Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

Personally I think Donkey Kong or more likely Yoshi would be cut as well. Both do have established series, but DK's is looking to be entering a new dormancy (the last game was early 2014 for DK and there is no work being done on DKR3) and Yoshi is having a bit of an identity crisis. DK I can easily see them keeping, but if they cut OG8 characters and not Yoshi I'd be super surprised. No offense to the Dino but the only thing he's really known for these days is being Mario's companion, not an independent series' star.
On that note...
Which Melee and Brawl characters do y'all think would be cut in the event of a reboot? My guesses are below.

Spoiler: melee/brawl cut vets, hypothetically

Melee:
Brawl:

That's just what I think- they'll either be cut for irrelevance, being in a weird copyright state (Snake), or being not as "needed" because of other characters. (I don't personally want many cuts but this is just what I think)

Disagree honestly. Donkey Kong is still an active series and he does appear in Mario spin-offs keeping him alive. Also given King K. Rool's revival I can't see them just doing that tbh. Given K. Rool's return I can see a third DKCR game being made with him and the kremlings being the final villains of the trilogy.

Given Banjo's return too its certain the bear and bird duo will be getting a new game in no time as well. See what inclusions has done to characters being added to Smash. Fire Emblem for example wouldn't be as it is today if not added nor would Pit and Kid Icarus get the recognition that it has.

Can't really speak for Yoshi tho.

 

[TheCJBrine]

These cuts sound like the new Smash would focus entirely on promotion if they happened.

 

[andree123]

Who agrees that of the remaining two DLC fighters that these are the most likely?

Crash Bandicoot
Dark Souls rep (Sleeper pick)
Doom Slayer
Heihachi
Lloyd Irving
Resident Evil rep
Ryu Hayabusa
Phoenix Wright

I agree 100% on Lloyd, because he and the franchise are still missing in ssbu.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

they'll either be cut for irrelevance

You do realize irrelevance is no longer an argument afterinclusion right?

 

[toonito]

I think if we were to have gotten Monster Hunter he would had been revealed with Rathalos.

You also really underestimate Phoenix Wright's popularity.

Dante's creator also deconfirmed him.

That's fair.

I just think if it came down to Resident Evil vs. Ace Attorney Resident Evil is more likely.

 

[osby]

You do realize irrelevance is no longer an argument afterinclusion right?

It still is, actually. Not every dead character has the vocal support behind them like K.Rool.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That's fair.

I just think if it came down to Resident Evil vs. Ace Attorney Resident Evil is more likely.

I do agree on that. Two of the following I'm predicting is either Lloyd/Resident Evil rep or Lloyd/Crash at this point. For some reason I'm slowly leaning more towards the latter.

 

[toonito]

I do agree on that. Two of the following I'm predicting is either Lloyd/Resident Evil rep or Lloyd/Crash at this point. For some reason I'm slowly leaning more towards the latter.

This is my list of characters for the Fighter Pass:

My characters to watch for Ultimate's Fighter Pass (assuming DLC is all 3rd Party)

Bethesda
Doom Slayer (Doom)
Dragonborn (Skyrim)

SNK
Terry Bogard (Fatal Fury)
Kyo Kusanagi (King of Fighters)
Nakoruru (Samurai Showdown)

Activision
Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)

Koei Tecmo
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Kasumi (Dead or Alive)

Level 5
Jibanyan (Yo-Kai Watch)
Professor Layton (Professor Layton)

Ubisoft
Ezio Auditore (Assassin's Creed)
Rayman (Rayman)

Capcom
Jill Valentine or Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil)
Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter)
Dante (Devil May Cry)

Namco
Heihachi, Jin, or Kazuya Mishima (Tekken)
Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
Siegfried/Nightmare (Soul Edge/Calibur)
Solaire or Chosen Undead (Dark Souls)

Konami
Frogger (Frogger)

I'm predicting two of these three: Resident Evil, Ninja Gaiden, and Doom.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Spoiler: The quote's decently long, as is my post.

Personally I think Donkey Kong or more likely Yoshi would be cut as well. Both do have established series, but DK's is looking to be entering a new dormancy (the last game was early 2014 for DK and there is no work being done on DKR3) and Yoshi is having a bit of an identity crisis. DK I can easily see them keeping, but if they cut OG8 characters and not Yoshi I'd be super surprised. No offense to the Dino but the only thing he's really known for these days is being Mario's companion, not an independent series' star.
On that note...
Which Melee and Brawl characters do y'all think would be cut in the event of a reboot? My guesses are below.

