Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Opossum

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Yeah, just as I thought, it's not realistic or violent enough. Certainly not Doom-tier. Acceptable for Smash.
.
Dude. You literally hear the skin being ripped away from Joker's face as blood spews out of it when activating Arsene for the first time.

That and I was exclusively comparing it to Halo, not Doom. Halo is nowhere near Doom tier lol.
 
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Vrbtm

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Dude. You literally hear the skin being ripped away from Joker's face as blood spews out pf it when activating Arsene for the first time.
It's still presented in a stylized and cartoony way.

For me to care, it has to be realistic. And it's not. Far from it.
 
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IsmaR

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At what point in Metroid Prime does an all-out war break out where you experience it firsthand? Never.
...The entire opening act of Metroid Prime 3 is you going around preventing people from dying while the ship you're on is under siege. You constantly can see people getting killed on screen and in cutscenes, including watching guys get sucked out into the vacuum of space, run over by aircraft/trains, or impaled by melee weapons. There's even an act later on where you fight directly alongside with some troopers, and even get a game over if enough of them don't survive.

It's not bloody/gore-y enough to get it an M rating, but it's not "stylized" enough that you can't tell brutal violence/things that would kill real people are happening.

You can choose to ignore the Ridley in Smash example all you want, you still have Snake literally snapping necks with his pummel (and that's as in line with all the "over the top" Metal Gear stuff, whether you choose to be picky about it or not). As long as things can be toned down as Sakurai/Nintendo sees fit, FPS reps are fine.
 

TheCJBrine

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Goofy and stylized cartoon violence?

Yep, have been since the '70s. Never denied that.
There’s also Ridley’s character and some other dark stuff in official manga including some Pokémon stuff (though this may just be TPC tbh). They also support Bayonetta a lot and I don’t see how there’s anything cartoony or slapstick about that.

Persona isn’t goofy either and you’d have to be pretty sadistic to consider this stuff along with Ridley and what/whoever else that’s similar on the same level as Mario or Tom and Jerry (not in an entertaining-game or cartoon sense but the stuff it involves).
 
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Vrbtm

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It's not bloody/gore-y enough to get it an M rating
There you go, then. Shot yourself in the foot by acknowledging this.
You can choose to ignore the Ridley in Smash example all you want
I haven't ignored it. Ridley's violence is EXTREMELY cartoonish. I've already stated this.
you still have Snake literally snapping necks with his pummel
Which I concede is too much for Smash, and I wish that they'd remove it. I consider it the exception that proves the rule.
 

Opossum

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It's still presented in a stylized and cartoony way.

For me to care, it has to be realistic. And it's not. Far from it.
Okay in that case I'm giving the late game spoiler without context.

You see a character get shot point blank in the face, corpse lying there with eyes wide open as it bleeds out in view of the camera. It is done completely realistically and is in no way stylized at all. It's an actual execution scene.
 

coolmancool

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To continue with bomb girl, they do try to get it out in MGSV:GZ, and you see intestine and stuff. Its pretty gory.
 

GoodGrief741

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Because whether I've played or care about something has no bearing on whether I'm able to discuss or speculate about it.
I just find it really weird that you, a non-fan, is telling actual fans what's acceptable for fans of certain characters. I mean, sounds kind of pedantic if you ask me - and honestly I wonder why you're on this thread if you feel like you're unmistakably in the right and aren't willing to accept any arguments to the contrary.
 

Idon

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At this point, I can only believe that this is some really well done bait meant to waste all of our time. Honestly I'm just waiting on the "hah, you actually all believed that?" line.
 

Will

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Then I would politely suggest that you act like it.
Oooo, little man getting feisty trying to act big and mature. :nifty: Not insulting the intelligence of others and being a big meanie at all.

I haven't ignored it. Ridley's violence is EXTREMELY cartoonish. I've already stated this.
Aw yeah dude, Ridley eating Samus' parents wasn't realistic at all.

At this point, I can only believe that this is some really well done bait meant to waste all of our time. Honestly I'm just waiting on the "hah, you actually all believed that?" line.
Mods about to demolish this man in 5 when they remember that these threads exist.
 
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Vrbtm

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Infracted for repeated trolling
...I don't think cartoony means what you think it means.
It means exactly what I think it means.

There’s also Ridley’s character and some other dark stuff in official manga including some Pokémon stuff (though this may just be TPC tbh). They also support Bayonetta a lot and I don’t see how there’s anything cartoony or slapstick about that.

