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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SMAASH! Puppy

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My thoughts on the "rules" I mentioned earlier that I think actually have merit:
  • 1st parties don't have to have some sort of promotional opportunity to get in.
  • Assist Trophies can get in.
  • DLC Spirits can get in.
  • Indies can get in.
  • I do think that in order to be a pick as a first party, a character is going to have to fill some sort of promotional opportunity. I no longer think this is as limiting as I've said in the past (even recently), but I think that, aside from a Xenoblade Chronicles or Xenoblade Chronicles 2 character, any 1st party's chances hinge on things happening next year that we don't know of yet.
  • While I did think Spring Man had a shot since he'd otherwise be a no-brainer pick for ARMS, the fact that he wasn't chosen says to me that Assist Trophies still officially disconfirm characters.
  • I'm not sure this applies quite as strictly to 1st party characters, but for 3rd party characters, negotiations are involved, and I can't see them negotiating for the same thing twice in rapid succession unless the Spirit came first. That'd just be a weird decision.
  • Indies are almost certainly on the table. The Shovel Knight, Undertale, and Cuphead series are obviously out, but there are still some decently likely candidates in Shantae, Ori, Cave Story, etc.


Ok so now can we talk about how beautiful an Ori stage would be? And then with the music. Ooohh I've never wanted a character so suddenly and so strongly before.
 
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N3ON

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I would like to amend my previous post by saying, despite my belief that very few characters can't get in, I do believe that the base game spirits were ineligible for FP1, insofar as I believe that since the pass was shaped before launch, the two were developed in coordination with each other so as to avoid overlap.

I believe the same is happening with the spirits events and FP2. So I'm not explicitly saying characters like those from RE, or Ring Fit or whatever can't still be added, though I very seriously doubt they will be. Unless, of course, we somehow get a FP3 (which I also doubt). Then I guess all bets are off.

welp


guess we'll wait to see if he's true or not but i guess treat the 9th with skepticism
You always should've treated it with skepticism, it's a rando on twitter who's now backpeddling in the face of a separate presentation having shown up since his claim.
 

Rie Sonomura

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My thoughts on the "rules" I mentioned earlier that I think actually have merit:

  • I do think that in order to be a pick as a first party, a character is going to have to fill some sort of promotional opportunity. I no longer think this is as limiting as I've said in the past (even recently), but I think that, aside from a Xenoblade Chronicles or Xenoblade Chronicles 2 character, any 1st party's chances hinge on things happening next year that we don't know of yet.
  • While I did think Spring Man had a shot since he'd otherwise be a no-brainer pick for ARMS, the fact that he wasn't chosen says to me that Assist Trophies still officially disconfirm characters.
  • I'm not sure this applies quite as strictly to 1st party characters, but for 3rd party characters, negotiations are involved, and I can't see them negotiating for the same thing twice in rapid succession unless the Spirit came first. That'd just be a weird decision.
  • Indies are almost certainly on the table. The Shovel Knight, Undertale, and Cuphead series are obviously out, but there are still some decently likely candidates in Shantae, Ori, Cave Story, etc.


Ok so now can we talk about how beautiful an Ori stage would be? And then with the music. Ooohh I've never wanted a character so suddenly and so strongly before.
pls i really want an Ori PreMiium brawler with Light of Nibel
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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pls i really want an Ori PreMiium brawler with Light of Nibel
Nah, give us the full character. I want all the music and the gorgeous stage that comes with it.

Hmm...I kind of wonder how they'd handle Ori themself since they're the color of the sky. Rivals of Aether got off easy since all their characters are outlined, but that's not the case in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
 

Megadoomer

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Hey So I need to ask a question

So I Know Travis Touchdown is kind of a Common Prediction. People say he might be getting the Bayonetta treatment (though I think the scenraios are different though)

I need to ask, What would Travis do in terms of Moveset that's not just Swinging his Sword around. I've watched footage of NMH1 and NMH2 from countdown lists from back in the day. Most of what he does is Swing his Sword, though I know he also has Wrestling, and can transform into a Tiger. All of the movesets I've seen for him mostly revolve around Swinging Sword

I believe Travis Strike Backs was stated to give more material to Travis in an Inclusion for Smash Bros, and he has that Death Glove thing, though I don't know what that exactly does. yes...
In the No More Heroes games, his beam katana is his main method of attack, though he can also use punches to stun enemies, as well as grabbing stunned enemies to perform various wrestling moves.

