Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[LiveStudioAudience]

Perhaps we could cross the popular topics of discussion with each other:

How would Geno function in Fire Emblem?

Should the the American centric Master Chief appear in the Japanese centirc Touhou game or Reimu in Halo?

If there was a Smash game made up of the current (fighter like) Assist Trophies, who would be top tier?

 

[Strong-Arm]

Honestly im glad sakurai picks the characters and not the fanbase

 

[Idon]

I think with Megaman you have to consider how historic it is for Capcom and gaming as a whole. How much of its tropes and traditions have become the standard for videogames over the years. Like as far as iconic videogame characters go, Megaman is pretty up there.

There's also the fact that he's the mascot of Capcom and still gets put into every single game they make even if megaman isn't the mega-hit multimedia franchise it used to be.


Even without the fan-demand, I feel relatively confident in saying that Mega man still would've been the first pick for Capcom.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I don't know how I missed that lol
I didn't see Takumi's name in the credits of any of the mainline AA games after AJ so I figured he wasn't there anymore.


Still, I don't see us getting a new AA game for a while, and I've already said this doesn't impact Smash regardless of the series status.

He still works at Capcom but hadn't worked on a mainline Ace attorney since 4.

He wrote the prequel games with Phoenix's great grandfather.

Battle Network huh...On the one hand, I could see them porting it for the fans of the series, but on the other hand, the series is finished, so there's just as good a chance that they'll leave it alone since they can't likely continue it. I mean, unless they decided to make a new story that focuses on new characters or something.

Well the Zero series was completed as well and that got a collection. And the Battle network games were always more popular than the Zero series so it's only really a matter of time till those get a collection to please the fans.

The GBA Megaman games are pretty unique in that they are the only ones with actual endings

 

[Ivander]

Battle Network huh...On the one hand, I could see them porting it for the fans of the series, but on the other hand, the series is finished, so there's just as good a chance that they'll leave it alone since they can't likely continue it. I mean, unless they decided to make a new story that focuses on new characters or something.

Man, I want them to do a Battle Network collection so badly. I absolutely enjoyed playing them. The real issue on why I see them having a hard time doing a Battle Network collection is the fact that starting with 3, they did 2 versions like Pokemon. So a Battle Network collection would have 10 games on it. 12 if they also add Battle Chip Challenge AND somehow Battle Network 4.5. And then there's the possibility of them adding features from Battle Network Double Team DS to the existing games.

And yeah, Battle Network is complete for the most part, but I think you could do a spin-off/semi-sequel that has older versions of the characters that lead up to Lan and Mayl getting married and eventually leads up to Star Force. A Battle Network game that plays like 4.5 would be awesome. It was a JP-only title that actually allowed you to choose your own Navi and have them explore the internet. Basically, think Battle Network 5 or 6, except you choose one of the playable Navis and play with them anytime.

That would be my dream Battle Network game. You start as an original character(whether a customizable one or selecting one out of a set of character with their own backgrounds and original stories) who gets their own Navi of your choice, sorta like Pokemon, but as the game goes, you get another Navi that can somehow create copies of other Navis, technically allowing you to choose any Navi you earn to go through the NET and whatnot. The game's plot revolves around you, the Navi you chose and eventually the other Navi that joins you going around familiar areas from the Battle Network games, meeting older versions of the characters and Navis from past games. At some point, you eventually have to face a new antagonist and you team up with Lan and Megaman.exe to fight against the new antagonist and the story eventually ends with Lan proposing to Mayl, leading up to Battle Network 6's epilogue.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Man, I want them to do a Battle Network collection so badly. I absolutely enjoyed playing them. The real issue on why I see them having a hard time doing a Battle Network collection is the fact that starting with 3, they did 2 versions like Pokemon. So a Battle Network collection would have 10 games on it. 12 if they also add Battle Chip Challenge AND somehow Battle Network 4.5. And then there's the possibility of them adding features from Battle Network Double Team DS to the existing games.