Spoiler: melee/brawl cut vets, hypothetically

Melee:
Brawl:

That's just what I think- they'll either be cut for irrelevance, being in a weird copyright state (Snake), or being not as "needed" because of other characters. (I don't personally want many cuts but this is just what I think)

I don't see them cutting either character. True, their solo series are in weird places right now, but they are still a pretty big part of the Super Mario series. Plus seniority does add some weight to the decision, especially for widely liked characters like these two.

As for who else would be cut (Assuming the roster is being throttled):

Spoiler: pics.

Danger:
Almost Garunteed:

Most of these characters are from dead series, or series with a bunch of fighters already. The Mii's rely on whether or not the Mii Maker is a thing in the next console, Cloud has licensing issues, and characters like King K. Rool and Ridley are from smaller series, so they're up in the air as well. I didn't mention some characters like Banjo & Kazooie because I lack enough knowledge to properly rate them.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

You really think K. Rool and Ridley will be cut after all the fan demand they got? Why suddenly cut them after the fans got what they wanted after many years? I said it before Smash has a history of making characters and franchises active or popular again.

Without Smash. Fire Emblem wouldn't be as it is today especially in the west.

Without Smash. People probably would had forgotten what Kid Icarus was.

As a result we could very well expect a third DKCR game with K. Rool being the main villain and appearing in Mario spin-offs. Given Banjo too eventually a new game as well.

You also remember whenandgot cut from Sm4sh? Due to heavy demand they were brought back as DLC. I can only imagine the same going for here. I doubt Sakurai and the team would make that same mistake again.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

As it really pains me to say it, I really think Palutena will be one of the lot of characters removed from the reboot of the next installment just due to the fact she is already unrelavent and she is unimportant compared to most of the cast in Smash. It will suck, but I will miss her as she is one of my mains.

like the idea that Snake was supposed to be a much larger character in Brawl, but was scaled down.

Wait... WHAT?!! I never heard of this.

There is no such thing as locks.
The closest thing we've had to a lock was probably Ken since the introduction of echo fighters, and even I wasn't that sure of that.
Doom Slayer is possible but not a lock by any means.

Honestly the only lock that everyone and their mommy guessed correctly in Ultimate was the Inklings.

Of all the N64 veterans I'd say the most likely to go would be

I know Fox and his franchise haven't been that relavent outside of Smash over the years, but what in the world makes you think they would ever remove him from Smash? Star Fox is in a league just above F-Zero and Mother and is Miyamoto's baby so I think there is no way Fox is ever getting removed from the roster.

I can't really speak for Yoshi tho.

Believe me, Yoshi is staying as long as Smash is alive.

Just to be clear, no matter who get's cut in the future, the Original 8 and Luigi will always be in Smash Bros. no matter what. It's debatable though if Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, and Ness will be in all future Smash games after Ultimate. But they haven't gotten cut within 20 years of Smash's existence so I could see them coming back for the reboot.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Just to be clear, no matter who get's cut in the future, the Original 8 and Luigi will always be in Smash Bros. no matter what. It's debatable though if Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, and Ness will be in all future Smash games after Ultimate. But they haven't gotten cut within 20 of Smash's existence so I could see them coming back for the reboot.

I mean in Jigglypuff's and Ness' case. Ness was almost replaced by Lucas in Melee and Jigglypuff was tended to be cut in Brawl but added at the last minute.

Shows even the N64 veterans aren't safe.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Frankly after the popularity Captain Falcon has amassed after his Smash debut, he’s practically become a Smash staple and cutting him would be met with a lot of ire from the Smash fan base. Doesn’t matter if F-Zero hasn’t had a game in over 15 years anymore.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Frankly after the popularity Captain Falcon has amassed after his Smash debut, he’s practically become a Smash staple and cutting him would be met with a lot of ire from the Smash fan base. Doesn’t matter if F-Zero hasn’t had a game in over 15 years anymore.

The same can be also said forand

Like why suddenly cut these two especially after the almost two decade of fan demand just to suddenly give them the boot? Remember what that did withandwho eventually became DLC in Sm4sh?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't see Olimar getting cut if Miyamoto cares, or if they finally get Pikmin 4 out.

I mean in Jigglypuff's and Ness' case. Ness was almost replaced by Lucas in Melee and Jigglypuff was tended to be cut in Brawl but added at the last minute.

Shows even the N64 veterans aren't safe.

For Ness, to be fair, Sakurai thought Mother 3 would release in the West, which is why Lucas was in Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

Who agrees that of the remaining two DLC fighters that these are the most likely?

