Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Playstation Guy 1000]

What do you guys think is likely: getting a second fighter pass, getting a few bonus fighters or getting nothing at all after this fighter pass?

I would say nothing, or maybe one bonus fighter. And if we get this bonus fighter, it must be Geno. To close off the Ultimate Smash Bros. cycle with one of the most frequently asked Smash characters would make Ultimate feel “Ultimate”.

a second fighters pass is possible but unlikely considering what Sakurai said about dlc, I feel like a bonus character is a more likely choice than a 2nd fighter pass tbh.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Also, there have been hints in the past. Off the top of my head, Sakurai disclosed he was thinking about a Capcom inclusion prior to Mega Man's reveal, and the Palutena trailer was clearly hinting at Dark Pit. Shulk's VA also hinted at his inclusion prior to reveal.

No idea about the "Thinking about a Capcom" thing, but Depending on the timeframe, that doesn't mean it's a hint. People used the fact that Sakurai wanted Geno in Brawl as a hint to him being in Ultimate after all.

As For Dark Pit, remember, Dark Pit was originally an Alt, not a separate character. It being an actual Animated Trailer done by shaft means it's something that takes more time than a typical CG animation done by Digital Frontier. If it was a hint for anything, it was a hint towards being an Alt costume, not a different playable character.

For Shulk, It was absolutely not a direct tease for Smash. He said he was in a couple projects that he'd get his balls cut off if he disclosed.

He wasn't feigning ignorance though, he didn't say "no idea". He was actively discouraging the outcome. Any developer can just lie.

That literally is feigning ignorance, though. Again, he has no legal connection to Banjo. Him not knowing is not something out of the ordinary. In fact, I'd say him saying anything else would arouse more suspicion than anything. His entire stance was "Nobody's told me anything, so don't expect it". Grant's not in a position to where his words can directly effect marketing, unlike Kishimoto saying Sora isn't planned for Ultimate. That's a song and dance this fanbase has gone through before with Snake in 3DS/Wii U.

Now with the widening range of consumers, which insinuates that there is a larger female market playing smash, it could make sense that at least one of the last two DLC spots might be a character targeted towards a female audience.

Literally Tales of

 

[blackghost]

sakurai has said ALOT of things and changed his mind over time.

Nintendo's beliefs on DLC have clearly shifted as evidenced by mario kart dlc, breathe of the wild dlc, and splatoon. ARMs wasnt even that big and still received multiple characters, stages, and items.
I think we will see more smash bros dlc post fighters pass. the switch is essentially a baby console. and its the first time Nintendo has a chance to long term support a smash game with dlc while on a system with seemingly no clear ceiling. Most games that do dlc are lucky to get an attachment rate of 40-50 percent of the playerbase. i think smash is way above that, combined with its insane sales its printing money.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Characters that appeal to the female audience...?

Well you have the cute ones already there (Kirby, Isabelle, some Pokémon), and handsome guys (Link, Ike, Cloud etc) soooo why not more empowering strong badass female characters?

This is only partially connected to your point, but Bill Trinen of Nintendo said that Luigi was actually one of the most popular lead characters to a female audience according to their market research. So you could put Luigi in the "handsome guys" section.

I'd love another badass female character in smash, but there are other archetypes that appeal to a female audience as well.

 

[3BitSaurus]

haha well I do acknowledge my biases, Layton is my most wanted with Wright as close second. appealing to this market makes sense in my mind right now, but I wanted to bring the point up here to see alternate viewpoints and see what holes my idea might have.

I think the only "hole" that idea has, if you can even call it that, is that the specific demographic of AA/PL is not the only new one the last 2 DLCs could appeal to.

Otherwise, it's a possibility.

 

[SirCamp]

I brought this up in another thread, but I wanted to share it again here to see what others might think. Reading through the last two Nintendo Investor Relations presentations, these were the sections devoted to Smash Ultimate.




There is a repeated notion of Smash bros. appealing to a wide range of consumers, particularly it mentions gender. I find this interesting for two reasons, first is the Smash Ballot. Besides voting for a character, listing what game they come from, and giving a reason why you think the character should be a fighter, the ballot also asked for your gender. Character popularity among gender seems to be an important enough point that they included it into the data collection process. Now with the widening range of consumers, which insinuates that there is a larger female market playing smash, it could make sense that at least one of the last two DLC spots might be a character targeted towards a female audience.

