Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Swamp Sensei]

do you guys think they will add a character from the Xenoblade Chronicles series of games

Yes, but its the one you like the least.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Did you read those articles? Your reply makes me think you didn't.

From Atlus' Manager:


From Sakurai and Horii's interview:


Nintendo didn't tell Sakurai to include Joker, he initiated those talks himself. Nintendo didn't tell Sakurai to include Dragon Quest, they merely told him it might be possible if he decided to go for it.

Even within Nintendo's confines Sakurai has choice. It's why we got Byleth over another Three Houses character, and Min Min over another ARMS character.

Sakurai has a significant role in character decision and negotiation. Nintendo also has a significant role in character decision and negotiation. To act like one has more influence than the other is reductionist, and runs contrary to the information currently available.

Yep, still getting the clear impression Nintendo chose the literal characters first. Sakurai then discusses it with them and has the choice to include those characters or not. That's where his "choice" part comes in. Nintendo choosing the characters is referring to the fact they actually have a character set up, then talk to Sakurai about it. I'm not seeing otherwise or any reason to believe this isn't first on Nintendo and that Sakurai has never been given a "franchise" to choose from. None of these statements contradict it whatsoever.

So let's move on. I don't believe in another interpretation. It has always been "Nintendo suggests a character, Sakurai gets the choice to include them or not based upon only factors he knows." to me, and that includes with this data in mind. What the Persona statement tells me is that Nintendo directly asked him if he should include Joker, and he said yes due to the love of his series. Simple as that. Dragon Quest was no different. Min Min was effectively the same situation(it's just Nintendo got a suggestion from Yabuki first).

With that, I'm going to end it here. I am definitely not convinced otherwise.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, but its the one you like the least.

man i hate melia so much i hate her i hate jin too i hate melia and/or jin so much i really hope they don't add one of them because i hate them a lot and i do not like them at all

 

[Rie Sonomura]

As far as I'm aware, all that would need to happen is a revision to CSS UI structure itself. Believe it or not, the game actually has a lot of memory to work with when running. So nothing would have to be modified there.

I really hope it wouldn’t involve a page 2... it was so awkward in Smash 3DS

 

[Deleted member]

I don't believe in another interpretation.

christians when the new testament happens or something idk i never played bible adventures for the nes

 

[Hinata]

I'm not seeing otherwise

So let's move on. I don't believe in another interpretation.

I am definitely not convinced otherwise.

Ah yes, the classic Smash community argument ender of "My version of the events makes more sense to me, therefore your argument holds no water and I won't listen to it because I want to believe that I'm right".

 

[3BitSaurus]

So... I might have solved the mystery regarding Smash Ultimate's DLC placeholder amounts regarding characters. Note: What I am about to say does not indicate how many DLC characters we'll get and this explanation is just speculation. Nothing has been outright confirmed.

Okay, so let's do a quick refresher on what these placeholders are, where they're located in the game, and how many exist.

[spirits_campaign_enc_foto_param.prc]: As you can tell by the filename, this is meant for World of Light. If you've heard of the "WoL Placeholders", this is the file that those placeholders come from. In 1.0.0, this file contained 16 Placeholders. Now, as you would expect, up to 3.0.0, DLC characters would be gradually filling in those placeholders. However... after 4.0.0, this file got really inconsistent with it's revision history. Placeholders would be added and randomly removed in each subsequent update. If you want a graphic showing it's revision history through each update... I have one down below. It's simply fascinating lmao.

Note: dummy_01 is missing because plant is taking up a spot in 1.0.0.

[attack_log_parameter.prc]: Now... this file is rarely talked about. However, this is another parameter file that also contains the 16 placeholders. And unlike [spirits_campaign_enc_foto_param.prc], this file has a consistent revision history! This means every single character released thus far has used up more and more placeholders. Neat.

Main Executable: Turns out, there's more placeholders in the executable of the game! However, compared to the 16 placeholders within the parameter files, there is a whopping 29 placeholders that exist. (And no, it's 29. Many have rounded it to 30 over the years, and that's actually incorrect. It's directly 29 lol.)
These placeholders also have a consistent revision history, meaning none have been added or removed. Just taken up by released DLC fighters.

So... taken all together, there's two numbers that are front and center regarding SSBU's DLC placeholder amounts. 16 and 29. At first glance, these numbers seem completely contradicting to one another. However, after thinking about it, I believe there is an explanation on why they went with the numbers they did.

