming from that series.


Heh, it was a mental image and a half when they showed it in that trailer.


Man I can't wait to see what comes of it.

It's really not the most likely. What?? That's seems like a random story that has no reason to be believed. I see no good reason why them wanting to add the BoW costume has to do with deciding on a zelda rep later down the pass. You dont know at all what made them decide on it for the pass.

I definitely like Saber, but she does feel like more of an anime character rather than a gaming one. Like, even though she straight up originated in a game, it somehow just feels like an excuse to have an anime character in Smash.

I'm torn between wanting her, and thinking it would be kinda heretical, tbh.

I get that. I'm an anime fan and it would be really cool to see her as a fighter, but I just don't think they'd consider her as a fighter since she is primarily manga/anime, but under the form of a hentai VN origin.

 

[SKX31]

The first fate stay night is mainly just a book. just on a screen.

Still though, I don't think that matters all that much when Sakurai's already showcased a more expansive view of what constitutes "video games" than say someone like Ahoy. Ahoy intentionally limited himself though - since the closer you get to the "First Video Game" the blurrier the line gets. As such, he set a much harder border.

With that said, for the sake of "First Video Game" argument he considers the Game and Watch handheld an "electronic game" system instead of a "video game" system, partly because the G&W patent describes it as a "Electronic Toy having a Game Function" (edit: plus the game states being on the screen itself instead of having a changing video signal). Contrast the Game Boy, which has an actual video signal (like what Fate Stay Night relies on). He does admit that the G&W and the Game Boy are borderline cases, but on opposite sides according to his definition:

So yeah, I'd argue that the Fate series should be in the clear on that front.

 

[Teeb147]

Still though, I don't think that matters all that much when Sakurai's already showcased a more expansive view of what constitutes "video games" than say someone like Ahoy. Ahoy intentionally limited himself though - since the closer you get to the "First Video Game" the blurrier the line gets. As such, he set a much harder border.

With that said, for the sake of "First Video Game" argument he considers the Game and Watch handheld an "electronic game" system instead of a "video game" system, partly because the G&W patent describes it as a "Electronic Toy having a Game Function". Contrast the Game Boy, which has an actual video signal (like what Fate Stay Night relies on). He does admnit that the G&W and the Game Boy are borderline cases, but on opposite sides according to his definition:

So yeah, I'd argue that the Fate series should be in the clear on that front.

Well, that's fine for an argument. I'm open to it being considered, but I personally think they'd look at it with the same eyes as manga.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Bit of a weird distinction to make. Game & Watch systems are video games imo

 

[Diddy Kong]

Are we're really going this route now? The Ancient Gear Mii costume is the Zelda DLC character? Are we really damn ****ing serious here?

Impa has all the merits to make it in. She's had a good fanbase since Skyward Sword. Hyrule Warriors was also very recent, and popular, during the ballot days. It's likely she got a decent amount of votes in it. Right now is the very best time to make her enter Smash. Zelda is the biggest franchise Nintendo has with the smallest amount of playable characters, at least new ones.

Impa is a likely candidate

 

[StrangeKitten]

Are we're really going this route now? The Ancient Gear Mii costume is the Zelda DLC character? Are we really damn ****ing serious here?

Impa has all the merits to make it in. She's had a good fanbase since Skyward Sword. Hyrule Warriors was also very recent, and popular, during the ballot days. It's likely she got a decent amount of votes in it. Right now is the very best time to make her enter Smash. Zelda is the biggest franchise Nintendo has with the smallest amount of playable characters, at least new ones.

Impa is a likely candidate

Agreed. Her new design from Age of Calamity slaps!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's really not the most likely. What?? That's seems like a random story that has no reason to be believed. I see no good reason why them wanting to add the BoW costume has to do with deciding on a zelda rep later down the pass. You dont know at all what made them decide on it for the pass.

OK granted, it is a guess, but it's not random.

• We know that the 1st party newcomer DLC picks are promotional in nature, hence the "only wanting one from a new release".
• So far, each character they've added comes from a game with no representation in it. I don't think having representation would stop a character from getting added if Nintendo wants to expand upon the content that's already there, but the more content that's there, the more likely they'd see it as sufficient. The The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild trilogy already has a character, a stage, and a bunch of music tracks, hence my second point.
• The points on Impa and the Champions are valid reasons as to why they would not be added.
• The last point is the result of the previous points.