The second point why I find these two excerpts interesting is the timing of our 4th and 5th character. The 3DS is at the end of it's lifespan, and with the announcement of the Switch Lite in September, it's clear that Nintendo's goal with the new console is to get the 3DS crowd to "Switch' over to the Switch. In fact, most of the major planned releases this year are predominately portable titles, such as Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing. What I'm saying is that Nintendo's strategy for the holiday season of 2019 is to appeal to the DS/3DS market, which is when character 4 and 5 will be announced or released.

It could be that I am reading too far into the investor relations, but from what i've gathered it could be possible that character 4 and 5 might be used as apart of a push to attract portable gamers to the console, and reflect it by being characters that are popular with that crowd.

And once again all points in favor of a Story of Seasons character. It's happening y'all!

...I'm turning into Zinith

 

[Zinith]

And once again all points in favor of a Story of Seasons character. It's happening y'all!

...I'm turning into Zinith

YEAH, I would totally advocate a Story of Seasons character!!!

.................what's Story of Seasons?

 

[N3ON]

No idea about the "Thinking about a Capcom" thing, but Depending on the timeframe, that doesn't mean it's a hint. People used the fact that Sakurai wanted Geno in Brawl as a hint to him being in Ultimate after all.

As For Dark Pit, remember, Dark Pit was originally an Alt, not a separate character. It being an actual Animated Trailer done by shaft means it's something that takes more time than a typical CG animation done by Digital Frontier. If it was a hint for anything, it was a hint towards being an Alt costume, not a different playable character.

For Shulk, It was absolutely not a direct tease for Smash. He said he was in a couple projects that he'd get his balls cut off if he disclosed.



That literally is feigning ignorance, though. Again, he has no legal connection to Banjo. Him not knowing is not something out of the ordinary. In fact, I'd say him saying anything else would arouse more suspicion than anything. His entire stance was "Nobody's told me anything, so don't expect it". Grant's not in a position to where his words can directly effect marketing, unlike Kishimoto saying Sora isn't planned for Ultimate. That's a song and dance this fanbase has gone through before with Snake in 3DS/Wii U.

I can't help but notice, perfectchaos, that you didn't address my main point. I mean, Doom Slayer nor Bethesda nor Pete Hines are mentioned once in your reply, and they're presumably the primary topic, right?

Instead going down this path about whether hints were hints or quibbling over what feigning ignorance means would get us lost in the weeds, as both are tangential to the point of my post, which was questioning whether Nintendo would really be furious over what's been said so far, should Doom Slayer actually be included.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Funnily enough, even though she's more or less the same as Peach, Daisy just having a more exuberant attitude over Peach makes her a popular character among women. At least from what I've seen in my online interactions.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I can't help but notice, perfectchaos, that you didn't address my main point. I mean, Doom Slayer nor Bethesda nor Pete Hines are mentioned once in your reply, and they're presumably the primary topic, right?

Instead going down this path about whether hints were hints or quibbling over what feigning ignorance means would get us lost in the weeds, as both are tangential to the point of my post, which was questioning whether Nintendo would really be furious over what's been said so far, should Doom Slayer actually be included.

Because I don't think any of your examples qualify as 'hints' or anything that would really get Nintendo to notice and get mad about.

 

[RileyXY1]

sakurai has said ALOT of things and changed his mind over time.

Nintendo's beliefs on DLC have clearly shifted as evidenced by mario kart dlc, breathe of the wild dlc, and splatoon. ARMs wasnt even that big and still received multiple characters, stages, and items.
I think we will see more smash bros dlc post fighters pass. the switch is essentially a baby console. and its the first time Nintendo has a chance to long term support a smash game with dlc while on a system with seemingly no clear ceiling. Most games that do dlc are lucky to get an attachment rate of 40-50 percent of the playerbase. i think smash is way above that, combined with its insane sales its printing money.

Yeah. It's unlikely that we'll see a new Smash game in the near future so I think that Nintendo will continue to release Smash DLC to tide people over until Nintendo decides to develop the Switch's successor and with it the new Smash game.

 

[N3ON]

Because I don't think any of your examples qualify as 'hints' or anything that would really get Nintendo to notice and get mad about.

But my question is, if Hines is indeed hinting at Doom Slayer in Smash, why would Nintendo get mad? All that's accomplished is getting some people speculating something might happen. It's brought us to the place many characters already reside, hint free, prior to their reveal.

How does what Hines has done effect Nintendo or Smash or the reveal so as to prompt anger? How has it hindered the virality of the trailer, or the performance of the DLC? The mystery is still intact; Hines hasn't given us anything to shift public opinion past "maybe".

 

[perfectchaos83]

But my question is, if Hines is indeed hinting at Doom Slayer in Smash, why would Nintendo get mad? All that's accomplished is getting some people speculating something might happen. It's brought us to the place many characters already reside, hint free, prior to their reveal.

