Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[YoshiandToad]

If Link was changed to properly represent The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild's (and it's sequel's) design philosophy then I think Young Link should stay so that Link's original moveset can still exist within the series.

We've still got Toon Link filling that role though with a more unique look.

 

[Deleted member]

Would you feel bad if I said I love Wii Fit Trainer for similar reasons?

Nothing wrong with your take at all since I also agree, it’s just that as someone who tends to do yoga I enjoy how Wii Fit Trainer was done in Smash with real yoga possitions.

I never said I'd be fine with Wii Fit Trainer getting cut, so I think it's cool you like Wii Fit Trainer similarly to how I like Incineroar. In fact, she's probably the best character to rep the Wii era and should always return in every Smash game from now on like G&W and ROB.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I also see a lot of people being fine with Corrin getting cut. Is Fates really that bad of a game to warrant cutting the main character or is it because he's the reason people hate seeing more Fire Emblem characters in Smash?

From what I've seen people don't like Birthright, but I haven't seen any bad mouthing of the other games. However, people seem to hate Corrin in Fates for being bland and poorly written and it probably mixes with general Smash X FE hatred.

We've still got Toon Link filling that role though with a more unique look.

Toon Link is a pretty big deviation from the traditional Link moveset. He's light, and doesn't have any melee focus whatsoever. Young Link is much closer, though even he doesn't quite fill the void to some people. (And of course to others the void doesn't exist.)

 

[Vrbtm]

Since I'm on a roll with good questions, how about this:

Your 3 dream characters get in, but they must replace 3 characters currently in the roster. Who would you add and who would you remove?

Waluigi replaces Bayonetta.
Skull Kid replaces Ridley.
Geno replaces Corrin.

Geno is not a "dream character" of mine by any means, but I have several friends who have wanted him for so many years, so it would be for them.

I also already got my dream character (Simon) so I'm already pretty happy as it is.

 

[TheCJBrine]

According to what other people have told me this is actually a lie. I have no way of verifying this but I also can't say the opposite is true either, as (to my knowledge) this information comes from the Super Mario Wiki. Wikis can be edited by anyone so it's pretty easy to spread misinformation.

EDIT: Once people got into a tizzy because someone edited a celebrity's Wikipedia page to say that she almost got married to the man with a big blue box.

That's true, but I don't see why someone would lie about Toad, it even gave the detail that the name is a mix of the mushroom "kinoko" and the Japanese name for Pinocchio, so it means "a real mushroom boy" and that sounds just like Nintendo. And with how Toad is used in games like Super Mario Run, Dr. Mario World, and the others I've mentioned, along with the different media that has a stand-alone Toad (for example...according to the wiki, and I still don't see why this would be a lie, the Japanese Nintendo-published manga, Super Mario-Kun, features Toad as a prominent character, him being the captain of the Toad guards at Peach's castle), I don't see how NoJ can't be treating him the same way as Yoshi at least.

As for the Kamek stuff, yeah I guess, the Mario Wiki says that and some guys in a youtube comment section said the same thing. I'd assume the Mario Wiki would have a staff team making sure nothing is a bunch of lies.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So... who's watching EVO? I'm really liking the variety of playstyles and characters so far.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

To be fair to Incineroar, I actually think it's moveset is pretty fun and it did a good job bringing the wrestler archetype into Smash. I'm just not not a big fan of it's design and it wasn't my Alolan Pokemon of choice (that'd go to Mimikyu because I love ghost types). Though I'd be lying if I said Incineroar didn't grow on me just a little bit after it's Smash inclusion. Even if I still don't like the design, Sakurai did a great job giving the guy a ton of personality and charm

 

[Vrbtm]

We only have characters for 22 letters of the alphabet. The missing letters are E, Q, U, and X (I don't count Eight or Eleven from Dragon Quest, just because the announcer doesn't identify any of the Heroes with their actual names for some reason).

For the sake of completing the alphabet, what four characters for each of those four letters are the most likely, or what would you want them to be?

E for Elma seems most likely, but I'd rather have Earthworm Jim if I'm honest.
Q for Quote is all I can think of.
U for Urbosa is all I can think of.
X for X, as in Mega Man X, is all I can think of.

That was harder than I thought it would be.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I feel like Kamek the character exists in Japan just as it does in the west, it's just that like Toad and Yoshi he just happens to have the same name as his species. I mean, there's only one Magikoopa in the Yoshi games who is clearly distinct from the rest as Baby Bowser's caretaker and the one who creates all the bosses, much like how there's only one Toad in Super Mario Bros. 2.

