Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[zferolie]

Pokemon and Sonic.

Edit: Not a video game fandom but Star Wars as well.

Ok star wars i can see yeah. Pokemon is filled with very entitled babies, but you also can see why the complain given what gamefreak does, the baffling stuff.

Sonic though i think most of the son8c fandom is filled with super nice very creative people. Yes they are furries but i see nothing wrong with furries for the most part. But there are a few notable bad sonic fans... sonichu guy for example.

Lol, Dota, Call of Duty to name a few big ones...

I could even say the Pokemon fandom is worse. Some say Fire Emblem is THE worst Nintendo fandom, though that's only based off of what I've heard but I don't doubt it tbh.

The only moba i play is Smite but i know in general the moba fandom is toxic.. i never followed cod stiff but i can see it.

Pokemon yeah is bad but some of their complaints are legit, i am surprised fE was considered bad

 

[Schnee117]

fire emblem could be bad in the past but with 3h it's kinda mellowed out a bit

Nah it just largely traded Elitism out for House Wars Tribalism

 

[BlueMonk]

Nah it just largely traded Elitism out for House Wars Tribalism

this is true but at the very least the fanbase isn't entirely focused on hating one game anymore lol

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Nah it just largely traded Elitism out for House Wars Tribalism

Edelgard did nothing wrong.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I wouldn't say Smash fandom is one of the worst fanbases there is. The issue with it is that Smash appeals to so many people that everyone and everything is going to have vocal haters. There's also a small case of Tunnel vision within the Smash fandom, basically focusing on five-six characters and thinking no one else has a chance beyond those amount. That can basically amount to the kind of gamer those people are, as much as I hate to bring that up. People with more casual knowledge will lean towards characters that are household names or ones the fandom brings up a lot while others will, for an example since it was relevant yesterday.... Be open to the idea of someone like Ryza getting into the game if you want me to use a more niche example here.

I guess ignorance can also be a factor but that may apply to the second one. And this is just regarding character inclusion possibilities which IMO usually bring out the more toxic side.

But it's far from the worst. There's some video game fanbases that are so dreadful that you'd be shamed for even liking it just by association. But those are a story for another time.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I wouldn't say Smash is really any more toxic than other fanbase, just a more visible one, which is to be expected from a series whose latest installment sold close to 14 million copies. Trust me, if you look at the past few decades of internet discussion dating back to the early 90s you can find fan groups of much more niche media with much more intense in fighting and toxicity.

If you want a modern example, just look at the overzealous nature of certain Kpop fans, which make even the most angry online Smash stans look like milquetoast hobbyists by comparison.

 

[SNEKeater]

About Geno, I don't have any attachment to the character but I don't have anything against him, in fact I think he could be pretty cool to play with. With that said, the Gamestop thing is obviously not talking about Geno being FP7. I mean, Geno could be the next character, yeah, but this video isn't a leak or anything for multiple reasons that people have already stated.

Also, the video has been uploaded for 2 days, if the video was really talking about Geno as playable in Smash, I'd guess they would have edited Geno's part for obvious reasons.

 

[zferolie]

About Geno, I don't have any attachment to the character but I don't have anything against him, in fact I think he could be pretty cool to play with. With that said, the Gamestop thing is obviously not talking about Geno being FP7. I mean, Geno could be the next character, yeah, but this video isn't a leak or anything for multiple reasons that people have already stated.

Also, the video has been uploaded for 2 days, if the video was really talking about Geno as playable in Smash, I'd guess they would have edited Geno's part for obvious reasons.

Yeah if this was a actual accidental leak it would have been removed by now. Sure some leaksndont get removed mike the ken leak, but that was just a screenshot on a forum, this is an offical sponsored video

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

About Geno, I don't have any attachment to the character but I don't have anything against him, in fact I think he could be pretty cool to play with. With that said, the Gamestop thing is obviously not talking about Geno being FP7. I mean, Geno could be the next character, yeah, but this video isn't a leak or anything for multiple reasons that people have already stated.

Also, the video has been uploaded for 2 days, if the video was really talking about Geno as playable in Smash, I'd guess they would have edited Geno's part for obvious reasons.