I made the realization ago that the 16 placeholder amounts inexplicably lined-up with the Max CSS of the game. For those who don't know, after more than 91 CSS icons are enabled, Smash Ultimate crashes because it's not programmed to handle more than that amount.

Turns out, if you count all the blank spots and DLC characters on screen, you get 16 spots. Same as the placeholder!

So... judging by this, you could make the conclusion that the 16 placeholders were explicitly put there as a response to what the dev team knew the CSS could handle at the time (or at least what they wanted it to handle.) Which, is a very neat discovery.

However, this still doesn't explain the 29 placeholders, and why 29 of all numbers was chosen. Well... this is where 8.0.0's stage select screen comes in to give me a stunning realization.

In 8.0.0, the stage select screen was updated in order to handle more stages coming down the line as part of Fighter Pass Vol. 2. Not only was there a new row added, but a new folder called [stage_select2] was added.

So... I looked at that and thought... "what if another row was added to the CSS to?" So I made an image mock-up (not to scale of course), and... low and behold, I came to a stunning realization.

Adding another row nets you the 29 placeholders in Smash Ultimate's executable!

So... basically... what can we take away from all of this?

- It seems like the placeholder amounts introduced into the game have a relationship with the Character Selection Screen.
- If I were to guess what type of relationship, I think that these placeholder amounts were most likely chosen to fit the dev team's idea of what the CSS could handle.
- I also think that if we do get more after Vol. 2, this shows they will probably treat the CSS just like the stage select, and probably add another folder instead of replace existing files.

Again, this is not indicative of the content we will get. However, it does show how the dev team really future proofed the game very efficiently. It also gives a possible explanation on why they chose the numbers that they did, which is neat.

Interesting! What I don't get is why they're even bothering to add more slots to the CSS when the ones they already have would be enough to accomodate for both seasons of DLC. I really doubt all 29 slots would be filled, that would be like... 3 more seasons of DLC, going by a similar format as the two Passes.

Maybe for some reason the CSS and SSS need to have similar numbers/rows in the slots? I dunno, I'm struggling to think of reasons why that would even be a thing with the UI.

 

[Perkilator]

do you guys think they will add a character from the Xenoblade Chronicles series of games

If we do, I wish it was at least Riki in the base game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

people seem to forget KH is basically Nomuras fanfic in game form and with fan fics comes Original content but people are too focused on the mainly useless disney aspect of the game to see the many many many forms of Original content in the game

No, everyone is fully aware of all the OC content in KH. But it might not matter.

The fact that the OC content exists is irrelevant because Nintendo still might not consider KH and video game original property, and you STILL have to deal Disney, even for the non-Disney stuff, because it's all still owned by Disney.

ah, I see, Well I stand corrected. I was always told they belonged to Nomura and SE

It's probably the only reason TWEWY even exists(and wasn't some kind of KH spinoff) is because Nomura wanted to do the KH thing again with something SE fully owned.

 

[SnowClaws]

I didn't even bother reading the rest of this cause what on Earth is this reasoning
they'd turn down Master Chief being in Smash cause it messes with the lore?
Smash inherently screws with the lore, if you're of the camp that believes the characters to be themselves and not madeup clones
they'd turn down Smash over the lore???

if Smash added characters based on lore, quite a few characters wouldn't be here for various spoiler reasons

Before starting a rant, you should already read the entire message, otherwise it would be out of context/misdirection of the original intent behind the message.

Anyway, the short summary is Master Chief didn't appears in Dead or Alive 4 due to Bungle because of their reasoning that it messes with the Halo storyline/canon. With this reasoning, 343, the studio who handle the current Halo, may uses the same excuse as Bungle on why Master Chief cannot appears in Smash.

Personally, I don't mind which character(s) gets in Smash, and I am fine with anyone if it make sense in context.

You guys need to re-read his message. He never said that he himself personally thinks Chief won't get in because it'll mess with the Halo lore smh

He's saying Bungie cared about the lore because apparently it affected Chief's appearance in DoA (I didn't click the link to verify the source), which is why DoA has a different Spartan. 343 may have the same idea so it might affect Chief's chances for being in Smash (which I personally don't think it will).

Thank you for reading the entire message, and I did some further research to expand the topic a bit.

