Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Every time I see someone say Doomguy wouldn’t fit well thematically in Smash, or that they would be poorly represented I just think of this.

 

[Vrbtm]

Every time I see someone say Doomguy wouldn’t fit well thematically in Smash, or that they would be poorly represented I just think of this.

This is a case where the mismatch is SO jarring and absurd that it becomes funny in a surreal way, so it works in a weird way.

It wouldn't work like that in Smash. It would be a little jarring, but it wouldn't be THAT jarring. Not jarring enough to be acceptable or funny.

 

[N3ON]

This is a case where the mismatch is SO jarring and absurd that it becomes funny in a surreal way, so it works in a weird way.

It wouldn't work like that in Smash. It would be a little jarring, but it wouldn't be THAT jarring. Not jarring enough to be acceptable or funny.

To you.

Doom Slayer on a Nintendogs stage fighting Kirby and Villager might qualify as funny in a surreal way to some.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

This is a case where the mismatch is SO jarring and absurd that it becomes funny in a surreal way, so it works in a weird way.

It wouldn't work like that in Smash. It would be a little jarring, but it wouldn't be THAT jarring. Not jarring enough to be acceptable or funny.

Doomguy and Jigglypuff would be on the same screen. Officially.

 

[Vrbtm]

Doomguy and Jigglypuff would be on the same screen. Officially.

Snake's presence in the game since Brawl has kinda worn off the effect, I think. I haven't felt the "Wow, I can't believe these characters are on the same screen!" feeling in a long time because of him.

 

[Nquoid]

I'm actually intrigued from this conversations whether many people have 'absolutely no' characters. I know I was waiting to see whether the Fighters Pass would include characters from franchises I loved before buying, but even in that case, I would have just bought who I wanted rather than getting the whole pass.

But do many people have characters that would actually seriously impact their enjoyment of the game if they were added?

 

[Wunderwaft]

Why are we still arguing over violence prohibiting characters from Smash when Bayonetta is actually in the game?
It's quite clear that neither Sakurai or Nintendo treat characters from an M rated game as an obstacle for a Smash entry.

 

[Vrbtm]

But do many people have characters that would actually seriously impact their enjoyment of the game if they were added?

Many do, most don't. Personally, I generally don't like when something I love endorses something that I hate.

 

[Nquoid]

Many do, most don't. Personally, I generally don't like when something I love endorses something that I hate.

What is you hate that's being endorsed? Violence in general? The specific franchises? The characters? Or a proliferation of non-Nintendo characters?

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I'm actually intrigued from this conversations whether many people have 'absolutely no' characters. I know I was waiting to see whether the Fighters Pass would include characters from franchises I loved before buying, but even in that case, I would have just bought who I wanted rather than getting the whole pass.

But do many people have characters that would actually seriously impact their enjoyment of the game if they were added?

Outside of extreme cases where the game the character comes from utilizes real gambling mechanics or pushes some kind of harmful ideology, I personally don't. I can't think of very many likely candidates that fall into either category, so I think we're good for now. I'm pretty sure the general public doesn't care that much either and the people overreacting to certain innocuous characters are just a vocal minority.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm actually intrigued from this conversations whether many people have 'absolutely no' characters. I know I was waiting to see whether the Fighters Pass would include characters from franchises I loved before buying, but even in that case, I would have just bought who I wanted rather than getting the whole pass.

But do many people have characters that would actually seriously impact their enjoyment of the game if they were added?

I personally like Super Smash Bros. enough to be happy playing as any of the new DLC characters just to see how they would play, but there are a few characters that would make me happy just with who they are. The biggest one for me would be Amaterasu, but beyond that i would like to see Chibi-Robo, Amy (from ZanZarah: The Hidden Portal), Boy & Blob (from A Boy and his Blob), and Proto Man as an echo fighter.

Why are we still arguing over violence prohibiting characters from Smash when Bayonetta is actually in the game?
It's quite clear that neither Sakurai or Nintendo treat characters from an M rated game as an obstacle for a Smash entry.

Mostly because Vrbtm is back, though we are supposed to be moving on from the topic.

 

[Vrbtm]

Why are we still arguing over violence prohibiting characters from Smash when Bayonetta is actually in the game?
It's quite clear that neither Sakurai or Nintendo treat characters from an M rated game as an obstacle for a Smash entry.

It goes back to what I had said before, but forgot to elaborate on.

Sakurai likes breaking rules, but he only breaks those rules once and never again.

When Wii Fit Trainer was announced in Smash 4, everyone assumed that she opened the door for all these weird and out-there picks, but that ended up not being the case at all. The rest of Smash 4's newcomers were pretty straightforward, and had nowhere near the WTF factor that Wii Fit Trainer had. The truth is, we get one "WTF" character per game, and Wii Fit Trainer was the one for Smash 4.

