Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

GoodGrief741

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resident evil at its best is a game where often the correct approach is to not fight and conserve resources for emergencies or surprises.
So is Metal Gear though.
I am playing through Brawl and SSE this week. Wow, it was a really good adventure. The variety of enemies and stage designs were very creative. I really wish Sakurai would have given us SSE2. It would be fun to see the new characters in the mix.

A port of the original SSE to Smash Ultimate would be cool (they can cut the movies).
But the cutscenes are the best part!
 
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Yeah, the biggest issue with horror characters in fighting games is that most horror protagonists can't fight, and placing the monster in the fighting game would make it not scary. Resident Evil would definitely be able to sidestep this since all its protagonists have guns.
This is because despite the combat being kinda tactical in RE, it still uses action elements for the most part. It's not like, say, Silent Hill, which hinges more on the psychological and would be harder to translate.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I mean, Metal Gear is known for both dramatic cutscenes, and stealth gameplay...neither of which take a central role in Snakes move set.

Resident Evil also takes a different approach to horror, as it’s not just the dark streets and hallways, or terrifying creatures: it’s the mere fact that you can run out of ways to defend yourself if you’re reckless with your supplies.

In Smash, that easily works as an inventory management move set similar to Robin, but with ammo, herbs, and explosives. Sure, it might be like Snake’s stage control, but with added risk reward to it.

Sounds good to me!

Even then, if we argue Resident Evil doesn’t have true potential because it’s horror, then what does that give Phoenix Wright? He’s a lawyer who shouts, “Objection!”. You absolutely have to take liberties with that, as with any character that could plausibly get into Smash.
 
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ROBnWatch

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Ten would be a nice parallel to Brawl's mode, which also had ten. Though by my count, there are that many possible bosses already in Ultimate, even without the stage bosses, if one splits up both Dharkon and Galeem and the Hands, as Brawl's mode did.
Well, they could, I just kinda feel like Galeem and Dharkon are both “Tabuu”s of this game, in that they’re both extremely powerful above the rest of the bosses. So I feel that they’d need to make the boss rush mode end with one of them, and having the other one in there as either the second to last boss or just somewhere else in the middle of the other 9 makes it too predictable (for the former option), or anticlimactic (for the latter). I dunno, probably just some weird OCD I’m feeling that honestly wouldn’t get in the way of anything, lol.

Speaking of Tabuu...can we get him back too if they add additional bosses??? (Even though it might seem contradictory considering what I just said earlier, lol.)
 
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I mean, Metal Gear is known for both dramatic cutscenes, and stealth gameplay...neither of which take a central role in Snakes move set.

Resident Evil also takes a different approach to horror, as it’s not just the dark streets and hallways, or terrifying creatures: it’s the mere fact that you can run out of ways to defend yourself if you’re reckless with your supplies.

In Smash, that easily works as an inventory management move set similar to Robin, but with ammo, herbs, and explosives. Sure, it might be like Snake’s stage control, but with added risk reward to it.

Sounds good to me!
Strangely enough, by removing Snake's guns and leaving only explosives, we did end up with a playstyle that feels very tactical for him. No stealth is... kind of a given, Smash being a fighting game and all, but his archetype kinda seems to be there, even if modified.

I feel like Snake would be less tactical if he actually used guns.
 

