Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

No one wants to see their fighter majorly angsting on the battlefield.

Shadow Fans: visible sweating

You know what? **** it, Fire Emblem fighting game. Every base is covered, we can all go home now and stop arguing. The end.

Yes but also no.

 

[PSIGuy]

Considering we haven't even seen the SMTV protagonist's "battle mode" I can't help but feel he's reaching a bit.

They just need enough done to be able to show Sakurai. Then he can pull a Byleth and work on him before he's even out.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They just need enough done to be able to show Sakurai. Then he can pull a Byleth and work on him before he's even out.

Or a Greninja and have him work on the character before it even has things that it does.

...Actually it was probably a miracle that Greninja worked out in that regard, maybe don't do that.

 

[7NATOR]

Perhaps they didn't give Byleth Divine Pulse, despite being important to FE3H because

-Perhaps the Character concept they decided to use with Byleth would not have gel well with Divine Pulse
-Perhaps it's just really hard to Implement
-They are saving it for another character, one who's based around Manipulating Time

Could be combination of these factors

 

[Perkilator]

Perhaps they didn't give Byleth Divine Pulse, despite being important to FE3H because

-Perhaps the Character concept they decided to use with Byleth would not have gel well with Divine Pulse
-Perhaps it's just really hard to Implement
-They are saving it for another character, one who's based around Manipulating Time

Could be combination of these factors

Another one is maybe that full-on time manipulation would be broken if not relegated to a counter.

 

[Cosmic77]

Translations aside, I'm not reading too much into the "publisher(s)" comment because I'm not even 100% sure Sakurai meant it in the way people are interpreting it as.

It's similar to that "new worlds" comment people were using to claim we'd only get new franchises. I'm sure you could still find a way to argue that it's still true, but it'd be a lot less believable. Byleth and Min Min require a lot of workaround, so the simpler answer at this point is that Sakurai was just happy to add more new characters.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I think for the New Company rep Falcom has a higher chance than many give them credit for. Estelle, Rean and Adol all seem like characters that have a decent chance

As much as I love Trails and would be incredibly excited to see Estelle, Lloyd, or Rean in Smash. I am not so sure about Falcom rep since they don't have much history with Nintendo, hell Nintendo only started getting Trails recently with a nearly 3 year late port of Cold Steel 3 to the Switch and that port was basically only done because NIS America now has the publishing rights to the most recent games for the series in the west and they tend to port everything to they publish to the system.

While with Ys, Nintendo did get some of the later games in the series, Falcom had pretty much ignored Nintendo systems entirely until NIS had to convince them bring Ys Viii to the Switch.

 

[Schnee117]

Divine Pulse should be in Byleth's moveset but then they'd take the boring route and make it a generic counter.

Another one is maybe that full-on time manipulation would be broken if not relegated to a counter.

That would be on the balance team. Several fighting game characters have time stops and Geras' time manipulation is perfectly fine.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Perhaps they didn't give Byleth Divine Pulse, despite being important to FE3H because

-Perhaps the Character concept they decided to use with Byleth would not have gel well with Divine Pulse
-Perhaps it's just really hard to Implement
-They are saving it for another character, one who's based around Manipulating Time

Could be combination of these factors

The third one is unlikely since the two passes were assembled at different times, but yeah, there are definitely understandable reasons not to add it given the direction. Heck, it may not have existed when they were considering the moveset's direction.

Another one is maybe that full-on time manipulation would be broken if not relegated to a counter.

It'd probably be fine if it was tied to an aggressively draining meter that wasn't tied to a comeback mechanic. Perhaps not if it affected more than just Byleth, but if it just affected Byleth there would be clear counterplay.

 

[PeridotGX]

I have no problem with the way Byleth was implimented, but it's almost completely opposite to how i though he'd be. I would've implimented him as a faster Belmont with no projectiles, but we got a slow, ranged fighter.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I would've implimented him as a faster Belmont with no projectiles...

Sooo...not a Belmont at all?

Silly PeridotGX , don't you know that Belmonts only have B moves?

 

[cashregister9]

As much as I love Trails and would be incredibly excited to see Estelle, Lloyd, or Rean in Smash. I am not so sure about Falcom rep since they don't have much history with Nintendo, hell Nintendo only started getting Trails recently with a nearly 3 year late port of Cold Steel 3 to the Switch and that port was basically only done because NIS America now has the publishing rights to the most recent games for the series in the west and they tend to port everything to they publish to the system.

