Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There would also be the problem of the player being able to use real guns on kids, which will not go over well with the American media due to the heavy problem of school shootings in the US. The only way to fix this problem would be to patch out all the child characters from the American version of the game, which I don't think that they would do.

Also I don't think people would take issue unless there was a normal school stage and you could shoot people in the background. Then again I may just be underestimating the internet's ability to work itself into a frenzy.

 

[RileyXY1]

Another problem (a real one, this time) would be the potential outcry from RE and Doom fans if the gory content was removed. They might think that they've butchered the characters and did not represent them properly. Especially for Doom, where the gore and brutal killing is much more prominent, especially in the 2016 reboot.

 

[Megadoomer]

The question here is simple: can RE and Doom be represented without the gory content? The answer: I don't know, the gory content is much too iconic to Doom and removing it could be seen as a disgrace by Doom fans. Not so much for RE. The only things graphic over there are the enemy designs and the general look of the game.

Doomguy is in Quake Champions, which minimizes the blood and outright removes the gore, and I don't recall people having a problem with that.

As for Resident Evil, a character like Nemesis made it into Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, a T-rated game, so I can't think there would be any issues. I haven't played many of the Resident Evil games, but the most grotesque boss that I can think of in terms of design is William Birkin, who wouldn't look out of place in something like Castlevania or Soul Calibur.

 

[Nquoid]

Genuinely tempted to do a deep dive on the ratings around the world of mainline entries of Resident Evil, Doom, Bayonetta, Persona and Metal Gear Solid....

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As for Resident Evil, a character like Nemesis made it into Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, a T-rated game, so I can't think there would be any issues. I haven't played many of the Resident Evil games, but the most grotesque boss that I can think of in terms of design is William Birkin, who wouldn't look out of place in something like Castlevania or Soul Calibur.

I think Nemesis's only T-rated thing is his level 3 super. It's really gross and slimy.

I wouldn't be surprised if they used the mansion from the first game. From what I've seen it's got a little more than just a zombie problem to keep players on edge.

 

[RileyXY1]

Doomguy is in Quake Champions, which minimizes the blood and outright removes the gore, and I don't recall people having a problem with that.

As for Resident Evil, a character like Nemesis made it into Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, a T-rated game, so I can't think there would be any issues. I haven't played many of the Resident Evil games, but the most grotesque boss that I can think of in terms of design is William Birkin, who wouldn't look out of place in something like Castlevania or Soul Calibur.

However, Ultimate is rated E10, rather than T, which would outright make them even more censored.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Another problem (a real one, this time) would be the potential outcry from RE and Doom fans if the gory content was removed. They might think that they've butchered the characters and did not represent them properly. Especially for Doom, where the gore and brutal killing is much more prominent, especially in the 2016 reboot.

Frankly, I haven't seen any big backlash from fans of Metal Gear, Bayonetta and Persona regarding presentation.

If anything, M-rated games are an important face of video games, especially given that the age of the average player went up in the last two decades.

Not having these iconic games and franchises represented in "the biggest gaming crossover of all time" would be a bigger disservice, I think.

 

[tenworldsguy]

...the most grotesque boss that I can think of in terms of design is William Birkin, who wouldn't look out of place in something like Castlevania or Soul Calibur.

A good point. Castlevania has some really nasty and disgusting bosses, especially the Metroidvania ones. I'll post a few as examples.

Spoiler: some nasty castlevania bosses...

There's several I outright don't want to post because they're flat out more horrible than these (look up Beezelbub if you want to have nightmares...)
Smash's reaction was mostly to omit them from existence, because they're just bosses and not major playable characters.
Heck, I do feel that a lot of "too violent" or "too creepy" arguments fell apart once they added the Belmonts. But on a flip note, something like DOOM or RE might be significantly further on the spectrum of violence/horror: Castlevania is just simply very gothic (you could remove the blood and horror elements and still get a reasonable, similar game), whereas Doom and Resident Evil are built upon violence and horror, respectively.