And yeah, Battle Network is complete for the most part, but I think you could do a spin-off/semi-sequel that has older versions of the characters that lead up to Lan and Mayl getting married and eventually leads up to Star Force. A Battle Network game that plays like 4.5 would be awesome. It was a JP-only title that actually allowed you to choose your own Navi and have them explore the internet. Basically, think Battle Network 5 or 6, except you choose one of the playable Navis and play with them anytime.

That would be my dream Battle Network game. You start as an original character(whether a customizable one or selecting one out of a set of character with their own backgrounds and original stories) who gets their own Navi of your choice, sorta like Pokemon, but as the game goes, you get another Navi that can somehow create copies of other Navis, technically allowing you to choose any Navi you earn to go through the NET and whatnot. The game's plot revolves around you, the Navi you chose and eventually the other Navi that joins you going around familiar areas from the Battle Network games, meeting older versions of the characters and Navis from past games. At some point, you eventually have to face a new antagonist and you team up with Lan and Megaman.exe to fight against the new antagonist and the story eventually ends with Lan proposing to Mayl, leading up to Battle Network 6's epilogue.

Battle network 4.5 is cool because it did the Skylanders toy to life thing several years before it was a thing.

It would be cool if this hypothetical battle network collection included the DS remastered version of Battle network 1 instead of the original GBA release.

That version never left Japan and added some extra content that I would like to see localized.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ok, here are my thoughts on 1st party characters. In order to be a realistic pick, they for the most part have to be/have been in the public eye either recently, now, or come next year. They also have to be from a game or series that Nintendo would want to promote, aren't an Assist Trophy, and did not get a Spirit event recently. With this in mind, here's what I think of the characters that I can think of off hand.

• Captain Toad: Captain Toad is probably the best character to celebrate the Super Mario 35th Anniversary with considering how prolific the Toads are. However, he isn't getting any games in the near future (unless you count his levels in Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury), and he's not the most popular of Super Mario characters right now. Also, if he were the pick, there's a high chance that they would have revealed him already.
• King Boo: This would be another Super Mario 35th Anniversary celebration character, but he's less likely, as he's not as good of a character for it. He does have a new game without a Spirit even to my knowledge though so anything's possible. As with Captain Toad though, if he were the pick, there's a high chance that they would have revealed him already.
• Impa: I don't think we'll be seeing her this game unfortunately. Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity may have given her another appearance where she's fighting fit, but that isn't her forseeable future since she'll go back to being super old and probably not that important in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild's sequel. This combined with the Guardian Mii Costume set bundled with the Fighter's Pass Vol. 2 leads me to believe she's got pretty much 0 chance.
• The Champions: They're in the same boat as Impa. They're relevant now, but are unlikely to be in the future, and there's also the Mii Costume. Combine this with the fact that you can't do all of them because that would be 4 characters or pick one because they're a packaged deal, and they've got an abysmal chance of inclusion.
• Dixie Kong: She would likely represent Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, and while that is quite a popular game, I'm not sure Nintendo would pull a character from it when a sequel isn't really in the works right now. Perhaps she'll be a likely candidate for the next game, but for DLC right now, I don't think it looks good for her.
• Bandana Waddle Dee: Bandana Waddle Dee's best bet is the next mainline Kirby game coming out next year. I'm not entirely sure this will be a thing though, and without it, I don't think he has much of a chance at all, even with the bevvy of content he could bring from newer Kirby titles.
• Rex & Pyra/Mythra: I think Xenoblade Chronicles is in a similar spot to Fire Emblem when its representation exploded. I don't think Xenoblade Chronicles will do the same, it doesn't have the impeccable timing that Fire Emblem did, but I do think it has a good shot at getting a character now for this reason. I think Rex & Pyra/Mythra are the likeliest pick because their earlier snub did get people talking about them, and it would bring more content from twoish games rather than the one that already has a lot more content than a few songs, Mii Costumes, and Spirits.

 

[whitesnake]

Between his appearances in marketing, spin-offs and mainline Kirby games in the last 10 years, it seems like everything but Smash has realized how prominent he is.



Even it was a valid argument, it lacked any real punch the moment Piranha Plant got in.

