Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Will]

What makes you so certain?

probably a healthy amount of self-confidence

 

[Twin Shot]

I'm pretty certain that these Doom ports are the surprise Pete Hines was talking about and not Smash.

I don’t think that would dismiss this, though:

GC: This will just take a second, I can guarantee he’s going to give a very short answer to this.

PH: [laughs]

GC: Have you spoken to them about Smash Bros.?

PH: Oh yeah.

GC: I see. Well, let’s leave it at that. Thanks very much for your time.

Metro (source interview):https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/13/pete-hines-bethesda-interview-we-do-believe-in-single-player-7939215/

 

[RileyXY1]

Well, Bethesda was asked about Smash. We don't know what characters they were negotiating for, although Doomguy would make the most sense, logically.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don’t think that would dismiss this, though:

GC: This will just take a second, I can guarantee he’s going to give a very short answer to this.

PH: [laughs]

GC: Have you spoken to them about Smash Bros.?

PH: Oh yeah.

GC: I see. Well, let’s leave it at that. Thanks very much for your time.

Metro (source interview):https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/13/pete-hines-bethesda-interview-we-do-believe-in-single-player-7939215/

I feel like even hinting at that would be breaking NDA, but that's just me

and wasn't Skyrim on Switch as of like two years ago? For all we know they could have negotiated for Dovahkiin

 

[Deleted member]

Yesterday, Dragon Quest spirits were supposedly leaked off of Nintendo's site, but now it appears they've been taken down today. 1 of the spirits that interested me was 1 involving a group of characters in a similar fashion to the Phantom Thieves spirit.

There's a lot of things to infer with that group spirit, though I probably wouldn't say that it means every character in the fighter pass must have a group spirit. My main takeaways from it are either that making spirit battles with every individual character from that group would take up more time than necessary so they bundled them altogether or they wanted to find a way to put Hero in a spirit battle so they decided to do the same thing they did with Joker. With Hero releasing very soon, I'm curious if the former turns out to be true and we don't get spirit battles for every character in that group.

As for Bethesda saying "oh yeah", I believe they offered Nintendo some characters they own to be put in Smash rather than Nintendo going to them and asking for a character for the Fighter Pass. Whether if Nintendo are on board with it or not is certainly the question that will be answered in the following months to come.

 

[Icedragonadam]

The fact that Bethesda talked about being in talks about Smash makes me believe even more that Doom Slayer is not in. If he was in. I doubt Bethesda would even be allowed to mention something like that in an NDA. Heck all this supposed teasing makes me skeptical about it since Nintendo has been trying to keep a tight lip on things.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don’t think that would dismiss this, though:

GC: This will just take a second, I can guarantee he’s going to give a very short answer to this.

PH: [laughs]

GC: Have you spoken to them about Smash Bros.?

PH: Oh yeah.

GC: I see. Well, let’s leave it at that. Thanks very much for your time.

Metro (source interview):https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/13/pete-hines-bethesda-interview-we-do-believe-in-single-player-7939215/

I feel like this disconfirms him actually.

 

[RileyXY1]

I feel like this disconfirms him actually.

If this happens then that means that the Mii Costume Theory is real.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If this happens then that means that the Mii Costume Theory is real.

I... don't see how. Yes, Doom Slayer getting in WOULD disconfirm Mii Costume Theory, but Mii Costume Theory CAN also be false even without Doom Slayer. Anything can happen and it's all up to Sakurai's discretion in the end.

 

[Icedragonadam]

If this happens then that means that the Mii Costume Theory is real.

Well it won't be long until Hero and Mii Costume Wave 2 arrives(which I believe will be Monday). So it will either be bolstered or thrown in the garbage.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The fact that Bethesda talked about being in talks about Smash makes me believe even more that Doom Slayer is not in. If he was in. I doubt Bethesda would even be allowed to mention something like that in an NDA. Heck all this supposed teasing makes me skeptical about it since Nintendo has been trying to keep a tight lip on things.

I feel like this disconfirms him actually.