While with Ys, Nintendo did get some of the later games in the series, Falcom had pretty much ignored Nintendo systems entirely until NIS had to convince them bring Ys Viii to the Switch.

NIS only localized and published the games in Europe and America they were handled by Falcom themselves in japan, If we want to get extra petty come this Spring Estelle, Rean and Adol will have been in more Switch games than Joker. I do agree that console legacy does have a little bit to do with it I think recently it doesn't matter as much, that's my 2 cents at least

EDIT: I am a Mega- because I cannot read

 

[PeridotGX]

Sooo...not a Belmont at all?

Silly PeridotGX , don't you know that Belmonts only have B moves?

I had a weird dream where Simon hada whip or something. I know he has one in Smash (like Falcon's gun) but he was actually, like, using it. Ness also had a baseball bat and fist.

 

[7NATOR]

Divine Pulse should be in Byleth's moveset but then they'd take the boring route and make it a generic counter.



That would be on the balance team. Several fighting game characters have time stops and Geras' time manipulation is perfectly fine.

yeah this.

There have been fighting game characters that have Time Manipulation as a maiin move of them, however there hasn't been too many though. Geras is Probably the only example in recent Memory that uses Space,Time Manipulation in a mechanical way and not just Cinematic.

As cool as Zasamael from Soul Caliber and Hit from Dragon Ball fighterZ, their Time Maniuplation is more Cinematic. Hit uses more Space Manipulation in his main moveset though.

Where I'm getting at is that Bayo in Smash does use Time Manipulatiion, but only as a counter since that's not her main focus. probably would have been the Same for Byleth because those type of moves don't work with their character concept

In order for a character to get in with Time/Space Maniplation, we need a character that's based around it. The only Realistic characters I could think of are Prince of Persia, Tracer, and Shadow the Hedgehog. There's others like Sakuya Izayoi from Touhou, who's popular in her own Series, but Reimu would 99% get in over her anyway

 

[I.D.]

I think the point being made is not the number of games on Switch, it's that the relationship between Nintendo and Falcom obviously isn't the best.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I'unno how difficult it'd be to program something like this, but this seems like it could be an interesting way to implement future-predicting/time-changing shenanigans via either a counter or a Final Smash.

During the attack, the enemy directly controls the red version of S.F. but cannot hurt or be hurt by you, and the blue version follows their red counterpart's movements perfectly but with a second's delay. It also can still interact with the player that initiated the time-counter. The time-attack ends the moment the blue player is attacked, interrupting the intended path they intended to take to follow the red version.

 

[MooMew64]

A few things I think should be considered:

1) Since that Famitsu column where Sakurai pointed out the struggles of making distanced development for Smash, where he mentioned "working with publishers". Awhile back, I went over the difference between publisher and developer, and how the term itself has meaning within the context. There were a few important sentences.




A few things to note...Nintendo is mentioned separately from "publishers". Developers like Intelligent Systems or GameFreak are not considered publishers, but larger companies like Namco, Capcom, or Square Enix are (think of the meeting for Hero). There are plenty of publishers, so this isn't specifically those 3 companies, but it should be noted that, at the very least, we're looking at at least 2 publishers that aren't Nintendo, ergo, there's likely at least 2 3rd parties. I would say it's more likely that it's 50/50 3:3, though I don't have anything to base that on. It's a feeling I have, and that's subject to change in either direction if assist trophy/mii costumes are on the table for "upgrades" or legitimately off the table.

2) I think that it's highly likely that a new company will be included in Smash by the time we get Challenger Pack 11. This doesn't really narrow anything down, but I think, if it's a Japanese gaming company, companies like Koei Tecmo or ArcSystemWorks are in the mix. However, I would also argue that any company with a playable character in that isn't from SNK is on the table as well. It seems reasonable to me to expect AT LEAST one character from a new company, and AT LEAST one character from a company already collaborating.

Atlus seems to be SMT3/5 or bust. SNK is most likely out given the wide berth the Terry pack covered. Namco has Pac-Man and Tekken covered, with Tales unaccounted for. To my knowledge, there appears to be a drop off of popularity after that, thought that doesn't disconfirm Namco by any means. Capcom and Square Enix both have substantial backlogs with untapped potential, so I wouldn't be surprised to get a character from either company (though I doubt more than one from any given company, aside from Nintendo for obvious reasons).

