Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ROBnWatch]

View attachment 231955

My thoughts exactly, lol. Was thinking of this image too.

...

Hope intensifies

 

[3BitSaurus]

Well I don't know about another Capcom character, but I definitely think a Namco-Bandai character is a given for the Pass.

I don't know... while neither Namco nor Capcom are locks at this point, I have an easier time seeing Namco being skipped over than Capcom.

It's not that they don't have good picks, but... we have suspiciously little content from them, most of it being in Pac-Man's taunt. Meanwhile, Capcom seems really easy to work it and they have a lot of stuff in the game already.

I think it would be nice to see them get another character... I don't have that much faith it will happen as I once did.

 

[Taco Cruise]

At this point I'm fully in the belief of a few key ideas regarding DLC going forward - Sorry in advance for the wall of text, I don't post here much.
Edit: Putting below in spoiler to help with others browser settings/Slow Downs:


1. First and foremost, Spirits and ATs DECONFIRM characters. The only argument that has any validity against this statement is the Mewtwo and Lucas trophies in Smash 4, but with 3 DLC characters released and all 3 from third party companies, all coming with tons of brand new spirits, I am 99.9% confident that no characters that are currently spirits will become playable DLC fighters.

2. Characters are taking exceptionally long not only due to the horrendously difficult process of balancing a new character against the entire roster, but also because I believe a new mode will come with every one of the five characters. Sakurai is truly making this game Ultimate, and we've seen stage builder return already. I firmly believe we will see Home Run Contest, Boss Rush, and two more as of yet unknown modes, with one mode coming with each release so that people without the Fighters Pass will still feel like they are getting something.

3. Mii Costumes will come alongside every DLC pack - just makes logical sense.

With these three key points established, I have a small list of most likely characters (in no specific order), and some thoughts on what we're actually going to get going forward.

Most Likely Characters:

1. Leon/Jill (Resident Evil) - Hugely popular series, would make a ton of sense as a horror rep
2. Doom Guy/Slayer - Bethesda and Nintendo have been extremely tight knit and this would make a ton of sense
3. Edelgard - The fact that she's FE, obviously female, a shill pick, from a brand new game, and part of an extremely old leak that also called Joker, Banjo, and Dragon Quest rep makes me believe she has a higher chance than almost anyone, despite me believing the rest of the DLC is third party. If I'm wrong in that statement, we will likely see Edelgard as the 4th fighter.
4. Phoenix Wright - no Spirits, no representation, huge series, funny character, been active with Nintendo, he makes a ton of sense and it wouldn't be seen as a terrible choice by a majority of people. A Courtroom would be super interesting as a stage too.

Bonus Content:

I think that aside from the 5 DLC packs, we will get a 3-pack of echo characters, something easier to make for Sakurai's team that will also satisfy a ton of fans. This could be sold for $8.99 or $9.99 USD and most people would still scoop the characters up.

I honestly wouldn't be shocked to get a free bonus character that's completely out of left field - I have three thoughts on what this could be if it happened:

1. Metal Mario - An always metal mario to appeal to Smash 64 fans that wanted him playable. People would probably be angry about this overall.
2. Builder Mario - a special character that involves building (duh), one that nobody would expect (And Steve fans would probably be mad about)
3. Rabbid - What if there was a Raving Rabbids character that was essentially a Random character, one that could adapt to EVERY moveset in the game - it would likely take far too much work for Sakurai and his team, but imagine if playing as the Rabbid meant you'd randomly be another character in the roster, just as a Raving Rabbid version. This would add tons of variety and be outright silly.

As far as the remaining two modes that I'd have to guess at (Assuming boss rush and home run contest are going to be a thing), I'd think break the targets and smash run are going to be the remaining two modes, with smash run being a long shot. I just don't know what other modes they could bring back, so perhaps they'd just make an entirely new mode. Maybe one where a player could control an AT if they were sitting out the battle, but it wouldn't really work for characters like The Moon or Skull Kid, so that's unlikely.

TLDR:

I'd guess we get Jill Valentine or Leon from Resident Evil and Phoenix Wright, even though I want Doom Guy. I also think we'll get three echo characters in a bundle at some point. I wouldn't expect anyone that's already a spirit or AT to become playable this game.

