Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RetroBro]

I don’t think I’ve actually seen hatred toward Geno recently. All that I recall being posted yesterday, for example, were factual rebuttals to arbitrary groupings of characters and the Cacomallow leak.

I’d love to talk about certain characters but conversation does seem to get shut down a bit more often depending on the characters. There are times when they get shut down, but then Gen VIII Pokemon gets discussed for the umpteenth time. Not really complaining, but that’s just what I’ve observed.

Lloyd Irving is awesome though. I really like Tales of Symphonia and Lloyd himself, so I’d probably pop off if he was a playable character...though, I can see him as a Mii Fighter again, which would make me sad.

Japan loves him. I'd imagine he's still a big possibility right now considering he has that tangible connection to Nintendo.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Doesn't he get a fire and ice sword or something? I almost always see him depicted with a red and blue pair of swords so you can play it off of that

Spoilers but yeah he does.

Empathetic towards others with the ability to attract people to them but dumb as a rock is the basic description of almost every anime protagonist known to mankind.

He's not dumb exactly. Just a different form of intelligence. The whole cup thing shows just how smart he can be.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, yeah, something like that

To be honest I always assumed Lloyd would have his standard dual swords if he gets in, but him with these 2 swords you mention would be interesting gameplay wise

Oh I meant something like spinning his blades and holstering them while asking to pick which one's hot and which one's cold

Japan loves him. I'd imagine he's still a big possibility right now considering he has that tangible connection to Nintendo.

No they don't, Japan loves Yuri Lowell so much he's officially banned from official popularity polls and they don't hold Symphonia on a pedestal like the western Tales fandom because for most of us, it was our entry point like how DQ8's Hero is the most popular skin for Hero in the west

 

[Aetheri]

Most of the complaints towards Geno I've seen recently is mostly centered toward, "We talkin about Geno AGAIN?"

 

[Teeb147]

At this point, I don't know who's gonna make it in XD

That's all

 

[RetroBro]

Oh I meant something like spinning his blades and holstering them while asking to pick which one's hot and which one's cold

No they don't, Japan loves Yuri Lowell so much he's officially banned from official popularity polls and they don't hold Symphonia on a pedestal like the western Tales fandom because for most of us, it was our entry point like how DQ8's Hero is the most popular skin for Hero in the west

https://media.eventhubs.com/images/2019/09/12_chart01.jpg

Not being able to vote for Yuri==/==Not liking Lloyd. This is a non-sequitur. It's clear that they still like Lloyd despite them not being able to vote for Yuri.

 

[chocolatejr9]

https://media.eventhubs.com/images/2019/09/12_chart01.jpg

Not being able to vote for Yuri==/==Not liking Lloyd. This is a non-sequitur. It's clear that they still like Lloyd despite them not being able to vote for Yuri.

Is that official? Because I don't know what counts as "official" anymore...

 

[CureParfait]

At this point, I don't know who's gonna make it in XD

That's all

Same here because there's a chance the seemingly obvious choices might get spirit event'd, mii costumed, or flat out not appear in Smash at all.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Still standing on my current predictions.

77: 2B
78: Crash Bandicoot
79: Geno
80: Elma
81: Gen 8 Pokemon

Bonus/82: Waluigi

 

[Cutie Gwen]

https://media.eventhubs.com/images/2019/09/12_chart01.jpg

Not being able to vote for Yuri==/==Not liking Lloyd. This is a non-sequitur. It's clear that they still like Lloyd despite them not being able to vote for Yui.

Whatever you linked is refusing to load for me but they have their own preference over Yuri, Lloyd's no longer the 'obvious' pick as he and Yuri both competing for that spot, I don't care for Yuri as I've yet to buy Vesperia nor do I want to for now and I've heard some stuff about him which I find concerning. It really depends on if Sakurai wants to cater towards Japanese Tales fans or Western Tales fans as Yuri's liked in the west too. Clearly, the solution is adding Velvet.

 

[Gribbo]

https://media.eventhubs.com/images/2019/09/12_chart01.jpg

Not being able to vote for Yuri==/==Not liking Lloyd. This is a non-sequitur. It's clear that they still like Lloyd despite them not being able to vote for Yuri.

Wasn't that just a tally of how many people were asking "plz sakuray add dis character" on the Smash Twitter? I wouldn't really use it as a metric of who's popular.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

While it’s hard to deny that Yuri is popular (I still need to play Vesperia) it should be noted that Sakurai himself said, “Who else but Lloyd?” When talking about the Tales costume in Smash.

It seems that there is a certain regard for Lloyd that other characters don’t have. I can’t really speak to anything beyond that.

