Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Iko MattOrr]

Ooh, that would be a rough choice.

I would be happy for anyone from Kirby, although I would probably have a bitter taste in my mouth if it was Marx. I love Marx himself, but I do feel like Smash has more than enough Super Star.

However, if I were to point to the most foul character in the entirety of the Kirby series... I can only think of one.

View attachment 278238
Screw this guy. Never leaves the background long enough for me to kill him.

Someone with hacking skills should model swap this guy over Pokèmon Trainer...

 

[Faso115]

Do we still tie newcomers to upcoming games or is that just a long debunked rumor?

Maybe i just want to know if Crash 4 has an upcoming port for the Switch. Of course after a Crash in smash reveal...

 

[Cosmic77]

I feel like the actual next fighter isn't on this picture.

Considering how the only first-party in the picture is Min Min, it wouldn't be a huge shock if none of these were F7.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Nothing against all the other third party series but it'd be very strange for any to have three while Sonic is stuck at one imo.

And I don't even care that much about Sonic's supporting cast. None are going to be on my top ten. I just recognize the size and popularity of the series.

Plus, while not entirely paramount, Sonic is the only series with perfect attendance since third-parties in Smash became a thing.

With all that in mind, a second character at this point seems warranted.

I'll honestly take a complete revamp of sonic's moveset more than anything at this point

 

[Dinoman96]

Do we still tie newcomers to upcoming games or is that just a long debunked rumor?

I don't know, where's that new Banjo game?

 

[Jomosensual]

Maybe the next fighter will be Ellie from Last of Us 2.

That would be dope as hell.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Do we still tie newcomers to upcoming games or is that just a long debunked rumor?

Maybe i just want to know if Crash 4 has an upcoming port for the Switch. Of course after a Crash in smash reveal...

Crash 4 is slated to be on PS4 and Xbone, no Switch.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Crash 4 is slated to be on PS4 and Xbone, no Switch.

Until 2021, expect the year delay like with N Sane and Reignited.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Until 2021, expect the year delay like with N Sane and Reignited.

Is this confirmed, or assumed?

Because the last time people assumed a game was coming out for Switch, I thought I might have had to buy a third copy of Persona 5 like my friend has.

 

[Shroob]

Is this confirmed, or assumed?

Because the last time people assumed a game was coming out for Switch, I thought I might have had to buy a third copy of Persona 5 like my friend did.

Assumed, though both Crash and Spyro did have the "They were exclusive for a year, then ported to Switch."

 

[SirBillyBob]

pic.twitter.com/fVb8iGt1Rl

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 13, 2020

Samus has sent out an emergency distress call: Join the fight!

 

[chocolatejr9]

I don't know, where's that new Banjo game?

The new Banjo game was the friends we made along the way.

 

[MooMew64]

No way Crash 4 skips Switch. It'll be running on the N. Sane Trilogy engine most likely, so there's really no reason to skip when the Switch ports of Crash and Spyro were received so well.

TBH Switch and PC only get delayed because it takes longer to build the ports for those versions. Also wouldn't surprise me if Activision is hoping to inspire people to double-dip as well.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

pic.twitter.com/fVb8iGt1Rl

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 13, 2020

Samus has sent out an emergency distress call: Join the fight!

Possibly a loose remake of Super Metroid's boxart?


Also I really want to see Kraid show up in another Metroid game one day.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The number one issue with Chun-Li is that she'd be the first non-clone second character from a third party IP, and well...Smash just hasn't gotten to that point yet.

Unique secondary characters have been mostly reserved for the first party IPs, like Bowser, K. Rool, Zelda, Peach, Ridley, etc. Like maybe in the future they may start doing it, but I just don't see characters like Chun-Li or Eggman being made playable right now when there's just other all new third party IPs that can be included instead.

And doing a second character from a company was unheard of before Ryu, and doing a second character from a 3rd Party series was unheard of before Richter. I thought we were done with fanrules?

Chun-Li is more than iconic enough to break that barrier.

Since when did Chun-Li become a notable spot to grab the letter?

Since she became one of the most famous video game characters in existence?

She's appeared in nearly as many crossovers as Ryu has and is as much of a household name in video games in her own right.

Not even "nearly as many", Smash is literally the ONLY crossover where Ryu is playable and not her, let alone Ken.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Did anyone post this yet?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If anyone wants a refresher on who could be plausible candidates for Fighters Pass 2, here you go. There are some questionable picks but regardless it's got pretty much every relevant to discussion character.

I see people are still sleeping on Travis Touchdown and Kazuma Kiryu.

 

[Jomosensual]

And doing a second character from a company was unheard of before Ryu, and doing a second character from a 3rd Party series was unheard of before Richter. I thought we were done with fanrules?

Chun-Li is more than iconic enough to break that barrier.

