Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Izanagi97]

Yet people clamors for Scorpion. NottooviolentamIriteorwut?

I'm more a fan of Sub Zero if only because we don't have much in the way of dedicated Ice users outside of some special moves

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm more a fan of Sub Zero if only because we don't have much in the way of dedicated Ice users outside of some special moves

If you really think they'd put Sub-Zero over or before Scorpion you're delusional no offense.

There's a reason Scorpion is Mortal Kombat's poster boy. They'd never put any character above that as Smash has shown.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Doom and Resident Evil are too violent.

Sorry, this really ain't it chief. I know nothing is going to change your mind on this subject, but the gore content in Resident Evil really isn't that much worse than what you'd find in your average Persona or Bayonetta game. The only difference is the grotesque monster designs, and even then you could easily leave those out without losing anything. If you're argument is about realistic weapons, then allow me to introduce you to my friend Ren "For his neutral special, he wields a gun" Amamiya.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Easily anyone from Dead or Alive. The recent games may be rated M but that mostly has to do with sexual content and never gory violence.

Pretty good choice as well.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Dragonborn and Conker, all of the particularly violent elements could be removed without sacrificing their characters. Lara Croft could also be done well.

It'd be difficult to tone down Doom and Resident Evil.

Wait Skyrim is M-Rated?

If you're argument is about realistic weapons, then allow me to introduce you to my friend Ren "For his neutral special, he wields a gun" Amamiya.

Is that Joker's real name? I thought that was his friend.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Sorry, this really ain't it chief. I know nothing is going to change your mind on this subject, but the gore content in Resident Evil really isn't that much worse than what you'd find in your average Persona or Bayonetta game. The only difference is the grotesque monster designs, and even then you could easily leave those out without losing anything. If you're argument is about realistic weapons, then allow me to introduce you to my friend Ren "For his neutral special, he wields a gun" Amamiya.

To add to this, Jill and Chris were easily added to MVC without any need for overly gorey content. And with the existence of Snake/Joker guns, rpgs, grenades, etc. are in no way a problem

 

[TheCJBrine]

Guns themselves are okay, Shadow the Hedgehog was E10+.

To my surprise, because I just learned this. I knew there was a bit of swearing, demon-like aliens, and the guns, so I always assumed it was T at the least. I played it before I even turned 9.

 

[Zinith]

Guns themselves are okay, Shadow the Hedgehog was E10+.

To my surprise, because I just learned this. I knew there was a bit of swearing, demon-like aliens, and the guns, so I always assumed it was T at the least.

That actually was the original intent of the developers [to make it T-rated]. But then the E10-rating was introduced and they cut some content as a result

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Wait Skyrim is M-Rated?

Yep! It (and Oblivion as well) are M-Rated. Morrowind was T-rated.
Would love to see some more Dragonborn discussion, being Bethesda's flagship home-grown franchise it has a higher chance than people give it credit for.

Still, it'd be easy to tone Dragonborn down. Skyrim has some disturbing monsters/imagry at times and blood effects for weapon hits, but neither of those would need to carry over into Smash to portray the Dragonborn faithfully.

 

[N3ON]

Doom and Resident Evil are too violent.

In your opinion. Metal Gear and Bayonetta are also too much for Smash, in your opinion. You've said as much.

But clearly in reality, it's a different story.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It'd be difficult to tone down Doom and Resident Evil.

No it wouldn't. Take out the blood and dismemberment and they're no worse than Snake.

 

[N3ON]

You know Joker has both a gun and a knife. What more are people expecting from a RE character that would push the envelope to an infeasible extent? It's usually all the different creatures that provide the most gore anyway, not the protagonists.

 

[Vrbtm]

No it wouldn't. Take out the blood and dismemberment and they're no worse than Snake.

And then they're extremely poorly represented.

Your personal willingness to accept bad and unfaithful representation doesn't make a character more likely.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I don’t think we’ll see both Doom Slayer & a Resident Evil Character.

While both characters would definitely play differently (Slayer being based on rush down, while RE would have an Inventory Management mechanic) I don’t think Sakurai would want two gun based characters in the pass. Especially as the last two characters.

But who knows, I could be totally wrong. I want both characters anyway.

 

[Vrbtm]

The concept of "precedent" poisons the well for all speculation.