 

[TheCJBrine]

2. Builder Mario - a special character that involves building (duh), one that nobody would expect (And Steve fans would probably be mad about)

Don't know why you had to bring up Steve in this fashion, but building blocks would only be one or two moves out of Steve's moveset, and it'd have to be limited. This is a stretch.

 

[Taco Cruise]

Don't know why you had to bring up Steve, but building blocks would only be one or two moves out of Steve's moveset. This is a stretch.

How in God's good name could you have Steve without more than two moves involving building? I'm not saying I believe Builder Mario is going to happen, but I just wouldn't be too surprised

 

[TheCJBrine]

How in God's good name could you have Steve without more than two moves involving building? I'm not saying I believe Builder Mario is going to happen, but I just wouldn't be too surprised

-TNT
-Enderpearl
-Pickaxe, axe, sword, hoe, shovel...
-Bow
-Crossbow
-Trident
-Fireworks
-Potions
-Minecart
-Shield
-Banners
-Pistons
-Dispenser
-Chest
-Lava/water bucket
-Mob spawn egg
-Nether portal
-End portal
-Wither
-Ender Dragon
-Crafting Table, resources, buffs from armor/tool upgrades

It's not hard to come up with a moveset for Steve if you've played Minecraft.

If building wasn't limited in how much he could place, it'd be overpowered, and it'd be very weird to not limit placing blocks to one or two special moves, maybe just wood for his neutral special and cobblestone for his down special, or more blocks with all of them kept in his neutral special.

A video, for one moveset example, more in the Steve thread:

Honestly it's absurd to think the only thing he could do or should mostly do is build unless you've never played Minecraft or have never seen a thing from it aside from some guy building a house, and it'd be redundant and bad design to make more than two moves be main building moves with selectable blocks (though tbh a character that only builds and somehow deals damage would probably be cool imo but could be overpowered and I think Steve should use more stuff from Minecraft + it would be weird to have no damaging specials or to not keep building limited to 2 specials at most for building vertically or horizontally).

 

[SimonferSmash]

Something came to my mind as of late.

I wonder if the reason why we haven't gotten a newcomer who can briefly undergo temporary transformations is because it would eat up too much development resources and essentially be a programming nightmare.

Also it could be due to not being all that viable or balanced for more competitive play.

Could be why we haven't gotten someone who revolves around a rhythm based gimmick too.

 

[Will]

I wonder if the reason why we haven't gotten a newcomer who can briefly undergo temporary transformations is because it would eat up too much development resources and essentially be a programming nightmare.

move out of the way shantae

 

[Door Key Pig]

Something came to my mind as of late.

I wonder if the reason why we haven't gotten a newcomer who can briefly undergo temporary transformations is because it would eat up too much development resources and essentially be a programming nightmare.

Also it could be due to not being all that viable or balanced for more competitive play.

Could be why we haven't gotten someone who revolves around a rhythm based gimmick too.

You're saying a rhythm gimmick character would suffer from competitive balance and programming issues in making that gimmick?

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Who you guys think are going to take those last two slots in the Season Pass? I think it's going to be a Namco-Bandai rep and a Nintendo character.

I honestly think 2 new companies, 1 new popular company 1 new obscure company,
and I'm not even sure if we going to get a Bandai Namco/Capcom rep tbh(although between the 2 companies I feel like a Namco rep is more likely given that they haven't got a new rep since smash 4's release (i.e. ) )

 

[Will]

I honestly think 2 new companies, 1 new popular company 1 new obscure company,

define "obscure company"

 

[OrpheusTelos]

2. Builder Mario - a special character that involves building (duh), one that nobody would expect (And Steve fans would probably be mad about)

I don't think that's going to happen just because Mario already has a builder costume in the game.