How does what Hines has done effect Nintendo or Smash or the reveal so as to prompt anger? How has it hindered the virality of the trailer, or the performance of the DLC? The mystery is still intact; Hines hasn't given us anything to shift public opinion past "maybe".

It's far more than a maybe. Smash fans eat away at anything. Saying "Oh yeah, we've talked to Nintendo about Smash" IMMEDIATELY sends signals of "Bethesda rep" in Smash. If an NDA is in place, even saying that is liable to break it based on the few NDAs I've signed in my own workplace. To me, if it's a hint of anything, it's "There's no Bethesda rep" in Smash, something Nintendo wouldn't be upset about.

 

[SirCamp]

YEAH, I would totally advocate a Story of Seasons character!!!

.................what's Story of Seasons?

I just meant because I'm turning every conversation back to the character I want to talk about.

But Story of Seasons is just the new name for Harvest Moon. Or if you don't know what that is, its a farming sim game.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I will say that I don't think the fighter pass will be the end of DLC right now but I doubt there'll be a second one.

After all, Pokken only added two Pokemon in DLC even when the brand name alone would have facilitated much more.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

This fan base takes everything as a Smash hint.

-A window in a Shantae trailer
-Chairs
-A witch stage
-The colors on a website
-Anytime any voice actor connected to Nintendo in any capacity says, “I’m doing voice work for something I can’t talk about”

I don’t think there’s any doubt that, regardless of what any dev for any game were to say, fans would say, “Smash???” regarding a LOT of different things, at no fault of the developer in question. It’s already been proven that during prime Smash speculation season, fans will latch onto pretty much anything and twist it to mean something Smash related.

I don’t think Nintendo would have anger toward anybody from Bethesda, as not all of his comments have been about Smash. When he did say Smash, he didn’t even specify if there were anything actually added. We don’t know if DoomSlayer is in as playable, Mii Fighter, nothing really.

Pretty much anybody who says they have some, “surprises in store” for Nintendo fans will be taken as Smash. It’s the nature of the fan base.

I still think Doom Slayer is fair game. Doesn’t mean rock solid “he’s in”. But fair game.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Apparently Shantae's window looked like the Smash logo in a previous game or two so I don't really get why people think it's a hint, especially with Way Forward being big Smash fans.

People used the fact that Sakurai wanted Geno in Brawl as a hint to him being in Ultimate after all.

A lot of people took that as something that may add to the possibility of Geno in Ultimate alongside other things since Sakurai likes him, but not as hints like "Duck Hunt used feathers and they're in a jungle setting, we must be getting Crash!" for example.

 

[blackghost]

"smash isn't everything, its just the only thing that matters"
-smash fans thought process.
if you get this reference you are my new bff.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I brought this up in another thread, but I wanted to share it again here to see what others might think. Reading through the last two Nintendo Investor Relations presentations, these were the sections devoted to Smash Ultimate.




There is a repeated notion of Smash bros. appealing to a wide range of consumers, particularly it mentions gender. I find this interesting for two reasons, first is the Smash Ballot. Besides voting for a character, listing what game they come from, and giving a reason why you think the character should be a fighter, the ballot also asked for your gender. Character popularity among gender seems to be an important enough point that they included it into the data collection process. Now with the widening range of consumers, which insinuates that there is a larger female market playing smash, it could make sense that at least one of the last two DLC spots might be a character targeted towards a female audience.

The second point why I find these two excerpts interesting is the timing of our 4th and 5th character. The 3DS is at the end of it's lifespan, and with the announcement of the Switch Lite in September, it's clear that Nintendo's goal with the new console is to get the 3DS crowd to "Switch' over to the Switch. In fact, most of the major planned releases this year are predominately portable titles, such as Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing. What I'm saying is that Nintendo's strategy for the holiday season of 2019 is to appeal to the DS/3DS market, which is when character 4 and 5 will be announced or released.

It could be that I am reading too far into the investor relations, but from what i've gathered it could be possible that character 4 and 5 might be used as apart of a push to attract portable gamers to the console, and reflect it by being characters that are popular with that crowd.

Huh that's actually pretty interesting. It certainly gives a bit more leeway to someone like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton making it in, or even a Harvest Moon character. This could also point towards something with cross appeal to casual and hardcore audiences such as Undertale, since those kinds of games also happen to have a decently sized female audience. I'm willing to bet that the last two characters are going to be someone from a more casual-oriented game and someone from a gritty M-rated game to get both casual and hardcore gamers on board with the fighters pass.