Based on that, it seems as though any Tales choice would be between Yuri and Lloyd.I don’t know much about Velvet but her appearance is something that I think Nintendo would keep in mind in decision making, though I could be wrong.

 

[Blankiturayman]

I think that either Lloyd or Yuri could happen (they're probably the frontrunners) but either way with them a Tales of character seems pretty likely. They've yet to add a Bamco character after Pac-Man too. Yuri has extreme popularity given the polls but it's not like Symphonia and Lloyd by extension are forgotten by any means, in fact I'd say it's probably the first Tales thing you'll see if you don't know anything about the series. Just dunno who would've been chosen. Lloyd already set his foot in by being a Mii Costume in 4, but Yuri has the popularity + having a port on the Switch on his side. Who knows, maybe we'll get blindsided and they add Luke lol

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ok now that the message was edited and I could see the picture, that's not a poll, it was counting responses to Nintendo's tweets mentioning specific characters without showing any numbers or even if it counted multiple tweets by the same person. It didn't even guarantee the 'vote' was from someone from the appropriate region

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

pic.twitter.com/WGC6O4kygf

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) August 19, 2020

You know the drill - think of a caption

Terry trying to free Lilly from her cage.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

While it’s hard to deny that Yuri is popular (I still need to play Vesperia) it should be noted that Sakurai himself said, “Who else but Lloyd?” When talking about the Tales costume in Smash.

It seems that there is a certain regard for Lloyd that other characters don’t have. I can’t really speak to anything beyond that.

Thing is, Yuri had never made a Nintendo appearance at that point and Sakurai said that before being a lot more lax with Nintendo relations, Vesperia Definitive Edition also happened a few years ago after MASSIVE demand. Lloyd's the legacy pick and Yuri's the fan favourite, unlike with the Heroes, they can't be reduced to skins

 

[Gribbo]

Thing is, Yuri had never made a Nintendo appearance at that point and Sakurai said that before being a lot more lax with Nintendo relations, Vesperia Definitive Edition also happened a few years ago after MASSIVE demand. Lloyd's the legacy pick and Yuri's the fan favourite, unlike with the Heroes, they can't be reduced to skins

He was in Project X Zone on the 3DS. Besides, I thought Nintendo appearances weren't important?

 

[Idon]

https://media.eventhubs.com/images/2019/09/12_chart01.jpg

Not being able to vote for Yuri==/==Not liking Lloyd. This is a non-sequitur. It's clear that they still like Lloyd despite them not being able to vote for Yuri.

That poll wasn't legitimate. In fact it specifically goes to show how gullible people were in posting these unsourced polls.
Can we please stop posting it?

 

[RileyXY1]

He was in Project X Zone on the 3DS. Besides, I thought Nintendo appearances didn't matter?

It's usually seen as a courtesy, not a requirement. Oh, and we've yet to have a playable character who has made 0 appearances on Nintendo hardware, including spinoffs.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He was in Project X Zone on the 3DS. Besides, I thought Nintendo appearances didn't matter?

Huh. I really need to get those games, I always forget they exist.

We know for a matter of fact that they matter less but we don't know when exactly Sakurai started lowering 'muh nintendo relations' for the third parties, there's also the possibility that Sakurai initially started caring less because of Cloud. Cloud? One of the posterboys of the PS1, the game that made JRPGs mainstream. Tales doesn't really have that legacy as popular as it may be

 

[Gribbo]

Huh. I really need to get those games, I always forget they exist.

We know for a matter of fact that they matter less but we don't know when exactly Sakurai started lowering 'muh nintendo relations' for the third parties, there's also the possibility that Sakurai initially started caring less because of Cloud. Cloud? One of the posterboys of the PS1, the game that made JRPGs mainstream. Tales doesn't really have that legacy as popular as it may be

The Mii costume was added between Ryu and Cloud, and the interview where he mentions that it should be Lloyd came out in February 2016. What's interesting is that in a previous part of said interview, he says, regarding Cloud,

"A number of people fixate on the fact his original game was never released on a Nintendo console, but if we were to limit our choices to characters who appeared on a Nintendo console, we’d end up with Bartz from FFV or the Onion Knight from FFIII—how would that work?"

So I don't think Nintendo appearances were a big deal when he said that about Lloyd.

Also get Project X Zone 2, it fixes a lot of issues with the original and it's a fun time.

 

[SharkLord]

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1296084506613624834

Not related to speculation, but does anyone know why the switch wasn't in Brazil in the first place?

