Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Speed Weed]

Bomberman being an AT

why must you remind me

 

[Will]

The thing i quoted earlier, that had a now deleted resetera post, said nintendo doesnt allow waluigi outside of sport games

Smash Bros. is not a fighting game, it is a party sports game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

https://www.nintendo.com/consumer/network/en_na/network_status.jsp
upcoming maintenance on Jul 27 and Aug 3...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Always had a hunch from the start that the Paper Mario **** not being like the older games wasn't IS' fault.

The characterisation and story stake for sure isn't IS's fault but I seriously doubt Nintendo is forcing them to not make them RPGs and instead being adventure games with awkward combat mechanics.

 

[SharkLord]

The characterisation and story stake for sure isn't IS's fault but I seriously doubt Nintendo is forcing them to not make them RPGs and instead being adventure games with awkward combat mechanics.

Apparently the TOK director also directed Federation Force and Ziplash, but he also directed stuff like Luigi's Mansion 3. Generally, I think he's the kind of guy who just does whatever, not caring about what others think.

 

[MooMew64]

That Resetera post explains a lot about post-Wii era Mario. Seems to me (if it's true at all, anyways) like marketing people are worried adding depth to Mario would eliminate casual appeal and risk potential sales if people didn't recognize the cast immediately. If this is true, it would certainly explain exactly why Mario games outside of the 3D games veered so sharply into the realm of homogenization: It's marketing perception.

...I really, really hope that if this information is accurate, that this supposed Mario IP team loosens up a bit.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Apparently the TOK director also directed Federation Force and Ziplash, but he also directed stuff like Luigi's Mansion 3. Generally, I think he's the kind of guy who just does whatever, not caring about what others think.

He's done every Metroid Prime game, Fed Force was just in development hell as it was planned for the regular DS, he's also responsible for Punch Out Wii and modern DKC, he very much cares, Chibi Robo was lucky to get as many revitalization attempts as it did and LM3 did indeed take criticisms from Dark Moon to heart last I checked

 

[Shroob]

So, if it really just comes down to business decisions.... am I allowed to unironically post this?

Spoiler

 

[3BitSaurus]

Trust me, I've been dreading the possible "LoL Guessing game" because it's 145 theoretically possible characters.

And that's a game I like.

Tired of having someone spam their Mastery at you in League? Have no fear!

Now they'll spam their Mastery at you in Smash!

Real talk, tho, Mastery needs to be a taunt.

 

[SKX31]

I have to ask people who played LOL, is there one character who heads up the marketing like Heavy for Team Fortress 2 or Tracer for Overwatch?

Only ones I remember if this purple new 52 Harley Quinn looking character (jinx I think?) and a woman in a red kimono with fox ears or devil horns.

There are about 10-15 viable candidates (that is, get pushed the most / are most notable) but I'll list five of them:

Yes, Jinx is not just LoL' Pre New 52 Harley in looks and moveset, but also since she's played kinda like her. In as, shoot everything in sight, slow them down and blow everything up. If you get a kill, you go faster temporarily thanks to her passive!

Ahri's popular not just because she's LoL's Morrigan Aensland essentially, but also since her playstyle is appealing to the combo centric mage players. The typical combo is to ensnare people via Charm, and blow the victim up with her projectiles and other spells. Described her in the past as a possible mix of Ult Palu and Rosalina in concept (due to her orb acting as her Luma).

Ezreal's not just one of LoL's primary Bishonens, but also a light magic user who specializes in damage. Imagine if Isaac got tired of everything and just decided to shoot his problems with his magic. Ezreal lacks any slows or stuns natively IIRC, but his passive encourages him to spam spells on enemies because that grants him attack speed.

Draven's a memetic pick - Imagine Heihachi's looks, but dialling his egocentrism up to 11 and carrying huge throwing axes with him. The axes and egocentrism are core to his playstyle: his passive is literally around gaining "Adoration" (by using his axes as much as possible and killing things with them without dying himself) and then going for the most overkill / stylish axe throw possible.

And there's Teemo. The troll pick and the SmashBoards emote. Built around traps and slowing people to a crawl while he hunts them down with an intentionally annoying laugh. Infamous for a good reason.

(I didn't go over characters like Lux, Yasuo etc. because again, there are 10-15 possible viable choices.)

Smash Bros. is not a fighting game, it is a party sports game.

So that's how Waluigi finally gets in? By bending the rules?

Perfectly in character for WAAAAAAAAAH!

