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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SharkLord

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Someone more familiar with it would have to answer that for me. TBH, I only really started considering it after tehponycorn's essay yesterday, and I've been kind of interested in the new game so I only know a little bit. I'd really appreciate someone sharing ideas for how she'd work too.
Agreed. This is someone new to me that I though had a good chance based on popularity in Japan; I don't know too much about how she'd fight. From what I can gather, the mech would either be a stance system or a final smash.
I want Challenger Pack 7 as much as the next person, but do we actually think conversation is gonna change drastically after reveal?

I gotta be honest and say, I doubt it.
Depends on how far off CP8 is after that. The hype should last for about a month, then die down and we return to the neverending vortex of Geno, Byleth, and the Galar region. At least the Nintendo Direct might be a thing then.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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I think the only thing that would significantly shift discussion is if the next fighter broke a fan rule, ie that we did get Bomberman promoted to playable and the talk moves to who might be next. And even that would still be limited by the acknowledgement that such a promotion would likely be the only one in the pass.
 

MooMew64

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I want Challenger Pack 7 as much as the next person, but do we actually think conversation is gonna change drastically after reveal?

I gotta be honest and say, I doubt it.
It's only going to get worse depending on who it is, and especially who it potentially isn't. Things around here are eerily similar to how tense things got during the Smash Ballot days, and things ended...poorly, for lack of a better word. I hope I'm wrong, but as I said, there are things at play in the community right now that remind me of the days I spent in speculation with the Ballot.

It doesn't help a lot of people are viewing this as their character's "last chance" because of the grand crossover element Ultimate has. There's nothing wrong with being passionate for a character you want to support, but I definitely urge people here to remember all things in perspective the closer we get to the end: It is all just a video game at the end of the day. I really, really would rather not see a repeat of Smash 4's fallout.
 
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Now that we are talking about Terraria NPCs, these are my favorite NPCs.

Zoologist


Goblin Tinkerer


Mechanic
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Questions about Sakura: Her mech is ginormous and would have to be scaled down right? Wouldn't that mean you wouldn't be able to use Sakura herself because she'd be too small relative to the cast since she still has to fit inside the mech (aside from using the rule of cool in her Final Smash of course)? Would they instead make the mech abnormally huge for a character instead?

EDIT: Is this not an issue at all since there's no mechanic in which the characters get out of their mechs to begin with?
 
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MooMew64

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I do think things will improve after CP7 in the sense we'll have more to work from and have a better frame of how the rest of the pass may potentially go. If it's another 3rd party, it might indicate a pass that has more of a mix like Smash 4's did. If it's another first-party...that's where things would take an interesting turn.
 

3BitSaurus

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Yeah, and I'm sure it's a fun game, but everyone's always saying "just play Bug Fables. It's Paper Mario, but better!" And I'm like "Bug Fables is Bug Fables! I want to play Paper Mario."

To be honest, I've never played Paper Mario, or Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, so Super Paper Mario is the only good entry in the series that I've actually played. I just want to see more cool stories like that surrounding Mario and co.

EDIT: That and the characters in spin-off heck getting added to a substantial entry in the series.
Yeah, well, that's the other side of PM that can't really be replicated anywhere else. And it might be a while until that happens.

I get where you're coming from. I'd love to see Waluigi in WarioWare or Ashley in Mario Tennis or Geno in Mario Kart, but it doesn't seem like the ball is in the fans' court in that regard.

I still recommend BF though. Took me less than 30 minutes for me to enjoy the game in its own right.
 

cashregister9

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Questions about Sakura: Her mech is ginormous and would have to be scaled down right? Wouldn't that mean you wouldn't be able to use Sakura herself because she'd be too small relative to the cast since she still has to fit inside the mech (aside from using the rule of cool in her Final Smash of course)? Would they instead make the mech abnormally huge for a character instead?

EDIT: Is this not an issue at all since there's no mechanic in which the characters get out of their mechs to begin with?
Her mech would 100% have to be scaled down because of that I think the most likely scenario for a Sakura move set is; She would be outside her mech but would fight like her mech and just physically would not be inside it until she uses final smash (She has fought outside her mech in Project X Zone)
 

SKX31

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There's been talk about how various characters appeal to Japan or the US; and even talk of how Terry might have come out to appeal to various SNK fans in Latin and South America.