tenworldsguy

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If they did add new bosses I'd like to see at least one boss per franchise like:
Super Mario: Giga Bowser
Donkey Kong: ???(There aren't really any good candidates here since the notable ones are invulnerable for most of the fight)
The Legend of Zelda:Ganon
Metroid: Phantoon
Yoshi: ???
Star Fox: Andross
Pokémon: Rayquaza
EarthBound: Porky
F-Zero: ???
Ice Climber: Polar Bear?
Fire Emblem: That dragon dude from Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon. (I think his name was Malechi or something.)
Game & Watch: Duon
Kid Icarus: Medusa from Kid Icarus (the first one)
WarioWare: The Shake King
Metal Gear: ???
Sonic The Hedgehog: Dr. Eggman
Pikmin: Water Wraith
R.O.B.: Labo Mech?
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
Mega Man: Yellow Devil from Mega Man: The Power Fighters
Wii Fit: ???
Punch Out!!: Mr. Sandman
Super Smash Bros.: Master Hand & Crazy Hand and Galeem & Dharkon
Pac-Man: ???
Xenoblade Chronicles: Metal Face
Duck Hunt: ???
Final Fantasy: No one because Square Enix
Splatoon: DJ Octavio
Castlevania: Dracula
DLC: I don't expect any DLC series bosses.
Not that I expect 30 bosses, but it would be cool to have a good 12-16 of them.
I'll do my list of bosses real quick, bc i do feel that there are a few cool potential bosses ye missed out on.
Assume that WOL bosses are not actually there, so i'll go with a fresh slate.
:ultmario:- an Odyssey boss (maybe Bowser's version from that game), a Galaxy Boss like Megaleg, or maybe just Bowser's Airship or Giga Bowser.
:ultdk:- presumably the final bosses of Returns or TF but I think a varient of Rool like Kaptain K Rool would be nice
:ultyoshi:- Kamek. Mage bosses> a baby version of Giga Bowser.
:ultwario:- No clue, maybe Syrup or the Shake King?
:ultlink:- I personally support Ghirahim, but any form of Ganon would work better.
:ultsamus:- Mother Brain, Kraid, or Meta Ridley. A hunter from MP series would be nice tho
:ultfox:- Gigarillia or Andross. (I don't know much about SF sadly)
:ultkirby:- Marx, Magalor, or Void Termina. Marx is more realistic tho- Sakuri bias be wild
:ultpikachu:- Ultra Necrozma easily. We could also do like a Pokemon trainer esque boss like Ghetsis.
:ultfalcon:- No clue on F0 mostly, but I'll say Blood Falcon in his car for an interesting and unique fight.
:ultness:- Porky realistically, but I want him as a fighter so maybe a different Mother boss like Giygu.
:ultmarth:- Grima or Black Knight.
:ultpit:- like any character from Uprising. Medusa, Hades, Viridi, even Phosphora or Magnus.
:ultsonic:- Eggman or Perfect Chaos.
:ultsnake:- am uncultured swine, so i'll say the Metal Gear machine itself.
:ultolimar:- Titan Dweevil.
:ultshulk:- Metal Face, someone from 2, basically any major character from any of the games would be a good fight
:ultmegaman:- Dr Wily easily.
:ultmiifighters:- Dark Lord seems to be the easy bet.
:ultryu:- uncultured once more. I will say that one criminal guy with the glowing eyes, or Evil Ryu if you wanna go the easy route.
:ultpacman:- the ghosts or some boss from the Pac-World series.
:ultbayonetta:- :/ once more. Maybe the final boss from 1?
:ultcloud:- Kefka or Sephiroth.
:ultsimon:- Dracula of course. We could also do evil Soma from DoS, who's basically a more powerful and anime Dracula anyways
:ultjoker:- Pancakes would be a cool boss fight, or any of the Palace bosses.
:ulthero:- Dragon Lord. What good is a dragon quest rep without a dragon lord to slay?
:ultbanjokazooie:- Gruntilda, but only on the exception she makes bad jokes at every fighter's expense.
Also put various Smash series bosses in (Duon, Galleon, Tabuu, etc) for the fun of it

joke suggestions for the weird one-offs that aren't known for conflict:
:ultvillager:- Tom Nook himself (let us fight Nook, Sakuri)
:ultwiifittrainer:- obesity or Ronald McDonald.
:ulticeclimbers:-Global Warming
:ultgnw:- a video game crash
:ultrob:- some child irl? since ROB is a plastic toy after all...
:ultduckhunt:- a flock of ducks (Duck Hunt Duck has turned against his comrades it would seem)
 

OrpheusTelos

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I mean, Metal Gear is known for both dramatic cutscenes, and stealth gameplay...neither of which take a central role in Snakes move set.

Resident Evil also takes a different approach to horror, as it’s not just the dark streets and hallways, or terrifying creatures: it’s the mere fact that you can run out of ways to defend yourself if you’re reckless with your supplies.

In Smash, that easily works as an inventory management move set similar to Robin, but with ammo, herbs, and explosives. Sure, it might be like Snake’s stage control, but with added risk reward to it.

Sounds good to me!

Even then, if we argue Resident Evil doesn’t have true potential because it’s horror, then what does that give Phoenix Wright? He’s a lawyer who shouts, “Objection!”. You absolutely have to take liberties with that, as with any character that could plausibly get into Smash.
I was about to argue the same thing, but you already beat me to it lol. Also the whole survival horror aspect of Resident Evil didn't stop Capcom from adding its characters to Marvel vs Capcom, so I doubt that's much of an issue. I think a risk/reward fighting style would suit a potential Resi character perfectly and help them stick out from their other fighting game appearances. I should probably sit down and try to make a moveset for Leon or Jill whenever I get the time, since I have quite a few ideas floating around in my head
 

Leotsune

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Even then, if we argue Resident Evil doesn’t have true potential because it’s horror, then what does that give Phoenix Wright? He’s a lawyer who shouts, “Objection!”. You absolutely have to take liberties with that, as with any character that could plausibly get into Smash.
Phoenix Wright is on a total different level when it comes to taking liberties, 90% of his moveset would be totally original and there isn't much to take inspiration from either.
A lawyer form a visual novel, who isn't that athletic to begin with, I can't think of bigger challenge design-wise (Aside from a tetris block).
 