As for the cut three to add three question, my answers would be:

cut Chrom for Waluigi / Dixie Kong
cut Richter for Kamek
cut Young Link for Geno

 

[TheCJBrine]

I found it.

I found the proof Toad is treated similar to Yoshi.

You are saved, mushroom boy.

https://kotaku.com/nintendos-new-text-bot-is-kooky-1733961272

 

[tenworldsguy]

We've still got Toon Link filling that role though with a more unique look.

Spoiler: bad post alert!

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but Tink>Yink imo, at least in "deserves a slot". Toon Link at least represents a trio of unorthodox games, and has two separate stages for himself, in addition to being really graphically unique (no other character in the roster really shares his "ripped straight from a cartoon" artstyle). Young Link is just that- a young Link. His fire arrows are unique, but they're the only thing that keeps him from being completely overshadowed by the other Links. He and Toon are very similar (to the point where I question why TLink wasn't made a YLink echo or vise versa) so it's not even that he has anything unique or cool.
That being said, if they made a moveset that more accurately represents MM, then my complaints would vanish overnight. But Smash has a bad track record of being unwilling to change much of anything to veterans, especially the pre-Brawl ones...

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Spoiler: bad post alert!

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but Tink>Yink imo, at least in "deserves a slot". Toon Link at least represents a trio of unorthodox games, and has two separate stages for himself, in addition to being really graphically unique (no other character in the roster really shares his "ripped straight from a cartoon" artstyle). Young Link is just that- a young Link. His fire arrows are unique, but they're the only thing that keeps him from being completely overshadowed by the other Links. He and Toon are very similar (to the point where I question why TLink wasn't made a YLink echo or vise versa) so it's not even that he has anything unique or cool.
That being said, if they made a moveset that more accurately represents MM, then my complaints would vanish overnight. But Smash has a bad track record of being unwilling to change much of anything to veterans, especially the pre-Brawl ones...

I remember a period of time where my most wanted newcomer was a Young Link that switched between the different masks a la Pokemon Trainer. Sadly Smash 3DS made another transforming newcomer impossible and Ultimate opted to just bring back Melee YLink. I get why they didn't change YLink so drastically, but it would've really helped him stick out from the other two Links.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I remember a period of time where my most wanted newcomer was a Young Link that switched between the different masks a la Pokemon Trainer. Sadly Smash 3DS made another transforming newcomer impossible and Ultimate opted to just bring back Melee YLink. I get why they didn't change YLink so drastically, but it would've really helped him stick out from the other two Links.

I still say Young Link's final smash should have been him transforming into Fierce Deity

 

[GoodGrief741]

Too bad caring more for how relevant a character is than actually having fun with them isn't officially considered a crime.

I could say many things to this post, but I’ll just leave this here:
I’ve met many kinds of people in my life, both good and bad.

Osby ain’t someone who deserves jail at all over his thoughts on a videogame.

I guess having a sense of humor is rarer than I thought.

I also see a lot of people being fine with Corrin getting cut. Is Fates really that bad of a game to warrant cutting the main character or is it because he's the reason people hate seeing more Fire Emblem characters in Smash?

I'd say both.

Fates isn't exactly bad, the gameplay is Fire Emblem, but the story and characters didn't just drop the ball, they threw it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Old Robotnic's head looks like a nose...

I remember a period of time where my most wanted newcomer was a Young Link that switched between the different masks a la Pokemon Trainer. Sadly Smash 3DS made another transforming newcomer impossible and Ultimate opted to just bring back Melee YLink. I get why they didn't change YLink so drastically, but it would've really helped him stick out from the other two Links.

The issue is that it would add three newcomers. It's definitely not worth working on Deku Link, Zora Link, and Goron Link instead of three other characters that appeal to a wider audience. It wouldn't necessarily make Zelda fans happy since there are now six Links, a Captain Falcon clone, an outdated character that isn't even used in Zelda games anymore (sans Hyrule Warriors), and Zelda.

I still say Young Link's final smash should have been him transforming into Fierce Deity

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Deleted member]

Since I'm on a roll with good questions, how about this:

Your 3 dream characters get in, but they must replace 3 characters currently in the roster. Who would you add and who would you remove?

I wouldn't remove anyone due to me liking most of the characters and just feeling meh about some others. Plus, I'm satisfied with the characters I like that got in the game since I always get a few of my most wanted each Smash.