Has there been a potential character discussed for having appeal to Western Europe with any consensus, or is that region too diverse with its interests and/or too difficult to really get a read on?
It can be rather difficult to generalize EU for the very reason you said (many, many countries with different sociocultural identities and histories etc.). That said the EU is often counted as one region within the video game sphere due to similar video game regulations and the EU playerbase often playing each other. Generally the EU playerbase does look somewhat similar to the NA playerbase - although there are important differences:

Consoles arrived later to the scene than in the US - meaning that EU audiences are not generally as familiar with NES games as the NA / JP fanbases. In consoles' place, computers became more prominent - particularily the Amiga in the UK and Germany. Companies like Ubisoft and DICE first started out in the computing business, and the insanely-big LAN party DreamHack was born out of a friend circle playing computer games. Wolfenstein, DOOM and their successor Quake have major legacies - especially here where I live - and those helped build DreamHack's momentum. Computer games like Half-Life (and especially Counter-Strike) would add more fuel to it and the wider computer playerbase in EU.

The computer game sphere wasn't just shooters - RTSes like StarCraft / WarCraft III and Age of Empires had solid playerbases too (and some of the former would later translate to WoW and Dota / LoL), and it didn't take long until more genres got going to a lesser extent. The Sims has also consistently been a big deal amongst the more casual crowd, with the huge number of expansions being noted.

It was this environment that would later spawn Minecraft.

Still, just because computers were more prominent it didn't mean that consoles were completely left in the dust during this period. Sure, games like the FF series (up to VII) and SMRPG were not released in the region initially - but Rareware (formerly Ultimate Play the Game) made the initial move towards the Famicom / NES because they believed that the ZX Spectrum (then-dominant in the UK) didn't have much of a future. As far as consoles went, AFAIK the UK actually leaned towards SEGA during its Master System / Mega Drive (Genesis) heyday. While the SNES had a foothold in Europe, Nintendo started to streghen itself in the region during the N64 days... but you know the drill. The PlayStation Crashed (heh) the party here too (Ubisoft likewise made the shift to consoles and got going with Rayman). And the Xbox later on went on to establish itself pretty well within the EU.

Still, the initial Pokemon craze was probably the point where Nintendo had fully established itself in the region. Super Mario 64, OoT and Lylat Wars (Star Fox 64, there was just a copyright SNAFU with it and Starwing- I mean, Star Fox SNES) had already done quite a lot, but Pokemon helped solidify Nintendo's presence. Since then, EU has generally looked quite a lot like NA, with smaller variations of course based on country and console. Western EU does constitute the majority of Nintendo sales within the EU at large. I'm not sure by how much, but the UK / France / Spain / Germany are the main four countries IIRC. Other countries like Italy, Portugal, BeNeLux, the Nordics, etc. also have sizeable Nintendo (and console) fanbases.

As a small sidenote: You know how well Madden sells in the US for example? FIFA has that spot here - although the NHL games sell well in countries where hockey's popular. A significant minority of the PlayStation and Xbox sales are FIFA buyers. And a major reason why is because EA was quick and included many of the big (and even smaller) European leagues and national teams in the FIFA games. They even started including second division (and even lower) leagues and teams quickly because those teams generally have long histories and very invested fanbases too. Football is that ingrained in the general European culture. It's gotten to the point where EA often partners with local big clubs and sell limited club-themed versions of the game.

I've also heard that Layton has a significant following, and I can certainly see why: Layton is comparable to not just Sherlock, but also Franco-Belgian comics like Tintin. I haven't found anything to outright confirm the latter, but given that Satoru Iwata - back in 2009 - speculated about the reason why Layton's popular in Europe I wouldn't be too surprised. Tintin and Layton does have somewhat similar themes, such as a focus on adventure and mysteries.

Zhuge did retweet a particular snapshot of Nintendo's sales in France (back in 2019):


As far as the mobile side of things go... haven't looked into that, albeit I'd imagine that EU would be rather similar to NA there too.

Eastern EU / Russia can be somewhat of a different matter (Russia's gaming population in particular leans heavily towards the computer and free / cheap downloads, with the PlayStation being the console of choice), but that's not the topic.
 