Since she became one of the most famous video game characters in existence?

Still think she should have been in before Ken

 

[Perkilator]

I see people are still sleeping on Travis Touchdown and Kazuma Kiryu.

People are more sleeping on Sakura Shinguji, if anything.

Still think she should have been in before Ken

I'm guessing the reason got in first is because Sakurai didn't want people to think he was biased towards a certain 3rd party franchise (especially considering that Chun-Li would be the third Capcom rep overall, had she gotten in first).

 

[ligersandtigons]

IMO, with Min Min in the game and with Sakurai originally planning on going with Ninjara, I feel like Chun Li and Ryu Hayabusa aren't in the Fighter's Pass.

Both Min Min and Ninjara have a pretty big thematic overlap with Chun Li and Hayabusa and I feel like Nintendo would rather have a more diverse line up.

Idk tho, just my perspective

 

[Swamp Sensei]

IMO, with Min Min in the game and with Sakurai originally planning on going with Ninjara, I feel like Chun Li and Ryu Hayabusa aren't in the Fighter's Pass.

Both Min Min and Ninjara have a pretty big thematic overlap with Chun Li and Hayabusa and I feel like Nintendo would rather have a more diverse line up.

Idk tho, just my perspective

and



seem to overlap.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'm guessing the reason got in first is because Sakurai didn't want people to think he was biased towards a certain 3rd party franchise (especially considering that Chun-Li would be the third Capcom rep overall, had she gotten in first).

I won't be naming any specific franchises to avoid setting a time bomb, but looking at several of the discrepancies in representation already, I don't think Sakurai cares about looking "biased".

 

[ligersandtigons]

and



seem to overlap.

I disagree

Swordsmen is a pretty broad "theme."

 

[Arcanir]

I'm guessing the reason got in first is because Sakurai didn't want people to think he was biased towards a certain 3rd party franchise (especially considering that Chun-Li would be the third Capcom rep overall, had she gotten in first).

It's more then likely because he can be easily cloned. Chun-Li would pretty much need to be a full newcomer as there's no clear character she can copy attributes from to save time and resources, and considering how restricted the base newcomer roster ended up being she couldn't slot in anywhere among them. Ken could just use Ryu as a base and then be built on from there, and since he is one of the most notable P2 characters in Fighting games he was an easy fit for the Echo feature.

IMO, with Min Min in the game and with Sakurai originally planning on going with Ninjara, I feel like Chun Li and Ryu Hayabusa aren't in the Fighter's Pass.

Both Min Min and Ninjara have a pretty big thematic overlap with Chun Li and Hayabusa and I feel like Nintendo would rather have a more diverse line up.

Idk tho, just my perspective

I don't think Min Min would be much of a barrier since she's still primarily based around her ARMs which Chun-Li would not share with her, you can easily differentiate the two. Same with Ninjara and Hayabusa, of which additionally the former was ultimately not the one they picked and thus wouldn't be much of a consideration past the concept phase.

 

[SharkLord]

After a bit of reading, I've decided my opinions on Chun-Li were worded incorrectly. Street Fighter representation does lean pretty heavily towards SF2, but what it does have is a lot for a third-party. There's also the fact that Chun-Li is associated with SF2 more than anything, and that's the part that's already heavily represented. If we get someone to represent modern Street Fighter, it'd be someone like Juri or Rashid, but we're not getting them before Chun-Li or Akuma, and their game is already heavily represented, so chances are we're not getting any more Street Fighter, not in FP2 at least.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I disagree

Swordsmen is a pretty broad "theme."

So is "Ninja" or "Chinese girl."

 

[ligersandtigons]

It's more then likely because he can be easily cloned. Chun-Li would pretty much need to be a full newcomer as there's no clear character she can copy attributes from to save time and resources, and considering how restricted the base newcomer roster ended up being she couldn't slot in anywhere among them. Ken could just use Ryu as a base and then be built on from there, and since he is one of the most notable P2 characters in Fighting games he was an easy fit for the Echo feature.



I don't think Min Min would be much of a barrier since she's still primarily based around her ARMs which Chun-Li would not share with her, you can easily differentiate the two. Same with Ninjara and Hayabusa, of which additionally the former was ultimately not the one they picked and thus wouldn't be much of a consideration past the concept phase.

That's true. Hypothetically if Chun Li was picked before Min Min, I don't think Sakurai would say no to the ARMS guy's request and tell him to pick somebody else. If he wanted Min Min to be in really badly, I think Sakurai would honor the request regardless of any character overlap.

 

[N3ON]

People are more sleeping on Sakura Shinguji, if anything.

In most of the world Sakura makes Terry look like Cloud freaking Strife.

I'm guessing the reason got in first is because Sakurai didn't want people to think he was biased towards a certain 3rd party franchise (especially considering that Chun-Li would be the third Capcom rep overall, had she gotten in first).