Upon beating an enemy, a roulette pops up which (if all three symbols match) lets him (among other things) turn into a tiger, increase his movement speed, shoot energy balls, or shoot out a massive wave of energy like a DBZ aura that clears the screen. Any of those could be incorporated into a Smash moveset, though the last one would likely work as a final smash. (alternatively, he gets a giant robot in No More Heroes 2 for a boss fight)

Travis Strikes Again: No More Heroes gives him the Death Glove, which lets him shoot electricity, pull enemies in with a wire, turn invisible, throw out sticky bombs, and more (a full list is here). Most of these Skill Chips can be used by any character, though each character has two chips that can only be used by them; in Travis's case, he can boost his attack power or fire shockwaves from his normal attacks for a short period of time.
 
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7NATOR

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In the No More Heroes games, his beam katana is his main method of attack, though he can also use punches to stun enemies, as well as grabbing stunned enemies to perform various wrestling moves.

Upon beating an enemy, a roulette pops up which (if all three symbols match) lets him (among other things) turn into a tiger, increase his movement speed, shoot energy balls, or shoot out a massive wave of energy like a DBZ aura that clears the screen. Any of those could be incorporated into a Smash moveset, though the last one would likely work as a final smash. (alternatively, he gets a giant robot in No More Heroes 2 for a boss fight)

Travis Strikes Again: No More Heroes gives him the Death Glove, which lets him shoot electricity, pull enemies in with a wire, turn invisible, throw out sticky bombs, and more (a full list is here). Most of these Skill Chips can be used by any character, though each character has two chips that can only be used by them; in Travis's case, he can boost his attack power or fire shockwaves from his normal attacks for a short period of time.
So Pretty much the Chips turn Travis into a Full on Sith Lord. Along with the Beam Katana, Putting Travis in would be like Putting in a Star Wars character (I know the first game in particular had some on the nose Star Wars references)

Also I do wonder if Suda would give Sakurai any access to any NMH3 Exclusive moves if Travis was to be in. In any case though, If Travis is in, I honestly Expect him to be the Last character, or one of them, like how Bayonetta was.
 

SirBillyBob

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To be honest, I would kill for a Quote deluxe Mii costume with a song. Yeah, it would be yet another one for mii gunner, but I don't care. Just let me play as him in some capacity.

Now, obviously I would prefer for Cave Story to get the full character treatment, but given what happened between Nicalis and Pixel, coupled with it not being new, I doubt that's happening.
 

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Bill and Lance are sleeping with the fishies after Rogue Corps had the audacity to exist
Irrelevant. Smash is the most powerful 1-Up in all of gaming. If Smash wants you to like, you will live, regardless of current status. Beheading, impaling, illness, crucifixion, it doesn't matter. You will get out of this alive, whether you like it or not.
 

Megadoomer

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So Pretty much the Chips turn Travis into a Full on Sith Lord. Along with the Beam Katana, Putting Travis in would be like Putting in a Star Wars character (I know the first game in particular had some on the nose Star Wars references)

Also I do wonder if Suda would give Sakurai any access to any NMH3 Exclusive moves if Travis was to be in. In any case though, If Travis is in, I honestly Expect him to be the Last character, or one of them, like how Bayonetta was.
I didn't think of it that way, but given that other chips let him throw enemies with telekinesis or drain health from nearby enemies, that sounds about right.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Everyone: We fight off threats with the power of technology!
The Old Guy: Hadouken!


How often does it happen though? I've never seen it get brought up this much before.
literally only when a direct was FOR SURE about to happen. i remember it being like that every time there was a direct imminent
 

Cutie Gwen

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Irrelevant. Smash is the most powerful 1-Up in all of gaming. If Smash wants you to like, you will live, regardless of current status. Beheading, impaling, illness, crucifixion, it doesn't matter. You will get out of this alive, whether you like it or not.
Ok but I refuse to be the only person who remembers Rogue Corps so I must make you suffer with me. Not even a Contra fan and that's the most stunning case of a company not caring about their legacy
 

SKX31

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Bill and Lance are sleeping with the fishies after Rogue Corps had the audacity to exist
There is a recent successful Contra game where the Terminator and Green Arrow (wuh?!) are guest characters.