Right now I'm still leaning heavily on Frisk and Leon/Jill being the last two DLC characters because they fit with Nintendo's whole demographic deal and fit the quota of "new, unexpected third parties" we've been seeing so far. Still not convinced we're getting anyone else after Fighters Pass, and tbh I kinda hope that's the case because I really wanna see Sakurai and the team work on something else like a Kid Icarus Uprising sequel/remake or Kirby Does His Taxes Deluxe

 

[Herocin]

I have a genuine question for the people who think a re rep is a given for the fighter pass and it is what moveset could he have? Snake uses the grenade and banjo just took it which wouldn’t really look good due to how close banjo and a re rep would have been in the fighter pass. The gun would probably act almost exactly like jokers in the fact that they are just ranged hitboxes that don’t actually come from the character itself whilst performing the move most likely because of the rating and whatnot. The grappling hook would just be jokers. Yeah sure he could maybe shoot it up and leave it in the air but at the same time that’d just be different for the sake of giving them a unique moveset which I can’t imagine sakurai doing. The rockets would be a blend between snakes and samuses as they would pull out a rocket launcher like snake but it’d fire straight like the first version of samuses missile. Healing is pretty much already taken up by wii fit trainer and tbh ever since wii fit trainer was a character we haven’t had many if not any characters who have healed themselves in their movesets most likely due to the fact that wii fit trainer can heal herself due to her specials twice. Thoughts?

 

[tenworldsguy]

3. Edelgard - The fact that she's FE, obviously female, a shill pick, from a brand new game, and part of an extremely old leak that also called Joker, Banjo, and Dragon Quest rep makes me believe she has a higher chance than almost anyone, despite me believing the rest of the DLC is third party. If I'm wrong in that statement, we will likely see Edelgard as the 4th fighter.

I'm gonna have to disagree here. Not only were Rex and Spring Man screwed over because they came out too late (2017), which would completely invalidate Edelgard in regards to likelihood, but Sakuri almost certainly knows of the giant Promotional Characters/Fire Emblem hate train. Chrom was practically already in the game, what with being an echo as well as having a model from Robin's FS, so pair that with his popularity in Japan and he was a lock, in spite of the mentioned hate train. Edelgard is from a game which hasn't even come out yet, in a series already infamous for being over saturated, and doesn't even have huge popularity to back her up. If she had like Sora levels of support then maybe like a smidgen of a chance, but as things stand now she's almost certainly just going to be a DLC spirit (whether from an update or a rando spirit festival).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm gonna have to disagree here. Not only were Rex and Spring Man screwed over because they came out too late (2017), which would completely invalidate Edelgard in regards to likelihood, but Sakuri almost certainly knows of the giant Promotional Characters/Fire Emblem hate train. Chrom was practically already in the game, what with being an echo as well as having a model from Robin's FS, so pair that with his popularity in Japan and he was a lock, in spite of the mentioned hate train. Edelgard is from a game which hasn't even come out yet, in a series already infamous for being over saturated, and doesn't even have huge popularity to back her up. If she had like Sora levels of support then maybe like a smidgen of a chance, but as things stand now she's almost certainly just going to be a DLC spirit (whether from an update or a rando spirit festival).

also the leak the person you quoted mentioned, had Hero but NOT Banjo. Iirc it was: Joker, Hero, Edelgard, Phoenix Wright, “Baboom” (supposed third evolution of Grookey), and a free “Countess” (Kasumi Yoshizawa?) echo patched in for Joker owners

Banjo was nowhere to be found in that leak so yeah that one’s fake as heck

 

[Opossum]

People really need to stop equating being too late for the base game with being too late for DLC.

Rex didn't even have his final design when the roster was decided, but assuming the DLC was picked around April 2018 like Banjo was, Three Houses and Sword and Shield likely had preliminary designs (especially since we'd see Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, and Byleth's final designs a month and a half later, and Three Houses was known about since 2017, they were probably ready for a good long while). That's not even getting into the precedent Pokémon has for placeholder fighters.

 

[KingBroly]

We'll get an amiibo compatibility patch this week for the ones coming out on Friday in the US

Assuming there's a pattern, the Hero will come out in a week or two. And if that is a pattern, it'd place Banjo sometime around the end of September/early October, due to Amiibo releasing on the same day as Link's Awakening

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't really care too much about the last two DLC spots at this point, the characters I still want have either been disconfirmed or I'm not expecting anyway. I'd still be hyped for them, of course, but the worst I feel in the end is disappointment that my wants didn't get in while still finding the other characters to be either "very cool" or "okay I don't care either way" anyway. At least the bear and bird are in, wish Steve could've been with them.