3) Each "Season" of Smash DLC has included at least ONE "marketing" pick as defined by the fanbase. Corrin was first, Byleth 2nd, and now Volume 2 has started with Min Min who seems further away from a "marketing" pick from the previous two, though she could arguably still be considered one. Therefore, it's possible that we could still get a "marketing" pick from Nintendo, which I could see being from Pokemon. I have to agree that games that are still unannounced may not be in a great spot to get a playable character at this point, though it's tough to say that for sure.

Characters I could see from each company, to make things more concrete:

Atlus: SMTV protagonist, Demi-fiend
SEGA- Kiryu, Arle
Capcom- Dante, Amaterasu, Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright
Namco- Lloyd Irving/Yuri Lowell, Soul Calibur, Dark Souls
Square Enix- 2B, Bravely Default, Neku Sakuraba, Geno, Lara Croft. A lot to go around here
Microsoft- Master Chief, Steve Minecraft
SNK- oof
Koei Tecmo- Ryu Hayabusa seems like their Terry, though I guess I can't rule out others
ArcSystemWorks- S(c)ol Badguy, Ragna the Bloodedgelord
Ubisoft- highly questionable based on content they already have, but Rayman probably. One would think Assassin's Creed and Rabbids costumes would come with Rayman, no?
Activision- Crash Bandicoot
Falcom- Trails in the Sky (funny acronym lmao amirite), Ys to name a few series

What do you think?

I'm gonna go ahead here and address my thoughts on each character you listed. I don't have a super great understanding on all of them, but I'll try my best, lol:

Atlus: To be quite honest, I'm really doubtful of more Atlus content. Persona and Shin Megami are radically different games, but TBH I still feel even with that in mind, Joker and Persona already being in may be all Atlus and Nintendo really wanna go for. I fully understand this is shaky reasoning, but I'm just not sure I see SMT being a high contender, especially when an Atlus rep will be contending with other Sega reps due to being a Sega subsidiary.

SEGA: Sega is interesting to me here because I feel there's a decent amount of untapped potential here depending on how the rest of this DLC turns out. Kiryu is a wild card that I'm not sure how to feel about: He feels like a darkhorse pick that would make a ton of sense in hindsight when you look at Sega's marketing ATM, but I'm not so sure he has enough of a leg up on Arle. Puyo Puyo is incredibly popular in Japan with a growing userbase over here in the west that Sega is continually trying to grow, and it has the benefit of appealing to a wider audience to boot. I feel if Sega is getting a fighter, Arle has the edge here.

Capcom: Dante. In my mind, it's almost assuredly Dante if Capcom gets another: DMC is being pushed very heavily by Capcom ATM and there's the benefit of having the requests for him acknowledged before pass 2 would've been in the planning phases and ports of his games were on the way to Switch, bolstering his popularity amongst Smash fans even more. I'm not a Dante fan at all personally, but in my humble opinion, he is the likeliest character out of anything suggested right now given how both Capcom and Nintendo seem to have an interest in DMC content right now. Phoenix Wright is a dream character for me, but looking at Capcom right now...DMC is clearly the higher priority for them.

Namco: My heart wants to say Yuri, but my I know it's probably going to be Lloyd or a Soul Calibur rep. Dark Souls could happen as well.

Sqaure Enix: I think the prime suspects are 2B and Bravely Default. 2B fits the same molds that Joker does, while Bravely fits the ones Dragon Quest did. Sora is a no 'cause of the Mouse, Neku is a sleeper pick I could see happening, I personally don't think Geno has incredibly great odds due to competition and treatment from his parent company, and Lara is a huge potential that I'm floored no one talks about.

Microsoft: Microsoft is tricky: I'm personally not convinced another character is in the bag as much as others do. Master Chief I think is a huge pipedream addition IMO, and Steve feels like he's in a weird spot due to complications communicating with western developers. If either one is coming, though, my money is on Steve: Minecraft has a huge presence on...everything, and the Nintendo audience is exactly the kind of audience you'd want to cater content for it to.

SNK: They're done.

Koei Tecmo: They're in the same position Platinum Games was in during Smash 4's DLC: Extremely chummy with Nintendo and have a wealth of characters that would appeal to Nintendo's home market of Japan. Ryu makes a lot of sense, but I think Atelier could be a sleeper pick as well with that series starting to grow and get a lot of focus from KT. Hard to tell ATM.