If the Smash roster has taught me anything, it's that Sakurai likes to do things ONCE and then never do it again.

 

[N3ON]

The concept of "precedent" poisons the well for all speculation.

If the Smash roster has taught me anything, it's that Sakurai likes to do things ONCE and then never do it again.

You must not have looked very closely at the Fire Emblem, Zelda, Kid Icarus, Mother, Star Fox, Castlevania or Street Fighter portions.

 

[Vrbtm]

You must not have looked very closely at the Fire Emblem, Zelda, Kid Icarus, Mother, Star Fox, Castlevania or Street Fighter portions.

You must not have looked very closely at the meaning of my post.

 

[N3ON]

You must not have looked very closely at the meaning of my post.

Well if Sakurai only does everything ONCE, that would apply to characters as well. Or at least the concept of a clone. But there are many, many clones. I guess he does do some things multiple times.

But I'll take a guess and assume it was somehow against Doom Slayer and a RE character. What has Sakurai already done once and only once which would hinder him including those two? Include an M-rated character? We have more than one. Tone that character down? Ditto. Implement a gun? Look how well that worked for swords. Help me narrow it down.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And then they're extremely poorly represented.

No moreso than Snake or Bayonetta.

Your personal willingness to accept bad and unfaithful representation doesn't make a character more likely.

Doesn't make it any less likely either.

 

[KingBroly]

I think Color theory is still going. In that, we'll get a character with a blue color and one with an orange color. But not green, since we got Piranha Plant.

 

[Ornl]

What should be important for the DCL is the added thing, with a new / rare / very fun concept, that each newcomer would have.
So there can be several sworders or gunners, provided he has something unique and different in addition.

According to Sakurai, 2014
- It’s important to have something only that character can do. Every character needs to have a reason to be in. The decision takes into account if there is no conflict with other characters.
"No matter how suited a character may be to fighting, if I cannot meaningfully distinguish them from other characters, or create fun unique characteristics of the characters, then that’s the end for them."
- Distribution among the franchises is also taken into consideration. The characters in a series that has no future are rarely chosen.
- The clones are treated as a “free desert” and aren't planned characters.
According to Reggie, 2018
"Who never saw it coming, new to the series, just like Joker from Persona 5 : it's emblematic of the approach that Mr. Sakurai and the team are taking with the DLC. He wants characters that are unique, different, to bring them into the Smash Bros environment. Ultimate would bring just a whole different level of fun and enjoyment for the player. That's been the approach. That's the thinking".
According to Sakurai, 2019
- Sakurai treats character’s individuality as its own game itself. All the unique systems certain characters has are all newly built just for him/her.
- Smash tend to have characters from older series. But just old characters wouldn’t make Smash worthy. If there is no new series, then the selection of the characters will be from the old series.

 

[ze9]

The "too violent" argument doesn't hold up anymore, guys. At this point they've already adapted plenty of violent or graphic franchise ins Smash, either as characters (Snake, Bayonetta and Joker), as bosses (Rathalos) or even as stage elements (Carmilla in Dracula's Castle) or assist trophies (the Fatal Frame chick).
They're just gonna work around it, like they always do.

And you better start to get used to the idea of Doomguy in Smash.

 

[Dangthatwasmyapendix]

Sorry, this really ain't it chief. I know nothing is going to change your mind on this subject, but the gore content in Resident Evil really isn't that much worse than what you'd find in your average Persona or Bayonetta game. The only difference is the grotesque monster designs, and even then you could easily leave those out without losing anything. If you're argument is about realistic weapons, then allow me to introduce you to my friend Ren "For his neutral special, he wields a gun" Amamiya.

The problem isn't all these things the individually problem is with Resident Evil at least is that it contains all of them. With those characters Snake and Bayonetta they were able to strip away the blood and gore and there was something left, to little johnny playing the game will just see a high tech military guy and a cool witch who fights evil monsters but with say Leon from Resident Evil, I doubt they'd allow bloody, rotting corpses to just hang out with Pikachu (I mean look at the E3 Nintendo direct, there was an ad for a Resident Evil collection and couldn't even show a Zombie) and if you take that away what's left? Just some dude in with a gun and a brown jacket, sure guns are in the game but with say Joker that's not all he has a character whose entire existence just popping Kirby full of lead and occasionally stabbing him. So the Characters design is bland, his moveset would be bland, the most recognisable aspect of the franchise (The Zombies) are too innately gorey to be included, what's even left?

