Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Eldrake]

This person clearly knew about Min Min being Fighter 6, before the announcement of an ARMS character. (March Mini Direct was 12 days later)

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/499362173/#q499386904

I have tried searching in the archive for the same picture with the same filename and found a few other posts, seemingly almost all of them by one person, but none of them have any similar leaks.

(warning: link includes offensive/NSFW language) https://arch.b4k.co/v/search/image/x6rBJp5dnk9CxPKn8ukzpg/ (obv. the first post does not have the same filename and is completely unrelated)

The next step would be to
-determine what type of filename this is: How does one get such a filename? How common is it?
-find posts about the same topics (Nintendo, Smash, Bandai Namco), with the same style of posting, and with the same filename type. It's probably a wild goose chase. It would be extremely hard to find other posts of this anonymous individual. But in any way, could anyone tell me what type of filename this is?

We had at least one 4chan post predicting Joker, a Square-Enix character and Banjo-Kazooie before Joker was revealed. Any 4chan post can make a lucky guess.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

The only clones that I genuinely hate in the Smash franchise is Ganondorf. Ironically, Sakurai has stated that he think that Ganondorf is "extremely lucky to be in Melee", but I think it's the exact opposite. Now he's stuck as a clone and the small changes they gave him in Ultimate are cool additions, but he's really not at his max potential. I wish he would have done the same thing as Wario and just wait for the next game and give him a propre moveset in the first place. Ganondorf is super iconic, so he would have been add eventually unlike, for example, Richter who probably would have never been added if it wasn't for a clone.

 

[Perkilator]

Since we're talking about Echoes, How do you guys feel about the Implementation of Echoes? do you think it was wasted potential? Should we have gotten more?

Wasted potential, if you ask me, even if what we have is mostly fine.

- should've gotten some of 's Custom Moves from Sm4sh so they could at least stand out enough. Here are some they could've used:


: Screw Rush


: Sleepy Toad
: Flower Bomber

(especially so)
: Dashing Assault
: Heavy Blade
: Dolphin Jump
: Iai Counter


: Amplifying Orbitars

- had three moves as an Assist Trophy that could've been transferred onto her (a flurry, a down Smash and a neutral Special, potentially), but NAAAAH. Let's make her literally floaty instead!
-'s Holy Water should've worked how it did in the games he was featured in, where it leaves a trail of blue fire.
- and Shadow were literally robbed, nobody cand deny that.

Really, I feel like are the only two Echoes who really fulfill the potential to strike a balance between different and same. Which kinda sucks, because the potential was clearly there.

 

[Gribbo]

Full disclosure, the Wild Woody post was me. I was gonna make a post explaining that investigating the image was pointless and doesn't really mean anything but figured it would be easier to just show you.

 

[J. Bond]

Well this was only "discovered" today (technically yesterday) while I was searching through the archive. Nobody would intentionally imitate the guy before yesterday. My intention was not to wait for him to post the same image which is extremely unlikely but to try and find his other posts (that could have the same filename type as this image if it is what you get when you eg. save images with such and such, have the same posting style (which can be harder to distinguish) and be on these topics) he's made since that could include other secretly disclosed info.
But yes, finding his other posts seems impossible anyway.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Really, I feel like are the only two Echoes who really fulfill the potential to strike a balance between different and same. Which kinda sucks, because the potential was clearly there.

I think Chrom could have done with a few more changes though. Give him the Storm Blade, Paralysing Counter and Heavy Blade custom specials and we have ourselves a decently different echo fighter. I'd still not be a fan of his easier Roy playstyle but it'd be something.

 

[volbound1700]

The only clones that I genuinely hate in the Smash franchise is Ganondorf. Ironically, Sakurai has stated that he think that Ganondorf is "extremely lucky to be in Melee", but I think it's the exact opposite. Now he's stuck as a clone and the small changes they gave him in Ultimate are cool additions, but he's really not at his max potential. I wish he would have done the same thing as Wario and just wait for the next game and give him a propre moveset in the first place. Ganondorf is super iconic, so he would have been add eventually unlike, for example, Richter who probably would have never been added if it wasn't for a clone.