Crash Bandicoot
Dark Souls rep (Sleeper pick)
Doom Slayer
Heihachi
Lloyd Irving
Resident Evil rep
Ryu Hayabusa
Phoenix Wright

These are certainly the ideal frontrunners for the last 2 spots in Fighter Pass, but I'm willing to say a Musou rep and a Soulcalibur rep are not too far off from that list either.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

These are certainly the ideal frontrunners for the last 2 spots in Fighter Pass, but I'm willing to say a Musou rep and a Soulcalibur rep are not too far off from that list either.

I really hope. I really would love for Nightmare to be in coming with an Siegfried costume.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The same can be also said forand

Like why suddenly cut these two especially after the almost two decade of fan demand just to suddenly give them the boot? Remember what that did withandwho eventually became DLC in Sm4sh?

Don’t forget the demand for Ice Climbers, Wolf and Snake after they were cut from 4 and didn’t return as DLC. heck, even Pichu had a lot of staunch supporters clamoring for its return.

People form strong attachments to Smash characters once they get in, it just has that effect you know?

 

[osby]

This is a newcomer speculation thread, why we return to cuts talk every other page?

These are certainly the ideal frontrunners for the last 2 spots in Fighter Pass, but I'm willing to say a Musou rep and a Soulcalibur rep are not too far off from that list either.

Makes me wonder how surprising the last two characters will be. Unlike Smash 4, this time DLC seems to get increasingly safer with each reveal.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Don’t forget the demand for Ice Climbers, Wolf and Snake after they were cut from 4 and didn’t return as DLC. heck, even Pichu had a lot of staunch supporters clamoring for its return.

People form strong attachments to Smash characters once they get in, it just has that effect you know?

Couldn't agree anymore.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anyway, what character would prove to be a huge surprise to you if they’re announced? Barring popularly talked about and therefore “expected” characters like Doom Slayer, Hayabusa, Lloyd, RE/PW character, and Porky.

Who would be the surprise curveball for you?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I agree with Michael the Spikester that Ridley and K. Rool ain't getting cut in the future due to how long fans have been requesting them. Especially K. Rool because he was MIA for 10 years before Ultimate and the last mainline DK game he was in outside of the spin offs was in DK64 all the way back in 1999. Nintendo would be shooting them selfs in the foot by removing K. Rool after hearing how many people wanted him back in gaming.

Frankly after the popularity Captain Falcon has amassed after his Smash debut, he’s practically become a Smash staple and cutting him would be met with a lot of ire from the Smash fan base. Doesn’t matter if F-Zero hasn’t had a game in over 15 years anymore.

At a greater extent that exact same thing can be said for Fox.

 

[Dust319]

I don't see them cutting either character. True, their solo series are in weird places right now, but they are still a pretty big part of the Super Mario series. Plus seniority does add some weight to the decision, especially for widely liked characters like these two.

As for who else would be cut (Assuming the roster is being throttled):

Spoiler: pics.

Danger:
Almost Garunteed:

Most of these characters are from dead series, or series with a bunch of fighters already. The Mii's rely on whether or not the Mii Maker is a thing in the next console, Cloud has licensing issues, and characters like King K. Rool and Ridley are from smaller series, so they're up in the air as well. I didn't mention some characters like Banjo & Kazooie because I lack enough knowledge to properly rate them.

I don’t think Ike would get the axe, as he won the first Fire Emblem Heroes poll by a landslide.

Why all the Brawl newcomers?
Olimar and Wario wouldn’t go anywhere.
Pit should stay at least too.

Also if you’re cutting down characters Marth or Lucina would need to go, or else be further distinguished to justify having both. Alternatively, another fire emblem character could replace one of them.
If they drop the Mii fighters, Wii fit trainer would have to stay, as you need something or someone to represent that era.
Unless we get someone from ninja Gaiden I don’t think you can drop Greninja and Shiek. Definitely one or the other.

I still think they’ll come up with some other way to expand the series in a different way rather than just remaking it with fewer characters.

 

[osby]

Fans: "Sakurai can't possibly add more clones without making the ones we had more unique, it's literally impossible!"

Sakurai, adding Chrom without touching Lucina: "Observe."

 

[Flyboy]

Smash is fun because you get to play as a bunch of characters that mean something to someone.

"Function over form" is the type of mentality that killed Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite, man.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You also remember whenandgot cut from Sm4sh? Due to heavy demand they were brought back as DLC. I can only imagine the same going for here. I doubt Sakurai and the team would make that same mistake again.

True, but this is going to apply to everyone especially after Ultimate. I won't say much more though, it's gonna derail the thread.

Also if you’re cutting down characters Marth or Lucina would need to go, or else be further distinguished to justify having both. Alternatively, another fire emblem character could replace one of them.