I think Edelgard can happen, Fire Emblem Fates was released in Japan during the summertime in 2015 and Sakurai still added Corrin to Smash 4, though I think it was mostly because of his developers showing him how they'd be cool and nothing to do with Nintendo based on what he said.

 

[3BitSaurus]

People really need to stop equating being too late for the base game with being too late for DLC.

Rex didn't even have his final design when the roster was decided, but assuming the DLC was picked around April 2018 like Banjo was, Three Houses and Sword and Shield likely had preliminary designs (especially since we'd see Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, and Byleth's final designs a month and a half later, and Three Houses was known about since 2017, they were probably ready for a good long while). That's not even getting into the precedent Pokémon has for placeholder fighters.

I do think you stand correct in the fact that it's possible, but to play devil's advocate for a second:

If Banjo was negotiated in April but the DLC lineup was only closed around November/December, right before the game's release... why the six-month gap? I highly doubt this is due only to Hero and Joker. And a first-party character wouldn't really take that much time to negotiate (plus, each character might have taken different amounts of time as well).

If we go by negotiation dates, then that would imply we aren't getting any first parties because only third parties would take that long to negotiate, no?

 

[TheCJBrine]

People really need to stop equating being too late for the base game with being too late for DLC.

Rex didn't even have his final design when the roster was decided, but assuming the DLC was picked around April 2018 like Banjo was, Three Houses and Sword and Shield likely had preliminary designs (especially since we'd see Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, and Byleth's final designs a month and a half later, and Three Houses was known about since 2017, they were probably ready for a good long while). That's not even getting into the precedent Pokémon has for placeholder fighters.

hey wait if this was in April then Vergeben's "Minecraft content" could be mii costumes or something; better than nothing.

and PapaGenos's source was probably a legitimate Microsoft dude which I believe anyway but y'know.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My biggest thing with seeing the Fighter Pass as all 3rd parties, is that it makes the most sense to do that if the goal is to make the game accessible to more fans. Adding Nintendo characters might interest people in their respective games, but it doesn’t draw as many folks people to Smash itself.

It’s not a leap to think a lot of Pokémon fans and Fire Emblem fans own Smash already. It’s also not a stretch when you think why: Fire Emblem and Pokémon are among the franchises with the most content in Smash as a whole. Extensive music selections, a selection of playable characters, different stages...

Compare that to a series with nothing currently in Smash. There’s more potential, more to differentiate from Nintendo series, and more fans to bring in.

One thing I believe fans overlooked is with Reggie’s comments in an IGN interview about Joker, in which he said:

To me, when I think about this, why think about video games as a total perspective unless the fighters were coming from franchises that weren’t in Smash already? It’s also noted in that article that Sakurai is looking for characters/series that are “unique, different”. 3rd parties, and genres that aren’t expected in a fighting game, fit that nicely.

We could get a 1st party pick. But if they’re meant to be revealed to market a game in a particular time (sorta like Corrin, whose game was our prior to reveal in Japan, but not in the US), that would be easily missed for Three Houses, as it comes out next Friday, while both Fighter 2 and 3 need to be released.

The only three 1st parties I could see getting a character are Three Houses, Sword and Shield, or Astral Chain. However, I don’t expect it to happen.

My final point is simply that 1st party franchises, unless they are completely new, don’t expand the crossover to the extent that an entirely new 3rd party does, especially when its being added on top of content we already have from the same series.

 

[Opossum]

I do think you stand correct in the fact that it's possible, but to play devil's advocate for a second:

If Banjo was negotiated in April but the DLC lineup was only closed around November/December, right before the game's release... why the six-month gap? I highly doubt this is due only to Hero and Joker. And a first-party character wouldn't really take that much time to negotiate (plus, each character might have taken different amounts of time as well).

If we go by negotiation dates, then that would imply we aren't getting any first parties because only third parties would take that long to negotiate, no?

