Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

Who or what is Cuties?

Not appropriate to discuss here, I’ll DM you

Actually, I was referring to the other one. The guy who was from Spain, I believe.

He was the one who claimed to have had a source who told him we were getting a character today.

I think he said his source was, in fact, HotGirlVideos69

 

[CannonStreak]

Not appropriate to discuss here, I’ll DM you



I think he said his source was, in fact, HotGirlVideos69

DM me as well, please.

 

[Cosmic77]

Oh. Was he even credible in the first place?

Not really, but it sounded like he was a notable figure in Smash speculation over there.

Don't think he had a record of getting other things right though, which is why I thought his prediction was probably just as good as anything we could come up with.

I think he said his source was, in fact, HotGirlVideos69

Did he actually come out and say this, or is this something we're assuming? Source?

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Who or what is Cuties?

It’s a movie Netflix acquired about the over-sexualization of young girls and people are outraged over it online without actually watching the movie but instead looking at out-of-context 10 second clips and movie posters as the source of their outrage

 

[CannonStreak]

It’s a movie Netflix acquired about the over-sexualization of young girls and people are outraged over it online without actually watching the movie but instead looking at out-of-context 10 second clips and movie posters

That...probably was better off not said.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Please...No more...

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

That...probably was better off not said.

I mean... am I wrong? People don’t like to hear the truth I guess

 

[Perkilator]

I mean... am I wrong? People don’t like to hear the truth I guess

It’s off-topic and it’s not appropriate to discuss, even if it was on topic.

 

[CannonStreak]

I mean... am I wrong? People don’t like to hear the truth I guess

I would say something on why it doesn't hurt to hear the truth, but I don't wanna get this Cuties thing too far.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

It’s off-topic and it’s not appropriate to discuss, even if it was on topic.

Fair enough, but in my defense I wasn’t the one who originally brought it up.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It’s a movie Netflix acquired about the over-sexualization of young girls and people are outraged over it online without actually watching the movie but instead looking at out-of-context 10 second clips and movie posters as the source of their outrage

Dude when you use actual underage girls and have them do that **** on camera, your original “intention” goes out the window

and that’s all I’ll say so as not to start a derailment

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Guys...Why are you discussing this on the Newcomer thread? Ain't that more of the social thread?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Guys...Why are you discussing this on the Newcomer thread? Ain't that more of the social thread?

My apologies, let’s get back on topic

anyone got a link to the Spanish dude’s twitter? I’ll check it out to see if he said anything new

 

[Calamitas]

Look, I like Geno and would love to see him finally become a fighter (tho I'm 95% sure we will just get his Mii costume back), but do we really need to be talking about him yet again? Pretty sure it's been like a week since the last time. Sometime I think we talk about more than his own thread does.

Indeed, I think we have talked about Geno more than enough in this thread.

So how about we talk about obscure retro Mario character Jeanough instead?

 

[KillerCage]

Guys...Why are you discussing this on the Newcomer thread? Ain't that more of the social thread?

Because we have gone insane due to lack credible information.
We're starving here!

 

[Super Devon]

Anywho, Jin Kazama for Smash

Spoiler: Next, you are going to say.....

 

[Firox]

I want to DM certain people but I see that the "start conversation" option is missing from their profile. Is there another way to DM people or can that option be blocked entirely?

 

[CannonStreak]

Because we have gone insane due to lack credible information.
We're starving here!

A good time for me to post this.

 

[Deleted member]

Not appropriate to discuss here, I’ll DM you

I prefer Discord, if you have that. My Discord is ShinyLegendary BLM#3700 .

 

[chocolatejr9]

Anywho, Jin Kazama for Smash

Spoiler: Next, you are going to say.....

Why would you say somethinh so controversial yet so brave?

... NANI!?!?!

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Dude when you use actual underage girls and have them do that **** on camera, your original “intention” goes out the window

and that’s all I’ll say so as not to start a derailment

I’m not saying that’s not ethically wrong, I’m just saying maybe actually watch the movie before jumping to these wild judgements. The movie won awards and I doubt Netflix is that stupid to acquire some random mindless movie with no message. Sometimes filmmakers have to do risqué things to make a movie with actual substance to it. Everybody just wants everything to be nice and safe nowadays

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I won't mention a certain wooden puppet by name, but I just wanted to say this: if you don't like a character, aren't interested in a character, or dislike their fanbase, you will naturally be inclined to find them more unlikely. Same thing goes for loving a character and finding them super likely.