 

[tenworldsguy]

I still say Young Link's final smash should have been him transforming into Fierce Deity

they did the boy so dirty it makes me sad

 

[TheCJBrine]

The issue is that it would add three newcomers. It's definitely not worth working on Deku Link, Zora Link, and Goron Link instead of three other characters that appeal to a wider audience. It wouldn't necessarily make Zelda fans happy since there are now six Links, a Captain Falcon clone, an outdated character that isn't even used in Zelda games anymore (sans Hyrule Warriors), and Zelda.

Why would Zelda fans be disappointed? They’re all the same Link and likely wouldn’t be counted separately like Pokémon Trainer. It’d also give Majora’s Mask good representation which could work especially well if Skull Kid was added as a fighter. Even better if Midna and a few others were added so it’s not just MM. Young Link doesn’t even have to stay transformed, just use them for different moves.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If Link was changed to properly represent The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild's (and it's sequel's) design philosophy then I think Young Link should stay so that Link's original moveset can still exist within the series.

If they're not going to be Echoes, then each of the Links should have completely different specials at this point.

Like, okay, they all still need to be sword and shield users. But there's no reason all of them need to be using bows, bombs and boomerangs as well.

The Legend of Zelda franchise has countless other subweapons at this point! Let's use some of them!

I still say Young Link's final smash should have been him transforming into Fierce Deity

And BotW Link's final smash should have been him using Stasis Rune on his target, spin slashing them a bunch of times, then tapping them with an arrow at the end right before it wears off.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

And if it's ok for Hero to have crits then why don't the Fire Emblem characters have them when they're more important to them?

In Dragon Quest is a "oh, neat" moment whereas in Fire Emblem it's either a "BOOYAH!" or a shake fist at sky moment.

 

[3BitSaurus]

And if it's ok for Hero to have crits then why don't the Fire Emblem characters have them when they're more important to them?

In Dragon Quest is a "oh, neat" moment whereas in Fire Emblem it's either a "BOOYAH!" or a shake fist at sky moment.

This was literally one of the first things I thought when I saw that mechanic.

Dunno, compared to a lot of the roster, the FE people just... don't look like they have any heavy focus on representing the series' mechanics and strategy aspect. Robin is pretty much the only exception.

I understand why Marth, Roy and even Ike were made this way. Melee and Brawl had little development time and the team probably lacked resources to do much with them. A similar case can be made for other RPG characters, like the Pokémon and Earthbound crews. Lucina and Chrom were easy roster padding, not just with their similarities, but also that FE fandom popularity.

Corrin, though? There's very little reason. Especially with how crazy the other 3 original Smash 4 DLCs were. A lot of people have suggested some really interesting stuff for FE characters, like the turn-rewind mechanics and the new Battalions from Three Houses. But honestly... I don't see Nintendo doing it.

It's sad, because I think there's a lot of cool stuff that a tactical RPG character could bring that no other character can.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Why would Zelda fans be disappointed? They’re all the same Link and likely wouldn’t be counted separately like Pokémon Trainer. It’d also give Majora’s Mask good representation which could work especially well if Skull Kid was added as a fighter. Even better if Midna and a few others were added so it’s not just MM. Young Link doesn’t even have to stay transformed, just use them for different moves.

Whether they're counted as normal characters or not if they take the Pokémon Trainer approach by allowing Young Link to switch into different forms the workload would be the same as adding three newcomers. Also I was thinking in terms of adding them to the base roster of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

If they're not going to be Echoes, then each of the Links should have completely different specials at this point.

Like, okay, they all still need to be sword and shield users. But there's no reason all of them need to be using bows, bombs and boomerangs as well.

The Legend of Zelda franchise has countless other subweapons at this point! Let's use some of them!

Well, the special attacks don't need to be completely different to give them a different feel (like the Star Fox cast), but I do think each Link should have a moveset that fully represents their most recent game.

In a hypothetical game in which all Links return and have their movesets reevaluated, I would probably give Young Link a larger focus on using masks and the Ocarina of Time. Toon Link would be from Tri-Force heroes, switching between each Link and using their items. Link would have an emphasis on creativity and would get things like Stasis.

And if it's ok for Hero to have crits then why don't the Fire Emblem characters have them when they're more important to them?

In Dragon Quest is a "oh, neat" moment whereas in Fire Emblem it's either a "BOOYAH!" or a shake fist at sky moment.

It was incorporated into Marth and Roy's movesets through his tipper and...erm, hilter mechanics. It's also in most of their Final Smashes as well. Fitting since crits are 3x the attack power in the Fire Emblem series.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Pretty easily.

Some people, like me, have their preconceived notions of what the game "should" be like. For me, Smash is about family-friendly Nintendo characters and celebrating Nintendo's history first and foremost. Guests are just guests. I don't want the game to become "Video Game Smash Bros." because some franchises simply don't mix well with Nintendo's design philosophies.