I do feel he is different enough from CF now to work. Ganondorf is a slow, tank, while Captain Falcon is a fast character with some powerful attacks. I do think CF got nerfed too much in Ultimate.

 

[-crump-]

Since we're talking about Echoes, How do you guys feel about the Implementation of Echoes? do you think it was wasted potential? Should we have gotten more?

Personally I think the selection is Perfect. Chrom, Dark Samus, and Daisy were poplar requests, Richter was to Japan what Simon was to the West, and Ken is Legendary. I think any other New echo candiates wouldn't work well as these 5. They either work better as Alt Costumes (Ms.Pac-Man, Dry Bowser), arent Notable enough, Or them being an echo is too Controversial (any Sonic Character, Dixie Kong).

A part of me feels like Echoes are unnecessary padding added to an already bloated roster. Unlike Melee, where the clones were added out of necessity, Ultimate already has a huuuuge roster, so adding a few extra faces just for kicks, who play exactly like an existing character, seems kind of tacky, imo. It doesn’t help that they mess with the already strange roster order; I hate that Dark Samus splits up the original 12, for example.

That aside, Sakurai himself said Echoes don’t require much development time, so I can’t complain. If the inclusion of Daisy or Richter makes more people happy, I’m glad they got in.

P.S. Dark Samus deserves better than clone status, damnit

 

[Opossum]

I think Chrom could have done with a few more changes though. Give him the Storm Blade, Paralysing Counter and Heavy Blade custom specials and we have ourselves a decently different echo fighter. I'd still not be a fan of his easier Roy playstyle but it'd be something.

Again, though, Chrom is not just "easier Roy." He's a sidegrade, not a straight up upgrade like Lucina vs Marth.

...And Storm Thrust would make literally no sense on him anyway.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'd love an echo pack with 12 characters with the only purpose of having 100 characters in the game.
Here are my picks:
Mario - Toad (Toadette alt, with Yoshi/Bowser's Down-B)
Captain Falcon - Black Shadow (Basically Melee Ganondorf)
Bayonetta - Jeanne
Inkling - Octoling
Ness - Ninten (Mix Ness & Lucas, as Chrom is a Roy & Ike's mix)
Olimar - Louie (Brittany & Charlie alts, maybe with Rock Pikmin instead of purple)
Luigi - Gooigi (Super ball instead of Fireball)
Pac-Man - Ms. Pac-Man (dif fruits and taunts)
Palutena - Medusa (Different Elemental Properties)
Diddy Kong - Slippy (Granade instead of banana, Laser gun instead of peanut popper and some neutral adjustments for attacks that used Diddy's tail)
Donkey Kong - Donkey Kong Jr. (A little faster)
Mega Man - Proto Man (Mega Man with Link's shield)

I’d swap out Gooigi for Kasumi (Joker echo) and DK Jr. for Fiora (Elma echo if Elma’s DLC) and maybe just hecc it Dixie as a Diddy echo but with a different up B

 

[Deleted member]

If we're talking Echoes the GOAT pick would be Birdo. Swap out the Tongue with some suction, and Egg Throw with a straight egg shot while grounded, but have her shoot down to propel upwards in the air. Would be a bit more beginner friendly.

Edit: Also maybe no flutter jump? Idk if she can do that in any spinoffs so I didn't have this in originally.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Again, though, Chrom is not just "easier Roy." He's a sidegrade, not a straight up upgrade like Lucina vs Marth.

...And Storm Thrust would make literally no sense on him anyway.

He is easier Roy because his Sword is equally strong on every part of his blade. Roy has to get up close to be effective while Chrom can do that and also keep his distance.

Dark Samus makes no sense as an echo fighter but that's what happened to her.

 

[I.D.]

This person clearly knew about Min Min being Fighter 6, before the announcement of an ARMS character. (March Mini Direct was 12 days later)

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/499362173/#q499386904

I have tried searching in the archive for the same picture with the same filename and found a few other posts, seemingly almost all of them by one person, but none of them have any similar leaks.

(warning: link includes offensive/NSFW language) https://arch.b4k.co/v/search/image/x6rBJp5dnk9CxPKn8ukzpg/ (obv. the first post does not have the same filename and is completely unrelated)

The next step would be to
-determine what type of filename this is: How does one get such a filename? How common is it?
-find posts about the same topics (Nintendo, Smash, Bandai Namco), with the same style of posting, and with the same filename type. It's probably a wild goose chase. It would be extremely hard to find other posts of this anonymous individual. But in any way, could anyone tell me what type of filename this is?