You have to take in the time frame that this was said too, though. We haven't heard anything Smash from them since. No one has asked recently, sure, but it's telling that Phil Spencer was absolutely fine spitting out hopes for Banjo until recently where they got real tight lipped about it. And teasing? Everyone teases. Nintendo's NDA's never say "oh you can't say anything, ever, under any circumstances, at all, or we'll sue you" c'mon guys. Be real. This neither confirms nor deconfirm him. Y'all are grasping at straws on both sides at this point.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Posted this in another thread but it was about Crash sooooo

Speaking as one not too familiar with her character, could they honestly get away with Dixie Kong being an echo of Diddy? I hear their abilities are too different to do it justice, but if she was Ken levels of unique could it work? I don't know if that's what Sakurai would have wanted when originally envisioning her and Diddy as a tag team in Brawl, but maybe she could have that gun she uses in Returns instead of Diddy's, helicopter hair for up special, throws where she uses her hair to have grabbed the opponent and some attacks using her hair?

 

[Graizen]

I think Crash is in the top 5 most likely. I think Digimon is the issue of not being a game first (being Tamagotchi toys). And Reimu is way too niche. Spyro would also obviously not happen before Crash.

For multiple reasons, I think Doom Slayer, Jill/Leon, Ryu Hayabusa, Heihachi Mishima, and Crash Bandicoot are the top 5. Though Heihachi and Crash I'd rank on a lower tier.

Tamagotchi's are not Toys.
They are LCD Games.

 

[HyruleHero]

Posted this in another thread but it was about Crash sooooo

Speaking as one not too familiar with her character, could they honestly get away with Dixie Kong being an echo of Diddy? I hear their abilities are too different to do it justice, but if she was Ken levels of unique could it work? I don't know if that's what Sakurai would have wanted when originally envisioning her and Diddy as a tag team in Brawl, but maybe she could have that gun she uses in Returns instead of Diddy's, helicopter hair for up special, throws where she uses her hair to have grabbed the opponent and some attacks using her hair?

Considering the difference between Chrom and Roy I think they could get away with it. In the end Dixie Kong does play the same as Diddy minus the jet pack.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I... don't see how. Yes, Doom Slayer getting in WOULD disconfirm Mii Costume Theory, but Mii Costume Theory CAN also be false even without Doom Slayer. Anything can happen and it's all up to Sakurai's discretion in the end.

And besides, Doomguy is far from the only non-Bamco/Capcom candidate available. Hayabusa, Crash, and Frisk are still likely candidates just to name a few

 

[Rie Sonomura]

And besides, Doomguy is far from the only non-Bamco/Capcom candidate available. Hayabusa, Crash, and Frisk are still likely candidates just to name a few

And then there’s Nintendo themselves, the pool of applicable candidates increasing EXPONENTIALLY if you, like me, believe Spirits ≠ deconfirmations.

Remember that Starling image like a week ago? The Geno thread sees it as a sliver of hope despite Geno having a Spirit, as long as his Mii Costume doesn’t return. That’s just one example.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You have to take in the time frame that this was said too, though. We haven't heard anything Smash from them since. No one has asked recently, sure, but it's telling that Phil Spencer was absolutely fine spitting out hopes for Banjo until recently where they got real tight lipped about it.

Wasn't DLC reported to be finalized during September of last year though? If so then it's pretty likely to be a disconformation in my eyes. It's like when Wayforward started to campaign for Shantae right before the DLC finalization notice. If the finalization announcement was made in late October or something then I'll go ahead and assume the article means nothing.

Tamagotchi's are not Toys.
They are LCD Games.

I mean...technically they're both.

 

[andree123]

The links to the images of the leaked DQ spirits has been taken down by Nintendo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Remember that Starling image like a week ago? The Geno thread sees it as a sliver of hope despite Geno having a Spirit, as long as his Mii Costume doesn’t return. That’s just one example.