Am I against either? Not at all. But we should consider that maybe the intensity of one of the mentioned aspects may be a detracting point to Sakuri? Prolly I bet
Either way, they're probably the best representatives of their respective genres that we could get in Smash. Other shooters are either too over the top (even compared to DOOM) or too generic (COD, Battlefield) to have notable tracks and characters, and similarly other horror games are far more "horror" than RE (at least Leon is just a human- imagine some kid looking at the DLC to come and Pyramid Head comes straight from their nightmares).

 

[Door Key Pig]

On a separate note, I want to talk about a few characters I see brought up a lot that I quite honestly don't see getting in. As much as I hate to say this since he is my most wanted character, I highly doubt Crash Bandicoot is gonna make it in. Activision is a stingy company and I doubt they'll work with Nintendo to that extent because all they care about is money and nothing else. I really wish I was wrong though, but its the hard truth. Also, Scorpion will most certainly not make it in since Mortal Kombat games are banned in Japan and are by law not allowed to release their, so yeah good luck trying to get Scorpion in Smash.

But thats just my opinion

(hilariously non-functioning image of Bowser and Donkey Kong in Skylanders)
And IDK, is Konami much better in that regard of "only caring about money" or

 

[Deleted member]

Feel the whole violence/grotesque aspect is overblown, Bayonetta is one of the most gory action games out there with a lot of finishers being based on medieval torture devices that obviously didn't make into Smash and she still looks and feels like in her game.

RE and Doom are long-standing franchises and can borrow elements from across their series that are less grotesque/violent if they need to.

While I see the Dragonborn more likely, Doom 1 and 2 are significantly tame nowadays when compared to many other titles. You can pretty much remove the blood and the enemies can end up looking really silly.

RE main while having some grotesque enemies, they also have some campy ones as well like Hunters since the first game.

Spoiler

Plus zombies can be toned down significantly.

I believe there's nothing wrong in not liking these characters, but at the same time looking for reasons to disqualify them now when we have Mature content that is displayed without issue is counterintuitive as it can still happen.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Feel the whole violence/grotesque aspect is overblown, Bayonetta is one of the most gory action games out there with a lot of finishers being based on medieval torture devices that obviously didn't make into Smash and she still looks and feels like in her game.

B-But ryumo...Its in a stylish, flashy and fashion way...

 

[GoodGrief741]

Another problem (a real one, this time) would be the potential outcry from RE and Doom fans if the gory content was removed. They might think that they've butchered the characters and did not represent them properly. Especially for Doom, where the gore and brutal killing is much more prominent, especially in the 2016 reboot.

I don't think that would happen. Gore is only a big part in a single game (soon to be 2). There's 4 other games that don't have that and Sakurai is known to take from older games most of the time.

As for RE, there's really nothing gory that could affect playable characters unless they go the MvC2 route and have a character throwing zombies. And I don't think people would care if some random zombos in the background got toned down.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

The idea that a Resident Evil character absolutely needs gore to be properly represented completely misses the point of why people want those characters in Smash in the first place. Sure, the horror elements are obviously an integral part of the series, but that's not why so many people love the characters. Jill and Leon are some of the biggest icons in gaming history because they're really cool and likable characters. Anyone who's played through Resident Evil 4 can tell you that Leon is anything but bland. I'm sure more people care about the prospect of Jill or Leon fighting against video game icons such as Mario and Link rather than how much they'd be toned down. I've yet to see a single person complain about Snake or Bayonetta being too neutered compared to their home games because more people care about the characters themselves rather than the contents of their game. And if we're going to be using the logic that RE characters absolutely need gore to be properly represented, then Joker should be violently ripping his face off every time he summons Arsene. I also don't think zombies are that big of a deal either, since they could easily be toned down for Smash. Most zombies in family friendly media tend to leave out the gore, so it isn't too hard to believe that Smash wouldn't be able to do that either. It'd really be no worse than something like Gravity Falls or Billy and Mandy, just with more realistic proportions given the source material. And if zombies do prove to be that much of a problem, just use something like Mr. X or the villagers from RE4 as a stage hazard, neither of which are all that gory or grotesque compared to anything else in the game.