The plant was a bad choice. That does not justify another bad choice

Why are we still using this argument with plant in the game?

the plant was a bad choice. That does not justify another bad choice

 

[Idon]

The plant was a bad choice. That does not justify another bad choice

the plant was a bad choice. That does not justify another bad choice

the plant was a bad choice. Thatjust not justifying other bad choice

But did your first post justify the 2nd and 3rd?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The plant was a bad choice. That does not justify another bad choice

A lot of people say this,

Piranha Plant is a great character, and is super fun to play.

I'd say more but it looks like you're just spamming us so...

 

[whitesnake]

Sorry! Did not mean to post multiple times. Bad internet connection I guess.

love the Kirby franchise but I hope they use the remaining spots for #1 characters of totally absent popular franchises (crash, dante)

 

[N3ON]

If nothing else the plant proves that no matter what people say beforehand, there's really no character people won't defend once they get onto the roster.

And I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing. There's something to be said for being open to reconsideration, but it's also rather shameless conformity since it happens with literally every character.

Regardless, it does undermine both what people say about characters now, and once they get included, frankly. If so many will just turn on a dime in step with the roster.

 

[whitesnake]

A lot of people say this,
View attachment 286875

Piranha Plant is a great character, and is super fun to play.

I'd say more but it looks like you're just spamming us so...

will say I love the creative moveset of the plant. But the general idea of putting him in ahead of other characters I find tough.
Starting from N64 I think of the game as a collection of all stars. Mario, link, DK, Samus etc... I wish they had kept going down a list like this without huge swerves. Just my preference

 

[MooMew64]

I understand it's not for everyone, but I dunno, I think Plant is cool. It fulfilled an old Smash wish of mine where I always thought it'd be fun to have a Mario enemy playable.

My choice would've been Shy Guy, but Plant is equally cool. Piranha Plants have great designs too.

 

[Idon]

A lot of people say this,
View attachment 286875

Piranha Plant is a great character, and is super fun to play.

I'd say more but it looks like you're just spamming us so...

I'm pretty sure it was just an accident, not any malicious intent on their end.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I do think for a crossover fighting game where you could've picked any character from Nintendo's lustrous repitoire, Piranha Plant...

Was not a good decision.

Just goes to show any character would have fans, I suppose. However, I think Bandana Waddle Dee is a magnitude of degrees higher than that, at least to the extent he wouldn't be a literal joke. So I'd be at least neutral for him.

 

[SKX31]

Perhaps we could cross the popular topics of discussion with each other:

How would Geno function in Fire Emblem?

Should the the American centric Master Chief appear in the Japanese centirc Touhou game or Reimu in Halo?

If there was a Smash game made up of the current (fighter like) Assist Trophies, who would be top tier?

Okay, so:

1. Geno would be something like an Archer / Mage hybrid in FE, with the ability to break the damage cap but somewhat vurnerable to fire attacks. His Supports would emphasize the divided loyalties he has towards the higher authority and the player character - if it's taken to the S-tier it gives Geno the ability to temporarily leave the doll form for a couple turns and continue raining down spells - staying (mostly) invurnernable throughout but only being able to target an area per turn.

2. The former. That's because IMHO it'd be funny as **** to see the stoic Chief in the much more lively Touhou setting. Also, Chief would fit in well in a Bullet Hell. What with his multitude of weapons.

3. Tiki, no question. Her dragon form is kinda fast and her main fire attack A) comes out fast - it doesn't care about silly things as slow start up B), has a strong downward angle and covers tons of space, making it a really good down-air and C) does crazy damage and knockback.

Also, something different: What if a RE character fought like this in Smash?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Okay, so:

1. Geno would be something like an Archer / Mage hybrid in FE, with the ability to break the damage cap but somewhat vurnerable to fire attacks. His Supports would emphasize the divided loyalties he has towards the higher authority and the player character - if it's taken to the S-tier it gives Geno the ability to temporarily leave the doll form for a couple turns and continue raining down spells - staying (mostly) invurnernable throughout but only being able to target an area per turn.