Ken got in because he can be, and pretty much famously is, a clone. Chun-Li wouldn't be.

I won't be naming any specific franchises to avoid setting a time bomb, but looking at several of the discrepancies in representation already, I don't think Sakurai cares about looking "biased".

I do think Sakurai cares about looking biased, I just don't think he's say no to Nintendo's request over it.

I disagree

Swordsmen is a pretty broad "theme."

The only thing that ties Min Min/Ninjara, Chun Li and Ryu Hayabusa together is being thematically Asian. They wouldn't play the same, look the same, or originate from the same series or company. To that end, those examples are all thematically European, and they still managed to happen.

 

[Aetheri]

IMO, with Min Min in the game and with Sakurai originally planning on going with Ninjara, I feel like Chun Li and Ryu Hayabusa aren't in the Fighter's Pass.

Both Min Min and Ninjara have a pretty big thematic overlap with Chun Li and Hayabusa and I feel like Nintendo would rather have a more diverse line up.

Idk tho, just my perspective

We don't know how early Sakurai settled on Min Min compared to the other fighters. Min Min (especially considering she's the first one released) was likely one of the first characters they chose and anyone else may have been chosen shortly afterwards.

Sakurai may have been considering Ninjara, for the simple reason that he may want a ninja, so by that logic as well seems to make Ryu Hayabusa look pretty good in that case. And the comparison with Min Min and Chun-Li?...Chun Li doesn't have extendable arms, wrong Street Fighter character lol

In reality it doesn't really mean anything, one way or another. If Sakurai can come with something unique mechanically then it doesn't matter if there's two ninjas or two kicking martial artists.

 

[ligersandtigons]

So is "Ninja" or "Chinese girl."

Min Min and Chun Li have more in common than simply being Chinese and female. I'm sure we both know this lol

But anyways, he number of prominent swordsmen characters vastly outnumbers the number of prominent ninja characters.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

No way Crash 4 skips Switch. It'll be running on the N. Sane Trilogy engine most likely, so there's really no reason to skip when the Switch ports of Crash and Spyro were received so well.

TBH Switch and PC only get delayed because it takes longer to build the ports for those versions. Also wouldn't surprise me if Activision is hoping to inspire people to double-dip as well.

"Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time" is actually running on "Unreal Engine 4" while N.Sane Trilogy was running on "Alchemy Engine" which is used in-house by developer "Vicarious Visions" (Activision Subsidiary), Also was used for CTR: Nitro Fueled, But your point still stands because "Spyro: Reignited Trilogy" was running on UE4 which was made by "Toys for Bob" who are the same team taking on Crash 4. Based on how the well the other games have performed on the system, I'm absolutely sure a Switch port will come next year.

Even if for whatever unlikely and weird reason Crash Bandicoot 4 doesn't come to Nintendo Switch next year, It still doesn't erase his strong presence on the system, With 2 high quality titles in both N.Sane Trilogy and Nitro Fueled that can have plenty of material pulled from there to cross promote and work into Smash.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Do we still tie newcomers to upcoming games or is that just a long debunked rumor?

Maybe i just want to know if Crash 4 has an upcoming port for the Switch. Of course after a Crash in smash reveal...

Not really, I think they are more tied to company relationships and Nintendo does have a strong relationship with all of the companies who have a rep in Smash, a big reason why I aint expecting Crash is due to Nintendo and Activision not having much of a relationship due to how often Activision skips the Switch.

 

[Icedragonadam]

And Activision is among the most greedy game companies, so it wouldn't be surprising if getting the license for him, his stage, music, and Spirits would probably be more expensive than Cloud. Combine that with the language barrier and it'll be harder than Banjo to get Crash in Smash.

 

[venomthebest]

what about companies that already have a rep? can we expect someone like say steve? it seems that microsoft has a good relation with nintendo. and does cuphead count?

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I think that with FP1 logic, Nintendo wanted more diversity in smash; Joker is from Atlus (that is owned by Sega but still publishes their titles at Japan), Hero is from former Enix side of Square-Enix, Banjo is from Microsoft and Byleth is from a mid-life Switch title.

So far with FP2, they decided to put Min Min from Arms that is an early life Switch game. I think that if we get a FP3 at 2022, we will get another Nintendo fighter from a late-life Switch title (2021/22). Maybe theu give the chance to put characters from unrepresented companies like Koei-Tecmo (Ryu Hayabusa?), Arc System Works (Sol Badguy?), From Software (something from Dark Souls?) or Activision-Blizzard (Crash?).

finally, include this 9 (in the order you want) and I will be completely satisfied with ultimate roster:

- elma
- chorus kids
- 2021/22 Nintendo game character
- crash
- dante
- sora
- ryu hayabusa
- sol badguy
- doomslayer

 

[Glaciacott]

IMO, with Min Min in the game and with Sakurai originally planning on going with Ninjara, I feel like Chun Li and Ryu Hayabusa aren't in the Fighter's Pass.