When Piranha Plant came out, everyone assumed that all these generic enemies had a chance of being playable, when that's clearly not the case. The truth is that we get one of them. That doesn't mean we'll get more.

Now with Joker's inclusion, people are assuming characters with guns is a-okay now. The truth is, we get one character with a gun, and his name is Joker.

This is how it all works in my view.

 

[N3ON]

Why are we still arguing over violence prohibiting characters from Smash when Bayonetta is actually in the game?
It's quite clear that neither Sakurai or Nintendo treat characters from an M rated game as an obstacle for a Smash entry.

Some people have trouble paring subjectivity out of their rhetoric. As if talking about how you hate something, saying something already added shouldn't have been, and qualifying posts with "well I think" aren't big enough red flags.

 

[Dexlr8]

But do many people have characters that would actually seriously impact their enjoyment of the game if they were added?

Maybe it's just me, but ever since Banjo-Kazooie got into Ultimate, I physically could not care less who else gets in we got Joker, and that nearly made me burst into tears, then Banjo made me break, the only other characters that I would really be hype over would be Crash or Sora, and I doubt the latter of the two will even be added. There's only one or two characters I don't want, and that's Shantae. But knowing Smash, i'll probably end up playing them anyway because of how fun nearly all the characters are.

 

[Vrbtm]

What is you hate that's being endorsed? Violence in general? The specific franchises? The characters? Or a proliferation of non-Nintendo characters?

Nintendo makes family friendly games, for the most part. I simply dislike when they mingle with franchises that are made for adults. I don't want some kid playing Smash to learn about Doom from playing as Doomguy and then try it out for himself before he's old enough for it.

It's just irresponsible.

People mock those who say "think of the children," but honestly, what exactly is so ****ing bad about thinking of the children?

 

[Us3inMN]

Okay, lets clear this up:

DoomGUY is most likely going to be in Smash IF they choose a Doom rep. Toning him down is okay because his series is known for gore, but he himself is not.

Leon Kennedy will most likely be in Smash if they choose a Resident Evil rep. Resident Evil is known for it's survival horror aspect.

Scorpion will most likely be in Smash if they choose a Mortal Kombat rep. You can easily just subtract x-ray moves and get rid of gore while still representing the series by being Scorpion alone.

All games have Spirits that can be family friendly. All games have music can be family friendly. All stages can be family friendly and don't need gory/violent/bloody imagery from their respective games to still be fun.

Lets move on to a different topic now, please.

And

Nintendo makes family friendly games, for the most part. I simply dislike when they mingle with franchises that are made for adults. I don't want some kid playing Smash to learn about Doom from playing as Doomguy and then try it out for himself before he's old enough for it.

It's just irresponsible.

People mock those who say "think of the children," but honestly, what exactly is so ****ing bad about thinking of the children?

And when it comes to this, this is another topic entirely. The parents should be able to say no to them playing Doom. They may see Doomguy and be like "WOAH LETS GET THAT". That's the guardians job by saying no.

Again, lets just move on.

 

[Wunderwaft]

When Wii Fit Trainer was announced in Smash 4, everyone assumed that she opened the door for all these weird and out-there picks, but that ended up not being the case at all. The rest of Smash 4's newcomers were pretty straightforward, and had nowhere near the WTF factor that Wii Fit Trainer had. The truth is, we get one "WTF" character per game, and Wii Fit Trainer was the one for Smash 4.

Did you forget about Duck Hunt?
I don't know about you but I don't consider DH as a straightforward character since they represent the entire NES zapper era.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Okay new topic:

Since the New sticker is missing from the Characters tab but NOT the stages tab, it’s likely that if there is a new character reveal, it will be individual DLC without a stage. Likely someone from an already repped franchise.

Bandana Dee? Elma? Geno? Kasumi Yoshizawa?

If it’s any of the first three, it would sink the “Spirits Deconfirm” argument AND turn speculation on its head once again... I look forward to what happens regardless, especially where in the numbers the individual character falls...

 

[Dexlr8]

For me part of the enjoyment of Doom is being this super broken badass that goes around ripping through everyone, I feel like the charm of Doom wouldn't fit in smash if I'm being honest, same with Mortal Kombat. I love Scorpion as much as the next guy but it won't feel the same.

Leon from Resident Evil I feel like would be fine, Chris worked in Marvel after all.

 

[Vrbtm]

Did you forget about Duck Hunt Dog?
I don't know about you but I don't consider DHD as a straightforward character since they represent the entire NES zapper era.

I do. There's already several NES-era characters, and Duck Hunt is a popular game with meme value.

That's not to say I expected him to be announced, but Wii Fit Trainer is _definitely_ the weirder pick. Up until her trailer, no one even thought of her as an actual character, let alone a possibility.

