Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Swamp Sensei]

I think people are making the whole first and third party thing into an "us vs them" situation when it really doesn't need to be.

 

[Opossum]

I would absolutely be down for a Sony representative, I'm sure it's been mentioned many times before, But it will likely come down to these top 3 picks.

- Ratchet & Clank
- Nathan Drake
- Kratos

Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale gives us a pretty good idea on how they would handle and fight, Ratchet & Clank would probably be my personal choice as he would probably fit in the best and be the easiest to implement.

Of course if Sony doesn't want to play ball, (Which will very much likely be the case),Then the most likeliest and closest choice that best represents their Playstation brand, But is owned by another 3rd party and is considered to be "Fair Game" is...

View attachment 277066

Sony honestly has so many great choices. In addition to the three you mentioned, Sackboy, Kat, and Sly Cooper would also be amazing.

 

[Will]

I think people are making the whole first and third party thing into an "us vs them" situation when it really doesn't need to be.

People be having flame wars over first parties and third parties and at the end of the day it's just Leif from Fire Emblem: Thracia 776.

 

[cj.]

- Nathan Drake

Yes please i want to hear "Nate's theme" in Smash

 

[Cosmic77]

I think people are making the whole first and third party thing into an "us vs them" situation when it really doesn't need to be.

It shouldn't be, but the sad truth is that people will gladly ignore, underrate, or find problems with characters they don't like/want if it makes them feel like their character choices are more likely.

This applies to pretty much everything, not just when we're discussing first and third-parties. Spirits and ATs were mostly ignored until just recently, and some characters are less likely to get any traction in a discussion if they're from the same franchise or are owned by the same company as a more popular character.

 

[Perkilator]

People be having flame wars over first parties and third parties and at the end of the day it's just Leif from Fire Emblem: Thracia 776.

That reminds me; what if Leif was Roy’s Echo instead of ?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That reminds me; what if Leif was Roy’s Echo instead of ?

It'd be an odd fit for Leif.

His personality and sword style is very different from Chrom and Smash Roy.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

We already have the Sony reps

Snake and Cloud

 

[Perkilator]

We already have the Sony reps

Snake and Cloud

And Joker! Don’t forget Joker!

 

[SneakyLink]

And Joker! Don’t forget Joker!

Basically all the third party characters can be considered Sony reps as they all had one major game on the system. Neat.

...except unless counting Minecraft as a “appearance”

 

[N3ON]

i'd just like bomberman

 

[Guynamednelson]

Gordon as a fighter would kick ass, but I could also see him as a Mii Costume for either Swordfighter (with the crowbar) or the Gunner (Gravity Gun).

The Gauss Gun from HL1 would work better.

 

[I.D.]

I also want to take a moment to point out that, "All these Volume 1 character were picks nobody predicted so that means Volume 2 is unpredictable" isn't true in the slightest.

Dragon Quest is a major JRPG, and Japan TOTALLY wanted that in Smash anyway. It was certainly forced by the Verg leaks, but folks in the West didn't even think about it despite its size. Terry was definitely suggested, but shot down quite a bit. I was someone who **** him down. Banjo was very much discussed pre-reveal. Byleth was also discussed and speculated pre-reveal.

To be fair, if you are going to equate "predicted" with "has been discussed at some point" I can tell you right now we have predicted the entirety of the second pass and we just haven't realized yet.

 

[cmbsfm]

The Smash fanbase is a lot more welcoming to third-party discussion than they are with first-parties, and that's not very hard to see.

It’s quite a different feel than it was in Smash 4 then. Back then people would gatekeep third parties, arguing if they weren’t “Nintendo enough” or “too mature” they shouldn’t be in the game. Even Snake got some push back despite being a veteran. Now you’ve got characters like Dante and Master Chief at forefront of speculation. Crazy.

 

[Speed Weed]

We already have the Sony reps

Snake and Cloud

if these count as sony reps, then ya better get ready for the ultimate sony rep

Spoiler

 

[SNEKeater]

And Joker! Don’t forget Joker!

I don't think Joker really fits there, I mean, Persona is obviously more associated with the Playstation brand, but Joker himself is another thing. Despite his game being a PS exclusive so far, it's not like his game was super popular to the level of Metal Gear Solid or FF PS One games. Persona 5 is an incredible game I love, but if anything I believe Joker is like, 4, 5? levels below of Snake and Cloud if we're talking about Playstation characters (despite not being owned by Sony).