If it was somehow a leak, it'd be taken down very very fast. If it isn't taken down literally within a week? It's an obvious fake/not a leak. Honestly, with the wording, it at least is saying "Geno was announced", so it cannot refer to the Spirit Battle anyway. On the other hand, it could refer to Smash 4's Mii costume. I doubt it's some odd video that was meant for last year, as Geno was possibly a Mii costume with Hero again(but things changed, of course. Whether he was going to become playable or not), but we don't know when it was recorded, just when it was uploaded. Makes me wonder if we're getting a costume soon? Though if that's the case, the video would be taken down as well.

 

[Aetheri]

The two biggest issues with Smash's fanbase is due to being heavily spoiled by the character's being added. Its the whole 'Give a mouse a cookie' premise.

Give us Sonic, we'll ask for Megaman, give us Megaman, we'll ask for Pacman, give us Pacman, we'll ask for Ridley, give us Ridley we'll ask for King K Rool, give us King K Rool, we'll ask for Banjo, give us Banjo, we'll ask for Geno, etc...

Second is the ideolgy behind Smash being some sort of honourable achievement for these characters. Setting a playable position up on a pedastal that leaves people feeling accomplished for having their favourite characters featured in this grand hall of fame of video games! With that in mind people become upset or agitated when characters they feel made it into the game when they feel like they didn't deserve it or felt they 'stole a character slot'

Give us Byleth and we'll lose our **** because its not Crash!

You get the picture.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The two biggest issues with Smash's fanbase is due to being heavily spoiled by the character's being added. Its the whole 'Give a mouse a cookie' premise.

Give us Sonic, we'll ask for Megaman, give us Megaman, we'll ask for Pacman, give us Pacman, we'll ask for Ridley, give us Ridley we'll ask for King K Rool, give us King K Rool, we'll ask for Banjo, give us Banjo, we'll ask for Geno, etc...

Second is the ideolgy behind Smash being some sort of honourable achievement for these characters. Setting a playable position up on a pedastal that leaves people feeling accomplished for having their favourite characters featured in this grand hall of fame of video games! With that in mind people become upset or agitated when characters they feel made it into the game when they feel like they didn't deserve it or felt they 'stole a character slot'

Give us Byleth and we'll lose our **** because its not Crash!

You get the picture.

Different mice have been given different kinds of cookies as well. If you weren't given K. Rool Kookies, you were given cookies based on the relevancy of Smash 4's first party newcomers, the huge icon status of its third party newcomers, the less iconic amd less demanded status of Joker and Terry, Sakurai believing there are too many FE reps not stopping him from adding more...

 

[Nemuresu]

Smash's fandoms has, quite the issues. Main one I say is the constant need of different sides to try to look superior through toxicity, and it shows:
"You want this character? Well you're very wrong for doing so because you don't fit our tastes"
"You didn't like this character? Well, you're ungrateful because you don't put the same emotional investment into the director as we do"
It's as if people didn't understand that there's different points of view towards a commercial product.

 

[DarthEnderX]

They still got dates right. All three of those dates had some sort of video game announcment. The last one was for microsoft not nintendo but that is still a correct date.

Just relax guys, whats the harm of them saying stuff?

"Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Sabi?"

Everyone who gets something right is a notable leaker until they get something wrong at which point they’re ****ing useless according in rules to the Smash Bros. Fandom. There is no gray area. You’re either a leaker or a lucky guesser.

I mean, that's the rules of reality, not just Smash fandom. If you actually have sources, you'll get things right. If you get some things right and some things wrong, then you don't have a source, you're just guessing.

 

[SKX31]

The two biggest issues with Smash's fanbase is due to being heavily spoiled by the character's being added. Its the whole 'Give a mouse a cookie' premise.

Give us Sonic, we'll ask for Megaman, give us Megaman, we'll ask for Pacman, give us Pacman, we'll ask for Ridley, give us Ridley we'll ask for King K Rool, give us King K Rool, we'll ask for Banjo, give us Banjo, we'll ask for Geno, etc...