Also, the argument that a Resident Evil character would just be a "boring policeman" without the gore reeks of the same "anime swordfighter" arguments people used against Hero before he was revealed. The characters have their own personalities and they have way more at their disposal than just a knife and handgun. If guns and grenades are on the table, then just about any RE weapon such as rocket launchers or shotguns should be fine. I imagine they'd have some kind of resource management system that'd be true to their home games. There's plenty of ways to make an RE character stick out that don't involve zombie gore.

 

[Predictabo]

RE playable characters aren't gory, the enemies are, if you tone down the enemies they can easily fit in a lower rating.

 

[Dangthatwasmyapendix]

Seriously, the idea that ANY fan of Resident Evil, wouldn't want a RE character in Smash unless they were covered in zombie guts is ridiculous.

If the choices are "be toned down" or "don't be in the game", no fan of the series is going to choose the latter.

I'm sure fans wouldn't mind but I find it weird you mention that as that wasn't my point, my point is that if you tone down the elements that wouldn't be allowed in Smash there's not much interesting stuff left.

Except for the part where Chris and Jill already appeared in MvC3 without having anything that would have kept them out of Smash.

If CAPCOM doesn't think the characters don't work without gory content, then why the hell would Nintendo?

Because Marvel Versus Capcom is a different game to Smash, it's a more traditional fighting game so less unique moves are needed, how interesting would Leon's recovery be for example? (also that game's rated T whereas Smash is E10+)

that's not why so many people love the characters. Jill and Leon are some of the biggest icons in gaming history because they're really cool and likable characters. Anyone who's played through Resident Evil 4 can tell you that Leon is anything but bland.

He definitely isn't bland, as a character but the problem here is that can only be translated to Smash so much, the point I'm making is that his design and weaponry are bland and those would be what's on display most of the time.

It seems a lot of people are misunderstanding my argument the problems not that the games can be gory the problem is if you take away that there's not much moveset potential left. Once again the problem's not that the franchise has Gore in it the problem is if you remove it what have you got left, for example how would the character trailer go if you can't use Zombies?

 

[Deleted member]

Well 1 thing I'm not going to look forward to after the 5th Fighter reveal is if franchises like RE or DOOM aren't in the Fighter Pass at all and people start saying it validates the idea they're too violent for Smash.

Anyways, what's the likelihood that Smash will have something to show or announce at Evo tomorrow? With Hero and 4.0.0 coming out a couple of days before, a lot of people probably don't expect any sort of announcement for Smash happening, so expectations are certainly at the lowest of lows.

 

[StormC]

He definitely isn't bland, as a character but the problem here is that can only be translated to Smash so much, the point I'm making is that his design and weaponry are bland and those would be what's on display most of the time.

It seems a lot of people are misunderstanding my argument the problems not that the games can be gory the problem is if you take away that there's not much moveset potential left. Once again the problem's not that the franchise has Gore in it the problem is if you remove it what have you got left, for example how would the character trailer go if you can't use Zombies?

If there are Fire Emblem characters that are just guys with swords, I think a RE character, especially characters as famous as Jill or Leon, are fine.

An RE character that focuses on resource management would certainly stand out. Not like we have a ton of military-type characters in Smash.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Well 1 thing I'm not going to look forward to after the 5th Fighter reveal is if franchises like RE or DOOM aren't in the Fighter Pass at all and people start saying it validates the idea they're too violent for Smash.

Anyways, what's the likelihood that Smash will have something to show or announce at Evo tomorrow? With Hero and 4.0.0 coming out a couple of days before, a lot of people probably don't expect any sort of announcement for Smash happening, so expectations are certainly at the lowest of lows.

On the opposite end, I'm looking forward to adding these characters to my signature if they get in.