And when it comes to this, this is another topic entirely. The parents should be able to say no to them playing Doom. They may see Doomguy and be like "WOAH LETS GET THAT". That's the guardians job by saying no.

Some parents don't do their job (most of them don't, in fact). Sad facts of life.

It's not Nintendo's job to be anyone's babysitter, sure, but their policy on family friendliness (that they don't need to have) is part of why I love and respect their brand.

Since the New sticker is missing from the Characters tab but NOT the stages tab, it’s likely that if there is a new character reveal, it will be individual DLC without a stage. Likely someone from an already repped franchise.

It's been stated that every DLC character will have a stage + a number of music tracks. That's what you get for your money. They can't go back on that without risking legal trouble.

 

[Dexlr8]

Bandana Dee? Elma? Geno? Kasumi Yoshizawa?

Spirits being hard deconfirms was something I was always iffy about, it's more of a 50/50 split but I consider them to just be trophies and not much else which doesn't make them invalid for character choices, but I guess only time will tell

If spirits didn't deconfirm I'd be pushing for Tails until I couldn't breathe anymore.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Okay new topic:

Since the New sticker is missing from the Characters tab but NOT the stages tab, it’s likely that if there is a new character reveal, it will be individual DLC without a stage. Likely someone from an already repped franchise.

I think the reason the "New" label is on Stages and not Fighters is because Yggdrasil's Alter was added to the list of DLC stages, but Hero's character page had been viewable for a while now and Banjo & Kazooie's page is still not viewable.

 

[Dexlr8]

It's been stated that every DLC character will have a stage + a number of music tracks. That's what you get for your money. They can't go back on that without risking legal trouble.

What about assuming they won't be apart of the Fighters Pass? Wouldn't that mean they'd be viable options? Or would they still need a stage? Because characters like Tails, Bandanna Dee, or even Geno don't need a stage imo.

 

[Deleted member]

Why do we keep having this topic? We already know that characters might take compromises in their despictions. That's why we have Isabelle or WFR hitting people, why we have Bayonetta not mauling anyone with her atracks, Snake without a handgun and not murdering people, and so on. If people don't like it we can't do much about it so its useless.

 

[Vrbtm]

Didn't Sakurai himself say that Spirits were added to the game to throw thousands of hopeless characters who will never be playable a bone?

Like, he wasn't as direct about it, but during the Direct where he was explaining was Spirits even were in the first place, that was the tone he gave off to me.

The entire point of Spirits is so that they don't have to be playable, but they can be in the game in the smallest possible way.

 

[Dexlr8]

Didn't Sakurai himself say that Spirits were added to the game to throw thousands of hopeless characters who will never be playable a bone?

Like, he wasn't as direct about it, but during the Direct where he was explaining was Spirits even were in the first place, that was the tone he gave off to me.

Pretty sure the Spirits were just a way to replace trophies since each Trophy would need it's own model, which would make the process for making them longer, also packed with the descriptions they had.

 

[Vrbtm]

Pretty sure the Spirits were just a way to replace trophies since each Trophy would need it's own model, which would make the process for making them longer, also packed with the descriptions they had.

Yeah, and no trophy ever became a playable character in the same game who wasn't already a playable character before (so Lucas and Mewtwo from Smash 4 don't count).

Trophies deconfirmed characters rather definitively, I'd say. And if Spirits are their successor, well, I have some bad news...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Sakurai likes breaking rules, but he only breaks those rules once and never again.

So now you're making rules about the lack thereof?

This is getting odd.

 

[Dexlr8]

Yeah, and no trophy ever became a playable character in the same game who wasn't already a playable character before (so Lucas and Mewtwo from Smash 4 don't count).

Trophies deconfirmed characters rather definitively, I'd say.

That is fair, because Lucas and Mewtwo were already in development prior to the game's release if I remember. But since DLC was just introduced in Smash 4 we can't really say for certain whether or not that's the case. If spirits deconfirm, I guess that increases the chances for the characters I'd like to see.

So now you're making rules about the lack thereof?

This is getting odd.

Honestly I think the only rules are that Assist Trophies can't be playable, and that only video game characters can get in. That's really only the rules I can definitely say exist.

 

[Vrbtm]

So now you're making rules about the lack thereof?

This is getting odd.

Not really. "Sakurai always breaks patterns and rules" is both a pattern and a rule in and of itself, so I'm just extrapolating on that.

 

[Dexlr8]

Not really. "Sakurai always breaks patterns and rules" is both a pattern and a rule in and of itself, so I'm just extrapolating on that.

I think the only rule he has ever broken was Ridley being too big, is there anything else i'm missing?