ArcSystemWorks: Don't know enough about them to comment, honestly. Their games ain't really my scene.

Ubisoft: I think they're out like Bethesda. The timing of the Mii costumes don't make any of their picks look great, especially the Rabbids not coming with Rayman.

Activision: Crash or nothing. Spyro would be amazing, but Crash is the choice no question, and I'm fine with that. This one is probably the most likely western pick if we got another one coming.

Falcom: Ys is a pick that would make a ton of sense in hindsight, not sure if I see Trails in the Sky.

Those are my thoughts. Not the best takes probably, but this is how I'm viewing things ATM.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Where I'm getting at is that Bayo in Smash does use Time Manipulatiion, but only as a counter since that's not her main focus. probably would have been the Same for Byleth because those type of moves don't work with their character concept

It's also worth noting that Witch Time is a counter in her home series as well (well, it looks more like a type of dodge roll, but the idea is the same).

There's others like Sakuya Izayoi from Touhou, who's popular in her own Series, but Reimu would 99% get in over her anyway

I think she'd use it more for creating lingering hitboxes than what you'd expect from actual time manipulation anyway if I'm thinking of the right character.

 

[Schnee117]

yeah this.

There have been fighting game characters that have Time Manipulation as a maiin move of them, however there hasn't been too many though. Geras is Probably the only example in recent Memory that uses Space,Time Manipulation in a mechanical way and not just Cinematic.

As cool as Zasamael from Soul Caliber and Hit from Dragon Ball fighterZ, their Time Maniuplation is more Cinematic. Hit uses more Space Manipulation in his main moveset though.

Where I'm getting at is that Bayo in Smash does use Time Manipulatiion, but only as a counter since that's not her main focus. probably would have been the Same for Byleth because those type of moves don't work with their character concept

In order for a character to get in with Time/Space Maniplation, we need a character that's based around it. The only Realistic characters I could think of are Prince of Persia, Tracer, and Shadow the Hedgehog. There's others like Sakuya Izayoi from Touhou, who's popular in her own Series, but Reimu would 99% get in over her anyway

Nah Zas' time stops are an actual part of gameplay in SC6 with his curses. There's also Jotaro and Dio in various JoJo games and Hades Izanami works similarly. Geras is also a go to example for good reason.

With Byleth it's really as simple as only letting them use DP a limited number of times per stock like DP has a limited amount of uses per map in Three Houses.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

With Byleth it's really as simple as only letting them use DP a limited number of times per stock like DP has a limited amount of uses per map in Three Houses.

For a second I was wondering why you wanted to give Byleth a limited use dragon punch.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

In case you didn't know, Byleth is the WORST character in Smash EVER.

Don't @ me.

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

They did implement Divine Pulse in Smash as part of the Byleth DLC, though: Sothis's spirit gives Critical-Health Healing ↑ ↑.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

In case you didn't know, Byleth is the WORST character in Smash EVER.

Don't @ me.

Nah, that honor goes to the character of Challenger Pack #11.

Screw that character.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

In case you didn't know, Byleth is the WORST character in Smash EVER.

Don't @ me.

For the record, even when Byleth came out I still thought Corrin was the worst character they added to Smash. Byleth was just an unfortunate victim of mounting circumstances that culminated in their...heated response to getting put in.

 

[JCKirbs]

Nah, that honor goes to the character of Challenger Pack #11.

Screw that character.

I didn't think you'd have the nerve to insult Gex like that, but okay.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I didn't think you'd have the nerve to insult Gex like that, but okay.

His depiction is pretty ****ty though. Pop culture references are all he's remembered for and he barely mentions Jerry Garcia at all?

 

[7NATOR]

Nah Zas' time stops are an actual part of gameplay in SC6 with his curses. There's also Jotaro and Dio in various JoJo games and Hades Izanami works similarly. Geras is also a go to example for good reason.

With Byleth it's really as simple as only letting them use DP a limited number of times per stock like DP has a limited amount of uses per map in Three Houses.

Ahh I didn't know that. I actually only played SC6 during the beta. I want to get it eventually though. I only saw all the Super moves from that game (Including Zas), so I just assumed the Time Manipulation was just Cinematic like Usual

I Knew of Jotaro and Dio, but I did not know Hades Izanami used Time Manipulation also. I remember someone on Gamefaqs that would push for her all the time. Blazblue does have alot of unique characters with unique Mechanics.