The Switch is going to Brazil

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It would be Lloyd no doubt. After all when regarding Tales, Sakursi stated "Who else but Lloyd?" And being a thing on GameCube.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The Mii costume was added between Ryu and Cloud, and the interview where he mentions that it should be Lloyd came out in February 2016. What's interesting is that in a previous part of said interview, he says, regarding Cloud,

"A number of people fixate on the fact his original game was never released on a Nintendo console, but if we were to limit our choices to characters who appeared on a Nintendo console, we’d end up with Bartz from FFV or the Onion Knight from FFIII—how would that work?"

So I don't think Nintendo appearances were a big deal when he said that about Lloyd.

Also get Project X Zone 2, it fixes a lot of issues with the original and it's a fun time.

Ok so I forgot that, I lose either way though cause of no Velvet smh

Also PXZ2 is where Kiryu and Majima get defended in court by Nick and Dante calls Vergil out for being OP in MvC3, I really need to get off my ass and fix my 3ds dpad for that

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is funny how its these funny little spin-offs that end up muddying the waters about what constitutes an appearance in a Nintendo game.

Presumably the unexpected appearances of Pyramid Head and Master Chief in the Fighter's Pass will be handwaved due to their appearances in Bomberman R & the Switch version of Minecraft.

 

[SharkLord]

It is funny how its these funny little spin-offs that end up muddying the waters about what constitutes an appearance in a Nintendo game.

Presumably the unexpected appearances of Pyramid Head and Master Chief in the Fighter's Pass will be handwaved due to their appearances in Bomberman R & the Switch version of Minecraft.

I personally don't care too much on the nitty-gritty. If their owner is willing, they have a chance. Simple as that.

 

[Schnee117]

Majima get defended in court by Nick

Phoenix defended the entire Tojo Clan and then he got hired to defend Heihachi from being framed by Shadaloo for a zombie outbreak so Shadaloo hire BB Hood to kill him.

It's amazing what fun you can have when things actually cross over properly

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Phoenix defended the entire Tojo Clan and then he got hired to defend Heihachi from being framed by Shadaloo for a zombie outbreak so Shadaloo hire BB Hood to kill him.

It's amazing what fun you can have when things actually cross over properly

Meanwhile like 90% of Smash character interactions is with characters they already heavily interact with in their home games

 

[MooMew64]

Oh heck I forgot Yakuza and Ace Attorney technically crossed over because of Project X Zone.

Video games are wild.

 

[Fatmanonice]

"Informed speculation" that he was virtually 100% convinced was happening. He went from Lloyd to Sol Badguy to Dragonborn to overall western for FP5, and he was EXTREMELY confident in that. Just like he's still extremely confident that the remaining 5 characters will be Geno, Lloyd, Dante, Master Chief and Crash.

He isn't worth listening to.

I mean, would you prefer it if I kept my theories exactly the same in the face of contrary evidence? I seem to remember you arguing with me very vehemently that the ARMS character would be a Hero situation because, despite mountains of contrary evidence, you insisted that the developers didn't care about the unique characteristics of characters and you even called things like differences in animations between characters "pedantic" despite the fact that Sakurai has shown that he practically handpicks the individual animations for characters himself. So, by your own logic, you're not worth listening to either because you were wrong and everyone should dismiss you forever because that's totally rational apparently.

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

INB4 someone points out "They're just old ads that Nintendo has private-ed for some reason." ... seriously, is it just me, or does everyone always jump to that conclusion whenever a private or unlisted video pops up on one of Nintendo's playlists? While this could be the case, the playlists...

smashboards.com

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, would you prefer it if I kept my theories exactly the same in the face of contrary evidence? I seem to remember you arguing with me very vehemently that the ARMS character would be a Hero situation because, despite mountains of contrary evidence, you insisted that the developers didn't care about the unique characteristics of characters and you even called things like differences in animations between characters "pedantic" despite the fact that Sakurai has shown that he practically handpicks the individual animations for characters himself. So, by your own logic, you're not worth listening to either because you were wrong and everyone should dismiss you forever because that's totally rational apparently.

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

INB4 someone points out "They're just old ads that Nintendo has private-ed for some reason." ... seriously, is it just me, or does everyone always jump to that conclusion whenever a private or unlisted video pops up on one of Nintendo's playlists? While this could be the case, the playlists...

smashboards.com

Can you just go away before you dox yourself again? Unlike you, cosmicB doesn't pretend to have info and spew blatant lunacy all the time

 

[Banado_Boy]

Just gonna drop my opinions regarding this Tales of Symphonia+Vesperia talk...

• Yuri’s character > Lloyd’s character
• Yuri’s moveset potential < Lloyd’s moveset potential

Love both games and I’d be fine with either, but my preference leans a bit more towards Yuri, just for the possibility of hearing Ring a Bell and Fury Sparks in his trailer.