Therefore, having characters like Snake and Bayonetta in the game genuinely pisses me off a little bit, as would getting characters like Doomguy and Master Chief. I just don't think they have any place in the game whatsoever, and I think the ones who disagree are trying to betray what the game should be all about.
Literally the entire point of Smash.
There is no reason to believe that this would necessarily be the case.

I feel Smash is more interesting as a giant love letter to all of gaming. It just so happens that Nintendo is a huge part of gaming & deserves such a large chunk of the love letter.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Old Robotnic's head looks like a nose...


The issue is that it would add three newcomers. It's definitely not worth working on Deku Link, Zora Link, and Goron Link instead of three other characters that appeal to a wider audience. It wouldn't necessarily make Zelda fans happy since there are now six Links, a Captain Falcon clone, an outdated character that isn't even used in Zelda games anymore (sans Hyrule Warriors), and Zelda.

Speaking of Sheik, I kinda wonder why they didn't give her her original, classic design from Ocarina of Time like Ganondorf, and instead had a design with elelments from the TP redesign and BotW Sheikh clothing even though it wouldn't make much sense for her to be the Zelda from BotW and Sheik itself was never a thing in that game???
Also she's totally supposed to be Twilight Princess Zelda right; she has the ponytail of that design and Palutena's Guidance refers to her in a familiar sense as to the Smash 4 case where it was TP Zelda and Sheik only separated...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Speaking of Sheik, I kinda wonder why they didn't give her her original, classic design from Ocarina of Time like Ganondorf, and instead had a design with elelments from the TP redesign and BotW Sheikh clothing even though it wouldn't make much sense for her to be the Zelda from BotW and Sheik itself was never a thing in that game???

Sheik was never in Twilight Princess either. I think they just picked what they liked the best/what was coolest.

 

[Vrbtm]

And if it's ok for Hero to have crits then why don't the Fire Emblem characters have them when they're more important to them?

In Dragon Quest is a "oh, neat" moment whereas in Fire Emblem it's either a "BOOYAH!" or a shake fist at sky moment.

Well, don't forget that Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom all have a Critical Hit as their Final Smash.

I've been playing Dragon Warrior for NES lately (which is actually DQ1), since I've never played a Dragon Quest game before, and getting criticals in this game has definitely been more of the "BOOYAH!" variety.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, don't forget that Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom all have a Critical Hit as their Final Smash.

I've been playing Dragon Warrior for NES lately (which is actually DQ1), since I've never played a Dragon Quest game before, and getting criticals in this game has definitely been more of the "BOOYAH!" variety.

Rie was referring to how much crits mean a lot in Fire Emblem in particular. You could be doing playing perfectly but still get a game over because Lucina tried to tip the fate by randomly killing Chrom while he's at full health. Or think you'll recruit Tharja on the next turn but get a game over because Tharja went "Omae wa shindieru" except in English. (I'm not salty...Nope.)

Comparatively critical hits don't happen very often in other RPGs (Unless that's the character's gimmick); enemies can't crit you in most games and when you get a crit it tends to be when the enemy died anyway. Spells tend to not be able to crit either. That's not to say they can't be helpful though. They're just not quite as impactful as they are in the Fire Emblem series.

EDIT: Also, crits in Fire Emblem deal 3x the damage which is much higher than in other RPGs.

 

[tenworldsguy]

While we're talking about Crits, I might as well mention Pokemon and Earthbound.
Pokemon doesn't do crits that exceptionally (the only notable thing about it is the frustration involved in receiving one, especially competitive and heavens forbid Nuzlockes), but Earthbound has an interesting "SMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASHHHHHHHHHHHH!" box that appears. Far less important to gameplay in either case but thought it should be noted.
Persona also has a notable feature with crits- a critical hit will stun an enemy, and if all enemies are stunned, that's a free All-Out Attack (a super powerful group attack). But Joker is gimmicy enough without crits as is, and maybe he doesn't need that sort of power

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

While we're talking about Crits, I might as well mention Pokemon and Earthbound.
Pokemon doesn't do crits that exceptionally (the only notable thing about it is the frustration involved in receiving one, especially competitive and heavens forbid Nuzlockes), but Earthbound has an interesting "SMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASHHHHHHHHHHHH!" box that appears. Far less important to gameplay in either case but thought it should be noted.
Persona also has a notable feature with crits- a critical hit will stun an enemy, and if all enemies are stunned, that's a free All-Out Attack (a super powerful group attack). But Joker is gimmicy enough without crits as is, and maybe he doesn't need that sort of power

If I remember correctly Super Smash Flash 2 gave Ness a critical hit chance on his Forward Smash. I hope the next smash game does this too because it's really satisfying to see that SMAAASH!!! Heck I even made half my namesake in reference to it (and now regret it because it sounds kinda bad if you don't get the reference).