You're taking my argument and flipping it around. My argument is not that a Mii Costume is the cause of the absence of the character, but that rather, it's the result. I should add that all of the pass characters were decided at the same time, there is no deciding to add a character later on down the line.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think a Resident Evil character would be cool. It's a shame they don't seem to be in the running.

I don't honestly see it that way. I know we had a spirit event near the end of pass 1 (I believe after Terry, when the new pass was already decided). But I also think that most of the ways the 'general consensus' thinks about Smash character speculation tends to be general nonsense that quickly (or very slowly) gets disproven.

 

[cashregister9]

Well, that's fine for an argument. I'm open to it being considered, but I personally think they'd look at it with the same eyes as manga.

They already have spirits from Visual Novels so clearly Nintendo views them as video games, There are spirits from, Famicom Detective Club, Another Code, Hotel Dusk etc.

Are we're really going this route now? The Ancient Gear Mii costume is the Zelda DLC character? Are we really damn ****ing serious here?

Impa has all the merits to make it in. She's had a good fanbase since Skyward Sword. Hyrule Warriors was also very recent, and popular, during the ballot days. It's likely she got a decent amount of votes in it. Right now is the very best time to make her enter Smash. Zelda is the biggest franchise Nintendo has with the smallest amount of playable characters, at least new ones.

Impa is a likely candidate

I cannot see Impa coming with a full pack, All the characters with official art from Botw and Skyward sword already have spirits in the game and if they theme it around Hyrule Warriors then there will only be 4 new spirits, If they add Echoes or Extra characters then Impa has a better chance but as of September 27th I cannot see Impa coming with a full pack.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You're trying to figure out what nintendo would do, and they think like a business for FE, a new game was enough for them to add another FE character. I don't see how a mii costume stops that in any way.

As a business, grouping a Zelda mii costume with a Zelda character makes sense as you'd go "Like Zelda and want more Zelda content in Smash? There's also this mii costume!"
It's the same thing they've done for most Mii costumes too

The first fate stay night is mainly just a book. just on a screen.

Literally does not matter, visual novels are indeed video games

 

[Teeb147]

OK granted, it is a guess, but it's not random.

• We know that the 1st party newcomer DLC picks are promotional in nature, hence the "only wanting one from a new release".
• So far, each character they've added comes from a game with no representation in it. I don't think having representation would stop a character from getting added if Nintendo wants to expand upon the content that's already there, but the more content that's there, the more likely they'd see it as sufficient. The The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild trilogy already has a character, a stage, and a bunch of music tracks, hence my second point.
• The points on Impa and the Champions are valid reasons as to why they would not be added.
• The last point is the result of the previous points.

You're taking my argument and flipping it around. My argument is not that a Mii Costume is the cause of the absence of the character, but that rather, it's the result. I should add that all of the pass characters were decided at the same time, there is no deciding to add a character later on down the line.

You make too many limiting connections as if it matters, when it doesn't.

HW2 is a new game, just like FE Three houses is a new game. It's the same series, and there's nothing to go on that being from a same type of place matters.
We don't even know if dlc picks have to be promotional, only that they can be. Doesn't matter here, but just thought to mention it.
The points on impa and the champions are totally made up, have no bearing on what nintendo would think.

I know exactly your point, it's that they would decide on zelda characters at the start of the pass and if they add a mii costume before a zelda rep, it's because they decided on no zelda rep. It's a weird argument that takes a lot of assumptions.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Are we're really going this route now? The Ancient Gear Mii costume is the Zelda DLC character? Are we really damn ****ing serious here?

Impa has all the merits to make it in. She's had a good fanbase since Skyward Sword. Hyrule Warriors was also very recent, and popular, during the ballot days. It's likely she got a decent amount of votes in it. Right now is the very best time to make her enter Smash. Zelda is the biggest franchise Nintendo has with the smallest amount of playable characters, at least new ones.