Some arguments here over a certain character begin with some valid criticisms, but you can see as the discussion goes on that the criticisms are mostly rooted in apathy, not objective standards.

 

[Idon]

Guys please.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I won't mention a certain wooden puppet by name, but I just wanted to say this: if you don't like a character, aren't interested in a character, or dislike their fanbase, you will naturally be inclined to find them more unlikely. Same thing goes for loving a character and finding them super likely.

Some arguments here over a certain character begin with some valid criticisms, but you can see as the discussion goes on that the criticisms are mostly rooted in apathy, not objective standards.

I dunno if that’s true for me. I have a handful of characters I’d love to see that are extremely unlikely because of their designs being subtly to noticeably lewd (considering one of the franchises, it makes sense).

 

[SharkLord]

Anywho, Jin Kazama for Smash

Spoiler: Next, you are going to say.....

Actually I was going to say that I don't know enough about Tekken to know if it would be Jin or Kazuya who'd be more likely after Heihachi.

I won't mention a certain wooden puppet by name, but I just wanted to say this: if you don't like a character, aren't interested in a character, or dislike their fanbase, you will naturally be inclined to find them more unlikely. Same thing goes for loving a character and finding them super likely.

Some arguments here over a certain character begin with some valid criticisms, but you can see as the discussion goes on that the criticisms are mostly rooted in apathy, not objective standards.

Mostly, I think everyone's grown tired of Geno because it's never something like "Hey, Geno's cool" or "I think Geno could have some cool moveset potential." It's always the same, well-worn arguments over if he's popular, deserving, and/or likely, and it never goes anywhere. I'm all for discussion regarding what he could bring, but all the discussion is about chances, to the point that you forget there's even a character behind it all.

 

[Deleted member]

Guys please.
View attachment 285595

That is a perfect image, cormade.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

You know given the still fairly popular nature of Mii Costumes, its a shame they're so tied to new fighters in terms of release. It would greatly break up some of the waiting if we got a few announcements of some in the interim every once in a while, especially for franchises that aren't getting into Smash any time soon.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know given the still fairly popular nature of Mii Costumes, its a shame they're so tied to new fighters in terms of release. It would greatly break up some of the waiting if we got a few announcements of some in the interim every once in a while, especially for franchises that aren't getting into Smash any time soon.

Didn’t they do that with Smash 4, some costumes without a fighter?

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Mostly, I think everyone's grown tired of Geno because it's never something like "Hey, Geno's cool" or "I think Geno could have some cool moveset potential." It's always the same, well-worn arguments over if he's popular, deserving, and/or likely, and it never goes anywhere. I'm all for discussion regarding what he could bring, but all the discussion is about chances, to the point that you forget there's even a character behind it all.

I agree with what you say here. But even then, let's say I try to make a new discussion about Geno. "Geno looks like he'd play a lot of fun, I really like his whole aesthetic and I think he'd be neat."

You know, I'm pretty sure someone did say something along those lines in the past, and they were met with "Geno is too close to Mega Man, he'd be boring and also too similar to Mii Gunner, just make him a Mii Costume."

At the end of the day, nothing is gonna change the fact that a solid 90% of this thread does not like Geno, or does not like talking about Geno anymore. So there's no use in bringing him up in any capacity because even positive statements regarding the character will still eventually result in the same argument.

 

[SKX31]

You know something I've been thinking about is if the already strong pre-sales of the 3D Mario All Stars Collection might lead to other ones in the future, even if Nintendo seems keen tying them to anniversary specific years a lot of the time.

While we're far away from many Smash anniversaries, I wonder if a collection of 64/Melee/Brawl is completely out of the question at some point. Given the minimalist changes we saw for the 3D Mario games, it wouldn't be biggest issue in just putting all three as they are on a disc/digital download and taking in the sales.