 

[SpectreJordan]

The main reason I don’t think Atelier would happen isn’t because it’s obscure, but because it doesn’t seem to have left much of an impact on gaming. I looked it up & the series seems pretty unremarkable, the reviews/reception don’t seem to go above “solid game” tier.

That’s the one common theme amongst the third party characters. They all have atleast one game that’s either been highly influential, seen as one of the best games ever or at the very least one of the best games in their genre.

Yes even the Smash community’s Boogeyman, Bayonetta, is rocking two games with a 90 & 92 on Metacritic; Bayonetta 2 being nominated for several GOTY awards including at the VGAs, which usually lean towards American AAA games. While Terry “Literally Who” Bogard has games like King of Fighters ‘98 & Garou: Mark of the Wolves under his belt.

From what I’ve seen, Atelier doesn’t have that. Not crapping on the series, I’m sure some of them are fun. But this choice would stick out like a sore thumb amongst all the other third party characters. Ryza would definitely seem like a shill pick. Especially if she were to get in over Ryu Hayabusa who has some platforming & Action/Hack-&-slash classics in his resume.

 

[Souless_shadow]

Last I checked, I think it was 148, plus upcoming characters.
Imagine if the LoL rep was someone not even released yet. Everyone would be so mad it would end the internet itself.

Yeah they have two new champs coming in a couple weeks and they'll finally hit 150. A guessing game of that size would probably be the death of me

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

The main reason I don’t think Atelier would happen isn’t because it’s obscure, but because it doesn’t seem to have left much of an impact on gaming. I looked it up & the series seems pretty unremarkable, the reviews/reception don’t seem to go above “solid game” tier.

That’s the one common theme amongst the third party characters. They all have atleast one game that’s either been highly influential, seen as one of the best games ever or at the very least one of the best games in their genre.

Yes even the Smash community’s Boogeyman, Bayonetta, is rocking two games with a 90 & 92 on Metacritic; Bayonetta 2 being nominated for several GOTY awards including at the VGAs, which usually lean towards American AAA games. While Terry “Literally Who” Bogard has games like King of Fighters ‘98 & Garou: Mark of the Wolves under his belt.

From what I’ve seen, Atelier doesn’t have that. Not crapping on the series, I’m sure some of them are fun. But this choice would stick out like a sore thumb amongst all the other third party characters. Ryza would definitely seem like a shill pick. Especially if she were to get in over Ryu Hayabusa who has some platforming & Action/Hack-&-slash classics in his resume.

You're really telling me Bayonetta had significant impact on gaming at the time of her addition? Other than her series being a cult classic (like Atelier) and her series having been saved by Nintendo, she had very little going for her. I remember people were very keen to point this out when she was revealed as the Ballot winner over a bunch of other seemingly more popular characters.

Miss me with this revisionist history BS.

 

[Teeb147]

The main reason I don’t think Atelier would happen isn’t because it’s obscure, but because it doesn’t seem to have left much of an impact on gaming. I looked it up & the series seems pretty unremarkable, the reviews/reception don’t seem to go above “solid game” tier.

That’s the one common theme amongst the third party characters. They all have atleast one game that’s either been highly influential, seen as one of the best games ever or at the very least one of the best games in their genre.

Yes even the Smash community’s Boogeyman, Bayonetta, is rocking two games with a 90 & 92 on Metacritic; Bayonetta 2 being nominated for several GOTY awards including at the VGAs, which usually lean towards American AAA games. While Terry “Literally Who” Bogard has games like King of Fighters ‘98 & Garou: Mark of the Wolves under his belt.

From what I’ve seen, Atelier doesn’t have that. Not crapping on the series, I’m sure some of them are fun. But this choice would stick out like a sore thumb amongst all the other third party characters. Ryza would definitely seem like a shill pick. Especially if she were to get in over Ryu Hayabusa who has some platforming & Action/Hack-&-slash classics in his resume.

Persona was kind of the same. It had some cool stuff, but nothing critical to gaming.
The atelier series does have alchemy, item creation, but it's something you can find in other games.

 

[RileyXY1]

I do think that Ryza would be a blatant shill pick, especially considering that Koei Tecmo also has Ryu Hayabusa.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Persona was kind of the same. It had some cool stuff, but nothing critical to gaming.
The atelier series does have alchemy, item creation, but it's something you can find in other games.

Ehhhh, Persona 5 outright broke into the mainstream when it came out

 

[I.D.]

Imagine still arguing this crap when we've had 2 DLC cycles ending on a FE advertisement. "NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T ADD RYZA SHE'S A SHILLPICK" nobody cares.

 

[AinsOoalGown]

Metacritic.