Ahm Skittish!

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Phoenix Wright is on a total different level when it comes to taking liberties, 90% of his moveset would be totally original and there isn't much to take inspiration from either.
A lawyer form a visual novel, who isn't that athletic to begin with, I can't think of bigger challenge design-wise (Aside from a tetris block).
The funny thing is Captain Falcon didn't have anything from his series to outright take from either. Best he had was a gun, and that's just part of Falcon's own suit. He never uses it in Smash. Sure, some moves feel like they kind of fit as being alike what you can do in his vehicle, but he was based upon Japanese superheroes instead. The fire effects though are an easy holdover from the series, though the reasoning behind that is hard to say. Cause you crash and burn a lot? Cause you can create some energy to slam into others? Even Fox felt a lot more obvious with his specials.

So it's not like it's impossible to find inspiration for Phoenix at all. I do agree he's going to need to take a lot more liberties, but it feels like more looking for a character archtype instead of just using MVC as a reference. Another thing is looking at some of the animations from other character. Giving him a mishmash moveset of the series(akin to what Ness does) is a potential way to do so.

That said, I don't remember reading any Smash movesets for him, but it sounds like a fun challenge to me~
 

Idon

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Phoenix Wright does have a lot of iconic gesturing though, which could easily translate to a moveset. Table slams, paper slaps, points, not to mention his iconic text boxes and his weirder things like the magatama breaking chains and locks and such.

Honestly, it'd be harder to make a moveset for someone who's actually a fighter with no singularly recognizable moves.
wait when was dante deconfrimed? and what was the source?
I believe Matt Walker deconfirmed Dante twice in the beginning and end of 2018 and Itsuno said that for Dante to be in Smash, there should at least be a DMC game on a Nintendo console, so ask Nintendo for that first. Both point to him not making an appearance, but I'm hoping with DMC1 on the Switch it's all some major ruse to keep us offguard for when Dante is announced.

Or maybe he's just not in and I'm holding out hope over nothing, lol.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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After Grant Kirkhope saying "Don't hold your breath" about:ultbanjokazooie:

I think anyone deconfirming a character such as Dante is pretty much debunked.
To be honest, I think it’s more of a “soft disconfirmation”, as in, it’s not official but it’s fair to assume it’s not happening.

I personally would love Dante but I don’t know that it’s the same situation. I just wouldn’t rule him out entirely.
—-
Anyway, I do want to go over some stuff with Resident Evil, or at least some stuff that folks think could rule it out.

1) If the “genre” of survival horror being already represented is a problem, then why was it not a problem for several RPG characters to get into Smash after each other? Why is Dragon Quest in after Final Fantasy?

It’s because they’re legacy series that are different from one another, and are recognizable. Resident Evil can clearly differentiate itself from Fatal Frame.

2) Resident Evil will be fine in terms of gameplay potential. If they can make a move set entirely out of yoga moves and poses, I don’t think taking a character from a game that has iconic (and silly) moves will be tough. Leon with a roundhouse, suplex, grenades, inventory system, or even zombie summoning like Jill in MvC2...there are plenty of options there.

3) If violence is an issue, then it would certainly be toned down. MvC has zombies with green ooze as opposed to blood/gore.

Similarly, when it comes to the usage of a firearm, Joker literally uses a pistol. It’s apparently fine at this point.

4) While other series could be added (I hate talking about sales, BUT), Resident Evil is the largest Japanese-creates series not represented in Smash at this point in time. It’s MASSIVE in size, and could offer unique aspects to effectively every facet of Smash, with iconic characters, locations for stages, music perfect for remixes, and spirits that could be applied to several Smash characters.

Other series have this too. They just aren’t as big as Resident Evil. Not to discredit any other series, but there are a LOT of really great series in the running for Smash but...nothing is as big as it.

It would be a HUGE addition.
 

ssb Recon

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I think the last 2 will be some form of FireHouse representation, Probably a 3 houses rep.
and the last newcomer will probably be the most unexpected.