Impa is a likely candidate

They're more saying that if we were getting Impa, then the ancient gear would be included with her. I don't know that I agree completely, since it's more of a bonus and isn't being paid for individually, but it would be a strange hint at what's to come that hasn't happened before. The argument does follow the same train of thought as post-release spirits disconfirming, though, so it's not an unreasonable stance.

I could see Impa happening. It would break some precedents, though.

 

[osby]

Well, that's fine for an argument. I'm open to it being considered, but I personally think they'd look at it with the same eyes as manga.

We literally have Visual Novel content in Smash but I guess gatekeeping don't go well with logic.

 

[PeridotGX]

You're trying to figure out what nintendo would do, and they think like a business for FE, a new game was enough for them to add another FE character. I don't see how a mii costume stops that in any way.

It's not "oh we added a Zelda costume we can't add a Zelda character", it's "We aren't adding a Zelda character, we might as well add a costume".

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It's really hard to call Elma an "A-List" when her one game is stuck on an obsolete console for the time being

Pretty sure Xenoblade X has like a 2% chance of staying Wii U exclusive.

 

[SNEKeater]

New Resident Evil series confirmed for Netflix.

Obviously doesn't mean anything for a character in specificity, but this media presence contributes to why RE is the largest game Capcom has available (and why we need to get Jill Valentine).

I disagree. The new CGI series proves that Leon S. Kennedy is the best character in the franchise by putting him in the clear center of the image, and why he should be the one to join Smash.
Claire's also cool though.

 

[Teeb147]

They already have spirits from Visual Novels so clearly Nintendo views them as video games, There are spirits from, Famicom Detective Club, Another Code, Hotel Dusk etc.


I cannot see Impa coming with a full pack, All the characters with official art from Botw and Skyward sword already have spirits in the game and if they theme it around Hyrule Warriors then there will only be 4 new spirits, If they add Echoes or Extra characters then Impa has a better chance but as of September 27th I cannot see Impa coming with a full pack.

All those VNs are interactive.

Impa has a chance because she does, and HW2 is coming.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I cannot see Impa coming with a full pack, All the characters with official art from Botw and Skyward sword already have spirits in the game and if they theme it around Hyrule Warriors then there will only be 4 new spirits, If they add Echoes or Extra characters then Impa has a better chance but as of September 27th I cannot see Impa coming with a full pack.

There's tons of enemies/items/etc. in BOTW. And don't forget she can bring content from BOTW2.

She can also reuse some spirits. Never mind Ganondorf is in BOTW2, an instant easy spirit alone. This isn't a difficult thing to bring a full pack for. Hell, she could bring content from other games that don't have much, like some stuff from the Oracle series, where she plays a decent-sized role in at least one of the games(never mind her design from that game makes for a good spirit too).

Characters almost never lack content choices at this point to bring. Spirits, items, music, stages, etc. There are exceptions, like R.O.B. is a bit harder to gather some stuff as of now, since he still has no stage, unfortunately.

 

[Teeb147]

As a business, grouping a Zelda mii costume with a Zelda character makes sense as you'd go "Like Zelda and want more Zelda content in Smash? There's also this mii costume!"
It's the same thing they've done for most Mii costumes too

HW2 can and would have new mii costumes, so it doesn't really make a difference.

It's not "oh we added a Zelda costume we can't add a Zelda character", it's "We aren't adding a Zelda character, we might as well add a costume".

I know, and there's no good reason to believe that. They can decide to add any type of mii costume , doesn't have to mean they don't also want a zelda character.

 

[Garteam]

I fully disagree with the idea that Spring Man is the mascot. You mention in your comments the idea of large casts- particularly fighting games. He is the character that easily explains the game, a fully new concept (motion controlled first-person fighting game). He visually, and by name, tells parents to buy the game on the cover (which is incredibly important, we can discuss this more if you'd like); but it also explains the concept of the game.

The other characters, the ones with a bit more flavor, are not on the box. This is one of the few arguments as to why Spring Man is the 'mascot.' He is simply the Liu Kang of Mortal Kombat- the one who starts off to explain the game to a new audience. But, Liu Kang is not the mascot of MK- Scorpion is the mascot. Scorpion didnt really gain notoriety until the second game onwards, to the point that now he is used as emphasis on just about any MK media. This is how games based on character ensembles tend to work.

