Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Dalek_Kolt]

Can't say I'm too torn up, AAI1 was great but AAI2 and DD had problems and SoJ really dropped the ball in most departments.

I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone prefer AAI1 over AAI2.
I massively disagree with said opinion but I'm still actually kind of impressed.

 

[Shroob]

I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone prefer AAI1 over AAI2.
I massively disagree with said opinion but I'm still actually kind of impressed.

I never got to play AAI2 because "Lol not localized"

But I enjoyed 1....... until that ending.


Hoo god that ending was bad. It was soo ****ing convoluted and dumb.

 

[Lionfranky]

If Microsoft starts getting actual costumes, Master Chief, Steve, and a Battletoad(I'd say Fulgore, but I doubt it) could all be plausible options for a Deluxe costume.

I just can't see this happening. Why go all the way to acquire permission only to put Chief as costume? He is either playable character or not at all.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I never got to play AAI2 because "Lol not localized"

But I enjoyed 1....... until that ending.


Hoo god that ending was bad. It was soo ****ing convoluted and dumb.

There might have been some issues with AAI2, but off the top of my head I can't think of a single bad case in it. Maybe the second case drags a bit, but there's nothing on the level of Turnabout Big Top.

Plus it has one of my favorite final bosses in the series. They're perfectly balanced between having a tragic and sympathetic backstory and being totally, unrepentantly evil, so while they're pitiful, you also know they're beyond salvation and need to go down.

 

[Hinata]

I never got to play AAI2 because "Lol not localized"

But I enjoyed 1....... until that ending.


Hoo god that ending was bad. It was soo ****ing convoluted and dumb.

How to anger anyone who has played AAI1 in just two words:

Diplomatic immunity.

 

[Shroob]

How to anger anyone who has played AAI1 in just two words:

Diplomatic immunity.

Thin ice

 

[osby]

I just can't see this happening. Why go all the way to acquire permission only to put Chief as costume? He is either playable character or not at all.

To play the devil's advocate, acquiring a character's likeness for a Mii costume is presumably much less expensive than the content a fully playable character comes with and doesn't require lengthy negotiations about how that fighter should be portrayed. That's how we were able to get Vault Boy Mii costume even though a Fallout character in Smash probably wasn't a feasible addition.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I just can't see this happening. Why go all the way to acquire permission only to put Chief as costume? He is either playable character or not at all.

Microsoft getting another character and then getting a costume of a gaming icon is extremely logical for Nintendo and Sakurai to do. They do this all the time anyway. And it doesn't make it hard for Master Chief to even get in the next game.

Frankly, "character or nothing" is a mindset that always felt ridiculous to me. There is nothing wrong with a costume and it's still a huge thing for a character to get if being playable simply wasn't on the table. You're still getting a pretty big fanservice nod to Halo that way, and honestly, he'd make an excellent Deluxe costume in that case cause it also gets us some awesome Halo music. So basically everybody gets a pretty cool thing in the end.

I'm also disappointed many AT's still didn't get a costume yet. Especially if they aren't going to be playable. Bomberman would work best as Deluxe as not all characters can pull off a regular costume super well, and that's one example. It doesn't help a lot of costumes look kind of bleh, where others cover the body fairly well(like Black Knight).

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

View attachment 278024

Thin ice

There's a fun bit in the first case of AAI2 where a witness tries pulling the extraterritorial rights card and Edgeworth immediately shoots him down.

 

[Lionfranky]

To play the devil's advocate, acquiring a character's likeness for a Mii costume is presumably much less expensive than the content a fully playable character comes with and doesn't require lengthy negotiations about how that fighter should be portrayed. That's how we were able to get Vault Boy Mii costume even though a Fallout character in Smash probably wasn't a feasible addition.

I don't think MS would stoop that low. They coooperated with Nintendo all the way to get Banjo playable. Yet, they won't get their bigger boy because it's less hassle? Why would MS do that? Nintendo and Sakurai went harder than that. Ex) saying working with MS was easier than SE.

Microsoft getting another character and then getting a costume of a gaming icon is extremely logical for Nintendo and Sakurai to do. They do this all the time anyway. And it doesn't make it hard for Master Chief to even get in the next game.

Frankly, "character or nothing" is a mindset that always felt ridiculous to me. There is nothing wrong with a costume and it's still a huge thing for a character to get if being playable simply wasn't on the table. You're still getting a pretty big fanservice nod to Halo that way, and honestly, he'd make an excellent Deluxe costume in that case cause it also gets us some awesome Halo music. So basically everybody gets a pretty cool thing in the end.

I'm also disappointed many AT's still didn't get a costume yet. Especially if they aren't going to be playable. Bomberman would work best as Deluxe as not all characters can pull off a regular costume super well, and that's one example. It doesn't help a lot of costumes look kind of bleh, where others cover the body fairly well(like Black Knight).