I kind of forget that Arbiter appears in Killer Instinct, and not Master Chief. So, history sort of repeat with this since Arbiter in Killer Instinct isn't a pre-existing character, and therefore it is non-canon to the Halo lore just like how the Spartan in DoA 4 (though the character itself is canon, and the DoA 4 part is non-canon).

To summarize, the Spartan-458 in DoA 4 (Bungle) and the Aribiter in KI (343) only appears in these game due to them not conflicting with the Halo storyline/canon.

 

[epicmartin7]

I really hope it wouldn’t involve a page 2... it was so awkward in Smash 3DS

The post implies that there probably won't be a 2nd page. If more is added, it will most likely just be another row.

Interesting! What I don't get is why they're even bothering to add more slots to the CSS when the ones they already have would be enough to accomodate for both seasons of DLC. I really doubt all 29 slots would be filled, that would be like... 3 more seasons of DLC, going by a similar format as the two Passes.

Maybe for some reason the CSS and SSS need to have similar numbers/rows in the slots? I dunno, I'm struggling to think of reasons why that would even be a thing with the UI.

No data has been added yet to allow the CSS to support the 29 placeholders in the executable. The game still crashes at 91 CSS icons (the one with 16 placeholders.) The CSS you see with 104 icons (and the 29 placeholders) is just a not to scale mockup.

 

[3BitSaurus]

No data has been added yet to allow the CSS to support the 29 placeholders in the executable. The game still crashes at 91 CSS icons (the one with 16 placeholders.) The CSS you see with 104 icons (and the 29 placeholders) is just a not to scale mockup.

Oops, I meant the original WoL slots with irregular updates, not the CSS itself. My bad.

 

[epicmartin7]

Oops, I meant the original WoL slots with irregular updates, not the CSS itself. My bad.

Oh LOL, your good. There's a lot of stuff in there to get confused on. If anyone needs any clarification on stuff let me know.

Anyway, I'm unsure why the file revision history is so wonky too. Terry's update baffles me even more because they just removed a placeholder for no reason lol.

 

[Garteam]

Since Sora is the current discussion. What does everyone think of his actual chances?

Things going for him and barriers against his inclusion?

I'd put Sora's chances around a 33% chance, personally. He's got a ton going in his favour (his popularity, how influential his games are, his unique moveset potential), but competition from other Square characters and the unpredictability of Disney still make him difficult to really pin down as certain.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Do we really need some random Tweet to remind us that Smash fans only focus on these characters? Well, not Ty at least. But I'm sure someone would assign arbitrary hype points to him anyway.

Who do you want? Also that picture doesn’t include the likes of Rex, a Sw/Sh Pokemon, Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Isaac & Waluigi who are all talked about just as often.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

me talkin' about Adol Christin and Bravely Edea while y'all out here talkin' about Lloyd Irvin and Yuri Lowenthall

 

[Calamitas]

Yes, but its the one you like the least.

Ma'crish?!

 

[Garteam]

Who do you want? Also that picture doesn’t include the likes of Rex, a Sw/Sh Pokemon, Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Isaac & Waluigi who are all talked about just as often.

I think the point is less "locking ourselves into a set of 20-30 characters deemed likely is bad because they're not who I want" and more "locking ourselves into a set of 20-30 characters deemed likely is bad because it leaves us blindsided when Sakurai inevitably ventures outside those 20-30 characters".

 

[TwiceEXE]

You are placed in charge of choosing the game the next character comes from, but the catch is your least favorite character from that game gets in. What game do you choose?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Oh LOL, your good. There's a lot of stuff in there to get confused on. If anyone needs any clarification on stuff let me know.

Anyway, I'm unsure why the file revision history is so wonky too. Terry's update baffles me even more because they just removed a placeholder for no reason lol.

Yeah, there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to which characters use slots, either. PP and Joker did, then Hero and BK didn't. At that point, you'd think "maybe they come in twos", but then Byleth didn't use one after Terry and neither did Min Min, who wasn't part of the first wave.

Alt costumes and characters that use multiple models don't seem to factor in either (I assume that to be the reason why Ice Climbers, along with PT and their Pokémon, are at the bottom of the list). Otherwise Joker, Hero and Byleth would all have had a similar treatment.

I mean, none of this indicates anything towards future DLC, but why that file was made this way is certaily a big riddle.

 

[Calamitas]

You are placed in charge of choosing the game the next character comes from, but the catch is your least favorite character from that game gets in. What game do you choose?

Bozé Lowes?!