2. The former. That's because IMHO it'd be funny as **** to see the stoic Chief in the much more lively Touhou setting. Also, Chief would fit in well in a Bullet Hell. What with his multitude of weapons.

3. Tiki, no question. Her dragon form is kinda fast and her main fire attack A) comes out fast - it doesn't care about silly things as slow start up B), has a strong downward angle and covers tons of space, making it a really good down-air and C) does crazy damage and knockback.

Also, something different: What if a RE character fought like this in Smash?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Well with their luck in actually hitting anything with their guns, it'd be like having a character from the A-Team in Smash too.

 

[SharkLord]

If you want a celebration of gaming, you gotta represent the mooks one way or another. Serving as the heroes' main obstacles to give the player a challenge is integral to the gameplay. It's a thankless job, and deserves some sort of acknowledgement.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Anyway, for what it's worth, I do think for a crossover fighting game where you could've picked any character from Nintendo's lustrous repitoire, Piranha Plant...

Was not a good decision.

I still disagree. If the character can bring something new and fun to the table, then unless the timing is unfortunate, like adding a Fire Emblem character when everyone hates them, then it's a perfectly fine decision.

Besides, it's not like Piranha Plant doesn't have any claim to fame with the whole "all stars" angle (which I don't necessarily agree with to begin with but eh) since it's been omnipresent as an enemy since Super Mario Bros.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I forgot Plant was in this lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also, something different: What if a RE character fought like this in Smash?

I...I have no words for how hilariously stupid this is...

Is this how combat history buffs feel about sword combat in media?

 

[SharkLord]

Okay, so:

1. Geno would be something like an Archer / Mage hybrid in FE, with the ability to break the damage cap but somewhat vurnerable to fire attacks. His Supports would emphasize the divided loyalties he has towards the higher authority and the player character - if it's taken to the S-tier it gives Geno the ability to temporarily leave the doll form for a couple turns and continue raining down spells - staying (mostly) invurnernable throughout but only being able to target an area per turn.

2. The former. That's because IMHO it'd be funny as **** to see the stoic Chief in the much more lively Touhou setting. Also, Chief would fit in well in a Bullet Hell. What with his multitude of weapons.

3. Tiki, no question. Her dragon form is kinda fast and her main fire attack A) comes out fast - it doesn't care about silly things as slow start up B), has a strong downward angle and covers tons of space, making it a really good down-air and C) does crazy damage and knockback.

Also, something different: What if a RE character fought like this in Smash?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

How do you miss every shot?! They're right in front of you! You might as well use your fists!

 

[DarthEnderX]

If nothing else the plant proves that no matter what people say beforehand, there's really no character people won't defend once they get onto the roster.

And I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing. There's something to be said for being open to reconsideration, but it's also rather shameless conformity since it happens with literally every character.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I do think for a crossover fighting game where you could've picked any character from Nintendo's lustrous repitoire, Piranha Plant...

Was not a good decision.

AMEN!

 

[Guynamednelson]

I forgot Plant was in this lol

Sakurai may have pointed out that Piranha Plant was NOT an assist trophy, but it might as well be one since Plant players just use one move.

And no I'm not some filthy Plant hater before you make assumptions, my opinion on its inclusion is "eh, whatever."

 

[3BitSaurus]

Also, something different: What if a RE character fought like this in Smash?

Now, I'm no RE fan, but... I thought the series put weight behind having limited resources and positioning yourself properly in relation to enemies?

So why are they firing guns at point-blank range (missing, might I add) and the clips seem to have have 29390305 bullets each?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sakurai may have pointed out that Piranha Plant was NOT an assist trophy, but it might as well be one since Plant players just use one move.

To be fair, you could say this about a lot of characters like Zelda, Duck Hunt, Sonic, etc. That's what happens when you make a moveset that centers around a specific move/has a move that's too good in comparison to the rest of their kit.

Now, I'm no RE fan, but... I thought the series put weight behind having limited resources and positioning yourself properly in relation to enemies?