 

[Schnee117]

Oh heck I forgot Yakuza and Ace Attorney technically crossed over because of Project X Zone.

Video games are wild.

PxZ is a whole other level.
You got Segata Sanshiro in there of all characters.

 

[CannonStreak]

Can you just go away before you dox yourself again? Unlike you, cosmicB doesn't pretend to have info and spew blatant lunacy all the time

Hey, not that I am on Fatman's side, but I believe that was uncalled for, no matter how true you think that is.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It is funny how its these funny little spin-offs that end up muddying the waters about what constitutes an appearance in a Nintendo game.

Presumably the unexpected appearances of Pyramid Head and Master Chief in the Fighter's Pass will be handwaved due to their appearances in Bomberman R & the Switch version of Minecraft.

I remember seeing something about a Halo game on the 3Ds. Was I bamboozled or is that actually a thing?

 

[RetroBro]

That poll wasn't legitimate. In fact it specifically goes to show how gullible people were in posting these unsourced polls.
Can we please stop posting it?

What makes it illegitimate for knowledge's sake? It says it takes "data" from official Nintendo comments?

Also my point still stands that liking Yuri doesn't mean people in Japan don't like Lloyd lmfao.

 

[SKX31]

Oh, I can kinda answer that one.

Around the N64 era, Nintendo had partnered with Gradiente to bring their consoles over here - then later struck another deal with Latamel.

After the Wii, Nintendo discontinued all parnerships regarding their games and consoles over here - meaning the only way to buy physical copies of stuff was from stores that directly imported them. This, in turn, made the prices shoot way up and even made certain pieces of software downright unavailable here - like the 3DS Pokémon Red, Blue and Yellow releases for the VC.

Overall, an official release is really nice for us! It means Brazilians probably won't have to pay three, sometimes four times the price for games.

Well, that's really good. Didn't Nintendo open up the official Brazilian IG account (and a separate LatAm Spanish account) a year or so ago?

Anyhow, it's nice to see Nintendo making concerted efforts in more regions.

PxZ is a whole other level.
You got Segata Sanshiro in there of all characters.

Shame that Bayonetta (and the animal characters) weren't in the first PXZ games, but eh, it's not the end of the world. Should a PXZ 3 happen somehow, those characters should honestly be a priority because it'd shake things up a bit.

I remember seeing something about a Halo game on the 3Ds. Was I bamboozled or is that actually a thing?

There was a proposed Halo test build on the DS. Scrapped (Edit: And its validity is contested, keep that in mind), but proves the point that hypotheoretically Halo games could work on the Switch.

 

[Blankiturayman]

Just gonna drop my opinions regarding this Tales of Symphonia+Vesperia talk...

• Yuri’s character > Lloyd’s character
• Yuri’s moveset potential < Lloyd’s moveset potential

Love both games and I’d be fine with either, but my preference leans a bit more towards Yuri, just for the possibility of hearing Fury Sparks in his trailer.

I hope that no matter the character we can get Fury Sparks added. Tales has many good battle themes.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Well, that's really good. Didn't Nintendo open up the official Brazilian IG account (and a separate LatAm Spanish account) a year or so ago?

Anyhow, it's nice to see Nintendo making concerted efforts in more regions.

I think so, yes. Brazil, for marketing purposes, is often placed separate from other LatAm countries due to the difference in language. So that could mean a bigger effort in other South America countries, too.

Edit: Not to mention size. Last I checked, Brazil was like, top 5 or 7 countries when it comes to the amount of consumers for video games.

 

[Dr. Yatagarasu]

What makes it illegitimate for knowledge's sake? It says it takes "data" from official Nintendo comments?

Also my point still stands that liking Yuri doesn't mean people in Japan don't like Lloyd lmfao.

I'm talking about only for 5chan now. Other places has different tastes.

I don't see other names of Gen 8 pokemon. Cinderace 90%. Maybe Rillaboom once a while? Never seen Toxtricity.

As for Tales rep talk, Lloyd's name always starts the conversations. But from what I see, they aren't really that interested in Tales characters in general. So their consensus is like, if Tales gets a rep, Lloyd would be the one to please Western fans. Some Tales fans throw names like Cress, Yuri and Alphen as a counter. Don't really see Velvet.

Reimu is very controversial in 5chan. Everytime her name pops up, the thread heats up quickly. The main followers of Reimu are from YouTube and Twitter clusters.
She's not really a meme pick. Neither Saber. I don't think there's no such thing as meme characters like the West thinks.

Going to leave this here - you're correct that liking Yuri doesn't mean not liking Lloyd, but it's clear that the conversation around Tales in Japan is a bit more mixed at least in regards to its representative than i would've thought.