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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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MooMew64

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A few weeks ago he posted a gif set in the Era Smash thread with the trailer opening, Kirby on a warp star, then Kirby overlooking Smithy’s castle. He claimed it was speculation then...

either it’s legit this time, or it’s insiders playing mind games with the Geno fan base as usual
Is this person even an insider? What's their track record?
 

SNEKeater

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I still think a Friday announcement for a Sakurai Presents to be aired Monday of next week is our best bet.

I think Itsuno's "Dante should be on a Nintendo console before he's eligible for Smash" comment is more of a necessary condition than a sufficient condition. It doesn't automatically get him a spot, but it does put him in the running. It's kinda like saying "Little Timmy passed his grade 10 science class, so he's going to be a doctor". Yes, doctors do need to pass grade 10 science, but just accomplishing that does not guarantee a successful career in medicine.

I think Dante's biggest issue is just that he doesn't have much to set him apart from his contemporaries. Devil May Cry sits a solid 20 million units in terms of lifetime sales, but Dante is still pretty far from being a massive icon like Sonic, Snake, or Cloud. Similarly, DMC has a decent relationship with Nintendo that's improving everyday, but he's not going to be added because of his Nintendo connection like Mega Man, Simon, or Bayonetta. While rumours of him being FP5 greatly increased his popularity for Smash, that was after the final characters were selected. Before that, Dante was decently requested for Smash, but not enough to get him in as a favourite of the core fanbase like Ridley, K. Rool, or Banjo. Dante can't even say he's the definitive option for his company, because he has to compete with Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright, and Amaterasu.

The only thing that Dante really has in a noteworthy degree is moveset potential, which is great, but not an end-all be-all. He's got a shot to be in Smash, but he too few major strengths to be considered the leading candidate that many currently see him as, IMO.
I totally agree with you with the first point. Dante having his games on Switch doesn't mean he will be in Smash, even if Itsuno words were spoken in the context of Smash.

But for the rest of your post, despite that I can see where you coming from, I don't really agree that much. As Scoliosis has mentioned, anyone is in a bad position against Sonic except for Mario, Pikachu or Pacman. Cloud and Snake are definitely below Sonic if we talk about icons, which is a word that can mean different things depending on the person. For some people, only massive character such as Mario are icons, while for others, lesser known names yet still popular such as Terry Bogard are also icons in it's own way.

Personally, and this is probably a hot take for some people: Dante is a bigger name than Snake. Hey, I adore Metal Gear Solid (my nickname is a direct reference to MGS), but I'm pretty sure few people would argue Snake is bigger than Dante if Sakurai never had added him back in Brawl.
Don't get me wrong, Snake is still a big and popular name in the gaming industry. I know talking like this can sound a bit stupid, but I just think Dante is, at least, in the same imaginary category of iconicity.

To clarify myself, Metal Gear Solid is definitely bigger than DMC, but as for the characters themselves, I feel Dante is as recognizable as Snake.

In any case, I feel you're somewhat downplaying Dante as a character. Maybe it sounds a bit lame, but he and his series could be viewed as the fathers of an entire sub-genre... in a sense, he's basically Bayonetta's ancestor.
People used this kind of legacy arguments to argue that character such as Simon or Hero deserved to be in Smash, so while maybe DMC hasn't been as influential to gaming as those series, it's still a noteworthy point that I think deserves a bit of attention even if the only reason for that is because people tend to bring those points for any of their most wanteds.
Basides that, I'd also argue that character action games during that time were pretty much defined by Devil May Cry and Dante. All the "badass yet also cheeky" thing that Dante embraces, while maybe not original to him, was and is still a part of any protagonist from almost all action games released after the first Devil May Cry games. In other words, you can't really think of crazy action games without thinking about Dante.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Don't be so sure. Remember what they did to Meta Knight in Smash?
Meta Knight was always portrayed in this way though. It's just that Kirby's artstyle is much cuter than Super Smash Bros.'s.

EDIT: And also, Kirby doesn't really have voice acting beyond Kirby himself. Everyone else is much quieter.
 
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MooMew64

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I've played very little SMRPG but even I know Geno ain't an edgelord character. Not sure where that narrative comes from.