Lara Croft, Crash, Heihachi/Jin/Kazuya, Dante, etc. are a lot more synonym with Playstation if we talk about 3rd party characters than Joker.

What's everyone's opinion on Valve representation? Even as a Mii costume or Spirit or even a full fighter. Whatever you think works.

Gordon Freeman or Scout/Heavy could suffice for any of those roles. Unsure about Portal, though it would make for a good Gunner costume.

Honestly, I'm not very into Valve games, not because I don't like them but because I've barely played their games. With that said, I think Valve definitely could get some representation. I don't know if Gordon, Chell or any other Valve character could work as a costume, I guess so? But I believe that a playable character could be really interesting.
Also, I think a Valve challenger pack could potentially repeat Terry's. I don't see Valve getting a 2nd character if they ever get one, and I don't know, I feel that whoever they pick as a playable character could come with some content of their other series.

Sony has been added to the list of possible buyers for Leyou.

iDreamsky and Century Huatong being the other two.

Leyou is the holding company for Digital Extremes (Warframe), Splash Damage and has a 20% stake in Certain Affinity. https://t.co/xCnwM5FDw2

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) July 2, 2020

The other two Zhuge mentions are Chinese web game companies: iDreamSky is backed by Tencent, while Huatong - originally an auto part company - are heavily connected with Funplus (Funplus' LoL team are the reigning World Champions).

If Sony buys Leyou, Sony would be kinda represented* via the Warframe Spirit. Albeit this would be completely retroactively.

*(Edited, regretted the original wording)

I saw this before and read somewhere that Leyou has a good % of stocks of SNK. I don't know if that's true, tho.

 

[Will]

i'd just like bomberman

i too would like a konami character



too bad he's anime guess my next pick would be a contra character, or raiden if we're adding to preexisting franchises

 

[Cosmic77]

To be fair, if you are going to equate "predicted" with "has been discussed at some point" I can tell you right now we have predicted the entirety of the second pass and we just haven't realized yet.

Joker and Terry were not predicted by the fanbase in the slightest. Even if we ignore Verge and go back to early 2018, most people were predicting Slime, not Luminary or any of the other Heroes. A lot of people might have predicted Byleth if we were discussing the second pass, but the general consensus was that the first pass was purely third-party.

That leaves us with only Banjo, a character who was predicted frequently moreso because people really wanted him. Saying that the Smash fanbase was close to predicting the entire first pass is generous at best and completely ridiculous at worst.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean if we're going with another Konami character.

There's only one good answer.

EDIT: Images refuse to work but its Pyramid Head.

 

[Schnee117]

I mean if we're going with another Konami character.

There's only one good answer.

A broken image is a pretty good rep for modern konami

 

[Opossum]

Joker and Terry were not predicted by the fanbase in the slightest. Even if we ignore Verge and go back to early 2018, most people were predicting Slime, not Luminary or any of the other Heroes. A lot of people might have predicted Byleth if we were discussing the second pass, but the general consensus was that the first pass was purely third-party.

That leaves us with only Banjo, a character who was predicted frequently moreso because people really wanted him. Saying that the Smash fanbase was close to predicting the entire first pass is generous at best and completely ridiculous at worst.

Quite a lot of people still thought "if we get a first party in pass one, it'll be from Three Houses."

I would know. I'm an Edelgard supporter. It got brought up a lot; Byleth was not nearly as much of a blindsided moment as you're making them out to be.

 

[Will]

I mean if we're going with another Konami character.

There's only one good answer.

Yes, broken, just like Konami the company itself. Such a brave, meta pick.

edit: ****ing ninja'd

 

[Swamp Sensei]

A broken image is a pretty good rep for modern konami

EDIT: Images refuse to work but its Pyramid Head.

This be some spooky Silent Hill ****.

 

[Cosmic77]

Quite a lot of people still thought "if we get a first party in pass one, it'll be from Three Houses."

I would know. I'm an Edelgard supporter. It got brought up a lot; Byleth was not nearly as much of a blindsided moment as you're making them out to be.