It's wrong because we are talking about character and franchise that are league above what you assume for costume.

 

[osby]

I don't think MS would stoop that low.

It's not stooping low. Capcom got playable Mega Man and Street Fighters characters in Smash but Resident Evil and Monster Hunter characters are in NPC roles. It's just giving content to series that won't have a fighter.

They coooperated with Nintendo all the way to get Banjo playable. Yet, they won't get their bigger boy because it's less hassle?

I didn't say that. If Master Chief isn't among the remaining 5 characters that Nintendo chose, they can still want to have Halo content in Smash. Hence, a Mii costume.

Why would MS do that?

Why wouldn't they? It's free money for the likeness of a character. It's not too different from Minecraft having skins of Mario characters.

Nintendo and Sakurai went harder than that. Ex) saying working with MS was easier than SE.

I never saw Sakurai or Nintendo comparing those two companies. Do you have a source for that?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd say Osby has this one. But yeah, one other thing to note is that Xbox is having trouble selling well in Japan. They'll take any worldwide exposure they can get, really. Is it even surprising that Sakurai outright advertised the Xbox in the Banjo presentation? Nope. Microsoft was using Banjo as a franchise right now, so getting that advertising is something important. In fact, Sakurai has advertised more than one 3rd party series too, and that's cause companies want their content promoted. This is why companies even agree to Mii costumes, because it makes them money. They're a business first. The most important thing for them is just the Mii costume design, to make sure it fits what they prefer. It doesn't matter that they're a Mii or full character in general either. Cause they make money for using the assets either way. They've been stingy about costumes in most cases(Capcom USA and Capcom Co LTD. were the only two companies to... actually allow some really damn good costumes in 4, and you can add SNK to the list. Sega is on/off about it, though it's possible it was more Atlus that had control of the costume choices. We don't know the specifics on that one. Bayonetta's were a lot better than Sonic's too, but was Platinum Games involved with the costume creation? Who knows).

Companies can be stingy, obviously. It makes sense they want their character represented with a good design and all. It's also just a usual thing some are just glad to have content in the game. They're satisfied not having a full character cause they still get some cool representation.

Just remember that Sakurai nor other companies see Mii Costumes as some insult. They just see it as a business venture.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Frankly, "character or nothing" is a mindset that always felt ridiculous to me.

You must think millions have ridiculous thoughts then. And yes, I know those millions aren't directly saying "**** ATs/spirits/etc, all my homies hate non-fighter representation", but they're still mainly getting into games that got Smash fighters instead of ones that got ATs/spirits and consuming content primarily focused on the fighters, and then there's those who play without items therefore making fighter representation even more important.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You must think millions have ridiculous thoughts then. And yes, I know those millions aren't directly saying "**** ATs/spirits/etc, all my homies hate non-fighter representation", but they're still mainly getting into games that got Smash fighters instead of ones that got ATs/spirits and consuming content primarily focused on the fighters, and then there's those who play without items therefore making fighter representation even more important.

No, the mindset I'm talking about is treating them as an insult. That's not the same as preferring a bigger role for your favorite character.

So I'm not remotely talking about the mindset you're speaking on. When you're treating fanservice as an insult, then it's actually ridiculous. When you simply aren't happy with something else, it's actually reasonable. Nobody should be happy with something if it's not what they want.

They're completely different mindsets. Reality is, not all will get some big role as another. That's just life. That's why they're still there so fans actually get cool content. Cause otherwise the game would frankly suck if it had only playable characters, no costume references at all, stages(but absolutely zero bosses or cameos. Yes, that means no Master Hand, since you couldn't play as him), no items, no trophies/stickers/spirits. Literally zero NPC's. That doesn't sound like a good game at all. It just doesn't work. Smash 64 did only decently and there's a reason Melee did better. Because of a massive amount of content, along with being a massive increase in gameplay speed as well.

Content massively matters, and those NPC roles are what gives the game a ton of life. In fact, how many video games series beyond sometimes puzzle/point-and-click/card games don't have NPC's? That's kind of the point. They're an important parts to games a whole, and increase just how cool a game is. Being playable is not the only important thing. Otherwise, as I pointed out above, Smash would have died off really fast if it had practically nothing of note beyond the super bare minimum. Bare minimum at least has some NPC bosses, after all. Like your general fighting game, and most games with some genre exceptions.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Cause otherwise the game would frankly suck if it had only playable characters, no costume references at all, stages(but absolutely zero bosses or cameos. Yes, that means no Master Hand, since you couldn't play as him), no items, no trophies/stickers/spirits. Literally zero NPC's. That doesn't sound like a good game at all. It just doesn't work. Smash 64 did only decently and there's a reason Melee did better. Because of a massive amount of content, along with being a massive increase in gameplay speed as well.