Geno is a SquareEnix rep though. I could still see him be the final DLC character, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You have to take in the time frame that this was said too, though. We haven't heard anything Smash from them since. No one has asked recently, sure, but it's telling that Phil Spencer was absolutely fine spitting out hopes for Banjo until recently where they got real tight lipped about it. And teasing? Everyone teases. Nintendo's NDA's never say "oh you can't say anything, ever, under any circumstances, at all, or we'll sue you" c'mon guys. Be real. This neither confirms nor deconfirm him. Y'all are grasping at straws on both sides at this point.

Yeah... about the NDA thing... not to bring in drama or anything but

You know how Chris Niosi was booted off the Fire Emblem Heroes/Three Houses cast? The abuse confession was just the cherry on top, but the main cause was that he broke NDA in his own discord server saying he voiced M!Byleth and the datamine showed it was true. After that and the abuse confession Nintendo cut ties with him and will replace his VO with a patch.

Tl;dr - if you break NDA, THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES. doesn’t matter with whom.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Speaking as one not too familiar with her character, could they honestly get away with Dixie Kong being an echo of Diddy? I hear their abilities are too different to do it justice, but if she was Ken levels of unique could it work?

Easily.

I think Digimon is the issue of not being a game first (being Tamagotchi toys)

If Game & Watch counts, I'm afraid Digimon does as well.

 

[RileyXY1]

If Game & Watch counts, I'm afraid Digimon does as well.

Yeah. The V-Pets are similar to a Game & Watch.

 

[N3ON]

The fact that Bethesda talked about being in talks about Smash makes me believe even more that Doom Slayer is not in. If he was in. I doubt Bethesda would even be allowed to mention something like that in an NDA. Heck all this supposed teasing makes me skeptical about it since Nintendo has been trying to keep a tight lip on things.

Just because the fans took the response of "oh yeah" and ran it into the ground doesn't mean anything was actually disclosed. Do we know if the talks progressed? Do we know if Nintendo was even receptive? If they were, which character are we getting? It's just a bunch of guessing. We don't actually know anything concrete, and that's what NDAs are created to enforce.

You have to take in the time frame that this was said too, though. We haven't heard anything Smash from them since. No one has asked recently, sure, but it's telling that Phil Spencer was absolutely fine spitting out hopes for Banjo until recently where they got real tight lipped about it. And teasing? Everyone teases. Nintendo's NDA's never say "oh you can't say anything, ever, under any circumstances, at all, or we'll sue you" c'mon guys. Be real. This neither confirms nor deconfirm him. Y'all are grasping at straws on both sides at this point.

I agree, though Phil said what... three things over three years? And only one was unprompted, two were replies. He didn't go "tight-lipped" as much as the frequency just stayed the same, he wasn't talking about Banjo that much anyway. Smash fans tend to blow things up.

Yeah... about the NDA thing... not to bring in drama or anything but

You know how Chris Niosi was booted off the Fire Emblem Heroes/Three Houses cast? The abuse confession was just the cherry on top, but the main cause was that he broke NDA in his own discord server saying he voiced M!Byleth and the datamine showed it was true. After that and the abuse confession Nintendo cut ties with him and will replace his VO with a patch.

Tl;dr - if you break NDA, THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES. doesn’t matter with whom.

Do you actually have any proof of this? Not that he told his discord he would be Byleth, that that was the primary factor in his firing.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Just because the fans took the response of "oh yeah" and ran it into the ground doesn't mean anything was actually disclosed. Do we know if the talks progressed? Do we know if Nintendo was even receptive? If they were, which character are we getting? It's just a bunch of guessing. We don't actually know anything concrete, and that's what NDAs are created to enforce.


I agree, though Phil said what... three things over three years? And only one was unprompted, two were replies. He didn't go "tight-lipped" as much as the frequency just stayed the same, he wasn't talking about Banjo that much anyway. Smash fans tend to blow things up.


Do you actually have any proof of this? Not that he told his discord he would be Byleth, that that was the primary factor in his firing.

Cristina Vee also mentioned that she worked on Three Houses and she ended up being canned & replaced soon after. So yeah, they were both fired for breaking their NDA contract.