I don't think Nintendo would announce anything at EVO - the closest we ever got was an announcement of a Direct. But the whispers for content reveals in other games seem to be proving right. Let's hope the same happens with Smash. Just don't hold your breath for it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm sure fans wouldn't mind but I find it weird you mention that as that wasn't my point, my point is that if you tone down the elements that wouldn't be allowed in Smash there's not much interesting stuff left.

How many RE games have you played? From these comments, I'm guessing somewhere between 'none' and 'not many'.

 

[ze9]

I don't know about Jill, but Leon could easily have a moveset strictly based on his appearance in RE4.
There's plenty to work with: he does suplexes, he's got a knife, a grappling hook, different kind of grenades (explosive, fire and flash ones, his grenades in particular would translate to Smash really well without resembling Snake's), medical herbs, a rocket launcher, a shotgun, a mine thrower, an UZI, a precision rifle... and he also throws eggs.
Sure, we've already seen some of those things in Smash, but you put it all under a survival horror theme and in Leon's character and it could come together in a pretty unique way. We haven't seen anything like UZIs or precision rifles for example, and in RE4 you used those things in very different situations that could translate well to Smash. The UZI would be a "get off of me" move, and the precision rifle would be good for something like edgeguarding. He could also have a limited projectiles mechanic.
And El Pueblo would also be my choice for a RE stage. Maybe RE1's zombies are too much for Smash, but the ganados and the lake monster from RE4 aren't really more excessive than some of the Castlevania stuff that already got in, so...

Leon would also be the only fighter with a leather jacket and I think just that's enough to want him in.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

I could see an RE character that is comprised of Jill, Leon, Chris and Claire. Yeah, Leon & Chris obviously have different builds than Jill & Claire, but I could see Sakurai going through the extra mile for such an iconic series. As for moves, there should be no issues with Jill doing Leons RE4 melee attacks or Leon doing Chris' famous boulder hook, since Simon Belmont can already perform moves coined by Richter Belmont, so they can easily pool together moves from every character.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Another problem (a real one, this time) would be the potential outcry from RE and Doom fans if the gory content was removed. They might think that they've butchered the characters and did not represent them properly.

Nobody would think that.

No RE or Doom fan would rather their character not get into Smash than get in without the gore.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It seems a lot of people are misunderstanding my argument the problems not that the games can be gory the problem is if you take away that there's not much moveset potential left. Once again the problem's not that the franchise has Gore in it the problem is if you remove it what have you got left, for example how would the character trailer go if you can't use Zombies?

I don't think any of the characters would even have creepy or gory attacks regardless of the game's age rating. I suppose there could be if Wesker or Nemesis were added but most people seem to be gunning for the protagonists so I don't think that will be an issue.

The trailer could use the Dharkon puppet fighters again if they wanted. They're zombie like.

Switching gears a bit, if we did get Leon or what have you what music do you think we'd get? I'm good with anything other then the fart trumpets from that remake (I think it was the RE2 basement theme remix). I'd love to see Nemesis's theme from MvCI but I don't know if it exists in the main series so...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think we're all looking in the wrong place. The ESRB isn't the concern, it's CERO.

It was their newer, tighter restrictions that Got Palutena's dress redesigned and Tharja removed as a Trophy.
I also suspect it was behind Mythra's new look and Camilla putting a freaking top on for once.

 

[Vrbtm]

Yet people clamors for Scorpion. NottooviolentamIriteorwut?

No, Mortal Kombat is too violent too. People clamor for a lot of bad characters.

If the choices are "be toned down" or "don't be in the game", no fan of the series is going to choose the latter.

I am.

No RE or Doom fan would rather their character not get into Smash than get in without the gore.

I would.

 

[Us3inMN]

As a supporter for Doomguy, I'm perfectly fine with them removing gore. You can still keep his awesome moves, but take out the "glory kills" and all the blood. Using classic designs for the enemies would work as spirits. If you're wondering about the chainsaw element, all swords in the game don't actually cut. Why should his chainsaw?

Leon would be cool too. There are plenty of non-violent characters in the game for spirits as well, and getting rid of gore in a game that does not use gore as a staple would be okay.