Simply put, I think the negotiations ending in the fall is outright unreliable information. Sakurai's English isn't the best, as seen with his interactions with Grant Kirkhope on Twitter, and it's very possible "now complete" was mixed up with "already complete" given the context was "stop asking for characters." Plus even when he gets an official translator, sometimes there are still glaring errors. Never forget the "Assists factor into All Star Mode" mistranslation.

On the last part, alternatively, due to their ease, first party additions could be negotiated later than third party ones.

 

[Door Key Pig]

I mean, could it be a first party that doesn't have the most significant overlap with Smash's audience Scoliosis Jones? Also of a unique genre for a fighting game?

 

[Will]

I mean, could it be a first party that doesn't have the most significant overlap with Smash's audience Scoliosis Jones?

Impossible but look at him go.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

People really need to stop equating being too late for the base game with being too late for DLC.

Rex didn't even have his final design when the roster was decided, but assuming the DLC was picked around April 2018 like Banjo was, Three Houses and Sword and Shield likely had preliminary designs (especially since we'd see Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, and Byleth's final designs a month and a half later, and Three Houses was known about since 2017, they were probably ready for a good long while). That's not even getting into the precedent Pokémon has for placeholder fighters.

When was it confirmed that Banjo was picked in April 2018?

 

[tenworldsguy]

also the leak the person you quoted mentioned, had Hero but NOT Banjo. Iirc it was: Joker, Hero, Edelgard, Phoenix Wright, “Baboom” (supposed third evolution of Grookey), and a free “Countess” (Kasumi Yoshizawa?) echo patched in for Joker owners

Banjo was nowhere to be found in that leak so yeah that one’s fake as heck

Also let's be real here
I don't mean to attack Pokemon Swish fans but
adding another Pokemon from an already controversial game would probably generate the same amount of hate and backlash as would Edelgarde, if not more. Nobody wants a SwiSh rep sans diehard Pokemon fans who accept everything in the series as perfect.
I get that Pokemon is the biggest selling franchise of all time, but we shouldn't always go by sales numbers alone. If that were the case, then Steve and Tetrino would be surefire locks, and we'd also have fourth parties like Darth Vader be excused because "Star Wars is a very popular series". Especially not when said popular series is already extremely oversaturated in smash, without a single echo to even make the number feel bloated (FE only has five(four if you count Roy as a clone) unique characters, Pokemon has TEN (Pikachu, Jiggs, Pichu, Mew2, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar) unique characters (Nine if Pichu is considered a clone) in smash ultimate! Having one series take up about 13% of all representation (assuming all DLC is here and no Pokemon in pass) in a game as large as Smash is just absurd, and really we just don't need more.

This is probably a biased argument but I find it hard to believe that upon seeing all the potential fighters, Sakuri would choose another Pokemon as advertising.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Simply put, I think the negotiations ending in the fall is outright unreliable information. Sakurai's English isn't the best, as seen with his interactions with Grant Kirkhope on Twitter, and it's very possible "now complete" was mixed up with "already complete" given the context was "stop asking for characters." Plus even when he gets an official translator, sometimes there are still glaring errors. Never forget the "Assists factor into All Star Mode" mistranslation.

On the last part, alternatively, due to their ease, first party additions could be negotiated later than third party ones.

Hmmm... I know you're right about the context of his original tweet, but I'm still kinda doubtful it was "just" a mistranslation.

We need to remember that in another interview, Sakurai stated they had nothing to show for DLC at the Game Awards (gameplay-wise, I mean), which ties into fighters 1, 2 and 3 being, at best, in initial production stage, nevermind 4 and 5. It kinda falls in line with the DLC lineup being decided at least in Q4 2018 (though not necessarily December).

Do we have any other evidence that it could be a mistranslation? Just curious.

And true, first parties could be negotiated later... but why would they have to be Pass characters then? There wouldn't have been too many losses if they held back Rex or Spring Man (for example) for late DLC in that case, would it?

(Sorry if I'm sounding too contrarian btw, It's just a topic I've had little chance to debate about before and I'm curious.)

 

[Opossum]

When was it confirmed that Banjo was picked in April 2018?

Publicly? Never. Behind closed doors? For a good while now.

Hmmm... I know you're right about the context of his original tweet, but I'm still kinda doubtful it was "just" a mistranslation.