Second is the ideolgy behind Smash being some sort of honourable achievement for these characters. Setting a playable position up on a pedastal that leaves people feeling accomplished for having their favourite characters featured in this grand hall of fame of video games! With that in mind people become upset or agitated when characters they feel made it into the game when they feel like they didn't deserve it or felt they 'stole a character slot'

Give us Byleth and we'll lose our **** because its not Crash!

You get the picture.

Wouldn't be surprised if the initial marketing for Smash is a major reason why the Smash fandom turned out like this.

Consider both intros to 64 and Melee - who explicitedly push for the "All-Star" angle (with Melee's outright calling it "Nintendo's All-Stars in-"). As well as 64's NA commercial and Melee's E3 2001 presentation. Phrases like"Star-Studded Slamfest" were frequently used to create and maintain the "Dream Match" prospect. The roster for both games too, which include Nintendo mainstays as well as more niche characters to carter to as many as possible in this "Dream Match". The audience reaction to the E3 2001 presentation is telling. Also, not only did 64's intro hint at the unlockable characters - Melee's hinted at Jigglypuff, Mewtwo and Ganondorf (not that Melee's intro was consistent, but point still stands).

No wonder this turned out like this - when Smash is positioned like this, anything seems possible. Especially after Brawl's E3 2006 trailer. And of course a lot of people take it to the logical conclusions. Anything to keep the dream match alive.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I want to say the fandom is usually a casual vs Hardcore kind of deal. I don't like bringing it up since it's generalizing and may make heated discussions but you can tell how some people are when they bring up the most mainstream and commonly requested characters and don't look beyond their tunnel to see different choices, hence why some people got upset over Hero and Terry's inclusion.

Honestly this isn't a bad thing entirely since it shows how widespread Smash is as a game. It's just an issue when you got people harassing people who are a bit more hardcore/knowledgeable over games because their "Most wanted" is not a mainstream want by the fandoms standards.

Yet at the same time both help: Solidify a known characters status to a fandom while for the smaller franchises, get them the recognition they deserve by bringing them up. At least that is how I see it.

 

[MooMew64]

I think a big problem the Smash community has in general is just taking things like character inclusions too seriously and treating everything that doesn't go their way as a slight. The community is huge, and has many, many people, all with different tastes than one another, and it's impossible to please everyone. However...Everyone expects Sakurai and Nintendo to cater to exclusively them: An "Absolutely everything has to appeal to me" kind of attitude is very prevalent in this community, and because of the fierce loyalties people form to their character of choice, it creates this toxic sense of tribalism and "us VS. them" mentality. It leads to a lot of overall immaturity and bickering over what is, at the end of the day, just a video game.

Basically, some Smash fans gotta learn how to chill. Learn to channel disappointment in healthier ways: Ya didn't get a character you liked? That's too bad, but at least you can try to happy for others, yeah? This also goes to those who get thier favorites in: Don't be a sore winner about it and try to rub it in someone's face or try to claim some kind of superiority. Respect people's tastes and opinions and just be kind, ya know? We all like Smash Bros. at the end of the day.

 

[DanganZilla5]

To add my two cents into the conversation, I don't think the Smash fandom is more toxic than other fandoms, it's just a loud one. The thing with Smash is that you have so many communities from all the different franchises represented now connected and interacting. There is bound to be conflict because there will be some people who really want a certain character for really good reasons but the other people who haven't played the game won't see what the fuss is about and reject the character because it's not the one they want and they don't see why that character is so special. This is basic human psychology: Ignorance = Fear.

 

[FJA147]

I think a big problem the Smash community has in general is just taking things like character inclusions too seriously and treating everything that doesn't go their way as a slight. The community is huge, and has many, many people, all with different tastes than one another, and it's impossible to please everyone. However...Everyone expects Sakurai and Nintendo to cater to exclusively them: An "Absolutely everything has to appeal to me" kind of attitude is very prevalent in this community, and because of the fierce loyalties people form to their character of choice, it creates this toxic sense of tribalism and "us VS. them" mentality. It leads to a lot of overall immaturity and bickering over what is, at the end of the day, just a video game.