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

You are placed in charge of choosing the game the next character comes from, but the catch is your least favorite character from that game gets in. What game do you choose?

Rayman. Because my least favorite character is Globox Rayman and that’s still Rayman. So I still win.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You are placed in charge of choosing the game the next character comes from, but the catch is your least favorite character from that game gets in. What game do you choose?

Kingdom Hearts

JOKES ON YOU I DON'T HAVE A LEAST FAVORITE CHARACTER.

Actually, I kinda dislike Sora thinking about it. I'm actually being serious.

In KH3 he's just kinda stupid and gets away with it. I also dislike how heavily the plot relies on him when he's surrounded by other great characters like Riku and Aqua, who are butchered for the purpose of focusing on Sora.

Alternatively, Kairi is less than useless, so she'd be an alternate choice.

 

[epicmartin7]

Yeah, there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to which characters use slots, either. PP and Joker did, then Hero and BK didn't. At that point, you'd think "maybe they come in twos", but then Byleth didn't use one after Terry and neither did Min Min, who wasn't part of the first wave.

Alt costumes and characters that use multiple models don't seem to factor in either (I assume that to be the reason why Ice Climbers, along with PT and their Pokémon, are at the bottom of the list). Otherwise Joker, Hero and Byleth would all have had a similar treatment.

I mean, none of this indicates anything towards future DLC, but why that file was made this way is certaily a big riddle.

Yeah. Alt costumes are exempt as they work completely differently compared to characters. They don't take up separate character entries, they're just little param values you can easily modify.

Personally, I don't think there's anything to the revision history per say, but I do agree it's very very weird. Especially for that one specific file. Either the team knows what their doing, or Sakurai has been hanging around Snoop dog lol.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I think the point is less "locking ourselves into a set of 20-30 characters deemed likely is bad because they're not who I want" and more "locking ourselves into a set of 20-30 characters deemed likely is bad because it leaves us blindsided when Sakurai inevitably ventures outside those 20-30 characters".

Smaller characters get brought up a decent amount. But the conversation keeps going back to certain characters because they’re from beloved series/games that people would want to see join Smash.

There was no way to predict Terry or especially Joker. & I’m sure we’ll get atleast one more character like that. But it’s not a bad thing that we didn’t talk about them. We’re just speculating; it’s all for fun, it’s not something we need to be serious or dead on about lol

In addition, speculating & showing a lot of support for your most wanted character can help in the long run. Obviously it’s not a guarantee as seen with characters like Geno or Bandana Waddle Dee. But characters like Ridley, K Rool & Banjo probably never would’ve ever gotten in if it wasn’t for fans talking about them for years.

 

[Nekoo]

Kingdom Hearts

JOKES ON YOU I DON'T HAVE A LEAST FAVORITE CHARACTER.

Actually, I kinda dislike Sora thinking about it. I'm actually being serious.

In KH3 he's just kinda stupid and gets away with it. I also dislike how heavily the plot relies on him when he's surrounded by other great characters like Riku and Aqua, who are butchered for the purpose of focusing on Sora.

Alternatively, Kairi is less than useless, so she'd be an alternate choice.

Tbh-

Spoiler: Quick KH3 Rant

They keep teasing us that big Keyblade war that is incoming, how Xehanorth is a mastermind, but he seems pretty ****ing stupid all around, his vessels are doing dumb **** too.
They keep teasing us the power of waking or just how amazing being a keyblade master.
Sora's powerlevel is the most inconsistant **** ever, between KH1 where he's actually a normal boy, KH2 where he's basically a freaking Super Saiyan god and KH3 who don't know on what foot to stand between incompetant idiot in cutscene or incredible fighters in gameplay and some others cutscenes.

KH3 is a good game. Not a great game. Not the game we all wanted it to be. But **** me if the plot ain' almost the worst one yet

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You are placed in charge of choosing the game the next character comes from, but the catch is your least favorite character from that game gets in. What game do you choose?

...It's weird. I can't think of any character in Quest 64 I actually can hate enough to even be a least favorite. I like 'em all. I guess the closest might be Shilf, due to having both attacks remove my enchantments, and she's actually pretty cool-looking. And basically a similar boy to Mai Shirenai, so... close enough?

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

You are placed in charge of choosing the game the next character comes from, but the catch is your least favorite character from that game gets in. What game do you choose?

The clown from Skyward Sword? I'm...

Out. That's just too much.

 

[I.D.]