Persona isn’t goofy either and you’d have to be pretty sadistic to consider this stuff along with Ridley and what/whoever else that’s similar on the same level as Mario or Tom and Jerry.
Ridley is cartoony.
What "official manga"?
If you don't see what's cartoony about Bayonetta, I don't know what to say.
Persona is goofy as ****, what are you saying?

You see a character get shot point blank in the face, corpse lying there with eyes wide open as it bleeds out in view of the camera. It is done completely realistically and is in no way stylized at all. It's an actual execution scene.
Without context, this means nothing to me.

People get killed in Metal Gear as well, but the reason I continue to give it a pass has to do with the game's atmosphere and sense of humor. I excuse Persona for similar reasons.

There's basically nothing you could say at this point if those are the best examples you have.

I wonder why you're on this thread if you feel like you're unmistakably in the right and aren't willing to accept any arguments to the contrary.
There's no fun in being right if I can't show off.

Aw yeah dude, Ridley eating Samus' parents wasn't realistic at all.
Aw yeah dude, that one scene that's never shown in any of the games at all! Epic point! You really got me on that one dude!
 

TheCJBrine

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Ridley is cartoony.
What "official manga"?
If you don't see what's cartoony about Bayonetta, I don't know what to say.
Persona is goofy as ****, what are you saying?
Ridley impales people and has an art style closer to “realistic” than “cartoony.”

The manga that Nintendo (or The Pokémon Company in their case) supports, or else it’d have been striked by them.

I wouldn’t classify torture, nudity, violent demons and such as your typical cartoony activities.

It may have some goofy events tbh but how are the bloody moments and gruesome stuff portrayed as “goofy”?

Heck a lot of parents don’t want their kids watching Family Guy or some other slapstick stuff like it, some even when they’re younger teens, and I’m pretty sure Nintendo has been attracting mature audiences as well since the NES days so I’m not sure what’s the big deal anyway.
 
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Opossum

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It means exactly what I think it means.

Ridley is cartoony.
What "official manga"?
If you don't see what's cartoony about Bayonetta, I don't know what to say.
Persona is goofy as ****, what are you saying?

Without context, this means nothing to me.

People get killed in Metal Gear as well, but the reason I continue to give it a pass has to do with the game's atmosphere and sense of humor. I excuse Persona for similar reasons.

There's basically nothing you could say at this point if those are the best examples you have.

There's no fun in being right if I can't show off.


Aw yeah dude, that one scene that's never shown in any of the games at all! Epic point! You really got me on that one dude!
Dude, I gave you an example of very realistic bloody violence in Persona 5 without context, but giving the context would get you upset about spoilers. It's ridiculous. I wouldn't even be able to post the scene I'm talking about without getting infracted.

Just because you refuse to look up things that can damage your argument, it doesn't mean those damaging points don't exist.
 

Vrbtm

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Ridley impales people and has an art style closer to “realistic” than “cartoony.”
He doesn't impale people realistically. He LOOKS realistic, but that doesn't mean he acts realistic.

The manga that Nintendo (or The Pokémon Company in their case) supports, or else it’d have been striked by them.
I don't care about the Pokémon manga at all. It's not canon and it doesn't matter. Only weebs know about it anyway.

I wouldn’t classify torture, nudity, violent demons and such as your typical cartoony activities.
I would, if it's presented in a cartoonish way. And it is.

It may have some goofy events tbh but how are the bloody moments and gruesome stuff portrayed as “goofy”?
They're stylized. They're not realistic. It's not gonna traumatize a 10 year old.

Being oblivious doesn't mean you're being right. Means you're being a **** bro. :nifty:
I only asked what "official manga" he meant, because he wasn't being clear about whether he was talking about Metroid or Pokémon.

Turns out, he was talking about Pokémon.
 
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Vrbtm

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Dude, I gave you an example of very realistic bloody violence in Persona 5 without context, but giving the context would get you upset about spoilers. It's ridiculous. I wouldn't even be able to post the scene I'm talking about without getting infracted.
I just have no reason to take your word for it, and I've already explained to you (based on your description of the event) that it's not enough for me. It doesn't tick enough boxes. Realistic violence isn't enough if the game itself isn't themed around it.

Show me how to impale people realistically with a sharp object.
For starters, it involves a lot of blood and a lot of screaming. Neither of which Ridley's impalings exhibit.

The same thing could be said about Doomguy
Nope. Not even close.
 

TheCJBrine

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He doesn't impale people realistically. He LOOKS realistic, but that doesn't mean he acts realistic.