Scorpion still seems easy as well. He's from a fighting game. Take out blood and fatalities. Link already has a hookshot that would realistically stab into enemies, but we don't see that in Smash. Even though gore is a staple, it can be overlooked easily by fans of Scorpion in Smash.

 

[Megadoomer]

I am.

You don't seem to be a fan of Resident Evil, Doom, or seemingly any M-rated titles, which (if you read the full post) was what DarthEnderX was referring to.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

On the whole talk of violence.

Remember that Injustice managed to make Scorpion, Sub-Zero and Raiden work in Injustice. They surely could do the same with the former, Doom Guy and an RE rep in Smash.

Also Resident Evil in the Marvel vs. Capcom games. Do people keep forgetting about that?

 

[Vrbtm]

You don't seem to be a fan of Resident Evil, Doom, or seemingly any M-rated titles, which (if you read the full post) was what DarthEnderX was referring to.

You think that just because I don't want them represented in Smash? You're mistaken.

Remember that Injustice managed to make Scorpion, Sub-Zero and Raiden work in Injustice. They surely could do the same with the former, Doom Guy and an RE rep in Smash.

You people can keep making this point over and over, but it doesn't make these violent characters any more likely.

Sakurai and his design team have proven themselves to be very detail-oriented people, and they've gone to great lengths to make a great deal of this game's newcomers play, look, and feel exactly as they should. If they cannot design a newcomer faithfully for whatever reason, they won't do it.

Just because they can do it with three doesn't mean they can do it with everyone. Or would.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I am.

You're acting like removing a tiny aspect would reduce a character to a shell of its former self. Literally all of these characters are being shoved into a new genre of gaming, and as such sacrifices have to be made. Mario doesn't have a huge focus on power ups because he needs to be easy to understand. Sonic can't go nearly as fast as he does in his own games because it would be unwieldy. Mega Man doesn't have to worry about weapon energy because that would be way too much to keep track of. The list goes on.

What matters is that the game captures what makes a character special. Mario's aerial attacks are pretty good, and can be used in ladder combos because he's the jump man. Sonic is the fastest character in the game and excels at hit and run tactics just like what's required in his boss fights. Mega Man does what he always does; jumping and shooting his way to victory.

You think that just because I don't want them represented in Smash? You're mistaken.

No. It's because you've done nothing but badmouth characters ever since you came here.

 

[Vrbtm]

Mario doesn't have a huge focus on power ups

He kinda does, though. Several Mario power-ups are featured as items in the game, which is the best way to implement them. He can also throw fireballs and grow huge for one of his taunts (I know this taunt was removed in Ultimate), and he still has F.L.U.D.D. if he counts.

Sonic can't go nearly as fast as he does in his own games because it would be unwieldy

He still has the highest base running speed in the game, though, which is good enough.

Mega Man doesn't have to worry about weapon energy because that would be way too much to keep track of.

That also just wouldn't be fun.

What matters is that the game captures what makes a character special.

Obviously.

What makes Doom Slayer special is gore and violence. Otherwise, he's just a generic marine with guns with nothing interesting to offer.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I am.

I would.

You're not. You don't actually care about those characters getting into Smash.

What makes Doom Slayer special is gore and violence.

Further proof that you're no actual fan of the Doom series.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He kinda does, though. Several Mario power-ups are featured as items in the game, which is the best way to implement them. He can also throw fireballs and grow huge for one of his taunts (I know this taunt was removed in Ultimate), and he still has F.L.U.D.D. if he counts.

There are so many Mario power ups though, and Mario only uses two of them with the Fire Flower and the Cape Feather. Also, the traditional power ups from the 2D Mario series also serve to give Mario an extra hit. A really cool way to represent this would be to allow Mario to select a power up that would augment his moveset and make him harder to launch, but went away if he got hit too much or too hard. Another big aspect of Mario games are the traversal mechanics. They could give Mario things like the long jump, sideways jump or triple jump. However, such complexities are too much for what's supposed to be a beginner character.