 

[Captain Fun]

Cristina Vee also mentioned that she worked on Three Houses and she ended up being canned & replaced soo after. So yeah, they were both fired for breaking their NDA contract.

I read earlier that Vee’s case was more an issue of Nintendo going non-union with the project in the end, although I don’t know how true that is.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Posted this in another thread but it was about Crash sooooo

Speaking as one not too familiar with her character, could they honestly get away with Dixie Kong being an echo of Diddy? I hear their abilities are too different to do it justice, but if she was Ken levels of unique could it work? I don't know if that's what Sakurai would have wanted when originally envisioning her and Diddy as a tag team in Brawl, but maybe she could have that gun she uses in Returns instead of Diddy's, helicopter hair for up special, throws where she uses her hair to have grabbed the opponent and some attacks using her hair?

As a Ken-level Echo? Sure, I think she would work that way.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Posted this in another thread but it was about Crash sooooo

Speaking as one not too familiar with her character, could they honestly get away with Dixie Kong being an echo of Diddy? I hear their abilities are too different to do it justice, but if she was Ken levels of unique could it work? I don't know if that's what Sakurai would have wanted when originally envisioning her and Diddy as a tag team in Brawl, but maybe she could have that gun she uses in Returns instead of Diddy's, helicopter hair for up special, throws where she uses her hair to have grabbed the opponent and some attacks using her hair?

They could definitely get away with making Dixie a Diddy Echo, giving her DK's recovery, and calling it a day. But myself and a lot of other Dixie Kong supporters wouldn't feel that would be right at all since making Dixie a Echo wouldn't do her justice at all. Turning Dixie into a Echo would be the worst mistake since turning Ganondorf into a clone/semi-clone of Captain Falcon.

Considering the difference between Chrom and Roy I think they could get away with it. In the end Dixie Kong does play the same as Diddy minus the jet pack.

They could get away with it, but Dixie uses her hair a LOT in her games so it would be a waste to just turn her into a Echo.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

This fanbase sure loves to flipflop on who's "confirmed or disconfirmed"

Sora's creator saying he's not in the game = he's just lying because he could be under NDA

bethesda dude being vague about talking with Nintendo about Smash = he's breaking NDA

Come on now.

 

[TheYungLink]

This fanbase sure loves to flipflop on who's "confirmed or disconfirmed"

Sora's creator saying he's not in the game = he's just lying because he could be under NDA

bethesda dude being vague about talking with Nintendo about Smash = he's breaking NDA

Come on now.

More or less depends on who people want. There were a fair number of people who dismissed Vergeben until the second he started hinting at Banjo-Kazooie, for instance, most likely because those people really didn't want / care about a Dragon Quest fighter.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean, way I see it

if you were under NDA you wouldn't say anything, wouldn't confirm OR deny. When asked you'd just say "...." or vague responses that neither confirm nor deny like "ohhh that would be nice haha"

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

The fact that Bethesda talked about being in talks about Smash makes me believe even more that Doom Slayer is not in. If he was in. I doubt Bethesda would even be allowed to mention something like that in an NDA. Heck all this supposed teasing makes me skeptical about it since Nintendo has been trying to keep a tight lip on things.

The fact DQ developers were keep teasing so much about smash and sometimes talking about it directly even in their SE sponsored shows since November of last year, could be those NDA things aren't that strict than we may think.

 

[N3ON]

Cristina Vee also mentioned that she worked on Three Houses and she ended up being canned & replaced soon after. So yeah, they were both fired for breaking their NDA contract.

Perhaps, though Vee claimed (in a now deleted tweet) that the VA directors wanted to take the character in a different direction, and that was the reason the voice was changed. I agree breaking NDA is no light affair, but the other allegations Niosi was facing are even worse, and considering they were revealed in the same timeframe, and got significantly more publicity, I'm still given to think the latter played a bigger role.

However, in a redirect back to what we were talking about, one of the people who whistleblew the whole Niosi thing said this about NDAs: "knowing about it before it was announced means [it was] broken". We know nothing concrete about Bethesda in Smash, nothing has been broken.