I don't care about the Pokémon manga at all. It's not canon and it doesn't matter. Only weebs know about it anyway.

I would, if it's presented in a cartoonish way. And it is.

They're stylized. They're not realistic. It's not gonna traumatize a 10 year old.

I only asked what "official manga" he meant, because he wasn't being clear about whether he was talking about Metroid or Pokémon.

Turns out, he was talking about Pokémon.
He stabs his tail straight through them.

I actually haven’t read the Pokémon manga but I guess I’m some “weeb” if I ever do or for being a big fan of certain franchises now.

It didn’t seem all that cartoonish from what I’ve seen.

I think people take stylized gore more seriously than you think they do, especially younger minds. I guess parents should just let their 7 year old children play Persona, Doom, Bayonetta, and GTA without even the least bit of concern.

Heck, if it’s no big deal for kids to see gore, then I guess Halo and Doom are fine, especially since it’s obvious they aren’t real to the target audiences as well as teens, and they’re gonna be “stylized” in Smash.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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I’ve definitely come around to the idea of Doom Slayer in Smash, especially with the comments made by Bethesda representatives on their relationship with the Switch as a console and obviously Nintendo. I don’t know exactly how they would set up a move set for Doom Slayer, but it’d probably be extremely fun.

I’m still pretty confident that either Leon, Jill, or Chris from Resident Evil has an excellent chance at this point, Mii Costume theory be damned. I’m curious to see if the Theory survives the Hero “mini-Direct”, but I won’t be upset if the theory doesn’t survive it.

Also, as some folks know that I’ve been playing through Chrono Trigger, I’d be very happy to see a Crono Mii Swordfighter Costume in the Direct. It really is such a great game.

Overall, I’m thinking the picks will be among the following:

Leon/Chris/Jill
Dante
Monster Hunter
Phoenix Wright
Heihachi
Lloyd Irving
Crash Bandicoot
Doom Slayer
A Dark Souls character

I’m not sold on SNK getting a pick just yet, and from what I recall Koei Tecmo said they weren’t contacted for Smash.

Frankly if I get Resident Evil content, I don’t really mind anyone as a final pick.
 
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Will

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I think people take stylized gore more seriously than you think they do, especially younger minds. I guess parents should just let their 7 year old children play Persona, Doom, Bayonetta, and GTA without even the least bit of concern.
Man, Call of Duty fell off the map to be forgotten like this.
 

TheCJBrine

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Man, Call of Duty fell off the map to be forgotten like this.
I don’t know if it’s to the point of other games, but yeah you have a point. I played it with my younger bro and it seemed fine, though that was just the first few Black Ops games. My younger bro was the one that actually wanted to play, it doesn’t really interest me much but multiplayer is fun.
 
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Nquoid

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I’m not sold on SNK getting a pick just yet, and from what I recall Koei Tecmo said they weren’t contacted for Smash..
Fatal Frame is in the game as an assist trophy. Obviously Nintendo published that title on the Wii U, but Koei Tecmo still got the credit in Smash Ultimate, so there has been some back and forth.

And whilst Team Ninja didn't have anything to do with Smash, they were very much involved with Nintendo now based on the last decade of what they've developed.
 

Vrbtm

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Will

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yo look at this master chief mod


Thanks for proving me right.
Nothing has proven you right whatsoever. Smash is E10+, that's common knowledge. There are 3 M-Rated characters so far that have been toned down, and you're arguing Doomguy cannot be done the same.

That's not Doomguy.
It's a monster from Doomguy of which he kills. Look at all that realism.
 

Vrbtm

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yo look at this master chief mod
Disgusting.

It's a monster from Doomguy of which he kills. Look at all that realism.
We're not talking about it. The monsters can be as unrealistic as they want, because they're not what I'm talking about.

Nothing has proven you right whatsoever. Smash is E10+, that's common knowledge. There are 3 M-Rated characters so far that have been toned down, and you're arguing Doomguy cannot be done the same.
That is correct. And he can't.
 
D

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Im surprised the discussion with that mate lasted this long. Its the second time he made the same arguments without any change whatsoever.

Bayonetta, MGS and Persona are some of the few series I see that earn their ratings. Seriously, Bayonetta's climax finishers make Doomguy look tame most of the time.
 

Opossum

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Looks like he's been banned anyways.

What new topic should we discuss?
I'm in the middle of putting together a preliminary Edelgard moveset. Once Three Houses comes out and I can flesh it out more, I'll share it here. :p
 
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