That's definetely not out of the question. there is an audience that would welcome the chance to revisit older Smash titles. Not just competitive people, but also people wishing to revisit SSE and other features that are absent in 4 / Ultimate. There are some questions surrounding that though. The competitive Melee scenes has increasingly turned towards modding - which Nintendo are completely against:

Nintendo openly opposes UCF and game modding. For Ultimate, this isn’t a big deal. The game isn’t nearly as broken as Melee and doesn’t need modding. For Melee, modding has already changed the entire competitive scene for the better and could do even more in the future.

The most widely known and talked about mod is Universal Controller Fix – UCF. UCF makes a few simple changes to the game’s code so that all controllers will have roughly the same performance, not just a few select extra good controllers. This is a huge deal because prior to UCF, controllers were one of Melee’s actual johns.

UCF helps reduce the unfair advantage controllers can create and it’s accepted by a wide majority of the community. It can be so crucial that Leffen successfully lobbied to have his match against ChuDat remade when he found that UCF wasn’t on. The remake was immensely controversial but it stood.

FTR, UCF is meant to adress two things: 1. Dashing back, which is a severe problem in vanilla Melee since it's 1 frame (more often, less than that). Aka. so inhumanely fast that most controllers could outright fail that. If a dash back fails one enters the much slower turn around animation (IIRC 6 frames). UCF increases the dashback window to 2 frames. 2. Shield dropping (holding shield, then dropping through a platform to land more safely). It's also inconsistent and controller-dependent in vanilla Melee. And UCF made sure that could be done on any controller.

Before UCF, Melee pros like Armada would make sure their controller was properly malfunctioning (yes) so they could dash back consistently.

UCF also reduces controller turnover and slows down the hunt for GameCube controllers. This is a big deal because Melee increasingly faces finite supplies of things like controllers and CRT TVs. Something like UCF could have a long term effect on Melee’s lifespan. Losing UCF wouldn’t by any means doom Melee but it would make it worse. Nintendo would likely oppose any modded software in a tournament they ran. Once again, Nintendo is here to sell units and it’s not making these mods. If anything, these mods make its units look worse by comparison.

One way Nintendo could go about this is to implement the UCF changes into the official rerelease themselves (again, few simple changes to the game's code). But that's not guaranteed - since even that might be too much for a minimalist collection. But if Nintendo doesn't implement stuff like UCF, well, a lot of Melee fans and pros might have reservations about the collection. It would depend on how the Switch's pro controller fares in Melee too - AFAIK that doesn't have the same problems as the GCN controllers have. So that problem might be mitigated by the pro controller.

OTOH, there's also the risk of Nintendo going "too far". If they decide to nerf or remove the wavedash a large portion of Melee's audience is going to complain. There are some glitches and jank the Melee community would like to see changed - beyond the fixes that UCF provide. The Invisible Ceiling is another, and Pokemon Stadium is, well:

(Although it's gotten to the point where a lot of Melee players use mods and go for Frozen Stadium - Hazardless PS. Because Pokemon Stadium was incredibly jank in Melee.)

It also raises the question of what Nintendo would change about 64 and Brawl. Would they be against 64's Double Jump Cancels? Brawl's DACUS (Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash)? Brawl's fans would not mind random tripping being removed though. 64's fans would generally not mind Hazardless / Omega / Battlefield forms (Dream Land's the only consistently legal stage in 64, Hyrule Castle's a jank-y counterpick).

Such a collection is also going up against the fact that Melee, 64 and even Brawl have been played online through emulators for a while. And Slippi only sets the bar higher since it added rollback at a time when Ultimate's own online was under severe criticism. If Nintendo wants to do such a collection with online most will compare the collection's online with emulators or even Slippi (regardless of it being a fair comparision or not). Yeah, Slippi is limited to 1-on-1s at the moment, but the Slippi team continues to work on the program, so it might see the ability to play FFAs and items at some point.

Saying this because if Nintendo omits online entirely from the collection, well, there goes a lot of the potential appeal.

Still though, I should say this: The biggest benefit to an official 64 / Melee / Brawl collection would be precisely because those games can be difficult to find nowadays. The point about the Melee scene facing increasing shortages also applies to the (smaller) 64 scene, and qute a lot of people would like to revisit Brawl's SSE and gameplay without having to get an old Wii or resort to emulation.