We need to remember that in another interview, Sakurai stated they had nothing to show for DLC at the Game Awards (gameplay-wise, I mean), which ties into fighters 1, 2 and 3 being, at best, in initial production stage, nevermind 4 and 5. It kinda falls in line with the DLC lineup being decided at least in Q4 2018 (though not necessarily December).

Do we have any other evidence that it could be a mistranslation? Just curious.

And true, first parties could be negotiated later... but why would they have to be Pass characters then? There wouldn't have been too many losses if they held back Rex or Spring Man (for example) for late DLC in that case, would it?

(Sorry if I'm sounding too contrarian btw, It's just a topic I've had little chance to debate about before and I'm curious.)

Keep in mind that negotiations were likely done long before the start of active development, as the modeling team was likely still working on the base game's content.

There isn't exactly a ton of evidence of it being a mistranslation beyond precedent, but said precedent prevents me from ruling it out completely.

As for "why would they need to be pass characters," I firmly believe there are no further plans for DLC outside the pass (outside of MAYBE repurposing the Kasumi Joker alt that we know existed at one point into an echo, but even then she could just be a bonus tied to the pass, since Joker himself is). Piranha Plant seemed to be the exception, especially given all the evidence that it was planned for the base game but not finished on time.

And don't worry about it lol. You're not being a contrarian.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mean, could it be a first party that doesn't have the most significant overlap with Smash's audience Scoliosis Jones? Also of a unique genre for a fighting game?

Perhaps! But consider this as well...which characters would be left, if spirits, ATs, and Mii Costumes disconfirm fighters?

In addition, if the Character in question isn’t any of those things and belongs to Nintendo (which in most cases makes them rather obscure in comparison) how does that effectively draw in a new audience to Smash, especially in comparison to a 3rd party that more fans are familiar with?

 

[Will]

Publicly? Never. Behind closed doors? For a good while now.

this possum works for nintendo for implying he was behind said closed doors, be my uncle pls

 

[Opossum]

Perhaps! But consider this as well...which characters would be left, if spirits, ATs, and Mii Costumes disconfirm fighters?

In addition, if the Character in question isn’t any of those things and belongs to Nintendo (which in most cases makes them rather obscure in comparison) how does that effectively draw in a new audience to Smash, especially in comparison to a 3rd party that more fans are familiar with?

I mean, in fairness, I'd argue Banjo didn't exactly bring in a new audience. In the eyes of most he's a decidedly Nintendo character.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mean, in fairness, I'd argue Banjo didn't exactly bring in a new audience. In the eyes of most he's a decidedly Nintendo character.

He’s also a pick from a very specific situation.

While you’re entirely correct that he’s not the biggest character ever, we’re comparing a long-desired 90’s Nintendo icon to a retro or hardly known character that’s Nintendo likely hasn’t used in quite some time.

As I said before, I don’t foresee any Nintendo characters unless their situation is similar to Corrin, and I frankly doubt that happening this time in the first place, for a variety of reasons.

 

[tenworldsguy]

Perhaps! But consider this as well...which characters would be left, if spirits, ATs, and Mii Costumes disconfirm fighters?

In addition, if the Character in question isn’t any of those things and belongs to Nintendo (which in most cases makes them rather obscure in comparison) how does that effectively draw in a new audience to Smash, especially in comparison to a 3rd party that more fans are familiar with?

As has been said many times in these boards, there are still several notable characters (and several less notable but potential) without any presence in the game period. Porky (Mother villian) and Sylux (Metroid villian) seem to be the biggest two not from as-of-now unreleased games, but there are also Poochy (notable Yoshi character), Ado (Kirby character), Mike Jones (Star Tropics protag), many Advanced Wars characters, and my personal point of Sacho/President (notable Pikmin character). I'm sure there's more but those are the ones I've seen most often (sans Sacho, but that's, as said, more a personal observation than anything).