I had a halfbaked theory that Waddle Dee is the final newcomer in Ultimate, and the trailer opens up with Kirb Dx3 MK and them eating at a picnic and Waddle Dee and Sakurai show up, they all eat together and Sakurai pulls a "thank you for to play my games!" then sends ultimate and smash bros off on a farewell
 

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If they did add new bosses I'd like to see at least one boss per franchise like:
Fire Emblem: That dragon dude from Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon. (I think his name was Malechi or something.)
For the record, you're thinking of Medeus.
 
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N3ON

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After Grant Kirkhope saying "Don't hold your breath" about:ultbanjokazooie:

I think anyone deconfirming a character such as Dante is pretty much debunked.
You never know for sure, but just because one of them was lying doesn't negate the like 98% that weren't in the past and probably aren't now.

This fanbase has a habit of basing expectations on exceptions.
 
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The funny thing is Captain Falcon didn't have anything from his series to outright take from either. Best he had was a gun, and that's just part of Falcon's own suit. He never uses it in Smash. Sure, some moves feel like they kind of fit as being alike what you can do in his vehicle, but he was based upon Japanese superheroes instead. The fire effects though are an easy holdover from the series, though the reasoning behind that is hard to say. Cause you crash and burn a lot? Cause you can create some energy to slam into others? Even Fox felt a lot more obvious with his specials.

So it's not like it's impossible to find inspiration for Phoenix at all. I do agree he's going to need to take a lot more liberties, but it feels like more looking for a character archtype instead of just using MVC as a reference. Another thing is looking at some of the animations from other character. Giving him a mishmash moveset of the series(akin to what Ness does) is a potential way to do so.

That said, I don't remember reading any Smash movesets for him, but it sounds like a fun challenge to me~
Captain Falcon at least had that comic which showed that he was a capable fighter. Though to be fair the only physical attacks we saw him use in that were an uppercut and an elbow strike which were moves they didn’t even give him when addIng him to Smash lol.

I actually say a really good moveset video for Phoenix Wright awhile back. Here it is.

If anyone is interested in seeing how Phoenix Wright could play in Smash or you’re just a fan of the character/series you should check it out.
 

DutchPichu

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What do you guys think is likely: getting a second fighter pass, getting a few bonus fighters or getting nothing at all after this fighter pass?

I would say nothing, or maybe one bonus fighter. And if we get this bonus fighter, it must be Geno. To close off the Ultimate Smash Bros. cycle with one of the most frequently asked Smash characters would make Ultimate feel “Ultimate”.
 

Idon

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What do you guys think is likely: getting a second fighter pass, getting a few bonus fighters or getting nothing at all after this fighter pass?

I would say nothing, or maybe one bonus fighter. And if we get this bonus fighter, it must be Geno. To close off the Ultimate Smash Bros. cycle with one of the most frequently asked Smash characters would make Ultimate feel “Ultimate”.
In order of likelihood:
Nothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> miscellaenous fighters > fighter's pass 2.
 

osby

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What do you guys think is likely: getting a second fighter pass, getting a few bonus fighters or getting nothing at all after this fighter pass?

I would say nothing, or maybe one bonus fighter. And if we get this bonus fighter, it must be Geno. To close off the Ultimate Smash Bros. cycle with one of the most frequently asked Smash characters would make Ultimate feel “Ultimate”.
Nothing.

I'm tired of people trying to chalk up their wishlists to an arbitrary condition for this game "feel like Ultimate".

We already have multiple characters that appeal to fan poll crowd and Sakurai demostrated multiple times that he doesn't plan final reveals with them in mind.
 
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What do you guys think is likely: getting a second fighter pass, getting a few bonus fighters or getting nothing at all after this fighter pass?

I would say nothing, or maybe one bonus fighter. And if we get this bonus fighter, it must be Geno. To close off the Ultimate Smash Bros. cycle with one of the most frequently asked Smash characters would make Ultimate feel “Ultimate”.
I firmly believe we're just getting the Fighter Pass characters and then it's done, but if, and that's a BIG if, there is a bonus, I think there'll only be one.

And I think it'd be Kasumi as a Joker echo if only because we pretty much know she existed at some point. That's pretty much the only "bonus" case I could see.
 

Nquoid

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I'm so confused by this rollout so far. Obviously the wait was long last DLC cycle, but shoving the longest wait for characters when you're riding high from E3 hype seems weird.

Obviously Nintendo has a packed schedule for the rest of the year so Hero probably has to drop before Astral Chain comes out in late August.

Then we have the Direct rumours swirling around, and there was a Smash Direct last August, but I can't imagine they have enough for a full Smash direct rather than just a New Content video. Unless it's a full Direct, but we're only two months out from E3, we know the lay of the land for the rest of the year and the Switch Lite and Luigi's Mansion 3 release dates got put out in random small updates.