Forget about it. Changing a filename is trivial, and trying to find a person through their writing style (stylometry) is far from being an exact science, and with the small size of 4chan posts it's outright impossible.

 

[Opossum]

He is easier Roy because his Sword is equally strong on every part of his blade. Roy has to get up close to be effective while Chrom can do that and also keep his distance.

Dark Samus makes no sense as an echo fighter but that's what happened to her.

Yes, but Easier Roy implies an upgrade. Chrom is very much not a direct upgrade because there are numerous trade offs. Roy, for example, has specific combos that only work with linking together sour and sweet spotted attacks, while Chrom, for example, has certain two frame set ups with his forward tilt that Roy doesn't have. Add into that Roy's fire effects and the fact that Blazer and Soaring Slash are two completely different attacks with two very different recovery and offensive purposes, and Chrom really can't be written off as "Easy Roy" like Lucina can be called "Easy Marth."

Storm Thrust makes zero sense because it's based on a move that doesn't even belong to Roy. Roy doesn't have Shield Breaker. And unlike with Soaring Slash being based off of Ike's Aether mechanically, there's no reason to give Chrom Storm Thrust to begin with. Dark Samus makes no sense as a counterpoint here.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Since we're talking about Echoes, How do you guys feel about the Implementation of Echoes? do you think it was wasted potential? Should we have gotten more?

A great concept that hasn't reached its full potential. Now I have what I consider realistic expectations when it comes to Echoes: What you expect is a cloned character with not that many differences, however, even little differences can drastically change a character's strategy. But unfortunately not all Echoes are created equal.

is a straight up semi-clone with many unique animations, so not much to say here.
is an example of what I said previously, the sole difference between her and her parent character is different values in their blades, and that's already a complete game changer.
follows the above strategy, but even moreso by having a different recovery than its parent character.
is lower than them on the spectrum, but at least the way his neutral and side Bs work justify him taking a different slot.
puzzles me... She way too many unique animations, even when attacking, that I don't understand why they didn't gave her anything more unique that wasn't different effects. I am not expecting her to be a fully unique character and I'm fine with that, but with the effort that went into making many of her animations distinct, I don't get why they didn't at least give her attacks some different values.
is straight up wasted potential. The only difference he has with Simon only matters when fighting Olimar and Link, that's it. Even if they just made their Holy Water more like in their respective games would be good enough, but nope.
is the above but worse, no gameplay difference at all.

I don't dislike any Echo, I'd rather have all of them in rather than none, especially Dark Samus and Chrom, but I think that they could go way further with what they already have.

 

[Idon]

He is easier Roy because his Sword is equally strong on every part of his blade. Roy has to get up close to be effective while Chrom can do that and also keep his distance.

Dark Samus makes no sense as an echo fighter but that's what happened to her.

Well he's not disagreeing Chrom is easier to play than Roy, he's saying that's not all he is as there a tactical advantage and disadvantage to playing or not playing one or the other.

 

[Dark Bagel]

Since we're talking about Echoes, How do you guys feel about the Implementation of Echoes? do you think it was wasted potential? Should we have gotten more?

Personally I think the selection is Perfect. Chrom, Dark Samus, and Daisy were poplar requests, Richter was to Japan what Simon was to the West, and Ken is Legendary. I think any other New echo candiates wouldn't work well as these 5. They either work better as Alt Costumes (Ms.Pac-Man, Dry Bowser), arent Notable enough, Or them being an echo is too Controversial (any Sonic Character, Dixie Kong).

I agree that it's a decent selection of echos, but Sakurai has committed the cardinal sin of not including the hot snake-haired lady as a Palu echo among their ranks. This is a travesty, a global issue, I'll be reporting this blatant and egregious violation of international law to the highest sub-intergalatic authorities posthaste, so that Namco Bandai and Sora Ltd. will see proper punishment.

 

[I.D.]