As a side note, F.L.U.D.D. isn't a traditional power up, though its inclusion does strengthen Mario's ties to the source material for the 3D games.

What makes Doom Slayer special is gore and violence. Otherwise, he's just a generic marine with guns with nothing interesting to offer.

From what other people say about the Doom series it seems to be more about being the lone wolf against the (under)world. When the demons come calling you don't back down you run right up to them and punch them in the face. Even how the game displays health reinforces this by saying that it's lower than it really is in order to get you into a rhythm of shooting bad guys and punching them in the face. This style of play could carry over into Super Smash Bros. by making him act more of a rush down character, oppressing the opponent with gunfire then charging in for powerful grabs and smash attacks.

EDIT: I should mention that the gore seems to be more for realism and atmospheric purposes. Everything bleeds and the demons need to be as inhuman and threatening as possible. You really don't want anyone sympathizing with them despite their humanoid forms.

 

[Us3inMN]

He kinda does, though. Several Mario power-ups are featured as items in the game, which is the best way to implement them. He can also throw fireballs and grow huge for one of his taunts (I know this taunt was removed in Ultimate), and he still has F.L.U.D.D. if he counts.

He still has the highest base running speed in the game, though, which is good enough.

That also just wouldn't be fun.

Obviously.

What makes Doom Slayer special is gore and violence. Otherwise, he's just a generic marine with guns with nothing interesting to offer.

What makes DoomGUY special is his mark on FPS and video game history. His games are based on gore and hardcore violence.

Doomguy is another iconic video game character. He is known for being bada** and having a bunch of guns at his disposal. All of those guns would make for some great moves and a final smash that would crush other players. He's interesting due to his legacy and his focus around more violent nature, being the lone wolf/David against the world/Goliath. He could still do kicking and close up shotgun moves and chainsaws and everything without there being a need for blood/gore.

His stage could just be called Mars Base, having swap between the actual base on Mars and Hell (like Castle Siege). There's enough awesome music to fill that void, and we could have a Doom Slayer alt costume.

Mii costumes could be made from his armor throughout his games and the spirits could be his guns and the enemies (the enemies being their pixel designs).

 

[GoodGrief741]

You think that just because I don't want them represented in Smash? You're mistaken.

You have literally stated that you are not a fan of those characters.

 

[Vrbtm]

You have literally stated that you are not a fan of those characters.

Characters are franchises now?

Mario only uses two

Two is enough.

You're not. You don't actually care about those characters getting into Smash.

I care insofar as I'll consider selling my copy if they get in.

Further proof that you're no actual fan of the Doom series.

Except that's not proof at all.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Characters are franchises now?

Two is enough.


I care insofar as I'll consider selling my copy if they get in.

Except that's not proof at all.

You've stated that you're not a fan of those franchises either. The fact that you chose to nitpick that says a lot about the strength of your arguments.

 

[Mastermiine]

I'm trying to think what characters/leaks are still "alive" up until this point in time?

Undertake/Waluigi - a mod on the papagenos discord correctly predicted the Nintendo direct. Also, I believe papageno said some one messaged him about amiibos being in development. Joker, The Luminary, Banjo, (I forgot the 4th), and Waluigi.
However, this could be another Loz18 situation.

Monster Hunter/Doomslayer - Leaker correctly predicted "Hero" and alts in December. However, a person claiming to be the leaker said it was fake. Multiple possibilities could be here. Alleged leaker isn't leaker. And Leaker is actually leaker and could cover their ass for C&D letter from Nintendo. .

Starling leak - could be Geno or something else entirely.

I remember seeing an three houses character leak, but I don't remember that one.

TLDR:
Undertake
Waluigi
Monster Hunter
Doomslayer
Geno
Three Houses are all currently alive leaked characters

 

[Vrbtm]

You've stated that you're not a fan of those franchises either.

You're wrong.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Let's be fair; you can be a fan of a franchise or a character, but not a fan of them being in specific crossovers. Everybody is different in how they like or dislike things. Let's not generalize fans.

Let's also move on, since this is going into circles.