So basically, Nintendo will just continue to Nintendo
 

N3ON

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What do you guys think is likely: getting a second fighter pass, getting a few bonus fighters or getting nothing at all after this fighter pass?

I would say nothing, or maybe one bonus fighter. And if we get this bonus fighter, it must be Geno. To close off the Ultimate Smash Bros. cycle with one of the most frequently asked Smash characters would make Ultimate feel “Ultimate”.
Even if we do get a bonus character, I don't quite understand the circumstances whereby an additional third-party would be included, yet not wind up in the pack. If they always had the intention to include him, why not just expand the pack? If the intention came later, what would prompt Sakurai to, mid-way through DLC, reconsider Geno, a character that for the past thirteen+ years he's known has substantial popularity? It's not like that's new info to him. Or really, which third-party in general would be so pressing to include, at this point, the previous five wouldn't suffice and they'd reschedule DLC around it?

Should we get a bonus character, the only thing I can imagine Nintendo would value enough to prolong development would be a promotional first-party addition.

I'm so confused by this rollout so far. Obviously the wait was long last DLC cycle, but shoving the longest wait for characters when you're riding high from E3 hype seems weird.

Obviously Nintendo has a packed schedule for the rest of the year so Hero probably has to drop before Astral Chain comes out in late August.

Then we have the Direct rumours swirling around, and there was a Smash Direct last August, but I can't imagine they have enough for a full Smash direct rather than just a New Content video. Unless it's a full Direct, but we're only two months out from E3, we know the lay of the land for the rest of the year and the Switch Lite and Luigi's Mansion 3 release dates got put out in random small updates.

So basically, Nintendo will just continue to Nintendo
Well we did have four characters by now with Smash 4's DLC, but the trade-off was then waiting half a year until Cloud released in December, facing nothing but complete silence the majority of that time.

I think I'd rather have it this way. It was nice getting four characters within the span of two months, but then the rest of the time, except right at the end, was basically nothingness. Like probably 75% of that cycle, all we had was either a render of Mewtwo, or nothing.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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Captain Falcon at least had that comic which showed that he was a capable fighter. Though to be fair the only physical attacks we saw him use in that were an uppercut and an elbow strike which were moves they didn’t even give him when addIng him to Smash lol.

I actually say a really good moveset video for Phoenix Wright awhile back. Here it is.

If anyone is interested in seeing how Phoenix Wright could play in Smash or you’re just a fan of the character/series you should check it out.
The comic clearly didn't give him a moveset. Though what I was talking about was actual moveset abilities, which weren't translatable to Smash very easily. Phoenix has a lot more in-game actions that are in comparison. Capable of fighting wasn't even on my mind, and I doubt it much matters when we have many who have shown zero capabilities(R.O.B. Villager, Isabelle, Wii Fit Trainer, etc). However, Falcon's Up Smash in 64 is partially an uppercut while being an elbow strike, so it's still somewhat there. He also gets two in Melee with his Forward Smash being an Elbow Strike and his Forward B being an uppercut when used on the Ground.
 

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I'll do my list of bosses real quick, bc i do feel that there are a few cool potential bosses ye missed out on.
Assume that WOL bosses are not actually there, so i'll go with a fresh slate.
:ultmario:- an Odyssey boss (maybe Bowser's version from that game), a Galaxy Boss like Megaleg, or maybe just Bowser's Airship or Giga Bowser.
:ultdk:- presumably the final bosses of Returns or TF but I think a varient of Rool like Kaptain K Rool would be nice
:ultyoshi:- Kamek. Mage bosses> a baby version of Giga Bowser.
:ultwario:- No clue, maybe Syrup or the Shake King?
:ultlink:- I personally support Ghirahim, but any form of Ganon would work better.
:ultsamus:- Mother Brain, Kraid, or Meta Ridley. A hunter from MP series would be nice tho
:ultfox:- Gigarillia or Andross. (I don't know much about SF sadly)
:ultkirby:- Marx, Magalor, or Void Termina. Marx is more realistic tho- Sakuri bias be wild
:ultpikachu:- Ultra Necrozma easily. We could also do like a Pokemon trainer esque boss like Ghetsis.
:ultfalcon:- No clue on F0 mostly, but I'll say Blood Falcon in his car for an interesting and unique fight.
:ultness:- Porky realistically, but I want him as a fighter so maybe a different Mother boss like Giygu.
:ultmarth:- Grima or Black Knight.
:ultpit:- like any character from Uprising. Medusa, Hades, Viridi, even Phosphora or Magnus.
:ultsonic:- Eggman or Perfect Chaos.
:ultsnake:- am uncultured swine, so i'll say the Metal Gear machine itself.
:ultolimar:- Titan Dweevil.
:ultshulk:- Metal Face, someone from 2, basically any major character from any of the games would be a good fight
:ultmegaman:- Dr Wily easily.
:ultmiifighters:- Dark Lord seems to be the easy bet.
:ultryu:- uncultured once more. I will say that one criminal guy with the glowing eyes, or Evil Ryu if you wanna go the easy route.
:ultpacman:- the ghosts or some boss from the Pac-World series.
:ultbayonetta:- :/ once more. Maybe the final boss from 1?
:ultcloud:- Kefka or Sephiroth.
:ultsimon:- Dracula of course. We could also do evil Soma from DoS, who's basically a more powerful and anime Dracula anyways
:ultjoker:- Pancakes would be a cool boss fight, or any of the Palace bosses.
:ulthero:- Dragon Lord. What good is a dragon quest rep without a dragon lord to slay?
:ultbanjokazooie:- Gruntilda, but only on the exception she makes bad jokes at every fighter's expense.
Also put various Smash series bosses in (Duon, Galleon, Tabuu, etc) for the fun of it