 

[ROBnWatch]

If I remember correctly Super Smash Flash 2 gave Ness a critical hit chance on his Forward Smash. I hope the next smash game does this too because it's really satisfying to see that SMAAASH!!! Heck I even made half my namesake in reference to it (and now regret it because it sounds kinda bad if you don't get the reference).

Just to go back to this for a second, the SMAAAASH!!! line does appear whenever you beat the Starman Assist Trophy. Though it looks more like the text from EarthBound Beginnings over EarthBound.

Regardless, I think it’s fine that only Hero has crits. Because you can cheese out some early stocks with that. And it’s not like you have any control over whether it will be regular or a crit.

 

[Nquoid]

The problem isn't all these things the individually problem is with Resident Evil at least is that it contains all of them. With those characters Snake and Bayonetta they were able to strip away the blood and gore and there was something left, to little johnny playing the game will just see a high tech military guy and a cool witch who fights evil monsters but with say Leon from Resident Evil, I doubt they'd allow bloody, rotting corpses to just hang out with Pikachu (I mean look at the E3 Nintendo direct, there was an ad for a Resident Evil collection and couldn't even show a Zombie) and if you take that away what's left? Just some dude in with a gun and a brown jacket, sure guns are in the game but with say Joker that's not all he has a character whose entire existence just popping Kirby full of lead and occasionally stabbing him. So the Characters design is bland, his moveset would be bland, the most recognisable aspect of the franchise (The Zombies) are too innately gorey to be included, what's even left?

Something like Nemesis could quite easily fit in as a boss fight. Especially since we've seen the Castlevania bosses pull from more horror-y roots (admittedly from less violent source material) and ReDeads have been in the game which are literally gore-less zombies. I don't think you need zombies to represent Resident Evil, no other franchises have needed the enemies to feel complete, and characters like Chris, Leon and Jill have transcended their franchise into genuine gaming icons.

Honestly at this point my main hesitation with Resident Evil (and I think it's a super likely franchise, just based on Nintendo history alone) is that the moveset would probably end up being very similar to Snake with a proliferation of explosive weaponry. Especially if Marvel vs. Capcom is taken into consideration as a good jumping off point for a moveset.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I do think one of the remaining characters will come from Capcom. So RE is one of the more likely candidates by default.

Maybe the character in question (Jill or Leon) could be based on an ammo/supply reserve system. A character that has a lot of power early on, but becomes weaker in longer battles? I know others have suggested similar stuff.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

I think they could easily tone down zombies. Just make them pale humans with no pupils that make growling noises, then bam, E for everyone zombie. No need for missing limbs or flesh chunks at all to get the point across that its a zombie. I mean, look at the main zombie from RE2 remake. If you just took the blood off of her, and maybe give her a less exposing shirt(i dont think its that exposing but maybe japanese rating board cero would have a different opinion), then would it really be that innapropriate for Smash?

Spoiler: basic zombie from RE2 remake

https://i.redd.it/7h13mhj5pb221.jpg

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Doom can easily be brutal in the context of Smash without needing massive guts to rip and tear.

Example for his down throw he could slam the opponent into the floor and them stomp on them like in one of his Glory kills.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The problem isn't all these things the individually problem is with Resident Evil at least is that it contains all of them. With those characters Snake and Bayonetta they were able to strip away the blood and gore and there was something left, to little johnny playing the game will just see a high tech military guy and a cool witch who fights evil monsters but with say Leon from Resident Evil, I doubt they'd allow bloody, rotting corpses to just hang out with Pikachu (I mean look at the E3 Nintendo direct, there was an ad for a Resident Evil collection and couldn't even show a Zombie) and if you take that away what's left?

A fighting policeman from a lot of people's favorite video game franchise?

Seriously, the idea that ANY fan of Resident Evil, wouldn't want a RE character in Smash unless they were covered in zombie guts is ridiculous.

If the choices are "be toned down" or "don't be in the game", no fan of the series is going to choose the latter.

 

[RileyXY1]

A fighting policeman from a lot of people's favorite video game franchise?