Both Min Min and Ninjara have a pretty big thematic overlap with Chun Li and Hayabusa and I feel like Nintendo would rather have a more diverse line up.

Idk tho, just my perspective

I don't know about Chun-Li. I don't think Min Min lowers her chances as much as I think other Capcom reps make her unlikely.

Now, the ninja stuff led me to a different conclusion. Given Sakurai went Greninja when looking at Gen 6 pokemon and now almost gave us Ninjara when looking at Arms characters, we should definitely be making a "Sakurai loves Ninjas" bias/rule.

Which gives a huge boost to Hayabusa and any other ninja character not already deconfirmed. So let's see... Mortal Kombat ninjas, Genji, Jago, Yuffie from FF7, the Ninjalas, a Ninji, Ninja Kirby and Jammin' Ninja. I'm probably forgetting a ton...

 

[osby]

Now, the ninja stuff led me to a different conclusion. Given Sakurai went Greninja when looking at Gen 6 pokemon and now almost gave us Ninjara when looking at Arms characters, we should definitely be making a "Sakurai loves Ninjas" bias/rule.

That probably has more to do with TPC already having plans about promoting Greninja and Ninjara being easily the most popular male ARMS character in Japan by far.

Btw, Smash fandom ignoring how beloved Ninjara is among the ARMS community is a bias by itself (due to the stupid "ARMS fans only like female characters" perception) and is why so many people were blindsided about him being considered.

 

[Glaciacott]

That probably has more to do with TPC already having plans about promoting Greninja and Ninjara being easily the most popular male ARMS character in Japan by far.

Btw, Smash fandom ignoring how beloved Ninjara is among the ARMS community is a bias by itself (due to the stupid "ARMS fans only like female characters characters" perception) and is why so many people were blindsided about him being considered.

I thought the ludicrous character list spoke for the fact I was saying that rule in jest, but yes, I understand there were other factors behind Greninja and Ninjara lol

The Sakurai Ninja rule is still sadly better than many other ones I've heard at least.

 

[N3ON]

what about companies that already have a rep? can we expect someone like say steve? it seems that microsoft has a good relation with nintendo. and does cuphead count?

Can't count out more characters from existing companies.

Cuphead isn't Microsoft though. MS owns the rights to the game, but Studio MDHR owns the actual IP.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

So I decided to download Smash Roster Maker, and after some tinkering around, I made this little ditty, including both my Fighters Pass 2 predictions, as well my predictions for a potential Fighters Pass 3...

And now for details about my Fighters Pass 3 predictions...

Spoiler: Fighters Pass 3 predictions

• Before anyone says it... yes, I do think Fighters Pass 3 is possible... not guaranteed by any means, but I think that if the right pieces fall into place (Fighters Pass 2 selling well, Nintendo wanting to promote certain titles, and the developers being up for adding more characters), I think it's possible we'll get a Fighters Pass 3.
• If Fighters Pass 3 does happen... I also think it will be when development on Ultimate starts to really wind down, meaning we'll be getting less overall content from it than the previous Passes, and most of it being smaller stuff that wouldn't cost too much to license or include. To be specific, I think Fighters Pass 3 would give us the following...
  • Four characters total, filling in the four character slots leftover after Fighters Pass 2's characters. Not all of them coming with stages. All include music and spirits, though generally less than previous characters
  • Two first-party characters from series already well-represented in Smash (these two would not come with stages)
  • One first-party character from a series currently without playable representation in Smash (comes with a stage)
  • One third-party character from a series and company currently without playable representation in Smash (comes with a stage)
• As for the specific characters in that roster up there...
  • Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee - Two first-party fan-favorites and easy crowd-pleasers, who I could see getting in through a smaller Pass without having to bring a stage (and even if they do have to bring a stage, there's still plenty of options for more Kirby and DK stages).
  • Officer Howard - If ARMS can get a promotional character almost three years after it came out, I can see Astral Chain getting the same treatment. By the time a hypothetical Fighters Pass 3 starts coming out, it will have been long enough that the DLC Spirits won't be a hard deconfirmation anymore (it helps that Min Min's Spirit Board shows that pre-existing Spirits can be recycled).
  • Sol Badguy - If Fighters Pass 3 gets one third-party character (which I think it will), it'll most likely be a character from a lower profile series that is unexpected, likely won't cost as much as the "big hitters", and will probably end up being the obligatory "disappointing last character"... though I put that in quotes because I personally still think Guilty Gear and Sol would still be exciting additions to Smash Ultimate.

 

[Will]

I don't know why everyone's suddenly jumping on the Kiryu train the past few weeks but I'm all for it.