Problem is that game - Contra Return - is exclusive to China / SEA. So practically no one outside has heard of it.

How's everyone doing to----

Sees the Directory has been updated again



....Oh boy, I can tell how this week is going to go already
In other words...

Lets do the time warp again?
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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It should be noted that Nintendo tends to postpone announcements if there is a major natural disaster or incident that affects large groups of people - especially in Japan. One such case in the Hokkaido earthquakes which postponed a Direct and Isabelle’s reveal.

Kyushu is going to get hit, dead on, by a super typhoon late Sunday and Monday so there is a small chance that any news that was supposed to be shown Monday - Wednesday could possibly be postponed. The storm is being called a “once in a lifetime” and the government isn’t dialing back in saying the death and destruction from this storm could be “catastrophic”. Personally, we will be fine as we are very far north and Kyushu is very far south. We will get some scattered thunderstorms but my in-laws lives in Kyushu so we are obviously very worried about them.

I do think the chance of us getting any news this week is extremely small but, if we are to, it would probably be postponed if the typhoon is as devastating as they are making it out to be.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

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It should be noted that Nintendo tends to postpone announcements if there is a major natural disaster or incident that affects large groups of people - especially in Japan. One such case in the Hokkaido earthquakes which postponed a Direct and Isabelle’s reveal.

Kyushu is going to get hit, dead on, by a super typhoon late Sunday and Monday so there is a small chance that any news that was supposed to be shown Monday - Wednesday could possibly be postponed. The storm is being called a “once in a lifetime” and the government isn’t dialing back in saying the death and destruction from this storm could be “catastrophic”. Personally, we will be fine as we are very far north and Kyushu is very far south. We will get some scattered thunderstorms but the my in-laws lives in Kyushu so we are obviously very worried about them.

I do think the chance of us getting any news this week is extremely small but, if we are too, it would probably be postponed if the typhoon is as devastating as they are making it out to be.
2020 really is a cursed year huh...
 
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It should be noted that Nintendo tends to postpone announcements if there is a major natural disaster or incident that affects large groups of people - especially in Japan. One such case in the Hokkaido earthquakes which postponed a Direct and Isabelle’s reveal.

Kyushu is going to get hit, dead on, by a super typhoon late Sunday and Monday so there is a small chance that any news that was supposed to be shown Monday - Wednesday could possibly be postponed. The storm is being called a “once in a lifetime” and the government isn’t dialing back in saying the death and destruction from this storm could be “catastrophic”. Personally, we will be fine as we are very far north and Kyushu is very far south. We will get some scattered thunderstorms but the my in-laws lives in Kyushu so we are obviously very worried about them.

I do think the chance of us getting any news this week is extremely small but, if we are too, it would probably be postponed if the typhoon is as devastating as they are making it out to be.
Holy ****, I hope the storm ends up being weak, and everyone stays as safe as possible. I wish everyone the best.
 
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Shroob

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It should be noted that Nintendo tends to postpone announcements if there is a major natural disaster or incident that affects large groups of people - especially in Japan. One such case in the Hokkaido earthquakes which postponed a Direct and Isabelle’s reveal.

Kyushu is going to get hit, dead on, by a super typhoon late Sunday and Monday so there is a small chance that any news that was supposed to be shown Monday - Wednesday could possibly be postponed. The storm is being called a “once in a lifetime” and the government isn’t dialing back in saying the death and destruction from this storm could be “catastrophic”. Personally, we will be fine as we are very far north and Kyushu is very far south. We will get some scattered thunderstorms but the my in-laws lives in Kyushu so we are obviously very worried about them.

I do think the chance of us getting any news this week is extremely small but, if we are too, it would probably be postponed if the typhoon is as devastating as they are making it out to be.
Not to sound disrespectful, but then I'd wonder why they're updating the Directory at all then if they're well aware of what the situation could end up being like.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Not to sound disrespectful, but then I'd wonder why they're updating the Directory at all then if they're well aware of what the situation could end up being like.
aren't directs filmed well in advance though?
 

Shroob

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aren't directs filmed well in advance though?
Yeah, but if they know there's a high chance that they'll need to delay it due to circumstances outside their control, why would they update the website this early and not wait until they feel more confident?
 