Just because I think some people are unaware that fighter representation is more attractive, and thus wanting things to be promoted to playable should be less condemned, doesn't mean I don't want non-fighter representation to be completely removed. Just treated like side content, not main content.

 

[Mamboo07]

View attachment 278024

Thin ice

Is that really Goofy?

 

[osby]

You must think millions have ridiculous thoughts then. And yes, I know those millions aren't directly saying "**** ATs/spirits/etc, all my homies hate non-fighter representation", but they're still mainly getting into games that got Smash fighters instead of ones that got ATs/spirits and consuming content primarily focused on the fighters,

I think you're missing the point of the post you're replying to.

Nobody said you should like NPC roles. We're just pointing out that erasing them won't have any benefits to anyone. Just let fans enjoy the side content even if you don't care about it.

and then there's those who play without items therefore making fighter representation even more important.

This reminds me how people who never played Smash for 3DS complained about too many Kid Icarus enemies in the Smash Run.

Why would you want something gone if you're not even going to see it while playing the game?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just because I think some people are unaware that fighter representation is more attractive, and thus wanting things to be promoted to playable should be less condemned, doesn't mean I don't want non-fighter representation to be completely removed. Just treated like side content, not main content.

And then one realizes a lot of bosses can be main content too, which means that alone doesn't make sense overall. Which is why it's not a popular view. People don't want to try and put content into arbitrary categories so it's easier to demean content. Well, those that don't want to gatekeep anyway. Since that's pretty much all it leads to.

There's really no point in these arbitrary things. It adds nothing useful. Yes, characters won't be what you like the most. The game is character driven, but it's character driven because it's about showing off notable characters, not just as playable.

Another way to put it is that treating every role as small because they're not playable only leads to toxic "my character is better than yours" arguments. Why on earth would that be a good idea? That's why it's just better to not worry about the role in that way and just enjoy the content that's there, while understanding content is going to not be the same thing for every character in existence. And that's okay. Being disappointed is logical, of course. Being salty might be a bit much at times(but if you're taking it too far by insulting people, creating drama, etc.). This is also why the "deserving" argument gets really bad too. It's completely subjective, and creates unnecessary turmoil for similar reasons as the above (My character is better than yours).

 

[DarthEnderX]

But that's Beyblade

...you are correct. I was thinking of the wrong B-named thing where kids play a stupid game.

 

[Shroob]

...you are correct. I was thinking of the wrong B-named this where kids play a stupid game.

You'd be surprised and disappointed that Beyblade competitive is still a thing(somehow).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...you are correct. I was thinking of the wrong B-named this where kids play a stupid game.

B-Daman?

Cause it's not just Bakugan where this happens. >.>

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is that really Goofy?

No. It's just a little silly.

 

[MarioDDR755]

This remind me how Rathalos made it in as an AT/Boss, thus representing Monster Hunter, but since it's not a character it feels disappointing somehow.

It's nice that it's in at all, anyway. ATs, Mii costumes, and Spirits may not be as good as fighters but they still made it in.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This remind me how Rathalos made it in as an AT/Boss, thus representing Monster Hunter, but since it's not a character it feels disappointing somehow.

I mean, Rathalos can't be a character anyway.

It's smallest size is around the same as Ridley's biggest size.

Gotta thank NES Metroid for giving us our boy.

 

[Guynamednelson]

ATs, Mii costumes, and Spirits may not be as good as fighters but they still made it in.

Doesn't mean you can't want more. Should fans of most of the base game newcomers+Min Min have given up because they already had some representation?

 

[N3ON]

...you are correct. I was thinking of the wrong B-named thing where kids play a stupid game.

Yeahhhhh, as was I. When I called it a glorified game of marbles I was indeed thinking of B-Daman, which I only now realize thanks to these posts.

It just reinforces how I have no ****ing clue what Bakugan is.


Why can't we all just play with Pogs, I know what those are.

I mean, Rathalos can't be a character anyway.

It's smallest size is around the same as Ridley's biggest size.
Gotta thank NES Metroid for giving us our boy.

You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger smaller, darling.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger smaller, darling.

Is that a baby Rathalos?

 

[N3ON]

Is that a baby Rathalos?

I think so, but I've never played Monster Hunter Stories. I just know that a character who rides a dragon would be neat in Smash.

Plus it's another JRPG anime sword-wielder.

 

[MarioDDR755]

I mean, Rathalos can't be a character anyway.

It's smallest size is around the same as Ridley's biggest size.

Gotta thank NES Metroid for giving us our boy.