Basically, some Smash fans gotta learn how to chill. Learn to channel disappointment in healthier ways: Ya didn't get a character you liked? That's too bad, but at least you can try to happy for others, yeah? This also goes to those who get thier favorites in: Don't be a sore winner about it and try to rub it in someone's face or try to claim some kind of superiority. Respect people's tastes and opinions and just be kind, ya know? We all like Smash Bros. at the end of the day.

In general when you have a lot of people from different groups everyone is going to think differently and have experienced different things. Any character that gets into smash will be disliked by someone but someone else will probably like it because they enjoyed their game. It is ok to be disappointed if your character doesn’t get in because you will not get everything you want. Why people think the community is toxic is because whenever a group who wants a certain character and that character doesn’t get in they see it as a negative rather than being positive and happy for the people who wanted that character who got in. This is why I think that CP11 could be the most controversial pack because this might be the last dlc character added to smash. People are going to be disappointed that their character didn’t get in and this might be when they are going to be the most negative because they won’t get it. It is just that they will need to see the positive of what you got in Smash Ultimate because the positives should outweigh you not getting that one character who you wanted to get really badly.

 

[Deleted member]

I thought this was the newcomer & DLC speculation thread? Why are we on toxic fandoms now? Things only get 'toxic' when you're provoked by the trolls. If you ignore it and move on, there's nothing to worry about. Just skip this conversation entirely and eventually, when people learn that you don't respond to the provocations, the community will appear more mellow. Someone vehemently disagrees? Good for them; if you're already said your piece, just change the topic and move on. It's the constant back-and-forth, and eventual escalation, that causes toxicity to begin with. Learn to let it go and let people have their thoughts.

So...about this rumored Direct for the 20th. How much faith do we have that its occurring? Should we be expecting an announcement tomorrow for a Direct on Monday? If we don't get one, then anything that happens on the 20th is likely to just be a mini direct since that's pretty much the only kind of directs that are stealth dropped.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I thought this was the newcomer & DLC speculation thread? Why are we on toxic fandoms now? Things only get 'toxic' when you're provoked by the trolls. If you ignore it and move on, there's nothing to worry about. Just skip this conversation entirely and eventually, when people learn that you don't respond to the provocations, the community will appear more mellow. Someone vehemently disagrees? Good for them; if you're already said your piece, just change the topic and move on. It's the constant back-and-forth, and eventual escalation, that causes toxicity to begin with. Learn to let it go and let people have their thoughts.

So...about this rumored Direct for the 20th. How much faith do we have that its occurring? Should we be expecting an announcement tomorrow for a Direct on Monday? If we don't get one, then anything that happens on the 20th is likely to just be a mini direct since that's pretty much the only kind of directs that are stealth dropped.

I don't have any faith in leaked transcripts and games lists but the removal of the new icon on SmashBros.com and the addition of SKUs to gamestop makes me thing we're getting something soon.

As for who character 7 could be, the rumors have it as Geno, Riza or a League of Legends character. Of all them, I think an LOL character is most likely purely on the basis that I have no interest in that series and think that all MOBA are toxic holes where anything less than unthinking perfection is cause for rage and banning.

TF2 added a MOBA-esque Co-op mode and I got a lotta crap for saying that double Mini-Sentry Engie is a viable strategy.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I thought this was the newcomer & DLC speculation thread? Why are we on toxic fandoms now? Things only get 'toxic' when you're provoked by the trolls. If you ignore it and move on, there's nothing to worry about. Just skip this conversation entirely and eventually, when people learn that you don't respond to the provocations, the community will appear more mellow. Someone vehemently disagrees? Good for them; if you're already said your piece, just change the topic and move on. It's the constant back-and-forth, and eventual escalation, that causes toxicity to begin with. Learn to let it go and let people have their thoughts.

So...about this rumored Direct for the 20th. How much faith do we have that its occurring? Should we be expecting an announcement tomorrow for a Direct on Monday? If we don't get one, then anything that happens on the 20th is likely to just be a mini direct since that's pretty much the only kind of directs that are stealth dropped.