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Professor Pumpkaboo

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im not a big fan of people telling others to play the bug version of PM just because they arent happy with what PM is now. That would be like if I said "Play Danganronpa, its AA but better" just because I didnt like Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2: Naruhodō Ryūnosuke no Kakugo.( i just picked the most recent AA game)
 
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Rie Sonomura

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It's kind of strange that people are still hung up on Monster Hunter's base game content. Even if you assume that the only base game franchises that are eligible to get a DLC character are those with only minor representation, Monster Hunter has barely anything. It has two songs, a spirit, an assist trophy doubling as a boss, a WoL dungeon, and a stage that can't normally be accessed. Compared to ARMS, which only five spirits, two Mii Costumes, and an assist trophy, that's really not a massive step up.
the music might be incriminating though, as ARMS didn't have any music in base game pre-Min Min, and all DLC characters sans Piranha Plant come with music and a stage. I do believe both MonHun songs in base were games with Rathalos in them (isn't Rathalos pretty much a mainstay/one of the "faces" of the series? like in every game thus far?)

there was also no Three Houses music specifically before Byleth, if you wanna take individual installments of a series into consideration.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Here's what I think about the current timeline going forward:
  • Due to recent events in Japan, there's at least a good chance that, out of respect, we won't get anything this week even if it was planned.
    • If we were getting a new character, it'll likely be next week at the earliest.
  • If the next character were a Super Mario character, there's a 99.9% chance it would have been in the Super Mario 35th Anniversary presentation.
    • I'm also not convinced that there are really any candidates from he series that Nintendo would realistically choose.
  • If we're going to get a new character this year, it'll most likely be in enough time before the tournament in late November/early December for the hype on it to die down slightly.
    • That would make sometime this month the most likely time for release, and sooner rather than later at that.
My money's on next week for the next fighter, and I don't think it'll be from the Super Mario series.
 

Michael the Spikester

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I still don't expect Monster Hunter or Palicos for two reasons.

1. There's already Monster Hunter content featured in the game notably Rathalos as a boss and assist. If Monster Hunter or Palicos were to be in the game, he/she or it would have been added into Base Roster.

2. Byleth already pretty much covers the whole switching weapon gimmick.

So in terms of a Capcom rep I feel its down to either Dante or Phoenix Wright.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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I still don't expect Monster Hunter or Palicos for two reasons.

1. There's already Monster Hunter content featured in the game notably Rathalos as a boss and assist. If Monster Hunter or Palicos were to be in the game, he/she or it would have been added into Base Roster.

2. Byleth already pretty much covers the whole switching weapon gimmick.

So in terms of a Capcom rep I feel its down to either Dante or Phoenix Wright.
  1. The base roster and the DLC roster aren't picked at the same time, so being passed up for the former doesn't necessarily stop you from being picked for the latter.
  2. Let the meme die. You can have multiple different executions of the same concept. Byleth and Monster Hunter would play nothing alike.
 
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Hey, Opossum has returned to speculate!

Hello there Opossum! I haven't seen you in a month.

If you see this post, what are your thoughts on the current speculation of FP7 right now? When do you think they will be released?
 
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SharkLord

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Her mech would 100% have to be scaled down because of that I think the most likely scenario for a Sakura move set is; She would be outside her mech but would fight like her mech and just physically would not be inside it until she uses final smash (She has fought outside her mech in Project X Zone)
Yeah, that's the interpretation I see the most. It's not like Smash hasn't done that before anyways, as we've seen with Captain Falcon and the Star Fox reps.
 

AceAttorney9000

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Whenever people are discussing whether or not Monster Hunter will get into Smash, I keep seeing the argument that the Monster Hunter devs weren't happy about a Hunter being playable in Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite... but I've yet to see anyone provide the source for this argument, not even once.

The closest I can think of would be Marvel vs. Capcom 3, where a Monster Hunter character was intended to be playable, but the Monster Hunter devs vetoed the idea. If anything, the fact that a Monster Hunter eventually became playable in MVCI tells me that the Monster Hunter devs are now okay with a Hunter showing up in fighting games... and even if they weren't, a little reminder that Sakurai was able to get four different Dragon Quest heroes playable in the same game, something that was previously considered unthinkable. I doubt he'd have as much trouble convincing the Monster Hunter devs to allow a Hunter into Smash.
 

Diddy Kong

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At this point, I just wanna know if Nintendo is gonna release more games to keep the Switch interesting. So far, only BotW2 has my interest in what's confirmed to be coming. Can't even decide about Prime 4 cause there hasn't been shown anything yet.

It's getting dull. The Mario remakes might make me buy one, or two, but not too sure yet. I wanna know if the Switch is gonna deliver or not.