I'd say you should throw it out regardless of credibility. Geno isn't even on the table.
As someone who doesn't really rate Geno above a 40%, I have to disagree here. His fanbase is very vocal and have the benefit of being acknowledged as a popular request from the game's own developer, so to be honest, his chances are the best they've ever been. If he's in, it's gonna be due to the fan demand he has in the core Smash fandom.
 

SKX31

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idk if y’all seen this yet but... what could this mean??
That Geno's not an edge-lord like some people seem to think he is? (I have no idea why people think that) I don't think this is a hint about him being in Smash.
I mean, his real name is a heart and a music note,

Ergo, my personal headcanon is that he's a Mozart fan.

:4pacman:

As for him being portrayed as an edgelord, (and this is coming from an outsider's perspective) isn't it partly because he's rather silent and his most famous quote is the "higher authority" bit? Doesn't take much to portray a character as an edgelord - Twilight's Edward and Jacob were both portrayed as that by some (detractors mostly) IIRC.

(And yeah, I'm doubting that this post means anything really.)
 
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Calamitas

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That wasn’t interfering with anything releasing that week though? There were no major releases that week. I keep seeing this argument and I don’t understand the logic
The point being, 3D All-Stars was announed just two weeks ago. If Nintendo was really so hell-bent on having that collection be in the spotlight, they could've put off revealing Age of Calamity for just a bit longer. Or hell, reveal it before the 35th anniversary Direct.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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As someone who doesn't really rate Geno above a 40%, I have to disagree here. His fanbase is very vocal and have the benefit of being acknowledged as a popular request from the game's own developer, so to be honest, his chances are the best they've ever been. If he's in, it's gonna be due to the fan demand he has in the core Smash fandom.
I highly doubt fan demand from a subset of the hardcore fanbase (which in itself is much smaller than the whole audiance) is going to overcome Nintendo's lack of willingness to use characters like him.

Besides, if it was him (or anyone from the Super Mario series), we would have been given a reveal date or the reveal itself.
 
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The point being, 3D All-Stars was announed just two weeks ago. If Nintendo was really so hell-bent on having that collection be in the spotlight, they could've put off revealing Age of Calamity for just a bit longer. Or hell, reveal it before the 35th anniversary Direct.
But that’s not even the argument being made here. The argument is that they wouldn’t make some huge announcement THE VERY SAME WEEK that a major game is releasing. Got it?
 
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I highly doubt fan demand from a subset of the hardcore fanbase (which in itself is much smaller than the whole audiance) is going to overcome Nintendo's lack of willingness to use characters like him.

Besides, if it was him (or anyone from the Super Mario series), we would have been given a reveal date or the reveal itself.
You mean like Banjo, a character owned by a competing company who at the end of the day they gained nothing out of other than making the fans happy?
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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You mean like Banjo, a character owned by a competing company who at the end of the day they gained nothing out of other than making the fans happy?
Microsoft and Nintendo had been working together for a while before, and Banjo & Kazooie were likely the result of wanting a Microsoft character, not of sheer fan demand.

EDIT: Also, Nintendo doesn't think the characters would ruin Super Mario's brand for whatever reason unlike with pretty much all Super Mario OCs that they didn't make.
 
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SharkLord

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I mean, his real name is a heart and a music note,

Ergo, my personal headcanon is that he's a Mozart fan.

:4pacman:

As for him being portrayed as an edgelord, (and this is coming from an outsider's perspective) isn't it partly because he's rather silent and his most famous quote is the "higher authority" bit? Doesn't take much to portray a character as an edgelord - Twilight's Edward and Jacob were both portrayed as that by some (detractors mostly) IIRC.

(And yeah, I'm doubting that this post means anything really.)
I think it's because he can turn into a gun. Most of the time, that would be pretty edgy, especially in a Mario game.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I guess part of the reason we’re so desperate is cause last year we got 4 fighters pumped out throughout the year (5 if you count Piranha Plant), TWO at E3, everything was moving smoothly.

but now it’s a lot slower, Min Min’s extra balancing time notwithstanding. Some have speculated Pass 2 has a smaller dev team, but I don’t think that’s the case - Nintendo news IN GENERAL is slow, we had to wait till March for Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition info, and so far the only games we know of on the horizon (definite release dates) are SM3DAS and Pikmin 3 Deluxe. I think COVID hit Nintendo’s schedule a lot harder than initially thought


I think it's because he can turn into a gun. Most of the time, that would be pretty edgy, especially in a Mario game.
FOR HIS NEUTRAL SPECIAL, GENO TURNS INTO A GUN
 
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MooMew64

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I highly doubt fan demand from a subset of the hardcore fanbase (which in itself is much smaller than the whole audiance) is going to overcome Nintendo's lack of willingness to use characters like him.