joke suggestions for the weird one-offs that aren't known for conflict:
:ultvillager:- Tom Nook himself (let us fight Nook, Sakuri)
:ultwiifittrainer:- obesity or Ronald McDonald.
:ulticeclimbers:-Global Warming
:ultgnw:- a video game crash
:ultrob:- some child irl? since ROB is a plastic toy after all...
:ultduckhunt:- a flock of ducks (Duck Hunt Duck has turned against his comrades it would seem)
Shouldn’t R.O.B. be the one to fight a video game crash since he saved the video game market back in 1983-85?

Oh you meant like a game crash, not an industry crash.

What do you guys think is likely: getting a second fighter pass, getting a few bonus fighters or getting nothing at all after this fighter pass?

I would say nothing, or maybe one bonus fighter. And if we get this bonus fighter, it must be Geno. To close off the Ultimate Smash Bros. cycle with one of the most frequently asked Smash characters would make Ultimate feel “Ultimate”.
I’d assume nothing. But if we do get something more, I personally would enjoy something like a second Fighters Pass with only 2-3 unique fighters and 1-2 Echoes. I really don’t think, if we get more after this, that it will include as much as the first Fighters Pass.
 
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What do you guys think is likely: getting a second fighter pass, getting a few bonus fighters or getting nothing at all after this fighter pass?

I would say nothing, or maybe one bonus fighter. And if we get this bonus fighter, it must be Geno. To close off the Ultimate Smash Bros. cycle with one of the most frequently asked Smash characters would make Ultimate feel “Ultimate”.
I mean Nintendo has shown they can support Splatoon 2 for a couple years, and Ultimate sold insanely well, so maybe it's possible there's general audience interest they can maintain for at least that long. They seem to be putting a lot of money into this DLC with the CGI trailers, and the reaction they've gotten from the characters so far seems very big and positive, though whether that translates into them and/or the pass selling well, I couldn't tell you. I also have to wonder if, even if poor Sakurai wanted a break, if it'd totally be up to him to decide more DLC or Nintendo.

Surprisingly, the attitude towards DLC as stated in Sakurai's book, could still be on the "sometimes it's better to move onto the next game!" DESPITE this being a very special roster. Though again, they clearly put money into them with the CGI trailers at least and were able to develop Stage Builder after the base game too, and that's assuming there's not another new mode or two coming. So it seems like they still successfully have the team and money with them needed for DLC content at least for now.

I don't know if specifically a bonus character outside-but-near the Fighter's Pass would be a thing if they could have just made that hypothetical character one of the Fighter's Pass characters. Though they did say the Pass wouldn't be echos, so it's possible one of those could exist, if maybe after the run of the Pass? And in terms of dwindling development resources, a Pass with more echos, more existing franchise characters and less of the fancy trailers could be made as a compromise, still bringing in some beloved characters balanced with a couple straight up new ones.
 