Insiders are like the hydra of Greek myth, even when crazy fans scare one away, several more pop up in their place

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I don't know anything about this guy other than he recently called the spiritual successor to Suikoden by Yo****aka Murayama.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Dark Samus makes no sense as an echo fighter but that's what happened to her.

Dark Samus is literally using a stolen suit from Samus as part of her body. It's logical she'd be equipped with whatever else the regular Varia Suit can do.

Would I rather have her be closer to the Prime games or how she was as an Assist Trophy? Definitely. But I wouldn't say she makes no sense as one.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Insiders are like the hydra of Greek myth, even when crazy fans scare one away, several more pop up in their place

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I don't know anything about this guy other than he recently called the spiritual successor to Suikoden by Yo****aka Murayama.

Soon, he will be introduced to a world of Despair...

Puhuhuhu.... AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

[SharkLord]

Insiders are like the hydra of Greek myth, even when crazy fans scare one away, several more pop up in their place

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I don't know anything about this guy other than he recently called the spiritual successor to Suikoden by Yo****aka Murayama.

Mmkay, I'll just add it to my ever-growing list of dates I've heard. 3rd, 5th, 6th, 10th, 20th (Where'd that come from? Ah well, now like I care about these dates too much anyways). If I've got all the dates, I'll have to be right eventually, right?

 

[Opossum]

is straight up wasted potential. The only difference he has with Simon only matters when fighting Olimar and Link, that's it. Even if they just made their Holy Water more like in their respective games would be good enough, but nope.

There actually is another matchup where the Holy Water difference is helpful, imo, and that's the Banjo matchup. Simon is much better at dealing with the Grenade Eggs due to their weird bounce arc.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Dark Samus makes no sense as an echo fighter but that's what happened to her.

Dark Samus can physically do all the things Samus can.

Her being limited to things that Samus can also do is a bit different than giving Chrom something he can't do.

 

[Dinoman96]

Dark Samus is a western designed character that hasn't been in a new game since 2007, was always the second banana to Ridley in terms of Smash popularity and more than likely won't be brought back for future installments going by what Tanabe has said in interviews.

Her making it in as a glorified alt for Samus is still a miracle in of itself.

 

[SharkLord]

Dark Samus can physically do all the things Samus can.

Her being limited to things that Samus can also do is a bit different than giving Chrom something he can't do.

Yeah, the thing about Dark Samus is that her moveset both makes sense and poorly represents her. As a clone of Samus, she can probably do anything she can, but she's also got a lot more she can do.
Then again, a good deal of the FE rep moves are just made up for the sake of a moveset, especially the older ones.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

>promising 2nd party title

would Bayonetta 3 count as this if it’s Switch exclusive? I wonder

 

[Idon]

Dark Samus can physically do all the things Samus can.

Her being limited to things that Samus can also do is a bit different than giving Chrom something he can't do.

Well to be fair, storm thrust doesn't make sense on the people it was originally given to.

As far as I know, neither Marth nor Lucina ever do any such wind-bending.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

>promising 2nd party title

would Bayonetta 3 count as this if it’s Switch exclusive? I wonder

Bayonetta is still a third party IP.

Star Fox Assault isn't magically second party cause Namco worked on it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That insider may be legit, he got Eiyuden Chronicle right, whatever that is:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[SharkLord]

>promising 2nd party title

would Bayonetta 3 count as this if it’s Switch exclusive? I wonder

Maybe? Nintendo funded it, so I think the publishing rights are split between them and Sega. That being said, Sega still own the franchise, Nintendo just has exclusive rights to the games they funded (2 and 3).
Anyways, a second-party is something owned by Nintendo but not made by them, right? So stuff like Golden Sun, Xenoblade, Kirby, Pokemon, etc. are considered second-party games? Or is the definition a bit different?

 

[Opossum]

Well to be fair, storm thrust doesn't make sense on the people it was originally given to.

As far as I know, neither Marth nor Lucina ever do any such wind-bending.

That's an issue with a lot of custom specials in general, with certain ones like Mega Man being the exceptions, not the rule.