You are free to believe Sakurai is still choosing characters in spite of everything if you want, but he has stated on multiple occasions that the selection of DLC characters has been made by Nintendo and not by him.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Yes, but its the one you like the least.

finally

tora smash brothers

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You are placed in charge of choosing the game the next character comes from, but the catch is your least favorite character from that game gets in. What game do you choose?

Jokes on you, I don’t hate anyone in TWEWY -

remembers A New Day

remembers Coco Atarashi exists

...****.

 

[SKX31]

You are placed in charge of choosing the game the next character comes from, but the catch is your least favorite character from that game gets in. What game do you choose?

Dota 2.

Techies. The character(s) that lay mines and traps everywhere and have a (semi-)Kamikaze button if they get into disadvantage (Long CD on that, but still).

Tbh-

Spoiler: Quick KH3 Rant

They keep teasing us that big Keyblade war that is incoming, how Xehanorth is a mastermind, but he seems pretty ****ing stupid all around, his vessels are doing dumb **** too.
They keep teasing us the power of waking or just how amazing being a keyblade master.
Sora's powerlevel is the most inconsistant **** ever, between KH1 where he's actually a normal boy, KH2 where he's basically a freaking Super Saiyan god and KH3 who don't know on what foot to stand between incompetant idiot in cutscene or incredible fighters in gameplay and some others cutscenes.

KH3 is a good game. Not a great game. Not the game we all wanted it to be. But **** me if the plot ain' almost the worst one yet

Spoiler: Related to the KH Spoilers

It's a shame too, because KH's story has tons of potential - it's just mired in what the writer(s) believe a good story has while missing a lot in reality. "Show, Don't Tell" is one such area KH's story misses on a bit - like again, the Keyblade war.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Tbh-

Spoiler: Quick KH3 Rant

They keep teasing us that big Keyblade war that is incoming, how Xehanorth is a mastermind, but he seems pretty ****ing stupid all around, his vessels are doing dumb **** too.
They keep teasing us the power of waking or just how amazing being a keyblade master.
Sora's powerlevel is the most inconsistant **** ever, between KH1 where he's actually a normal boy, KH2 where he's basically a freaking Super Saiyan god and KH3 who don't know on what foot to stand between incompetant idiot in cutscene or incredible fighters in gameplay and some others cutscenes.

KH3 is a good game. Not a great game. Not the game we all wanted it to be. But **** me if the plot ain' almost the worst one yet

I think Re:Mind makes things a lot better, and I'm actually interested to see where the story goes now, but I agree KH3's story is pretty messy.

Doing platinum runs of KH2 and KH3 makes me realize how much KH3 would've benefited from a significant story event in the middle a lá Radiant Garden 2 (3?) in KH2.

I also think it suffered from a perceived need to set up the next major arc, when it really should've focused more on wrapping up the Xehanort Saga in a satisfying way.

 

[ganondorf_22]

I had a vision of Pascal from Animal Crossing, but he was drawn in PaRappa the Rapper's style. So maybe he'll be the next character to get in.

 

[M@R!3]

Kingdom Hearts

JOKES ON YOU I DON'T HAVE A LEAST FAVORITE CHARACTER.

Actually, I kinda dislike Sora thinking about it. I'm actually being serious.

In KH3 he's just kinda stupid and gets away with it. I also dislike how heavily the plot relies on him when he's surrounded by other great characters like Riku and Aqua, who are butchered for the purpose of focusing on Sora.

Alternatively, Kairi is less than useless, so she'd be an alternate choice.

At least he isn't DDD Sora.

 

[Lamperouge]

You are placed in charge of choosing the game the next character comes from, but the catch is your least favorite character from that game gets in. What game do you choose?

Bravely Default...

Airy bout to nag the other fighters into awakening crystals all day.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

At least he isn't DDD Sora.

okay but DDD Sora has this:

Imagine that as a taunt.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Bravely Default...

Airy bout to nag the other fighters into awakening crystals all day.

Spoiler: BD spoips

you complain now... but wait till she reveals her true intentions

 

[Calamitas]

Bravely Default...

Airy bout to nag the other fighters into awakening crystals all day.

Something tells me she'd very easily gravitate towards the Links for that.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

You are placed in charge of choosing the game the next character comes from, but the catch is your least favorite character from that game gets in. What game do you choose?

I get a TimeSplitters rep... but it's my least favourite character... Now who could I possibly hate in Timespli-

Spoiler