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

define "obscure company"

Obscure Companies are companies that are not as well known as the big ones(Bethesda,Microsoft,Capcom,Sega, and of course Nintendo), Companies such as Koei Tecmo(Dynasty Warriors,Ninja Gaiden,Dead or Alive),Nippon Ichi Software(Disgaea), Level-5(Yo-kai Watch, Ni no Kuni, Professor Layton,Ni no Kuni), Marvelous(Harvest Moon, Rune Factory, Senran Kagura and the upcoming games such as Daemon X Machina and No More Heroes III),and SNK(Fatal Fury, Metal Slug, The King of Fighters), are examples of obscure companies

 

[3BitSaurus]

Publicly? Never. Behind closed doors? For a good while now.

Keep in mind that negotiations were likely done long before the start of active development, as the modeling team was likely still working on the base game's content.

There isn't exactly a ton of evidence of it being a mistranslation beyond precedent, but said precedent prevents me from ruling it out completely.

As for "why would they need to be pass characters," I firmly believe there are no further plans for DLC outside the pass (outside of MAYBE repurposing the Kasumi Joker alt that we know existed at one point into an echo, but even then she could just be a bonus tied to the pass, since Joker himself is). Piranha Plant seemed to be the exception, especially given all the evidence that it was planned for the base game but not finished on time.

And don't worry about it lol. You're not being a contrarian.

True, that's how game development works, especially in big teams. Everything needs to be laid out before actual work is done. They weren't able to do anything before January 2019 because the base game (as well as Piranha Plant) was still being worked on. But that still begs the question: if a first party character is among the five DLCs... why would they need to plan stuff this far ahead?

With Joker, Hero and Banjo, it's only natural that negotiations would begin nearly a year before the first Challenger Pack release (Joker, during April 2019). But for a first party? Sure, they need a stage, music and Spirits, but... I don't know if that justifies as much time in advance as a first party, depending on their project pipeline.

Like, hypothetically speaking (and as you've said), they could even do negotiations for a Three Houses character as late as this summer (since the next character probably releases during winter and the FP characters aren't all being worked on at the same time anyway). It would even give the FE team more time to fully fesh out the characters as much as they want before release, then give Sakurai the data. Yet the DLC roster was finished last year (as we know).

... I dunno, something about these calcs doesn't really sit right with me... especially when characters like Joker and Luigi have elements from upcoming games, but it's just their up special and grab, respectively, probably because of time constraints. Why would they decide on a FE character this early when they could give the team more room to prepare since it's not base game and only Joker, Hero and Banjo were being worked on at first anyway?

About the "contrarian" remark... I guess most people don't react well to these topics nowadays. Things devolve into name-calling way too fast for my liking. Thanks for giving me a civil discussion, I appreciate it.

I mean, in fairness, I'd argue Banjo didn't exactly bring in a new audience. In the eyes of most he's a decidedly Nintendo character.

Wouldn't that be another point of contention though? If Banjo didn't necessarily bring too many new people... would they use a first party character, who would do exactly that same thing?

 

[UberPyro64]

Have some Doom Slayer Smash hype pictures:

Spoiler

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...Ado (Kirby character)...

After Kirby Star Allies I did not expect to have to look up a notable Kirby character. (Ado seems to be Adeline's name in Kirby's Dreamland 3)

Obscure Companies are companies that are not as well known as the big ones(Bethesda,Microsoft,Capcom,Sega, and of course Nintendo), Companies such as Koei Tecmo(Dynasty Warriors,Ninja Gaiden,Dead or Alive),Nippon Ichi Software(Disgaea), Level-5(Yo-kai Watch, Ni no Kuni, Professor Layton,Ni no Kuni), Marvelous(Harvest Moon, Rune Factory, Senran Kagura and the upcoming games such as Daemon X Machina and No More Heroes III),and SNK(Fatal Fury, Metal Slug, The King of Fighters), are examples of obscure companies

Wait...Daemon X Machina isn't a first party title? I thought it was one because of how much Nintendo was promoting it.


Also you said Ni no Kuni twice.

EDIT: Um...UberPyro64, what does that image have to do with anything?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

As has been said many times in these boards, there are still several notable characters (and several less notable but potential) without any presence in the game period. Porky (Mother villian) and Sylux (Metroid villian) seem to be the biggest two not from as-of-now unreleased games, but there are also Poochy (notable Yoshi character), Ado (Kirby character), Mike Jones (Star Tropics protag), many Advanced Wars characters, and my personal point of Sacho/President (notable Pikmin character). I'm sure there's more but those are the ones I've seen most often (sans Sacho, but that's, as said, more a personal observation than anything).