Animal Crossing didnt have a real mascot until Isabelle, many years after it's inception. Hell, the original Pokemon didnt use Pikachu as a mascot, the publishers put Charizard and Venasaur on the cover to sell games to parents... hell, it's the actual reason they switched to using Blastoise in America. Pikachu emerged over time just as- actual- mascots do of ensemble games.

I think given the noted popularity since her reveal, the voted on contest by ARMS patrons, the fact that she is in ARMS, Min Min will likely become the mascot. At the moment, there isn't one, just someone to explain the game.

If Spring Man can do all of the following and still not be considered the game's mascot...

• Be front and centre on the game's cover.
• Be the first character on the character select screen.
• Be the protagonist of both the (allegedly) upcoming Dark Horse graphic novel and the 4Koma comics.
• Get an evil clone character.
• Be centre in the character line-up during ARMS' credits.
• Be one of the most prominent faces in every piece of art that shows off the entire cast.
• Be front and centre in Min Min's final smash (which is meant to show off ARMS' cast).

...then I honestly don't know what it for a character to actually be a mascot.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

All those VNs are interactive.

Impa has a chance because she does, and HW2 is coming.

Fate has multiple endings dependong on your interactions. Fate is a game

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Come on now. You all know they'll simply just add another Fire Emblem rep before they even go with a new Legend of Zelda rep.

 

[pupNapoleon]

With Toad its a situation where everybody knows him yeah; its just that many are not really as excited for him. Its a bit like of there was a big new third person action game based on the original Star Wars trilogy and one of the big advertised playable characters was C-3P0. Yes everyone knows who he is and he's as famous as any of the other SW figures, but on average more people are going to be thrilled to play as Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewie. Toad's been only been allowed one game tor really stand out as something beyond just having similar abilities to Mario or Luigi (Captain Toad) and so what aspect from the Mario games he could bring just isn't as much of a given as it was with a Bowser or Yoshi.

This is almost a really good comparison- but I think you hit exactly why it's a problem. Captain Toad isn't just a new game for Toad in the way that Super Princess Peach was a game with her as the lead- Captain Toad takes some of the few bits of lore that were building in Mario games, puts it into an iconic character- and above all else, creates a game unlike any other game that exists, perhaps even it's own sub genre.

In contrast, C-3P0 never got his own starring standalone movie where his character and the world he inhabits are more fleshed out. He didn't do anything to redefine Star Wars, or the movie industry in any significant way.

 

[Teeb147]

We literally have Visual Novel content in Smash but I guess gatekeeping don't go well with logic.

That's kinda rude.
But I'm open to it being possible, it's just I think nintendo will see it as a manga, because it's not an interactive VN.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know, and there's no good reason to believe that. They can decide to add any type of mii costume , doesn't have to mean they don't also want a zelda character.

If the thought process is so unreasonable, then please offer one reason why it's not beyond "it doesn't matter", which is not a valid counterargument.

 

[cashregister9]

That's kinda rude.
But I'm open to it being possible, it's just I think nintendo will see it as a manga, because it's not an interactive VN.

I'm pretty sure Multiple Endings that change based on what you say throughout the game is a type of interaction

 

[Teeb147]

Fate has multiple endings dependong on your interactions. Fate is a game

of course it does. It'd be a poor VN if it didn't at least have that. but it's barely interactive still.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

of course it does. It'd be a poor VN if it didn't at least have that. but it's barely interactive still.

So it doesn't count as VN but other VNs count as games because of interactions, but Fate's don't count because you said so?

 

[Ivander]

The first fate stay night is mainly just a book. just on a screen.

Fate has multiple endings and even describes the bad endings you get. Hell, depending on your interactions, you can even get a bad ending that the game literally mocks you for getting if you somehow manage to get that ending on the first try rather than the normal ending. It is definitely not "just a book".

 

[Teeb147]

If the thought process is so unreasonable, then please offer one reason why it's not beyond "it doesn't matter", which is not a valid counterargument.

I don't need to offer an argument, because you're the one making assumptions.
But i did talk about arms mii costume, nintendo being a business, but you focus on 'deciding for an entire series at the start of the pass', which doesn't mean they'd want a bonus guardian costume to release at the same time as an HW2 rep.