 

[GoodGrief741]

What about assuming they won't be apart of the Fighters Pass? Wouldn't that mean they'd be viable options? Or would they still need a stage? Because characters like Tails, Bandanna Dee, or even Geno don't need a stage imo.

Why would they have a new, unique playable character smack dab in between characters from the Fighter Pass? People would complain.

 

[Dexlr8]

Why would they have a new, unique playable character smack dab in between characters from the Fighter Pass? People would complain.

Fair enough, but what about after the fighters pass? Would there be a second one for characters from already represented series? Echo fighters pass?

 

[Vrbtm]

I think the only rule he has ever broken was Ridley being too big, is there anything else i'm missing?

"No M-rated characters" was broken by Snake, "no third parties" was broken by Snake, "no Assist Trophies" was broken by Little Mac, "no guns" was broken by Joker, "no overly sexual fanservice" was broken by Bayonetta, "no Western characters" was broken by Banjo, "no generic enemies" was broken by Piranha Plant, "no non-Nintendo characters" was broken by Joker.

Many, many others.

Some of these rules should never have been broken in the first place, but alas, they were. And now people assume that, because the rules are broken, that Sakurai will start breaking them all over the place. He hasn't. He often does it once, and then never again.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Yeah, and no trophy ever became a playable character in the same game who wasn't already a playable character before (so Lucas and Mewtwo from Smash 4 don't count).

Trophies deconfirmed characters rather definitively, I'd say. And if Spirits are their successor, well, I have some bad news...

Spirits could’ve been added before DLC plans were finished, Sakurai being told in January last year. The amount of spirit stuff already shows they didn’t just start working on them in 2018.

As for trophies, if they disconfirmed characters because Sakurai didn’t plan them, then Lucas and Mewtwo still wouldn’t have been added. Stop making up rules, you don’t know what Sakurai was thinking. And the rules you just dropped? They were all made up by the fans, Sakurai’s only rule he’s mentioned is videogame characters only.

 

[Dexlr8]

"No M-rated characters" was broken by Snake, "no third parties" was broken by Snake, "no Assist Trophies" was broken by Little Mac, "no guns" was broken by Joker, "no overly sexual fanservice" was broken by Bayonetta, "no Western characters" was broken by Banjo, "no generic enemies" was broken by Piranha Plant, "no non-Nintendo characters" was broken by Joker.

Many, many others.

Are you sure those were official rules? Sonic was gonna be in Melee wasn't he? Diddy Kong can be considered a western character also.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Why are we still arguing over violence prohibiting characters from Smash when Bayonetta is actually in the game?
It's quite clear that neither Sakurai or Nintendo treat characters from an M rated game as an obstacle for a Smash entry.

But Wunderwaft! Stylish! Flashy! Fashion! Doesn't count!

 

[Vrbtm]

Spirits could’ve been added before DLC. The amount of spirit stuff already shows they didn’t just start working on them in 2018.

I have literally no reason to believe that this is the case, and you haven't provided any.

As for trophies, if they disconfirmed characters because Sakurai didn’t plan them, then Lucas and Mewtwo still wouldn’t have been added.

The point is that they were already in other Smash games, and that's why they don't count as examples.

Stop making up rules, you don’t know what Sakurai was thinking.

Neither do you. The difference is that I'm the only one posting ideas, while you're just naysaying while contributing absolutely nothing.

But Wunderwaft! Stylish! Flashy! Fashion! Doesn't count!

It doesn't.

Are you sure those were official rules?

Yeah, that's the point. They're not official rules, they're made-up fan-made rules that seemed to make sense at the time before Sakurai broke them.

 

[N3ON]

"No M-rated characters" was broken by Snake, "no third parties" was broken by Snake, "no Assist Trophies" was broken by Little Mac, "no guns" was broken by Joker, "no overly sexual fanservice" was broken by Bayonetta, "no Western characters" was broken by Banjo, "no generic enemies" was broken by Piranha Plant, "no non-Nintendo characters" was broken by Joker.

Many, many others.

Setting aside that all these rules are fan fantasy, no rule ever gets broken twice, eh? Only one M-rated character? Only one third-party? Only one AT upgrade? Only one character with guns? (just because Bayo's are colourful doesn't mean they don't still fire bullets)? Only one character without a Nintendo association?

What happened to "Sakurai likes breaking rules, but he only breaks those rules once and never again".

Plus half those remaining "rules" were broken in the last few months, there's barely been the opportunity to break them again.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I have literally no reason to believe that this is the case, and you haven't provided any.

That's because it's an unfalsifiable claim. There's no evidence one way or the other.

Sonic was gonna be in Melee wasn't he?

It was actually Snake believe it or not.

Yeah, that's the point. They're not official rules, they're made-up fan-made rules that seemed to make sense at the time before Sakurai broke them.

Fan rules aren't broken. They're disproven as rules.