Honestly I'm 100% sure there's a direct in July but I'm still unsure about the 20th. We never got a direct on monday so it's weird. But I'm pretty sure it's going to ne next week.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Aside from the Robin/Lucina 2014 reveal which technically wasn’t a direct, have we had any info reveals on a Monday, Direct or not?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Aside from the Robin/Lucina 2014 reveal which technically wasn’t a direct, have we had any info reveals on a Monday, Direct or not?

We just had Min Min's presentation on a Monday

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I see this thread is alive and well. More the usual...did something happen or just lively discussion, I tried going back a few pages and didn’t notice anything beyond the norm

 

[zferolie]

You gues see all this talk about how nintendo doesnt allow alterations s of mario characters anymore and doesnt allow any oc from a game to appear in any other game?

So apparently something interesting came up in regards to Paper Mario and it's characters. https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/paper-mario-origami-king/.

TL;DR: IS isn't allowed to make unique characters out of already established characters in the Mario Setting (like Goombario or Goombella), and while they can make wholly new characters that don't borrow design elements from the Mario Universe (Origami twins or stationery bosses); they can't keep on reusing them in the future (they're forced to be one offs).

And apparently this isn't just Nintendo controlling Paper Mario really hard either. According to this comment by a deleted insider at resetera from back in 2018 (this was made in a topic where people were wondering why Waluigi isn't in WarioWare).



Here's the truth:

Nintendo has a quality assurance team whose goal is to make sure that all of the characters and worlds stay consistent. It was established after the early Wii era...people like Miyamoto noticed around 2009-ish that Nintendo contractors like Camelot / Alphadream / Intelligent Systems were getting a little too liberal with their interpretations of the Mario IP...so now they watch over everything and establish standards.

It's this team that prevents Waluigi from appearing outside of sports games.



It's pretty much everything related to the Mario IP. AKA it's likely that this team also decides which Mario characters are allowed into Smash as spirits, mii costumes, assist trophies, and fighters. And considering that they're still being reluctant with allowing unique characters to return in future entries or giving them bigger roles in the rest of the Mario IP; I won't lie when I say it makes me a little hesitant on Geno's chances, so far every playable Mario character has had an appearance in multiple different mainline Mario games, so that may be the team's criteria for who gets to be playable or not. Waluigi for example is entirely relegated to spin-offs.

Hopefully Sakurai manages to convince this Mario IP team to let him add characters like Geno or Waluigi as playable characters this time, and maybe they end up seeing how much unique characters matter a lot to people and bring things like unique NPC/partner designs back.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You gues see all this talk about how nintendo doesnt allow alterations s of mario characters anymore and doesnt allow any oc from a game to appear in any other game?

Guess we’ll never get something like Mr. L again, rip

also, I GUESS this explains why Geno wasn’t in the Superstar Saga remake, not anything to do with Square Enix?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I see this thread is alive and well. More the usual...did something happen or just lively discussion, I tried going back a few pages and didn’t notice anything beyond the norm

Two rumours sprung forth championing two different characters.

A supposed leak got a detail right with Atelier Ryza getting a sequel, and it also claimed Ryza herself will be CP7.
The other one is a supposed Gamestop slip up where they claim everyone went crazy after Geno was announced for Smash.

 

[SharkLord]

I see this thread is alive and well. More the usual...did something happen or just lively discussion, I tried going back a few pages and didn’t notice anything beyond the norm

We spent a bit of time discussing an unlikely leak calling for Ryza, which nonetheless sparked some discussion regarding the Atelier series. The a GameStop video had an oddly-worded line that sounded like Geno was coming to Smash, but we all agreed that it was probably just poor wording and amounted to nothing. Then we had some discussions about toxic fandoms.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Speaking of Toxic Fandoms, how would a League of Legends character work in Smash? Would they interpret that characters moveset to Smash or would it be a more meta interpretation where you have to fight to gain exp to unlock more attacks?

And then you get banned for chosing the wrong build.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m lumping in the Ryza and LoL rumors with the Dante rumor during the base game period - had SOME correct info but others were blatantly false. Whether the leaker’s source included the false info or the leaker put that false info there themselves is unknown but it is what it is

 

[I.D.]