So why are they firing guns at point-blank range (missing, might I add) and the clips seem to have have 29390305 bullets each?

Also consider that since they are at point-blank range, and you can't dodge a bullet even at a far range, these guys are either psychic, rolling when they foresee a bullet coming their way, or they're missing on purpose by firing where their opponent was rather than where they are. And, it's likely the latter since they were firing at each other's feet when they were running in circles.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I always wondered in X-COM or in Fallout how soldiers could miss each other when being that close. Leave it to Resident Evil to provide a real time example of how it happens.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't think it's fair to label it as conformity whenever a person defends an unpopular character. Honestly, that comes across as acting like hating or disliking the character is the only socially acceptable response.

I don't love characters like WFT or PP, but I'm also not part of the crowd who chants, "Wasted slot! Wasted slot!" Neither character felt like someone Sakurai wanted us to take seriously, so yeah, I think a yoga instructor and a potted plant that's usually completely immobile were pretty creative choices. Can't say I would keep them over other more important characters if we started talking about cuts, but still.

 

[Schnee117]

If there was a Smash game made up of the current (fighter like) Assist Trophies, who would be top tier?

The unspoken rule of crossovers featuring Zero is that he's always top tier

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Ehhh I can kinda forgive plant cuz I always love the whack picks, and despite being a mook, I do still consider them a pretty iconic character, all things considered.

That being said, when a lot more hotly demanded Mario characters like Waluigi and Geno get assisted/spirited in the process, and we get this barely asked for mook instead, I can definitely understand the backlash haha

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ehhh I can kinda forgive plant cus I always love the whack picks, and despite being a mook I do still consider them a pretty iconic character, all things considered.

That being said when a lot more hotly demanded Mario characters like Waluigi and Geno get assisted/spirited, and then we get a mook like Plant as playable in the process, I can definitely understand the backlash haha

Yeah, I do agree with the notion that if you were to add a wacky character from the Super Mario series, Waluigi would have been a better choice due to his popularity but well...it just wasn't meant to be I guess.

I don't agree that Waluigi being a better choice = Piranha Plant being a bad choice though.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The funny thing with Plant is that I think if it had come in the early days of Smash, it would have been seen as wacky, but not necessarily as a fighter that most would dislike or roll their eyes at.

Coming in when the series had become such a huge deal, with legendary third party characters, and a sense of scale practically unmatched by any other fighting game? Yeah, it ended up sticking out a lot more, regardless of the actual quality of the fighter.

 

[Curious Villager]

In unrelated news, we got an update on one of Level-5's upcoming titles:

Level-5 shares a new trailer and a ton of gameplay from Megaton Musashi, anime airing in Japan in Summer 2021 https://t.co/LmP0NS7sVv pic.twitter.com/FTNq35sauZ

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) September 26, 2020

Say, weird question, but does anybody know the full extent of Level-5's "management problems"? I've heard the term thrown around a bunch, but I haven't seen anybody elaborate on it. Granted, I doubt it would affect their chances of appearing in Smash, but I just wanted to make sure.

From what I've seen from their TGS showing, they seem to be doing quite alright. They've got some event planned for October 5th as well as some more games pending for 2021.

It seems to be mainly that Inazuma Eleven game that has been giving them troubles the past few years.

Whatever they may be going through behind the scenes, I doubt it would have too much of an impact of potentially seeing any of their content present in Ultimate at some point or another.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

So in light of a certain Sega series potentially being announced at TGS to make a comeback, I would like to reiterate my support for a character who has been """deconfirmed""" via Assist Trophy and Mii Fighter costume, yet would still be a cool playable addition to Smash...

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Yeah, I do agree with the notion that if you were to add a wacky character from the Super Mario series, Waluigi would have been a better choice due to his popularity but well...it just wasn't meant to be I guess.

I don't agree that Waluigi being a better choice = Piranha Plant being a bad choice though.

I never said he was a bad choice. I'm honestly pretty neutral on plant all things considered.

Not overwhelmingly positive on the guy, but not really negative either. I'm mostly just amused lol.