It's why I can't really get behind the idea of loading Echoes up with old custom moves when most seem to be made just to be different.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Maybe? Nintendo funded it, so I think the publishing rights are split between them and Sega. That being said, Sega still own the franchise, Nintendo just has exclusive rights to the games they funded (2 and 3).
Anyways, a second-party is something owned by Nintendo but not made by them, right? So stuff like Golden Sun, Xenoblade, Kirby, Pokemon, etc. are considered second-party games? Or is the definition a bit different?

>Xenoblade

XENOBLADE CHRONICLES X DEFINITIVE EDITION LET’S ****ING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Maybe? Nintendo funded it, so I think the publishing rights are split between them and Sega. That being said, Sega still own the franchise, Nintendo just has exclusive rights to the games they funded (2 and 3).
Anyways, a second-party is something owned by Nintendo but not made by them, right? So stuff like Golden Sun, Xenoblade, Kirby, Pokemon, etc. are considered second-party games? Or is the definition a bit different?

Xenoblade is a first party IP. So is Kirby.

Only Golden Sun and Pokemon are second party.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as second party titles (and since its not specifying if that refers to the franchise or developer), I'll do half wild guessing/half wishful thinking and say its Next Level Games doing another Punch Out Game.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Yes, but Easier Roy implies an upgrade. Chrom is very much not a direct upgrade because there are numerous trade offs. Roy, for example, has specific combos that only work with linking together sour and sweet spotted attacks, while Chrom, for example, has certain two frame set ups with his forward tilt that Roy doesn't have. Add into that Roy's fire effects and the fact that Blazer and Soaring Slash are two completely different attacks with two very different recovery and offensive purposes, and Chrom really can't be written off as "Easy Roy" like Lucina can be called "Easy Marth."

Storm Thrust makes zero sense because it's based on a move that doesn't even belong to Roy. Roy doesn't have Shield Breaker. And unlike with Soaring Slash being based off of Ike's Aether mechanically, there's no reason to give Chrom Storm Thrust to begin with. Dark Samus makes no sense as a counterpoint here.

That's to be expected since Chrom's sword doesn't share the same knockback or damage as Roy. I don't like him from a design perspective, Sakurai made Lucina to be an easier Marth and considering Chrom shares the balanced sword trait as her, It's fair to assume that he was also made that way. That's why I don't like Chrom in Smash Bros.

I only suggested Storm thrust (or Storm Blade as it would be referred to) because it would have been changed from Marth to fit Chrom. Besides his flare blade doesn't make sense, there isn't even any fire from his blade and it looks more like wind which is why suggested that custom special.

Well he's not disagreeing Chrom is easier to play than Roy

But that was my point. Chrom is just easier Roy. That's what I don't like about him and why I'd like to see some changes.

 

[SharkLord]

Xenoblade is a first party IP. So is Kirby.

Only Golden Sun and Pokemon are second party.

Ah, thanks for clarification. Golden Sun Switch, **** YEAH!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

As far as second party titles, I'll do half wild guessing/half wishful thinking and say its Next Level Games doing another Punch Out Game.

Punch Out!! is still a first party IP.

Second Party (the slang we're using) means the IP is co-owned. Think of the Rare IPs in the N64 era.

But that was my point. Chrom is just easier Roy. That's what I don't like about him and why I'd like to see some changes.

Chrom being easier to play =/= Chrom is just easier Roy

Chrom isn't just training wheels.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I feel like if it was Pokémon he would have said it. Pokémon is HUGE. It’s probably a more “cult classic” second party, like Golden Sun

we finally gonna pick up where Dark Dawn left off? That cliffhanger was an oof

 

[-crump-]

>Xenoblade

XENOBLADE CHRONICLES X DEFINITIVE EDITION LET’S ****ING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Don’t quote me on this, but I think MonolithSoft is fully owned by Nintendo, not a independent studio like HAL Lab/Int Sys/Game Freak. Doesn’t that make Xenoblade 1st party?

Edit: ‘d

 

[SharkLord]

I feel like if it was Pokémon he would have said it. Pokémon is HUGE. It’s probably a more “cult classic” second party, like Golden Sun

we finally gonna pick up where Dark Dawn left off? That cliffhanger was an oof

I was thinking a remake of the original and TLA, so newcomers could get acquainted with the series first. We can't do another new generation thing because DD did that, and most people want to ply as Isaac anyways, since he's the guy everyone keeps requesting for Smash.