I do believe that a 64 / Melee / Brawl collection could be viable, but IMHO Nintendo / Bamco (assuming they develop the collection together with Sakurai) would need to be careful and learn from the mistakes with Ultimate's online. I'm not entirely sure it could be priced at $60 either (might be better as a $40 collection), but Nintendo's always done $60, and they could do that here too.

This answer's been focused around the competitive Melee scene because it's the one I'm personally most familiar with. It's also the largest of the three, with a viewerbase that rivals big time esports like CS:GO, Tekken and Street Fighter.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Part of it would depend on who Nintendo would be trying to appeal to with a collection. If its towards the more casual market who recall playing the games when they were younger, they may very view a big overall or implementation of online as not necessary to get hype from a broad fanbase.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Checked the Spanish guy’s twitter, here’s the latest tweet:

I know, maintenance usually doesn’t mean anything, but I just now noticed the time - 2 - 6 PM Pacific. So around 5-6 PM EST. I guess all we can do for now is wait and see... it’ll probably just be a functionality update to the eshop like last time with changing pre purchase to pre order

pls let ppl gift games to friends now if that’s the case

 

[Phoenixio]

I find that 35th anniversary stuff to be pretty weak, overall. 35 doesn't quite warrant anything major if you ask me, it's such a random number. And they seem to be milking it by just re-re-releasing games again. At least Sunshine and Galaxy are quite welcomed, but it's weird they didn't put Galaxy 2 in that lot, or just made a Galaxy bundle to start with.

And they could have done something about it with Smash as well, since Mario has been the starter for this franchise as well.

 

[Momotsuki]

Being a bogus leaker honestly sounds like a lot of fun. Imagine the words I could shove into Blocked Content's mouth...

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Anywho, Jin Kazama for Smash

Spoiler: Next, you are going to say.....

He is totally possible despite Heihachi returning as a Mii costume! I actually prefer him over Heihachi.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Checked the Spanish guy’s twitter, here’s the latest tweet:
View attachment 285596
I know, maintenance usually doesn’t mean anything, but I just now noticed the time - 2 - 6 PM Pacific. So around 5-6 PM EST. I guess all we can do for now is wait and see... it’ll probably just be a functionality update to the eshop like last time with changing pre purchase to pre order

pls let ppl gift games to friends now if that’s the case

Is it possible this could just be to prepare to the release of the Mario collection?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Is it possible this could just be to prepare to the release of the Mario collection?

Doubt it. The eshop has had the Mario layout since the Mario Mini last I checked and the game releases the 18th iirc

 

[SharkLord]

I agree with what you say here. But even then, let's say I try to make a new discussion about Geno. "Geno looks like he'd play a lot of fun, I really like his whole aesthetic and I think he'd be neat."

You know, I'm pretty sure someone did say something along those lines in the past, and they were met with "Geno is too close to Mega Man, he'd be boring and also too similar to Mii Gunner, just make him a Mii Costume."

At the end of the day, nothing is gonna change the fact that a solid 90% of this thread does not like Geno, or does not like talking about Geno anymore. So there's no use in bringing him up in any capacity because even positive statements regarding the character will still eventually result in the same argument.

Yeah, Geno's experiencing a bit of a Big Genoof at the moment, so to speak. I suppose it's a combination of overexposure, his status as a true darkhorse, and a thread that's become infamous for being a bit too exiteable and housing the most infamous SmashBoards user (Who honestly doesn't deserve all the attention he gets, from both sides). I dunno exactly where it all started, but I guess people are just suffering from Geno burnout, and want something new for once. And with the stagnation of the current speculation scene, I can't really blame them.

 

[CannonStreak]

Doubt it. The eshop has had the Mario layout since the Mario Mini last I checked and the game releases the 18th iirc

Wasn't it the 19th the Mario 3D Collection releases?

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Doubt it. The eshop has had the Mario layout since the Mario Mini last I checked and the game releases the 18th iirc

Well I’m talking about the actual release, not just pre-orders. You know people are gonna be downloading the game like crazy