 

[Idon]

If you want a celebration of gaming, you gotta represent the mooks one way or another. Serving as the heroes' main obstacles to give the player a challenge is integral to the gameplay. It's a thankless job, and deserves some sort of acknowledgement.

And that's precisely why assist trophies, stage background cameos, items, and other non-fighter roles exist. As far as "opposing the player character" roles deserving of playable fighter, I won't find a shortage of villains, rivals, and enemies that I'd rather prefer. Concerning things that "gotta" be represented in a fighting game roster, I find that's a matter of opinion you and I don't share; mooks aren't meant for the spotlight.

I still disagree. If the character can bring something new and fun to the table, then unless the timing is unfortunate, like adding a Fire Emblem character when everyone hates them, then it's a perfectly fine decision.

Besides, it's not like Piranha Plant doesn't have any claim to fame with the whole "all stars" angle (which I don't necessarily agree with to begin with but eh) since it's been omnipresent as an enemy since Super Mario Bros.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree then.

I feel any character can be made fun and bring something new to the table. That's just the nature of designing game characters. I could not pick out a character from any videogame and not find a single way of making them fun and/or unique. That's why when given the option most people opt to have their favorite characters they want for smash and not a theoretical set of unique character "traits" that they would like.

And as far as all-stars go, anything from Mario is "an all-star." In case you haven't noticed, Mario as a series is an icon. I don't think just being tied to that legacy warrants being a playable fighter in a fighting game where being a fighter is a highly sought after. Otherwise, the question mark block has more Smash merit than most 3rd parties in this game.

 

[SKX31]

I forgot Plant was in this lol

Yeaah... it doesn't help that it has like three unique attacks (the B moves excluding Up-B, which is practically a modified K Rool copter) and otherwise it doesn't stand out to a casual view. It has seem some success in competitive - Brood is a noteworthy Plant player.

Also, Plant has an arguably unique problem of relying too heavily on those B moves. Villager / Isabelle is a nightmarish matchup for Plant since those two can Pocket Ptooie (B) and Poison Breath (Side B). They can straight up deny Plant some of its most important tools.

How do you miss every shot?! They're right in front of you! You might as well use your fists!

Now, I'm no RE fan, but... I thought the series put weight behind having limited resources and positioning yourself properly in relation to enemies?

So why are they firing guns at point-blank range (missing, might I add) and the clips seem to have have 29390305 bullets each?

I always wondered in X-COM or in Fallout how soldiers could miss each other when being that close. Leave it to Resident Evil to provide a real time example of how it happens.

Beyond answering "Holliwood Logic" I have no clue. It's... part of that clip's charm.

I especially love the moment where (who looks like if Wesker had a son) takes Chris' knife and proceeds to somehow **** that up by having his wrist slam into Chris' shoulder and not follow through.

I...I have no words for how hilariously stupid this is...

Is this how combat history buffs feel about sword combat in media?

Am (Armchair) History buff, I can answer... yes.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So in light of a certain Sega series potentially being announced at TGS to make a comeback, I would like to reiterate my support for a character who has been """deconfirmed""" via Assist Trophy and Mii Fighter costume, yet would still be a cool playable addition to Smash...

Obligatory "but we already have Ryu".

I never said he was a bad choice. I'm honestly pretty neutral on plant all things considered.

Not really positive, but not really negative either. Mostly just amused lol.

I wasn't trying to say you did. I was just finishing my thought.

 

[TwiceEXE]

If Smash slots weren't a finite resource I could understand thinking Plant was a good choice. Unfortunately, they are indeed finite. The development time for that character would have been more appreciated if it was almost any other character. There is a reason no one lists Goombas or Moblins as their most wanted; they just don't matter compared to other characters.

The argument that Plant is fun to play and therefore was a good choice holds no water because it necessarily assumes other character options would not be fun to play. Most likely, another character would also be fun to play while making people happy because a character they like was added.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Obligatory "but we already have Ryu".

Dang it, I wanted to make that joke!

Seriously, though, he looks a LOT like Ryu in that picture. Was that intentional?