You gues see all this talk about how nintendo doesnt allow alterations s of mario characters anymore and doesnt allow any oc from a game to appear in any other game?

Not going to lie, assuming what is being said here is 100% the truth, and considering Nintendo is picking the DLC, characters like Geno and Waluigi seem pretty dead in the water. IF this "quality assurance team" for the Mario IP and its supposed function are real how would they ever get past it?

 

[3BitSaurus]

how would a League of Legends character work in Smash? Would they interpret that characters moveset to Smash or would ti be a more meta interpretation where you have to fight to gain exp to unlock more attacks?

Have I been summoned?

There's a few different interpretations people have come up with in the LoL thread. One is gaining levels and using these to upgrade your specials, as you said. Another is using Summoner Spells as a Hero-esque special.

But it all depends on who the chosen Champion would be, because every character in League has not only a bunch of special attacks, but also their own passive abilities, which in turn can be more or less complicated and influence the rest of the toolkit more or less. So it's all based on what you'd want out of a Champion in Smash.

Do you want to emphasize cooldowns? Poking? Using several specials that combo into one another? Builds? There are quite a lot of possibilities.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Was the Ryza leak from 4Chan?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Was the Ryza leak from 4Chan?

I... think so? I don’t remember. I do know the LoL rumor was

 

[Mamboo07]

I don't even know why we Smash fans believe in those stupid leaks...

Is this Ryza character you're talking about is the one with thick thighs?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't even know why we Smash fans believe in those stupid leaks...

Is this Ryza character you're talking about is the one with thick thighs?

Uh... yes though idk why you’d focus on THAT of all things

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The funny thing is the fan bases within smash itself. You can go over to the Geno thread and be blindsided by how intense they are then crawl on over to the Crash Bandicoot side where it’s largely chill.

That also goes for the fan bases of characters already in. The Metal Gear fan base is great. Kirby fan base is great.

Smashes fan base is really just a cluster **** of a TON of other fan bases underneath it’s own dedicated fan base so it really is a special case.

 

[zferolie]

Have I been summoned?

There's a few different interpretations people have come up with in the LoL thread. One is gaining levels and using these to upgrade your specials, as you said. Another is using Summoner Spells as a Hero-esque special.

But it all depends on who the chosen Champion would be, because every character in League has not only a bunch of special attacks, but also their own passive abilities, which in turn can be more or less complicated and influence the rest of the toolkit more or less. So it's all based on what you'd want out of a Champion in Smash.

Do you want to emphasize cooldowns? Poking? Using several specials that combo into one another? Builds? There are quite a lot of possibilities.

I think that would be a cool way to interpret a LoL or any moba character, the skills leveling through the match, even through death. So at the start of a match Ahri(the one i want) would be weakish, but the longer a match goes she would get stronger, through pokeing, kos, and ither methods. She would be very unique that way for sure and would be great for longer matches

I don't even know why we Smash fans believe in those stupid leaks...

Is this Ryza character you're talking about is the one with thick thighs?

Thicc thighs saves lives

The funny thing is the fan bases within smash itself. You can go over to the Geno thread and be blindsided by how intense they are then crawl on over to the Crash Bandicoot side where it’s largely chill.

That also goes for the fan bases of characters already in. The Metal Gear fan base is great. Kirby fan base is great.

Smashes fan base is really just a cluster **** of a TON of other fan bases underneath it’s own dedicated fan base so it really is a special case.

Thats true. Geno thread is constantly intense, meanwhile the shantae and crash threads kinda just go with the flow, more focused on their own games and then have smash talk.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Legit question. Why do people put any stock into 4chan leaks. Is there a history of them ever being a location for anything even remotely real in terms of leaks? Isn’t it the same thing as posting something here and claiming you are a leaker except without posting a username?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Legit question. Why do people put any stock into 4chan leaks. Is there a history of them ever being a location for anything even remotely real in terms of leaks? Isn’t it the same thing as posting something here and claiming you are a leaker except without posting a username?

ESRB leak originated on 4chan so