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I have to wonder if the "hints" towards Doom Guy are legit. Smash character reveals are such a big thing, and I'm not sure Nintendo would be chill with at least some Bethesda guy saying "oh we might have a Nintendo/Dewm surprise coming up wink wink nudge nudge" (though they did let a box design accurately point towards the number of remaining newcomers for Ultimate, one of which would be placed somewhere near Ryu as an echo). Surely Nintendo would have NDAs in place to if anything, keep certain discussion of the product from happening or whatever? I mean the closest we got out of Rareware was "if that were to happen, we wouldn't be the ones to announce it", but then we'd get Kirkhope deliberately denying Banjo stuff for E3 with "don't hold your breath", right?
The fact that people keep bringing up these 'hints' is exactly why I don't believe a Bethesda rep is happening, period. Not only would Nintendo not want that to happen, they'd be furious. We've never gotten 'hints' about characters before and we're not going to get hints now.

As for Grant Kirkhope, I wouldn't consider anything he said as disconfirmation. The dude has no legal ties to Banjo. He is able to feign ignorance, which is something a Director or Producer can't do.
 
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I brought this up in another thread, but I wanted to share it again here to see what others might think. Reading through the last two Nintendo Investor Relations presentations, these were the sections devoted to Smash Ultimate.

IR Apr. 26 2019 said:
Every fighter that has previously appeared in the Super Smash Bros. series is in this title, hence the tagline of “Everyone is here!” In fact, the tagline could also apply to every consumer who enjoys playing games. For many years, Nintendo has striven to build good relationships with consumers and maintain them. This latest Super Smash Bros. title is like a giant gathering of everyone who has ever had access to Nintendo games at any stage in their lives during the 35 years that Nintendo has been continuously producing video games. As a result, we’re seeing a change in consumer demographics as people across a wide variety of age groups are all playing Super Smash Bros. There are plenty of consumers all over the world, regardless of age or gender, who have experienced Nintendo games, so we hope this will have a positive impact on the expansion of the Nintendo Switch business going forward.
IR Feb. 1 2019 said:
After the start of the calendar year, the title driving the most hardware sales is Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. This is a list of titles played by consumers on their first day after purchasing Nintendo Switch, between January and March 2019. As you can see, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate was the title most commonly played by users with new Nintendo Switch systems. When Super Smash Bros. Ultimate was first released, it was played by people within a wide age range, and particularly by men in their 20s to early 30s. As time has passed, however, the range of consumers playing this game has widened even further. Our data shows that the range of consumers showing interest in this game is also increasing, which means the title draws such a broad range of people.
There is a repeated notion of Smash bros. appealing to a wide range of consumers, particularly it mentions gender. I find this interesting for two reasons, first is the Smash Ballot. Besides voting for a character, listing what game they come from, and giving a reason why you think the character should be a fighter, the ballot also asked for your gender. Character popularity among gender seems to be an important enough point that they included it into the data collection process. Now with the widening range of consumers, which insinuates that there is a larger female market playing smash, it could make sense that at least one of the last two DLC spots might be a character targeted towards a female audience.

The second point why I find these two excerpts interesting is the timing of our 4th and 5th character. The 3DS is at the end of it's lifespan, and with the announcement of the Switch Lite in September, it's clear that Nintendo's goal with the new console is to get the 3DS crowd to "Switch' over to the Switch. In fact, most of the major planned releases this year are predominately portable titles, such as Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing. What I'm saying is that Nintendo's strategy for the holiday season of 2019 is to appeal to the DS/3DS market, which is when character 4 and 5 will be announced or released.

It could be that I am reading too far into the investor relations, but from what i've gathered it could be possible that character 4 and 5 might be used as apart of a push to attract portable gamers to the console, and reflect it by being characters that are popular with that crowd.
 
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I brought this up in another thread, but I wanted to share it again here to see what others might think. Reading through the last two Nintendo Investor Relations presentations, these were the sections devoted to Smash Ultimate.




There is a repeated notion of Smash bros. appealing to a wide range of consumers, particularly it mentions gender. I find this interesting for two reasons, first is the Smash Ballot. Besides voting for a character, listing what game they come from, and giving a reason why you think the character should be a fighter, the ballot also asked for your gender. Character popularity among gender seems to be an important enough point that they included it into the data collection process. Now with the widening range of consumers, which insinuates that there is a larger female market playing smash, it could make sense that at least one of the last two DLC spots might be a character targeted towards a female audience.

The second point why I find these two excerpts interesting is the timing of our 4th and 5th character. The 3DS is at the end of it's lifespan, and with the announcement of the Switch Lite in September, it's clear that Nintendo's goal with the new console is to get the 3DS crowd to "Switch' over to the Switch. In fact, most of the major planned releases this year are predominately portable titles, such as Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing. What I'm saying is that Nintendo's strategy for the holiday season of 2019 is to appeal to the DS/3DS market, which is when character 4 and 5 will be announced or released.