 

[Door Key Pig]

*Ponders if rhythm games have a notable female demographic...*

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

I think, think and think, and I can not get my mind on Minecraft Steve. It will probably be added. And with elements in Moveset similar to Builder Mario of Mario Maker 2. And all this would be because he could be a representative of indie games added to its great importance in the world of games, as can be proven in the fact that it is now transmigrated, and also in sales of its various titles and size of its community. And with so many games in the series coming out exclusively to Switch ...

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

I wonder if Nintendo would release hero near the time Evo 2019 arrives.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think, think and think, and I can not get my mind on Minecraft Steve. It will probably be added. And with elements in Moveset similar to Builder Mario of Mario Maker 2. And all this would be because he could be a representative of indie games added to its great importance in the world of games, as can be proven in the fact that it is now transmigrated, and also in sales of its various titles and size of its community. And with so many games in the series coming out exclusively to Switch ...

I'd love Steve, but I'm not sure he's gonna happen this time.

I think he'd only have one or two moves similar to Builder Mario, though.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I wonder if Nintendo would release hero near the time Evo 2019 arrives.

This is my guess

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

Anyway. I would like to draw attention to new topics as well. How: Sakurai would add new character skins? Like a Big Boss or Knuckles / Shandow? And new Asssist Trophy's? Many characters could be at least trophies, or bosses, or skins, or depicted in Mii's outfits.
Other than that for a long time I think of the possibility of doing my own Target Smash's and sharing them, as in Mario Maker. Maybe with specific goals like using a spike move, defeating an enemy in a way, using a Pokémon, dealing with a type of helper, jumping in a place ... It would be perfect for an Adventure Mode too, with a good idea. And my God !! Why they gave up the Master Pieces. At one time ago I imagined some kind of Arcade Zone to spend our game coins there.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Actually, this whole talk about the fourth character being a more casual pick has got me wondering if Digimon would technically fall into that category. I mean it did start off as a digital pet and most people are familiar with it through the anime, so it could be a pretty decent "casual" pick. I can't say much for if Digimon has that big of a female following, but I know a lot of girls had Tamogatchis back when they were in their prime so I wouldn't be surprised if it had a decent sized female fanbase. If the Mii Costume theory turns out to be true and we do end up with a Bandai-Namco character, there might actually be a pretty decent chance of a Digimon making it in. I've only ever watched Tamers so I don't really have a horse in the Digimon in Smash race, but it's something to think about

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, this whole talk about the fourth character being a more casual pick has got me wondering if Digimon would technically fall into that category. I mean it did start off as a digital pet and most people are familiar with it through the anime, so it could be a pretty decent "casual" pick. I can't say much for if Digimon has that big of a female following, but I know a lot of girls had Tamogatchis back when they were in their prime so I wouldn't be surprised if it had a decent sized female fanbase. If the Mii Costume theory turns out to be true and we do end up with a Bandai-Namco character, there might actually be a pretty decent chance of a Digimon making it in. I've only ever watched Tamers so I don't really have a horse in the Digimon in Smash race, but it's something to think about

I would think that they would pick a Tamagotchi if they were to appeal the female fanbase instead of Digimon in that case, given that the demographic of Digimon is boys.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually, this whole talk about the fourth character being a more casual pick has got me wondering if Digimon would technically fall into that category. I mean it did start off as a digital pet and most people are familiar with it through the anime, so it could be a pretty decent "casual" pick. I can't say much for if Digimon has that big of a female following, but I know a lot of girls had Tamogatchis back when they were in their prime so I wouldn't be surprised if it had a decent sized female fanbase. If the Mii Costume theory turns out to be true and we do end up with a Bandai-Namco character, there might actually be a pretty decent chance of a Digimon making it in. I've only ever watched Tamers so I don't really have a horse in the Digimon in Smash race, but it's something to think about

Digimon isn't really a casual series to begin with. The original toys to some degree, but the requirements for Evolution can get extremely ridiculous. The anime are far more casual in comparison, while the games are more for hardcore fans who are willing to put up with some asinine requirements.

The anime was mixed too, as was the manga. But those were also worldwide as well(well, anime for the most part). People enjoyed things like the music, the well-done choreography for evolution scenes, and some pretty awesome fight scenes alone. It also helped to create way more popular lines, like Agumon's regular line. It popularized MetalGreymon as being a Vaccine attribute instead of Virus, the Devimon and Myotismon lines being villains by default(even when they aren't always evil in every specific media, but it isn't surprising that the devil characters are by default bad guys), and the Digivices became way more popular here. Which more or less are similar to what the Virtual Pets are(same idea, the anime just made it a mechanic).