Even if I think that leak is fake and am big into Ninja Gaiden, anyone that takes a heavily manipulated and raided site like that (the "lets review bomb Breath of The Wild and every single switch and 3ds games we hear about because its not on ps4" - the site) seriously to any sort of argument, even if in a tangential way is not worth the time of the day, its as bad as like using ninsoup or one of these clickbait sites that google loves to promote as a news source.

 

[RileyXY1]

Imagine still arguing this crap when we've had 2 DLC cycles ending on a FE advertisement. "NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T ADD RYZA SHE'S A SHILLPICK" nobody cares.

Atelier is less known and notable than Fire Emblem is and Koei Tecmo is also the creator of Ninja Gaiden.

 

[Cosmic77]

Min Min would soften the blow of Ryza, but I have to say, if that was our big Smash reveal for E3, that's actually a little concerning.

E3 is usually the perfect time for highly marketable characters or extremely popular characters. Ryza isn't really either of those things, so that would make me worry that an Atelier rep was, in Nintendo's opinion, one of the best characters in the pass. Luckily we'd still have E3 2021 for possible big reveals, but it's still worrying when they tend to frontload DLC with big characters first followed by the less big characters last.

 

[Teeb147]

Ehhhh, Persona 5 outright broke into the mainstream when it came out

It didn't really have that many sales, compared to many many other franchises. It maybe made itself known more. Atelier Ryza made a bit impact in some places apparently. I havent kept up too much, but the atelier series is much more well known now. (tho sure, not as much as persona)

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Imagine still arguing this crap when we've had 2 DLC cycles ending on a FE advertisement. "NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T ADD RYZA SHE'S A SHILLPICK" nobody cares.

But I.D. this time will be different! It has to be!

Nintendo chooses the characters I want and anything outside of that is wrong and shouldn't even be mentioned!

 

[SharkLord]

Imagine still arguing this crap when we've had 2 DLC cycles ending on a FE advertisement. "NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T ADD RYZA SHE'S A SHILLPICK" nobody cares.

And Hero too, even moreso than Byleth. At every turn, they were mentioning how Eleven was from Dragon Quest XI S: Tales from an Elusive Age: Definitive Edition, now for Nintendo Switch™. Sure, some characters may be "shills," but that won't stop them from being added, and t wouldn't stop them from being fun, either.

Min Min would soften the blow of Ryza, but I have to say, if that was our big Smash reveal for E3, that's actually a little concerning.

E3 is usually the perfect time for highly marketable characters or extremely popular characters. Ryza isn't really either of those things, so that would make me worry that an Atelier rep was, in Nintendo's opinion, one of the best characters in the pass. Luckily we'd still have E3 2021 for possible big reveals, but it's still worrying when they tend to frontload DLC with big characters first followed by the less big characters last.

You've got a good point there. Atelier's possible, if not unlikely, but it's not something you'd show at a major gaming convention. Ryza or whoever else we'd be getting would be dropped in a regular Direct like Terry, unless Nintendo took the opportunity to shunt their big E3 pick back even further to work on them even more.

 

[MooMew64]

Haven't even played Atelier, but I'd like to. Series looks cute as heck, I wouldn't mind it bein' in Smash one bit.

 

[I.D.]

The Geno thread is having a bit of a meltdown right now. Seems that they also think that interview is concerning.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It didn't really have that many sales, compared to many many other franchises. It maybe made itself known more. Atelier Ryza made a bit impact in some places apparently. I havent kept up too much, but the atelier series is much more well known now.

Idk man Persona 5 selling over 3 million copies isn't anything to sneeze at, that's more than say, the average amount of sales from Kirby games. Nobody's denying Atelier's niche, my argument is that P5 isn't exactly as niche as what it's being compared to

 

[CannonStreak]

The Geno thread is having a bit of a meltdown right now. Seems that they also think that interview is concerning.

Yeah, I have seen. Probably just overreacting. To make sure, you think this interview is concerning, in any way? Not just about Geno, though, but maybe other things.

 

[Teeb147]

Idk man Persona 5 selling over 3 million copies isn't anything to sneeze at, that's more than say, the average amount of sales from Kirby games. Nobody's denying Atelier's niche, my argument is that P5 isn't exactly as niche as what it's being compared to

It sold that well cuz of smash lol. Well, it was still doing well, dont mean to pin it all on that

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Atelier is less known and notable than Fire Emblem is and Koei Tecmo is also the creator of Ninja Gaiden.

And Ninja Gaiden is more known than Atelier?