SKX31

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Not to sound disrespectful, but then I'd wonder why they're updating the Directory at all then if they're well aware of what the situation could end up being like.
aren't directs filmed well in advance though?
This is going to be completely idle speculation, but perhaps they're updating the Directory via the cloud infrastructure and saving one copy there? Honestly wouldn't surprise me since the pandemic did cause Nintendo and their studios to shift to teleworking. If a copy of a (mini-)Direct is indeed in the cloud there's hypotheoretically (depending on where the cloud servers are) less chance it'll be lost due to a natural disaster.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Not to sound disrespectful, but then I'd wonder why they're updating the Directory at all then if they're well aware of what the situation could end up being like.
Maybe to have something on hand just in case? It really depends on how this storm goes and how much of an impact it has. Considering it’s going to bulldoze over Okinawa and go up through south Kyushu and it’s entire length to Fukuoka and then into South Korea, it’s going affect much of the population including those in Hiroshima and Shikoku. It’s a massive storm. We will just have to wait and see. Again, I don’t think we were going to get any news this week but, if we were going to, j can see this storm impacting it.

8D114D5A-AE25-4FF2-B198-C0B126E3160E.png


Red represents the center while yellow represents the outer layers of the storm

8B5C937E-933C-462F-8826-CFEEF7A55F4C.png
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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It should be noted that Nintendo tends to postpone announcements if there is a major natural disaster or incident that affects large groups of people - especially in Japan. One such case in the Hokkaido earthquakes which postponed a Direct and Isabelle’s reveal.

Kyushu is going to get hit, dead on, by a super typhoon late Sunday and Monday so there is a small chance that any news that was supposed to be shown Monday - Wednesday could possibly be postponed. The storm is being called a “once in a lifetime” and the government isn’t dialing back in saying the death and destruction from this storm could be “catastrophic”. Personally, we will be fine as we are very far north and Kyushu is very far south. We will get some scattered thunderstorms but my in-laws lives in Kyushu so we are obviously very worried about them.

I do think the chance of us getting any news this week is extremely small but, if we are to, it would probably be postponed if the typhoon is as devastating as they are making it out to be.
Oof. First Texas and now this? Can we just drop kick 2020 into the abyss already and clean up in 2021?

I should probably clarify that I'm sure Texas had it much better in comparison but a major storm is a major storm; It's not awful regardless of the circumstances. I hope everyone is, was, and will be safe with minimal damage to their livelihood. As minimal as it can be under a massive hurricane/typhoon.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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It should be noted that Nintendo tends to postpone announcements if there is a major natural disaster or incident that affects large groups of people - especially in Japan. One such case in the Hokkaido earthquakes which postponed a Direct and Isabelle’s reveal.

Kyushu is going to get hit, dead on, by a super typhoon late Sunday and Monday so there is a small chance that any news that was supposed to be shown Monday - Wednesday could possibly be postponed. The storm is being called a “once in a lifetime” and the government isn’t dialing back in saying the death and destruction from this storm could be “catastrophic”. Personally, we will be fine as we are very far north and Kyushu is very far south. We will get some scattered thunderstorms but my in-laws lives in Kyushu so we are obviously very worried about them.

I do think the chance of us getting any news this week is extremely small but, if we are to, it would probably be postponed if the typhoon is as devastating as they are making it out to be.
Oh yeah, forgot I saw stuff about that on twitter. Sounded pretty damn horrible
 

Evil Trapezium

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I like to hypothesise Crash's trailer. At the end, he beats up Mario who is on his last legs, Sonic comes in to join Crash's side but as they're about to finish Mario off, Banjo & Kazooie wonderwing into them to Mario's aid, Crash and Sonic taking the brunt force but are still up for a fight, then the final shot is Mario and Banjo & Kazooie vs Sonic and Crash, all about to clash with Pac-Man and Megaman in the background to signify all of the company mascots.

It'll never happen but it'd be pretty cool.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I like to hypothesise Crash's trailer. At the end, he beats up Mario who is on his last legs, Sonic comes in to join Crash's side but as they're about to finish Mario off, Banjo & Kazooie wonderwing into them to Mario's aid, Crash and Sonic taking the brunt force but are still up for a fight, then the final shot is Mario and Banjo & Kazooie vs Sonic and Crash, all about to clash with Pac-Man and Megaman in the background to signify all of the company mascots.