Cutting Marth, but keeping the rest of the Fire Emblem characters would be like cutting Mario, but keeping the other Mario characters. It'd just be weird.

This is a newcomer speculation thread, why we return to cuts talk every other page?

I dunno maybe we're bored or something? Our discussions are pretty cyclical. We should get back on track though.

Erm...What's everyone's favorite dark horse picks?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Who agrees that of the remaining two DLC fighters that these are the most likely?

Crash Bandicoot
Dark Souls rep (Sleeper pick)
Doom Slayer
Heihachi
Lloyd Irving
Resident Evil rep
Ryu Hayabusa
Phoenix Wright

A lot of people here seem to think that these are "safe" picks, but I bet that for people outside of the Smash bubble, Jill, Crash and Doom Slayer would all be pretty big curveballs.

Honestly, even if the only ones I have some connection to are Crash and Phoenix, I'm fine with anyone from this list. They all seem pretty interesting and would bring cool stuff with them. If this really is "playing it safe", then I can't say I really mind.

Besides, we're starting to run out of options for curveballs too. Save for maybe a Sony-owned character, I really don't think we can get a bigger surprise reveal at this point in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Makes me wonder how surprising the last two characters will be. Unlike Smash 4, this time DLC seems to get increasingly safer with each reveal.

With the amount of characters this thread usually talks about, a huge curveball pick would have to be another Konami rep since no one really expects them to get another fighter and would somewhat make Mii Costume Theory right but make everyone's expectations of it wrong at the same time.

There's also potential in a Devolver Digital rep since they're heavily involved in the Indie scene, and with the good amount of focus Nintendo has for Indies on the Switch, it'd be pretty surprising to see them ask Devolver for a character over the other Indie characters that have been speculated around here.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

You know guys, with the next Smash probably being a reboot and there really only being a select few characters I really want left as Ultimate has given me almost every character I ever wanted, I think Ultimate will be my last radio. The speculation scene ain't going to look so pretty next game as probably half the roster will be cut and more people will be hungry for highly requested characters. Ultimate is the perfect love latter to all of us old time Smash fans so I think this game will be my last stand for the series.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't think we're getting a new Smash. No seriously, ever. Like, I think they'll just port over Ultimate and continue building on the crazy foundation they already have. After all since this game has every character any Smash that comes out after it and doesn't is just going to feel inferior. And I think they know that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know guys, with the next Smash probably being a reboot and there really only being a select few characters I really want left as Ultimate has given me almost every character I ever wanted, I think Ultimate will be my last radio. The speculation scene ain't going to look so pretty next game as probably half the roster will be cut and more people will be hungry for highly requested characters. Ultimate is the perfect love latter to all of us old time Smash fans so I think this game will be my last stand for the series.

We don't know that this is what's going to happen. It's just what seems like the best next step to us. We who know nothing.

I don't think we're getting a new Smash. No seriously, ever. Like, I think they'll just port over Ultimate and continue building on the crazy foundation they already have. After all since this game has every character any Smash that comes out after it and doesn't is just going to feel inferior. And I think they know that.

I still think they'll do what they can to make it feel like a new game by changing the artstyle, adding a bunch of characters and stages, and replacing things like World of Light with other things or revamped versions of them.

It also wouldn't surprise me if they redid all of the character models again in order to future-proof them.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If Ultimate does get ported to the Switch’s successor with no cuts, they could expand on Adventure Mode by having the DLC characters appear in WoL officially and not just “Unlocked DLC fighters!” After saving 10 people

Maybe add some new areas, Spirits and bosses too

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I don't think we're getting a new Smash. No seriously, ever. Like, I think they'll just port over Ultimate and continue building on the crazy foundation they already have. After all since this game has every character any Smash that comes out after it and doesn't is just going to feel inferior. And I think they know that.

Hope your right because ending this series with Ultimate would be a really good note. At most just keep porting with additional characters whether Base or DLC.

 

[Zem-raj]

I don't think we're getting a new Smash. No seriously, ever. Like, I think they'll just port over Ultimate and continue building on the crazy foundation they already have. After all since this game has every character any Smash that comes out after it and doesn't is just going to feel inferior. And I think they know that.

Plus for Bandai Namco, Sega (and ATLUS), Capcom, Konami, Square Enix, Microsoft (and Rare Ltd.), and whoever else gets a character added, it's basically free money and advertising.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Who would be the surprise curveball for you?

Already said it but an SNK rep most notably a female fighter if that rumor is true. Nakoruru most notably.