To put this into perspective, consider it this way. The characters you listed are definitely mostly known, but what marketability to they have to gamers who aren’t Nintendo fans?

I think out of all the characters you listed, Advance Wars bears the most demand. But at this point, compared to the exposure and fans that 3rd party franchises could bring in, its very clear which way to go about it.

The 3rd parties currently not in Smash, compared to the 1st parties available, simply reach to larger canvases, and bring more unique franchises than what Nintendo has to offer at this point in time.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Obscure Companies are companies that are not as well known as the big ones(Bethesda,Microsoft,Capcom,Sega, and of course Nintendo), Companies such as Koei Tecmo(Dynasty Warriors,Ninja Gaiden,Dead or Alive),Nippon Ichi Software(Disgaea), Level-5(Yo-kai Watch, Ni no Kuni, Professor Layton,Ni no Kuni), Marvelous(Harvest Moon, Rune Factory, Senran Kagura and the upcoming games such as Daemon X Machina and No More Heroes III),and SNK(Fatal Fury, Metal Slug, The King of Fighters), are examples of obscure companies

For the most part, I wouldn't call any of these "obscure", aside from maybe Nippon Ichi. And that's a big, big maybe. They're smaller than the companies already in Smash, sure, but in general one doesn't need to dig that deep for, say, Level-5, Koei or SNK. They're all notable companies in certain respective genres - they just don't transcend gaming as a whole like the bigger fish. But I think most JRPG fans will have heard of Level-5 or Nippon, and a lot of fighting game fans know SNK, for example.

I think the word you're looking for might be "niche", not obscure, perhaps?

 

[Opossum]

True, that's how game development works, especially in big teams. Everything needs to be laid out before actual work is done. They weren't able to do anything before January 2019 because the base game (as well as Piranha Plant) was still being worked on. But that still begs the question: if a first party character is among the five DLCs... why would they need to plan stuff this far ahead?

With Joker, Hero and Banjo, it's only natural that negotiations would begin nearly a year before the first Challenger Pack release (Joker, during April 2019). But for a first party? Sure, they need a stage, music and Spirits, but... I don't know if that justifies as much time in advance as a first party, depending on their project pipeline.

Like, hypothetically speaking (and as you've said), they could even do negotiations for a Three Houses character as late as this summer (since the next character probably releases during winter and the FP characters aren't all being worked on at the same time anyway). It would even give the FE team more time to fully fesh out the characters as much as they want before release, then give Sakurai the data. Yet the DLC roster was finished last year (as we know).

... I dunno, something about these calcs doesn't really sit right with me... especially when characters like Joker and Luigi have elements from upcoming games, but it's just their up special and grab, respectively, probably because of time constraints. Why would they decide on a FE character this early when they could give the team more room to prepare since it's not base game and only Joker, Hero and Banjo were being worked on at first anyway?

About the "contrarian" remark... I guess most people don't react well to these topics nowadays. Things devolve into name-calling way too fast for my liking. Thanks for giving me a civil discussion, I appreciate it.



Wouldn't that be another point of contention though? If Banjo didn't necessarily bring too many new people... would they use a first party character, who would do exactly that same thing?

I take it they were all planned that far ahead out of convenience, if nothing else. Like, if even some required longer negotiation times, you may as well iron out the whole thing then and there. It also helps with the marketing, giving them more time to come in up with a release plan and whatnot.

There's always the scenario wherein the team decided on someone back early last year, but made them one of the later releases in case they wanted to go about the character differently. For example, let's use Edelgard. In theory they decided on her around the time Banjo was decided, but planned her as the fourth or fifth fighter. That way it gives more time to the FE Devs to iron out a few things that maybe weren't ironed out before, and still include it in Smash. Say, for example, her post-timeskip design wasn't finalized but they wanted it as an alt in Smash. A later release would give them more time to develop that, in theory.

Just spitballing, is all.