Besides, if it was him (or anyone from the Super Mario series), we would have been given a reveal date or the reveal itself.
Nintendo's willingness to use the character has yet to be seen. They evidently were fine with Sakurai using him as a Spirit, so it's not that they're against it.

Look, I ain't a Geno supporter, but I'm not gonna write him off. He has legitimate, valid strengths going for him that could lead to an inclusion. Do I think some are a little overstated? Sometimes, but that doesn't negate the pure, passionate fan demand he has. Geno is definitely on the table, the question is, is that the direction Nintendo decides to go? Time will tell; I personally doubt it, but that means nothing in what will actually happen.
 

metalhydra273

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Microsoft and Nintendo had been working together for a while before, and Banjo & Kazooie were likely the result of wanting a Microsoft character, not of sheer fan demand.
Uh no, if Nintendo asked Microsoft to give them a character to represent them in Smash, they wouldn't choose a character they haven't used in over a decade. Nintendo had to have gone to Microsoft and asked specifically for Banjo, which was likely due to fan request. Otherwise the Microsoft character wouldn't have likely been Banjo.
 
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Microsoft and Nintendo had been working together for a while before, and Banjo & Kazooie were likely the result of wanting a Microsoft character, not of sheer fan demand.

EDIT: Also, Nintendo doesn't think the characters would ruin Super Mario's brand for whatever reason unlike with pretty much all Super Mario OCs that they didn't make.
Are you freakin serious? If just “wanting a Microsoft character” was all they were thinking about, why didn’t we get Steve or Master Chief? Literally Nintendo, Sakurai, Rare and Phil Spencer have all acknowledged that Banjo got in because of the massive fan demand. I swear you Geno haters do more teaching and justifying than anybody
 
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Edit: Nevermind, ignore this.

To contribute to this post, this discussion is boring. Smash news would be nice.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Are we seriously arguing about Geno already?
View attachment 285588
It's early morning where I am and I just got up. I'm all for nice, healthy discussion regarding stuff Geno could bring, like the stage and the moveset, but let's not argue right now. It's too early for such debates.
Yeah you can blame me this time. I just wanted to know if a certain guy on era was leaking or just speculating/his words taken out of context. Apparently it was the latter
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I swear you Geno haters do more teaching and justifying than anybody
Don't get it twisted, I don't hate Geno. I just know that like all Super Mario characters, he has no chance at this point. And even if Super Mario characters were on the table, it'd be like, King Boo and that's it given that Nintendo's making the picks, the kind of picks they're making in regards to first parties, and their policies on characters they didn't make.

I'm all for nice, healthy discussion regarding stuff Geno could bring, like the stage and the moveset, but let's not argue right now. It's too early for such debates.
looks at clock
Oof! I gotta go. Wasn't planning on staying this long.
 

SharkLord

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Yeah you can blame me this time. I just wanted to know if a certain guy on era was leaking or just speculating/his words taken out of context. Apparently it was the latter
Given that he was the guy who did the storyboards, based on the context from last time I think he's just having fun. Perhaps we should just filed Ryce under "Speculator" for the context of Smash and leave it at that.
 

CapitaineCrash

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I don't think Banjo was add only because of fan request. Sure, fan request probably help his case, but remember that Banjo was very important for Nintendo in the N64 era.
 

CannonStreak

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Man, this arguing is getting nowhere.

Though Banjo-Kazooie are Microsoft nowadays, they were still Nintendo characters day 1. Plus, with Microsoft having other, bigger characters as other pointed out, without the fan demand, Microsoft would not even have chosen the duo for Smash. And from what I remember, Phil Spencer was interested in bringing the duo to Smash. Now if Banjo-Kazooie were with Sony, nowadays, well, RIP The Dream would have been likelier.

Yeah you can blame me this time. I just wanted to know if a certain guy on era was leaking or just speculating/his words taken out of context. Apparently it was the latter
SHAME ON YOU. No, just kidding! Who knew this would get out of hand over a post from another site?
 
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