Anyway, Agumon would be an amazing pick, but his evolutions are a huge part and very important. Especially since going to 2 or 3 more levels is really important overall. This is a lot of work to do. I can see why he might be something that was considered but dismissed for being potentially harder to create than Pokemon Trainer too. And that's saying something. There's other things like how to activate the Evolutions(which have so many damn requirements among the games, that finding one clear solution can be asinine).

 

[lordvaati]

Digimon originated as being marketed as a hardcore variant of Tamagotchis so I'd say that the last thing they would be considered is a casual franchise.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

I think Yo-kai Watch is a lot more fitting to the casual demographic (Mostly in japan) than Digimon.

 

[Garteam]

I really like the idea of Doom Slayer, but he has a massive issue in the fact that he's not popular in the Japanese market. While had to deal with the fact he's not very well-known outside of Japan, Sakurai included a costume based on Dragon Quest VIII to better sell the character to international audiences. To my knowledge, Doom's never had a success in Japan relative to the success that Dragon Quest VIII had in the West.

Granted, and were able to overcome a lack of Japanese support, so maybe I'll be totally wrong about this.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

[OFF] Sorry for asking in the wrong place but I would like to know if there is any project, such as Project M in the past, being made on Smash Ultimate. For this time I would very much like to be able to participate in it. Since I at least know how to animate in Blender. As well as having my own ideas for testing and experimenting.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I really like the idea of Doom Slayer, but he has a massive issue in the fact that he's not popular in the Japanese market. While had to deal with the fact he's not very well-known outside of Japan, Sakurai included a costume based on Dragon Quest VIII to better sell the character to international audiences. To my knowledge, Doom's never had a success in Japan relative to the success that Dragon Quest VIII had in the West.

Granted, and were able to overcome a lack of Japanese support, so maybe I'll be totally wrong about this.

The difference is that they're both 1st party characters added to the base game so it's less risky for them, this is DLC, so it's ideal for Nintendo to add guests with notability worldwide to make a profit.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The difference is that they're both 1st party characters added to the base game so it's less risky for them, this is DLC, so it's ideal for Nintendo to add guests with notability worldwide to make a profit.

Which is pretty much why Luminary is the blatant face, not Erdrick. They needed someone who people would easily know. Marketing helped a lot too. Eight being popular worldwide makes sense too.

Though I don't remember it being stated(like the previous user said) that he included Eight for the sake of making him sell better so much as a gift to more Western fans. I might've misread the tweet, though.

 

[KillerCage]

I really like the idea of Doom Slayer, but he has a massive issue in the fact that he's not popular in the Japanese market. While had to deal with the fact he's not very well-known outside of Japan, Sakurai included a costume based on Dragon Quest VIII to better sell the character to international audiences. To my knowledge, Doom's never had a success in Japan relative to the success that Dragon Quest VIII had in the West.

Granted, and were able to overcome a lack of Japanese support, so maybe I'll be totally wrong about this.

I think Doom has the same problem that Dragon Quest had, just reversed. While Dragon Quest is recognized in the West for its importance in gaming, the series is NOT very popular over here at least to my knowledge. Likewise Japan has acknowledged Doom's contributions to gaming; it's just that first-person shooters are not popular in the Land of the Rising Sun.

 

[Theanimator10]

Would Undertale be popular with the female fanbase?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What's this about a character pleasing a female fanbase?

If so I can easily see Dante being one for sure.

 

[KillerCage]

Would Undertale be popular with the female fanbase?

I wouldn't be surprised if Undertale has a large female fanbase considering all of the fan-made content over the years.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Doom has the same problem that Dragon Quest had, just reversed. While Dragon Quest is recognized in the West for its importance in gaming, the series is NOT very popular over here at least to my knowledge. Likewise Japan has acknowledged Doom's contributions to gaming; it's just that first-person shooters are not popular in the Land of the Rising Sun.

DQ VIII and IX broke a million sales in the west and shipments of the original Dragon Warrior broke a million thanks to Nintendo Power subscriptions, plus as a series DQ is way bigger in Japan than what Doom is in the west. As a series you have to remember that DQ is mostly a series with deep connection with Nintendo as being a series more focused on consoles while Doom is a series that has been more focused on being released on PCs.

If I'm being frank, Doom is not only the same problem as DQ but also you have to amplify it. If we talk about Bethesda, I'll keep saying it but people are sleeping hard on the Dragonborn.

 

[tenworldsguy]

I just meant because I'm turning every conversation back to the character I want to talk about.

sweats nervously in shameless Pikmin fanboy who thinks a minor character will be DLC for smash ultimate