 

[PeridotGX]

I didn't think you'd have the nerve to insult Gex like that, but okay.

It's Gex Night already? Hasn't it only been 12 hours since the last one?

not complaining, just making an observation.

 

[I.D.]

I'unno how difficult it'd be to program something like this, but this seems like it could be an interesting way to implement future-predicting/time-changing shenanigans via either a counter or a Final Smash.

During the attack, the enemy directly controls the red version of S.F. but cannot hurt or be hurt by you, and the blue version follows their red counterpart's movements perfectly but with a second's delay. It also can still interact with the player that initiated the time-counter. The time-attack ends the moment the blue player is attacked, interrupting the intended path they intended to take to follow the red version.

Honestly, this doesn't sound like something Sakurai (or most people) would ever implement or they would give up on it after a few playtests simply because it's super confusing for the player on the receiving end, especially from the perspective of a more casual player. It certainly doesn't like fun at least. And if it something that happens on the regular then fighting against a character like this would be like playing a different game altogether.

I also feel the compulsory need to point out that's not how King Crimson works.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly, this doesn't sound like something Sakurai (or most people) would ever implement or they would give up on it after a few playtests simply because it's super confusing for the player on the receiving end, especially from the perspective of a more casual player.

It'd be confusing for both players really. Not ideal for a fighting game.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I have to try out Three Houses. The only other FE game I've ever played was Awakening, and that was years ago. Is the gameplay of Three Houses like Awakening where it's a top down, move your character across the board kinda thingy? Forget what genre of games it's called lol.

I don't hate Byleth, and anyone still salty over it has to let go and move on. They're here to stay. I've been more and more interested in trying out FE, I just haven't got around to doing so.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I have to try out Three Houses. The only other FE game I've ever played was Awakening, and that was years ago. Is the gameplay of Three Houses like Awakening where it's a top down, move your character across the board kinda thingy? Forget what genre of games it's called lol.

I don't hate Byleth, and anyone still salty over it has to let go and move on. They're here to stay. I've been more and more interested in trying out FE, I just haven't got around to doing so.

Very true. I still hope someone makes a Monster Hunter mod to go over Byleth though so I can instantly be about that.

 

[MooMew64]

all the negative byleth talk earlier made him sad

look what you guys did
now he's sad
y'all are mean, he tries his best.

Spoiler

Obviously I respect that not everyone loved Byleth, but does it really need to be brought up constantly even almost 6+ months later?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I have to try out Three Houses. The only other FE game I've ever played was Awakening, and that was years ago. Is the gameplay of Three Houses like Awakening where it's a top down, move your character across the board kinda thingy? Forget what genre of games it's called lol.

It's called a tactical RPG, and yes, all mainline Fire Emblem games are like this. (Well, you can play in 3rd person but that's more than a bit of a handicap.) To be honest, I'd say that Fire Emblem: Three Houses is at least just as good as Fire Emblem: Awakening, and I'm leaning towards it being better.

all the negative byleth talk earlier made him sad

Eh, I don't think we're being super negative about him. It's mostly that someone wished his moveset was taken into a different direction, which isn't a particularly uncommon sentiment with Smash characters, particularly the older ones, but this time it sparked an argument on whether or not that would have been boring for some reason.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

A few things I think should be considered:

1) Since that Famitsu column where Sakurai pointed out the struggles of making distanced development for Smash, where he mentioned "working with publishers". Awhile back, I went over the difference between publisher and developer, and how the term itself has meaning within the context. There were a few important sentences.




A few things to note...Nintendo is mentioned separately from "publishers". Developers like Intelligent Systems or GameFreak are not considered publishers, but larger companies like Namco, Capcom, or Square Enix are (think of the meeting for Hero). There are plenty of publishers, so this isn't specifically those 3 companies, but it should be noted that, at the very least, we're looking at at least 2 publishers that aren't Nintendo, ergo, there's likely at least 2 3rd parties. I would say it's more likely that it's 50/50 3:3, though I don't have anything to base that on. It's a feeling I have, and that's subject to change in either direction if assist trophy/mii costumes are on the table for "upgrades" or legitimately off the table. (It can be argued that linguistic differences mean that "publishers" may not be indicate a certain amount of companies involved, though I believe that the context suggests it's not a totally unfair assessment. This may simply be up to personal opinion)

2) I think that it's highly likely that a new company will be included in Smash by the time we get Challenger Pack 11. This doesn't really narrow anything down, but I think, if it's a Japanese gaming company, companies like Koei Tecmo or ArcSystemWorks are in the mix. However, I would also argue that any company with a playable character in that isn't from SNK is on the table as well. It seems reasonable to me to expect AT LEAST one character from a new company, and AT LEAST one character from a company already collaborating.