Yea, I realized it sounded like I was saying Rathalos could have been a fighter, but I meant to say that MH could have had a rep in the form of a generic monster hunter. Which I still think could work!

Doesn't mean you can't want more. Should fans of most of the base game newcomers+Min Min have given up because they already had some representation?

It's definitely ok to want more. Even Fire Emblem fans can hope for Lyn despite having so many fighters already.

But inevitably most characters won't make it in, so it's good to remember that just because they're not a fighter (which is the best case scenario) doesn't mean that the other forms of representation are totally without worth.

 

[ZelDan]

It seems I definitely didn't miss anything from the Treehouse livestream that went on during my work hours.

It is weird that Nintendo tried to hype up the Bakugan game or gave it a special spot at the end of the stream. Only theory I can think up is that maybe they put Bakugan in that Treehouse session to make Paper Mario: Origami King look better by comparison.

 

[Gentlepanda]

SMT Fans
Bayonetta 3 Fans
Metroid Prime 4 Fans


All united under the banner of "This ****'s never coming out, is it?"

smt, bayo 3 and mp4 fans be like "please god let it come out soon"
bravely fans after playing the clunky BD2 demo be like "please god let it be delayed"

 

[SKX31]

It seems I definitely didn't miss anything from the Treehouse livestream that went on during my work hours.

It is weird that Nintendo tried to hype up the Bakugan game or gave it a special spot at the end of the stream. Only theory I can think up is that maybe they put Bakugan in that Treehouse session to make Paper Mario: Origami King look better by comparison.

I should point out that a certain someone helped get the ball rolling:

My past and my present collide with #Bakugan on #NintendoSwitch. Congrats to @SpinMaster, @wbgames and @WayForward! Can't wait to try it out! get the details on #NintendoTreeHouse

— Reggie Fils-Aimé (@Reggie) July 10, 2020

Now not including him in the stream (IIRC) was a massive missed opportunity, even if the game is seen as massively lacklustre.

(Yes, Reggie's a member of Spin Master's Board of Directors nowadays.)

For anyone who wasn't aware:

Look likes Warframe is going to be the first official Tencent content in Smash.

If at first you don't succeed*... throw more money at it?

This isn't 100 % done yet obviously, but still.

*(iDreamSky, which is Tencent-backed, was in talks of buying Leyou. But that stalled and now Sony consider a bid on Leyou. Making it sound like Tencent just decided "Screw it, we'll do this ourselves!")

 

[Dinoman96]

In regards to Master Chief, I seriously cannot see Nintendo going up to one of their competitiors and asking for their biggest character, but only as a mere Mii outfit or whatever.

There is like, a massive difference between Halo and the likes of Asssassin's Creed or Fallout.

 

[Eldrake]

View attachment 277999
Maybe one day, maybe one day.
I'd also like to take this opportunity to shill my new Jonesy thread. Please come and check it out ok bye.

Last time I saw an edit like this, it was with Star Fox and Metroid.

 

[PSIGuy]

Octopath Traveller Spirits out of nowhere for the 2nd anniversary. Huh.

EDIT: Apparently this is days old! Never mind. Still didn't see a Twitter post about it so I was a bit confused when they showed up in-game/

 

[PLANTMAN]

In regards to Master Chief, I seriously cannot see Nintendo going up to one of their competitiors and asking for their biggest character, but only as a mere Mii outfit or whatever.

There is like, a massive difference between Halo and the likes of Asssassin's Creed or Fallout.

It’s Nintendo, if they want crazy(asking for master chief fighter) then they’ll go crazy
& they’re basically asking for another rep just like so there should be no problem

 

[SpectreJordan]

The only way I see a Master Chief Mii costume happening is if we get Steve instead of Chief.

He’s too big just to be a random Mii costume that comes with someone unrelated to Microsoft.

 

[Deleted member]

In regards to Master Chief, I seriously cannot see Nintendo going up to one of their competitiors and asking for their biggest character, but only as a mere Mii outfit or whatever.

There is like, a massive difference between Halo and the likes of Asssassin's Creed or Fallout.

Well I can actually envision a Master Chief Mii Costume being possible. It doesn't matter if a series is "beneath" such a thing, and the Spartan armor would be an ideal fit for a Mii Costume if Master Chief wasn't planned to be a fighter more than other characters like Steve per say.

I don't really see a Halo spirit event happening thoe, so I'd be incredibly surprised if it happens.

 

[RileyXY1]

The only character I cannot see being a Mii Fighter costume is Sora, and you know why.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The only character I cannot see being a Mii Fighter costume is Sora, and you know why.

Have to agree. Fans would lose their **** and you really think Nintendo would go out of their way to make negotiations with Disney just for a Mii costume?