I don't know if you know this, but Ninja Gaiden is kinda a dead series. Comparatively, Atelier is still chugging along and seeing more success now more than ever, especially on the Switch.

Ryu certainly has points in his favor, but Atelier is also an incredibly viable pick. While I kind of resent the fact it took a dubious 4chan "leak" to make us think of it, I think now that it's been mentioned, Atelier is worth seriously considering.

Haven't even played Atelier, but I'd like to. Series looks cute as heck, I wouldn't mind it bein' in Smash one bit.

If only more people were like you.

 

[Shroob]

Atelier is less known and notable than Fire Emblem is and Koei Tecmo is also the creator of Ninja Gaiden.

I mean, I think the leak is bunk but

Microsoft put in Banjo over Master Chief.



Yeah, Banjo's made by RARE, but...

You see RARE credited here? No, it's Microsoft.

 

[SKX31]

It sold that well cuz of smash lol.

Nooope. It had reached 2 million worldwide by December 2017 - a year before Joker even got announced.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It sold that well cuz of smash lol.

I'm pretty sure it's unheard of for a game to suddenly jump to 3 million sales because a game on a completely seperate console got the protag as DLC 2 years after the game's original release

The Geno thread is having a bit of a meltdown right now. Seems that they also think that interview is concerning.

So basically they're finally realizing Nintendo's the one stopping Geno, not Square. Had to happen at some point

 

[Teeb147]

I don't ever give much credit to random leaks. So it's still all just speculation.
I do think it's interesting to talk about a random character like Ryza tho. It doesnt really give the leak more weight anyway.

 

[RileyXY1]

I mean, I think the leak is bunk but

Microsoft put in Banjo over Master Chief.



Yeah, Banjo's made by RARE, but...

View attachment 278730


You see RARE credited here? No, it's Microsoft.

BK is nothing like Aletier. BK is a cult series with hundreds, if not thousands, of nineties kids having nostalgia for it.

 

[CannonStreak]

I don't ever give much credit to random leaks. So it's still all just speculation.
I do think it's interesting to talk about a random character like Ryza tho. It doesnt really give the leak more weight anyway.

So, where is this random leak coming from, anyway?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And Ninja Gaiden is more known than Atelier?

View attachment 278728

I don't know if you know this, but Ninja Gaiden is kinda a dead series. Comparatively, Atelier is still chugging along and seeing more success now more than ever, especially on the Switch.

Ryu certainly has points in his favor, but Atelier is also an incredibly viable pick. While I kind of resent the fact it took a dubious 4chan "leak" to make us think of it, I think now that it's been mentioned, Atelier is worth seriously considering.

If only more people were like you.

Bruh come on now Ninja Gaiden is absolutely more famous than a series where the highest selling installment is like half a million

 

[Shroob]

BK is nothing like Aletier. BK is a cult series with hundreds, if not thousands, of nineties kids having nostalgia for it.

That doesn't matter

At all.


A small online fanbase focused around a game with no future means nothing in regards to a series that's constantly pumping out new titles regurally.

 

[RileyXY1]

And Ninja Gaiden is more known than Atelier?

View attachment 278728

I don't know if you know this, but Ninja Gaiden is kinda a dead series. Comparatively, Atelier is still chugging along and seeing more success now more than ever, especially on the Switch.

Ryu certainly has points in his favor, but Atelier is also an incredibly viable pick. While I kind of resent the fact it took a dubious 4chan "leak" to make us think of it, I think now that it's been mentioned, Atelier is worth seriously considering.

If only more people were like you.

You could say the same about Mega Man at the time he got into Smash.

 

[SharkLord]

I mean, I think the leak is bunk but

Microsoft put in Banjo over Master Chief.



Yeah, Banjo's made by RARE, but...

View attachment 278730


You see RARE credited here? No, it's Microsoft.

To be fair, Banjo and Kazooie actually were partially owned by Nintendo and had a lot of vocal support under their belts. Then again, Hayabusa doesn't have that either, and neither does Lu Bu or whoever the Musuo rep is, so it could go either way.

So, where is this random leak coming from, anyway?

4chan.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

While I think I'd still prefer Hayabusa over Ryza from a pure legacy standpoint, I think Ryza would still be incredibly cool, and I would be totally happy to get her. She would be very unique, has a nice, bright design, would have amazing music, and possibly my favorite part - she's a character that hasn't been speculated to death. I don't know - something about that specifically excites me a lot. I think it would also put an end to the idea that you HAVE to be an influential game to get "true" representation.

Hayabusa would presumably be a Mii costume, and maybe we could get a DoA or DW costume, too.