Atlus seems to be SMT3/5 or bust. SNK is most likely out given the wide berth the Terry pack covered. Namco has Pac-Man and Tekken covered, with Tales unaccounted for. To my knowledge, there appears to be a drop off of popularity after that, thought that doesn't disconfirm Namco by any means. Capcom and Square Enix both have substantial backlogs with untapped potential, so I wouldn't be surprised to get a character from either company (though I doubt more than one from any given company, aside from Nintendo for obvious reasons).

3) Each "Season" of Smash DLC has included at least ONE "marketing" pick as defined by the fanbase. Corrin was first, Byleth 2nd, and now Volume 2 has started with Min Min who seems further away from a "marketing" pick from the previous two, though she could arguably still be considered one. Therefore, it's possible that we could still get a "marketing" pick from Nintendo, which I could see being from Pokemon. I have to agree that games that are still unannounced may not be in a great spot to get a playable character at this point, though it's tough to say that for sure.

Characters I could see from each company, to make things more concrete:

Atlus: SMTV protagonist, Demi-fiend
SEGA- Kiryu, Arle
Capcom- Dante, Amaterasu, Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright
Namco- Lloyd Irving/Yuri Lowell, Soul Calibur, Dark Souls
Square Enix- 2B, Bravely Default, Neku Sakuraba, Geno, Lara Croft. A lot to go around here
Microsoft- Master Chief, Steve Minecraft
SNK- oof
Koei Tecmo- Ryu Hayabusa seems like their Terry, though I guess I can't rule out others
ArcSystemWorks- S(c)ol Badguy, Ragna the Bloodedgelord
Ubisoft- highly questionable based on content they already have, but Rayman probably. One would think Assassin's Creed and Rabbids costumes would come with Rayman, no?
Activision- Crash Bandicoot
Falcom- Trails in the Sky (funny acronym lmao amirite), Ys to name a few series

What do you think?

That's a great list of third party, but I would add Level 5 has a likely developper. Maybe not as likely as Capcom or Namco for example, but I don't think it's impossible. Most likely pick would be either Layton or Yokai watch, but maybe Inazume eleven could be choose, it's still pretty popular as far as I'm aware (and yes, it start as a game, not as an anime).

Also add Donchan in the Namco section.

 

[Schnee117]

all the negative byleth talk earlier made him sad

View attachment 283082
look what you guys did
now he's sad
y'all are mean, he tries his best.

Spoiler

Obviously I respect that not everyone loved Byleth, but does it really need to be brought up constantly even almost 6+ months later?

It's about the moveset instead of the usual "FE bad, Byleth bad, FE fans bad give updoots" tripe so it's not as bad as usual.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also add Donchan in the Namco section.

That feel when you can be more confident in a semi-unlikely 3rd party rhythm character than a 1st party one.

 

[MooMew64]

It's about the moveset instead of the usual "FE bad, Byleth bad, FE fans bad give updoots" tripe so it's not as bad as usual.

Ah, I see. That's an improvement at least, lol.

I love his moveset personally, but I totally respect someone not being into it. A lot of people wanted a House Leader instead, and I get that.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Eh, I don't think we're being super negative about him. It's mostly that someone wished his moveset was taken into a different direction, which isn't a particularly uncommon sentiment with Smash characters, particularly the older ones, but this time it sparked an argument on whether or not that would have been boring for some reason.

I feel this way about Mario. If you think about all of the games Mario has been in, all of the abilities he's mastered and power-ups at his disposal, it's just boring when a lot of his attacks consist of "punch, kick, kick in the air, FIREBALL, punch punch, kick."

I do like his specials because of the fact that it draws from a lot of different games; the cape from Super Mario World, F.L.U.D.D., a classic fireball.

I just wish there was more variety, and we could see Mario use more moves from his adventures instead of the most basic of fighting game moves.

 

[Guynamednelson]

instead of the most basic of fighting game moves.

And here's the problem: They want him to be a basic character so anyone can easily pick up the highly-recognized video game star.