Honestly, I know Smash already. The next batch of fighters aren't gonna make me stick with this system as much as upcoming titles. I just need to know what's up already.
 

SharkLord

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Whenever people are discussing whether or not Monster Hunter will get into Smash, I keep seeing the argument that the Monster Hunter devs weren't happy about a Hunter being playable in Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite... but I've yet to see anyone provide the source for this argument, not even once.

The closest I can think of would be Marvel vs. Capcom 3, where a Monster Hunter character was intended to be playable, but the Monster Hunter devs vetoed the idea. If anything, the fact that a Monster Hunter eventually became playable in MVCI tells me that the Monster Hunter devs are now okay with a Hunter showing up in fighting games... and even if they weren't, a little reminder that Sakurai was able to get four different Dragon Quest heroes playable in the same game, something that was previously considered unthinkable. I doubt he'd have as much trouble convincing the Monster Hunter devs to allow a Hunter into Smash.
I mean, we just debunked that point a couple pages back anyways, so...
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Yeah, that's the interpretation I see the most. It's not like Smash hasn't done that before anyways, as we've seen with Captain Falcon and the Star Fox reps.
To be fair though, you can't reasonably expect the Blue Falcon or the Arwing to work in the context of a fighting game, whereas Sakura's mech would fit in just fine when at the same scale as the other fighters. I could easily see them doing the opposite: You play as the mech and only see Sakura during her Final Smash.
 

KillerCage

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What's with all the Bug Fables bashing in here? I really liked it. It does take inspiration from Paper Mario but it builds and improves on the formula with its own charm and stands out on its own. Can't believe it got compared to Mighty No. 9 earlier.
Yeaaah... While I do have some criticisms with the game {COUGH platforming COUGH}, Bug Fables excels in its RPG mechanics, storytelling, and difficulty.
Plus the soundtrack has some great bangers.




 

SharkLord

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To be fair though, you can't reasonably expect the Blue Falcon or the Arwing to work in the context of a fighting game, whereas Sakura's mech would fit in just fine when at the same scale as the other fighters. I could easily see them doing the opposite: You play as the mech and only see Sakura during her Final Smash.
Yeah, it would at least translate a bit better. Ideally, it would be like Brawl Fox, where you switch to the mech for her Final Smash. Unfortunately, transformational final smashes are gone, so...
 

Rie Sonomura

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SKX31 SKX31 may find this interesting:
 

Rie Sonomura

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Yeah, it would at least translate a bit better. Ideally, it would be like Brawl Fox, where you switch to the mech for her Final Smash. Unfortunately, transformational final smashes are gone, so...
Transformation ones are gone, but you could just cutscene it a la Falcon’s or the Belmonts’, or do like how Little Mac or DK do
 

Arcanir

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the music might be incriminating though, as ARMS didn't have any music in base game pre-Min Min, and all DLC characters sans Piranha Plant come with music and a stage. I do believe both MonHun songs in base were games with Rathalos in them (isn't Rathalos pretty much a mainstay/one of the "faces" of the series? like in every game thus far?)

there was also no Three Houses music specifically before Byleth, if you wanna take individual installments of a series into consideration.
I doubt the music means much. A playable ARMs rep was not considered at the time the base game was being made and completely missed the first round of DLC as well, so the content ARMs initially had was probably meant to be the content they were going to be left with. The lack of music probably had no bearing as Min Min getting in happened after the fact as they went back and reconsidered.

Plus, like ARMS Monster Hunter still has much to offer to Smash that isn't present in the game. Even in terms of music those two songs are just a drop in the bucket that is its large library of very popular and beloved tracks. Fans would love to hear things like Zinogre's or Brachydios' themes for instance, and there's plenty more like them that could be grabbed. Expanding on it would be very easy if they wanted to go and get a Hunter (or Palico) for it.

2. Byleth already pretty much covers the whole switching weapon gimmick.
Even ignoring the fact that the Monster Hunter is not bound to a weapon switching gimmick, they have 10 other weapons that Byleth can't use including their most iconic weapon the Great Sword. Saying that they can't be in because they may have a similar concept shows a lack of understanding of what both characters bring to the table and how much you can do with the concept.
 