Critical Hits are so inconsequential in Pokémon that there are moves that will always crit. Like, what is even the point?
EDIT: Actually now that I think about it I think crits in Pokémon ignore defense and special defense boosts so they're good in that way.

 

[Vrbtm]

Better idea: No more critical hits in Smash ever.

 

[Lucas Harder]

Alright, back to speculating on who the last two fighters will be. Honestly I am starting to think the next two will be from a company that has had representation in Smash before, and a completely new company to get represented. Honestly, I think the last two are Leon Kennedy and Doom Slayer, and I both feel like each have compelling evidence that could support their inclusion.

Leon Kennedy because of Resident Evil's popularity in the West and Japan, the series basically popularizing the horror genre and the series has also inspired other horror games to come after it, Resident Evil 4 being a timed exclusive on the GameCube and to be considered the greatest Resident Evil and horror game of all time, I feel like the horror genre is in need of a rep in Smash, and the wide promotion for the series from Nintendo. I mean c'mon, their was a live-action skit at Nintendo's E3 this year just to announce PORTS of Resident Evil 5 & 6, which are by the way considered to be the worst ones in the series.

Doom Slayer because of Nintendo and Bethesda's strong relationship, the crazy amount of support from Bethesda for the Switch, Doom being one of the founders for kick-starting the FPS genre, the original Doom trilogy coming to the Switch with Doom 64 being rumored as well, Mick Gordan's "secret project", and just because I feel like we need another Western rep, and if any Western rep makes it in, then I feel Doom Slayer makes the most sense. Also, Doom Slayer wouldn't be too violent for Smash if they base him off of his SNES counterpart.

On a separate note, I want to talk about a few characters I see brought up a lot that I quite honestly don't see getting in. As much as I hate to say this since he is my most wanted character, I highly doubt Crash Bandicoot is gonna make it in. Activision is a stingy company and I doubt they'll work with Nintendo to that extent because all they care about is money and nothing else. I really wish I was wrong though, but its the hard truth. Also, Scorpion will most certainly not make it in since Mortal Kombat games are banned in Japan and are by law not allowed to release their, so yeah good luck trying to get Scorpion in Smash.

But thats just my opinion

 

[Vrbtm]

Doom and Resident Evil are too violent.

 

[Lucas Harder]

Doom and Resident Evil are too violent.

I'm assuming you didn't read my full post.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Who's do you think is the easiest m rated character to implement into smash bros(aside from master chief).

 

[Lucas Harder]

Who's do you think is the easiest m rated character to implement into smash bros(aside from master chief).

Easiest to include without getting overly toned down? Obviously Conker since he already looks like a family-friendly character on the outside and including his main attacks from Conker's Bad Fur Day wouldn't destroy his character at all

Do I think its gonna happen? No since I don't think Microsoft and Rare wants to take up half of the slots [And CBFD didn't even get a Japanese release]. But I'd totally be down for it.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Easiest to include without getting overly toned down? Obviously Conker since he already looks like a family-friendly character on the outside and including his main attacks from Conker's Bad Fur Day wouldn't destroy his character at all

Do I think its gonna happen? No since I don't think Microsoft and Rare wants to take up half of the slots [And CBFD didn't even get a Japanese release]. But I'd totally be down for it.

nice choice.
although it's remake (live and reloaded) did get released in japan.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Doom and Resident Evil are too violent.

From what I've seen Resident Evil isn't even violent though. At least, not more than the Zelda series. It's just that the character design is much more gross n' stuff.

Who's do you think is the easiest m rated character to implement into smash bros(aside from master chief).

Lara Croft. No pools of blood necessary.

EDIT: Wouldn't even have to censor her language.

 

[Deleted member]

Who's do you think is the easiest m rated character to implement into smash bros(aside from master chief).

Easily anyone from Dead or Alive. The recent games may be rated M but that mostly has to do with sexual content and never gory violence.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Doom and Resident Evil are too violent.

Yet people clamors for Scorpion. NottooviolentamIriteorwut?

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Who's do you think is the easiest m rated character to implement into smash bros(aside from master chief).

Dragonborn and Conker, all of the particularly violent elements could be removed without sacrificing their characters. Lara Croft could also be done well.

It'd be difficult to tone down Doom and Resident Evil.