 

[Ridrool64]

Those third parties are probably the reason WHY we're looking at a new game instead of Super Special Smash Bros. Ultimate. (or Ultimate Great Fray Smash Brothers Special).

There's 6.5 to go through: Konami, SEGA, Capcom, Bandai-Namco, Square Enix, maybe Atlus, and Microsoft (Rare was bought out and is fully owned by Microsoft, but the Sega that bought Atlus, Sega Sammy Holdings, =/= the Sega that makes Sonic games. They're both subsidiaries of Sega Sammy, though whether or not that means there's a distinction between Persona & Sonic/Bayo or not depends on the person who thinks it matters.) and all of them have more than just Fighters in the game, so everything that contains their content requires relicensing. And don't forget Ubisoft, Yacht Club Games, WayForward, The Tetris Company, and more third parties involved with Smash that do not have Fighters. ALL of them have to be relicensed.

The main appeal of an Ultimate Special Edition is that we won't have to worry about cuts ever again, even if they are moderately limited let alone a mass culling of the cast to its bare necessities. And for first parties? Feasible. For third? Think again.

That being said, which newcomers are more likely for a Smash Ultimate Special Edition, and which are more likely for Smash 6? If there would even be a difference?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That being said, which newcomers are more likely for a Smash Ultimate Special Edition, and which are more likely for Smash 6? If there would even be a difference?

Not really. It would mostly dictate how many newcomers there will be rather than who they are.

EDIT: Though I suppose how many does affect who...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Those third parties are probably the reason WHY we're looking at a new game instead of Super Special Smash Bros. Ultimate. (or Ultimate Great Fray Smash Brothers Special).

There's 6.5 to go through: Konami, SEGA, Capcom, Bandai-Namco, Square Enix, maybe Atlus, and Microsoft (Rare was bought out and is fully owned by Microsoft, but the Sega that bought Atlus, Sega Sammy Holdings, =/= the Sega that makes Sonic games. They're both subsidiaries of Sega Sammy, though whether or not that means there's a distinction between Persona & Sonic/Bayo or not depends on the person who thinks it matters.) and all of them have more than just Fighters in the game, so everything that contains their content requires relicensing. And don't forget Ubisoft, Yacht Club Games, WayForward, The Tetris Company, and more third parties involved with Smash that do not have Fighters. ALL of them have to be relicensed.

The main appeal of an Ultimate Special Edition is that we won't have to worry about cuts ever again, even if they are moderately limited let alone a mass culling of the cast to its bare necessities. And for first parties? Feasible. For third? Think again.

That being said, which newcomers are more likely for a Smash Ultimate Special Edition, and which are more likely for Smash 6? If there would even be a difference?

I’d say Rex and Spring Man, with their respective Mii Costumes (and AT for the latter) being removed. Possibly an Astral Chain character, Three Houses character, and/or Euden too. And Dixie Kong and/or Octoling if neither makes the cut for DLC this time around. And that’s just first party.

Third party... is up to almost anyone really

..actually if it’s a port they can keep the Rex and Spring Man costumes if they’re base for Ultimate Deluxe. Just cut Spring Man’s AT.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Anyway, what character would prove to be a huge surprise to you if they’re announced? Barring popularly talked about and therefore “expected” characters like Doom Slayer, Hayabusa, Lloyd, RE/PW character, and Porky.

Who would be the surprise curveball for you?

To be specific:Viewtiful Joe, Scorpion, Spyro, Rayman, Master Chief,
In General: a Niche character, a Non video game character, and a Sony owned character

 

[YoshiandToad]

Personally I think Donkey Kong or more likely Yoshi would be cut as well. Both do have established series, but DK's is looking to be entering a new dormancy (the last game was early 2014 for DK and there is no work being done on DKR3) and Yoshi is having a bit of an identity crisis. DK I can easily see them keeping, but if they cut OG8 characters and not Yoshi I'd be super surprised. No offense to the Dino but the only thing he's really known for these days is being Mario's companion, not an independent series' star.
On that note...
Which Melee and Brawl characters do y'all think would be cut in the event of a reboot? My guesses are below.

Spoiler: melee/brawl cut vets, hypothetically

Melee:
Brawl:

That's just what I think- they'll either be cut for irrelevance, being in a weird copyright state (Snake), or being not as "needed" because of other characters. (I don't personally want many cuts but this is just what I think)

I'll eat my hat if either Yoshi or DK ever get cut.

Donkey Kong is the fourth biggest series Nintendo own right after Mario, Pokémon and Zelda and Yoshi, despite a series identity crisis is a ridiculously popular character who's series is still more successful than both Starfox and Metroid.