It'll never happen but it'd be pretty cool.
"Hey Sony you were being a big party pooper so we put your mascot in there for you!"
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I see the discussion of "rules" has come up again. I haven't been around as much lately so I don't necessarily know the entire context but I'll just add my two cents here.

100%, I think if folks say something like, "Indies can't happen" then yeah...that's a pretty silly statement. There's nothing that says they can't, and no character should really be treated like an impossibility. There's frankly no way to know that, let alone prove it. The characters we know to be "impossible" from Sakurai himself are picks like Goku, Iron Man, or Spongebob. That's it in terms of "impossible".

Another suggested "rule" is "spirits disconfirm". This was, in my opinion, part rule and part speculation. This held true for Volume 1, and it made sense due to the context: the DLC was decided alongside the base roster, so it'd be kind of weird to see a character who got a "non-playable" type spirit become playable. There was also the wording of Spirit mode (as was previously mentioned) as well as Piranha Plant who didn't have a spirit in base game. This suggested that there was specific reasoning to go with Spirit choices. Based on that, it would seem that in the context of base roster --> Volume 1, Spirits DID disconfirm.

That said, Volume 2 is a new context. Min Min showed that Spirits aren't a death wish to characters, but does this help picks like Geno? That's yet to be seen. Min Min wasn't picked for popularity on its own, which is essentially the criteria which Geno would be picked for. It's a different situation. What helps one doesn't help all. Banjo-Kazooie may have shown that western-created characters CAN be added, but it doesn't mean all will. That's probably the best outlook: No character is impossible, but with 5 characters left, it's impossible for all characters to happen.

What I don't consider a rule, but simply speculation, is the observations that:

1) All series getting a "new" fighter have started with a character who is considered a "protagonist" by the developers, or widely seen as the protagonist. Every series with a visible protagonist has held true to that, even Min Min as "protagonist" as defined by Yabuki and Sakurai. Considering this has held true for every Smash game, it seems like this is an observation that has a solid chance to holding true. That said, this will likely only continue to apply to 3rd parties and few remaining 1st party series that seem "eligible" for a playable fighter.

2) Challenger Packs 1-6 have brought something new to Smash Ultimate in what are essentially themed packs. 1st party newcomers have thus far been new, marketable titles over games that are older. Could this change? Maybe, but it probably depends on which games they want to push, and if there's a character they want to pull from it.

3) With Mario having a 35th anniversary Smash tournament, it seems like the most opportune time to announce a Mario DLC fighter if the series is getting one. Nintendo not only has influence in the choosing of Fighters in Volume 2, but they obviously also plan out content for other events and games. It's not crazy to maybe think that, just maybe, it would make more sense to announce a character like Waluigi or Geno before the tournament starts to properly celebrate "all of the Mario content" (characters, stages, and items) as opposed to afterwards, showing that the tournament didn't really celebrate all the Mario content in the game due to the character, stage, and music that would come with the Waluigi or Geno challenger pack.

To respond to things like what's written above with "fan rule" comes across as disingenuous. This isn't arguing anything that says a character is impossible- it's making the observation, and then speculating what it could mean for future picks. That's literally the act of speculation, and it is frustrating to see these types of ideas get shut down rather than responded to, rather than either "fan rule" or "Sakurai does what he wants!" These should be met with a more open and grounded approach, in my humble opinion.
--
There are probably others I would suggest if I was thinking harder, but I'll close with the following: There's been a large movement against "fan rules" in the past year, which seems to largely target the idea that some folks are limiting what people can talk about. That seems weird, if you ask me. I know I usually have ideas that I shared and there are times I've definitely wholeheartedly believed them. That said, nobody is forcing anybody to believe what they write. If you disagree with what somebody has to say, suggest a different perspective and explain it. That's how discourse works! It's not like we're inherently arguing with each other and seething that the other person is horrible for wanting Dr. Goomba Stack (though I may judge just a little on that one). These are not personal attacks on people or characters. Some ideas gain traction because folks make a compelling case for them, and it's based/grounded in something. It's as simple as that, really.

(Sorry, BEEG post)
 
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