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I do think things will improve after CP7 in the sense we'll have more to work from and have a better frame of how the rest of the pass may potentially go. If it's another 3rd party, it might indicate a pass that has more of a mix like Smash 4's did. If it's another first-party...that's where things would take an interesting turn.
Exponential dread hits if CP7 is yet another 1st Party character and people start theorizing Vol 2 is an all 1st Party Pass. At least if CP7 happens to be a 3rd Party Character we can theorize how evened out both parties might be for the rest of DLC.
 

Cosmic77

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A game already having music in Ultimate may or may not matter in the long run. A lot of people are pointing out that none of the DLC characters so far have had their music in Smash prior to their addition, but let's look at who we're talking about. We have four third-parties who probably weren't getting any music without their presence on the roster, a character from a game who couldn't possibly have had his music in Ultimate at launch when said game wouldn't release until six months later, and Min Min. ARMS is the only case where it doesn't make sense why it wouldn't have had any music, but considering how it had an AT, five Spirits, and two Mii Costumes at launch, I think it's clear that there was a point in time when ARMS wasn't gonna be represented on the roster.

Yeah, they'll have to work around XC2 and MH's existing music, but I don't think the music alone kills their chances.
 
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7NATOR

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what if our next reveal is a dual one - FP7 and FP8 in one fell swoop, FP7 is third party (but not a "big deal" like Crash, Dante or Master Chief; I'm talking more "dark horses" like Arle or Neku) and FP8 is first party?

what will be the consensus then?
At the same time?

The first thought would be that FP2 is really on a budget, if they can't allocate 2 separate trailers for 2 separate characters

Otherwise i guess it really depends on the character. Maybe Geno and Waluigi being in the same pass was legit, between them being both mario characters. Maybe it's Shantae and Dixie Kong due to both of them using their hair heavily. Maybe it's a Trailer based on Assists breaking out. I only think they would do something like this if the characters have heavy relations to each other. I don't think they would do it randomly
 

Rie Sonomura

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At the same time?

The first thought would be that FP2 is really on a budget, if they can't allocate 2 separate trailers for 2 separate characters

Otherwise i guess it really depends on the character. Maybe Geno and Waluigi being in the same pass was legit, between them being both mario characters. Maybe it's Shantae and Dixie Kong due to both of them using their hair heavily. Maybe it's a Trailer based on Assists breaking out. I only think they would do something like this if the characters have heavy relations to each other. I don't think they would do it randomly
I didn’t say two in one trailer. I just said two reveals. Probably separate trailers like with Hero and Banjo
 

Shroob

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I want Challenger Pack 7 as much as the next person, but do we actually think conversation is gonna change drastically after reveal?

I gotta be honest and say, I doubt it.
In the long term? Nah, not at all, unless it's a pick that shakes everyone to their core as everyone previously found them extremely unlikely/never considered at all, and knowing this community, we'd find ways to inflate their importance and make them seem obvious in hindsight.



In the short term though? Honestly, maybe I say this from a point of emotion more than logic, but, yeah.


I think we're all going through hell this year, and this community wasn't exempt from 2020's insanity, what with a handful of competitive players/content creators being outed as awful people.


I feel like, even if CP7 doesn't shake things up, if anything, it'll give us something to talk about, to enjoy, and just take our mind off the **** that's been going on lately, if only for a little while.



The ****ed up thing is, Min Min was only released 3 months ago, which puts us on schedule like FP1 was if we get a character this month, but, my god, its felt longer due to her being teased all the way back in March. I pretty much checked out of speculation between March-June, simply because there was just no reason to. Everyone had already decided not even 2 weeks in it was going to be Spring Man or Min Min, and with nothing else to really talk about until she came out, and no good/credible leaks to sink my teeth into, let's just say it was a long three months, and this gap will feel the same if there's radio silence all month on Sakurai's end.
 

Cosmic77

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So this is an interesting thread in Resetera: https://www.resetera.com/threads/hi...ed-by-at-least-5-months.281531/#post-44529692

tl;dr the Mario announcements were delayed by at least 5 months. If Mario is getting screwed this badly, I have to imagine Smash is even worse. I imagine Min Min was probably slated to release in March, and FP7 on June.
I doubt Min Min was ever slated for March.

Actually, by the time COVID was declared to be a national pandemic and restrictions began to take effect, Min Min would've already been close to completion. Given the deadline of December 2021 that was set long before the pandemic, I'd say they're not that far behind their intended schedule. Five more characters across a year and four months.
 
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