It could be that I am reading too far into the investor relations, but from what i've gathered it could be possible that character 4 and 5 might be used as apart of a push to attract portable gamers to the console, and reflect it by being characters that are popular with that crowd.
I feel like these things could be points in favor of certain characters, like Phoenix Wright and Layton. These two are kinda notorious for having a primarily female playerbase. I don't exactly remember the numbers (will try searching for them), but if memory serves, I think at least Layton has significantly more female than male players.

Otherwise, this is also a boost for games outside the RPG and platformer genres - as they, too, would attract new audiences.
 
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What do you guys think is likely: getting a second fighter pass, getting a few bonus fighters or getting nothing at all after this fighter pass?

I would say nothing, or maybe one bonus fighter. And if we get this bonus fighter, it must be Geno. To close off the Ultimate Smash Bros. cycle with one of the most frequently asked Smash characters would make Ultimate feel “Ultimate”.
If we're being honest, I ain't know, and I don't think anybody (myself included) can make a fully accurate prediction based off what we know now, but TBH, I doubt we'll go the rest of the Switch's lifespan without seeing something beyond the pass, as minor as it may be. Smash 4's DLC may not have been exceptionally large, but it was released near the end of a dying console's lifespan and while work on the next game was already underway. By comparison, the DLC here is being released in Year 3-4 of one of Nintendo's most successful consoles which is projected to have a lifespan of at least a decade, and the next Smash Game is probably not coming in 7-9 years minimum and when it comes, it likely won't look anything like the series currently does, if it comes at all. Add that with Sakurai and crew seemingly getting noticeably more money for the DLC here, and in an age when Nintendo is being more openly pro-DLC (aside from Splatoon 2, BOTW 2 acutally started production as further DLC for the original game and only became a seperate game because it was becoming too large IIRC), I don't think DLC beyond the pass is as unrealistic as some think (though I think the sales of the first Pass will be the primary factor in determining if they continue. There's also the placeholder WoL slots; while I don't see all (or even most) of them getting filled, and I don't think it's strong proof more is coming, I think it shows that the idea of continuing is at least being remotely considered.

I highly doubt we'll see another pass at all, on the other hand. And while I suppose anything could happen, 2-3 individual fighters tops seems more realistic than some of the other ideas thrown around, and they'll most likely be 1-2 echos and one full fighter (and I agree, it'd likely be Geno, I'd see Saks trying one final time to get him in the game after the Pass ends), released at the team's own pace and with no strict schedule.

in spite of that, though, I'll still operate under the mindset that nothing will happen after this Pass, just to lower the inevitable disappointment levels if that's indeed Ultimate's future. (shrug)
 
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I feel like these things could be points in favor of certain characters, like Phoenix Wright and Layton. These two are kinda notorious for having a primarily female playerbase. I don't exactly remember the numbers (will try searching for them), but if memory serves, I think at least Layton has significantly more female than male players.

Otherwise, this is also a boost for games outside the RPG and platformer genres - as they, too, would attract new audiences.
haha well I do acknowledge my biases, Layton is my most wanted with Wright as close second. appealing to this market makes sense in my mind right now, but I wanted to bring the point up here to see alternate viewpoints and see what holes my idea might have.
 

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Characters that appeal to the female audience...?

Well you have the cute ones already there (Kirby, Isabelle, some Pokémon), and handsome guys (Link, Ike, Cloud etc) soooo why not more empowering strong badass female characters?
 

N3ON

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The fact that people keep bringing up these 'hints' is exactly why I don't believe a Bethesda rep is happening, period. Not only would Nintendo not want that to happen, they'd be furious. We've never gotten 'hints' about characters before and we're not going to get hints now.
Nintendo would be furious... why? Because some people think something might happen? How is that going to negatively effect the reveal if those predicting Doom Slayer end up being right? How would that effect the virality of the trailer or the bottom dollar of the character?

There are a lot of characters large groups of people think will happen even without teases, and those reactions are not subdued for it. If anything, these "hints" have made Doom Slayer a much more popular request. In fact, it's the reveals that no one sees coming that tend to be more divisive.

Also, there have been hints in the past. Off the top of my head, Sakurai disclosed he was thinking about a Capcom inclusion prior to Mega Man's reveal, and the Palutena trailer was clearly hinting at Dark Pit. Shulk's VA also hinted at his inclusion prior to reveal.

As for Grant Kirkhope, I wouldn't consider anything he said as disconfirmation. The dude has no legal ties to Banjo. He is able to feign ignorance, which is something a Director or Producer can't do.
He wasn't feigning ignorance though, he didn't say "no idea". He was actively discouraging the outcome. Any developer can just lie.
 
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