Except as a whole he would be very uninteresting without a lot of the gory content, which would get the game's rating elevated to T if included.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Except as a whole he would be very uninteresting without a lot of the gory content, which would get the game's rating elevated to T if included.

Except for the part where Chris and Jill already appeared in MvC3 without having anything that would have kept them out of Smash.

If CAPCOM doesn't think the characters don't work without gory content, then why the hell would Nintendo?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Except as a whole he would be very uninteresting without a lot of the gory content, which would get the game's rating elevated to T if included.

I have to say, I don't really get that mentality. Snake might not have the M-rated elements from his series, but his playstyle reflects the nature of his game in a different way. Same with Bayo.

So as long as they can translate RE just fine via gameplay, I don't think most people would care that X monster from the series isn't in the game for being too disturbing.

 

[RileyXY1]

Except for the part where Chris and Jill already appeared in MvC3 without having anything that would have kept them out of Smash.

If CAPCOM doesn't think the characters don't work without gory content, then why the hell would Nintendo?

Nintendo is much more strict when it comes to their content. The RE2 trailer in the E3 direct didn't even show a single zombie. Also, Capcom has many other characters that they can choose from, such as Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, and Dante, among others.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Nintendo is much more strict when it comes to their content. The RE2 trailer in the E3 direct didn't even show a single zombie. Also, Capcom has many other characters that they can choose from, such as Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, and Dante, among others.

Dante was deconfirmed, but otherwise, yes. Capcom has other stuff to pull from. I just don't think we should discard RE, personally.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Nintendo is much more strict when it comes to their content.

But they're not more strict than Chris and Jill's appearances in MvC3. So, again, what would prevent those characters from being in Smash?

Also, Capcom has many other characters that they can choose from, such as Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, and Dante, among others.

So? Why should Nintendo pick a less popular series when they don't have to?

 

[RileyXY1]

We might not even get a Capcom character at all, as there are many other companies and characters that can get in.

 

[GoodGrief741]

And then they're extremely poorly represented.

Your personal willingness to accept bad and unfaithful representation doesn't make a character more likely.

Maybe not, but Sakurai's is.

The concept of "precedent" poisons the well for all speculation.

If the Smash roster has taught me anything, it's that Sakurai likes to do things ONCE and then never do it again.

According to you, Sakurai has already done the 'tone down M-rated characters' thing three times.

The problem isn't all these things the individually problem is with Resident Evil at least is that it contains all of them. With those characters Snake and Bayonetta they were able to strip away the blood and gore and there was something left, to little johnny playing the game will just see a high tech military guy and a cool witch who fights evil monsters but with say Leon from Resident Evil, I doubt they'd allow bloody, rotting corpses to just hang out with Pikachu (I mean look at the E3 Nintendo direct, there was an ad for a Resident Evil collection and couldn't even show a Zombie) and if you take that away what's left? Just some dude in with a gun and a brown jacket, sure guns are in the game but with say Joker that's not all he has a character whose entire existence just popping Kirby full of lead and occasionally stabbing him. So the Characters design is bland, his moveset would be bland, the most recognisable aspect of the franchise (The Zombies) are too innately gorey to be included, what's even left?

I'm sorry, but Resident Evil has some of the most iconic protagonists in gaming, so I think saying the designs are bland is just wrong.

Also this reeks of "DQ would be boring" all over again.

 

[DarthEnderX]

We might not even get a Capcom character at all, as there are many other companies and characters that can get in.

I...I guess. But what the hell does that have to do with what we're talking about?

The question was "Could Doom Slayer or a RE character work in Smash without all the violence from their series?"

To which the answer is "Capcom: Yes. We already did it in MvC3."

To which your response is, "Yeah, but other game companies tho..."

...?

Also this reeks of "DQ would be boring" all over again.

It reeks of people trying to disqualify characters they don't want for made up reasons.

 

[RileyXY1]

The question here is simple: can RE and Doom be represented without the gory content? The answer: I don't know, the gory content is much too iconic to Doom and removing it could be seen as a disgrace by Doom fans. Not so much for RE. The only things graphic over there are the enemy designs and the general look of the game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

There would also be the problem of the player being able to use real guns on kids

Which is clearly not an issue because the game already does it.