I mean, way I see it

if you were under NDA you wouldn't say anything, wouldn't confirm OR deny. When asked you'd just say "...." or vague responses that neither confirm nor deny like "ohhh that would be nice haha"

I can't imagine they're barred from saying things that don't actually disclose anything.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This fanbase sure loves to flipflop on who's "confirmed or disconfirmed"

Sora's creator saying he's not in the game = he's just lying because he could be under NDA

bethesda dude being vague about talking with Nintendo about Smash = he's breaking NDA

Come on now.

Exactly! Remember what Grant Kirkhope said on Twitter sometime before Banjo & Kazooie was revealed guys, "Don't hold your breath." He lied because he did the Spriel Mountain remix in the reveal trailer.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

I mean, way I see it

if you were under NDA you wouldn't say anything, wouldn't confirm OR deny. When asked you'd just say "...." or vague responses that neither confirm nor deny like "ohhh that would be nice haha"

And how is what the guy did in any way wrong? He made his statement very vague, he didn't talk about what he discussed, when he did it, or if Nintendo would even get back to him on it.

 

[Deleted member]

Posted this in another thread but it was about Crash sooooo

Speaking as one not too familiar with her character, could they honestly get away with Dixie Kong being an echo of Diddy? I hear their abilities are too different to do it justice, but if she was Ken levels of unique could it work? I don't know if that's what Sakurai would have wanted when originally envisioning her and Diddy as a tag team in Brawl, but maybe she could have that gun she uses in Returns instead of Diddy's, helicopter hair for up special, throws where she uses her hair to have grabbed the opponent and some attacks using her hair?

Could be given the animations to Diddy are less reliant on his tail now. As long as she gets a few new moves like a new Up-B and the bubblegum gun it could work.

And then there’s Nintendo themselves, the pool of applicable candidates increasing EXPONENTIALLY if you, like me, believe Spirits ≠ deconfirmations.

Remember that Starling image like a week ago? The Geno thread sees it as a sliver of hope despite Geno having a Spirit, as long as his Mii Costume doesn’t return. That’s just one example.

No offense but the whole Starling thing seems useless at best given the multiple interpretations it can be given.

More or less depends on who people want. There were a fair number of people who dismissed Vergeben until the second he started hinting at Banjo-Kazooie, for instance, most likely because those people really didn't want / care about a Dragon Quest fighter.

The whole Verge thing was ridiculous, people were giving him **** due to him mentioning Minecraft. The whole DQ makes no sense either as people are stupid enough to not understand there were three spots left if a DQ got in.

The fact DQ developers were keep teasing so much about smash and sometimes talking about it directly even in their SE sponsored shows since November of last year, could be those NDA things aren't that strict than we may think.

NDAs are kinda difficult to know about how do they work, they could be pretty lenient or harsh depending on the situation and company.

OoC, has any other Japanese developer been teasing anything Smash related?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sora's creator saying he's not in the game = he's just lying because he could be under NDA

This never happened tho

 

[KillerCage]

Wasn't DLC reported to be finalized during September of last year though? If so then it's pretty likely to be a disconformation in my eyes. It's like when Wayforward started to campaign for Shantae right before the DLC finalization notice. If the finalization announcement was made in late October or something then I'll go ahead and assume the article means nothing.

Wait a minute. I thought the DLC characters were finalized in November.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

The original Japanese tweet has never said that the DLC lineup was finalized in November. The english translated tweet used the word "now" for some reason, but actually what Sakurai said was just "already done".

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know what’s interesting?

The exact words he used were “DLC lineup”. Not “Fighter’s Pass”. Just the DLC lineup. I wonder if that includes the datamined placeholder slots?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You know what’s interesting?

The exact words he used were “DLC lineup”. Not “Fighter’s Pass”. Just the DLC lineup. I wonder if that includes the datamined placeholder slots?

Could be simply because of PP on there. But yeah, it seems pretty clear they have the entire set of stuff planned entirely already by then. Including anything beyond the FP itself. Extra Echoes, or whatever, if any.