After four third-parties, not many people were expecting the pass to end with a first-party. People thinking a 3H character was pretty likely if we got a first-party isn't saying much when pretty much everyone was placing bets on who would be the Capcom or Namco rep.

 

[Opossum]

My preferred Konami character addition is Frogger.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

We're talking about Konami characters?

I pick Cormano as I will do from now on! James Sunderland being my second pick,

 

[ZelDan]

Only Konami franchise I want added in Smash with a playable character is Contra. there'd ideally be some Contra Hard Corps music too.

 

[SNEKeater]

People was expecting and predicting Byleth or any Three Houses rep, but what surprised us is that he was part of the first pass, and this is because 2 reasons:
1. we got 4 third party, most of us assumed FP5 would be third party as well, myself included, not gonna lie.
2. timing, people wasn't expecting him for pass 1 because Three Houses came out like half and a year after Nintendo announced the fighter pass. No one thought about the possibility of "saving" a slot for Three Houses or that Sakurai received an early copy of the game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh snap here we go

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[SneakyLink]

Konami characters?

Give me Twinbee! As that’s really the only Konami game I know beyond Trick Trap 1771.

 

[SKX31]

Konami you say? Moai Head from Gradius is my dark horse pick, and DreamMix TV World Fighters convinced me that it was a superb addition to that game's roster.

Sony honestly has so many great choices. In addition to the three you mentioned, Sackboy, Kat, and Sly Cooper would also be amazing.

Kat would legitimately be amazing (and not just because she was broken-tier in PSASBR). Her gravity-based moveset would be justification enough IMHO. Shoutout to KatKit and het Kat moveset post.

So this is how we get Kratos in Smash - because of Sony and Nintendo's current dealings with Tencent, they get a deal by proxy.

Jokes aside, it's certainly an interesting development. I wonder if this will affect future Switch dealings for companies like DE?

I saw this before and read somewhere that Leyou has a good % of stocks of SNK. I don't know if that's true, tho.

You know, SNEK, that's a crazy story in its own right. I didn't delve into it in the previous post because I wasn't sure how to word it correctly. And because several sources reporting on the Leyou purchase (which stalled in April due to the pandemic) have not specified SNK (Zhuge have not mentioned SNK IIRC), while others have (Gamesindustry have). 7NATOR did ask about this last week IIRC, so reminding him.

In 2015, investment bank Oriental Securities and mobile game dev 37 Games invested into Leyou's subsidiary in order to buy 80 % of SNK from Eikichi Kawasaki. Details on who of the three companies own the biggest share of SNK are really scarce and have conflicting accounts. I personally believe Oriental is the majority holder because it was one of their CEOs who said they wanted to turn SNK into the "Marvel of video games". Leyou's and SNK's relationship have not much concrete to them beyond the fact that Leyou has published PS4 SamSho worldwide via Leyou's publishing arm Athlon AFAIK.

Still, the purchase was made through Leyou's subsidiary, and that's the interesting part. While it is certainly possible that SNK isn't in the discussion due to 37 / Oriental, there's also the possible scenario that those two would allow the buying company into the room...

So if Sony does buy Leyou, there's the possibility that becomes a (part) Sony representative. Who was released right next to the first Microsoft representative.

Wut.

 

[ZenythSmash]

I honestly thought it was broken at first. Manage to land a successful skewer despite being so close to the opponent.
probably been just bad placement

Hang on hang on, it's really legit a thing! Cutie Gwen

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS BUFF???

GLITCH OR ??? pic.twitter.com/zefRQd4e5E

— hungrybox (@LiquidHbox) June 30, 2020

thought i was the only one noticing this tbh. good lord

 

[SneakyLink]

Oh snap here we go

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Probably has to do with Nintendo making a video with Nairo in it private due to events that occurred.

Either that or they’re secretly preparing for the December Direct.

 

[Will]

Konami characters?

Give me Twinbee! As that’s really the only Konami game I know beyond Trick Trap 1771.

We have yet to have any arcade shoote/bullet hell genre character.]

Obviously Reimu is top dollar but I'd laugh my ass off seeing Gradius or Twinbee's tiny little ship zooming around.

 

[SNEKeater]

You know, SNEK, that's a crazy story in its own right. I didn't delve into it in the previous post because I wasn't sure how to word it correctly. And because several sources reporting on the Leyou purchase (which stalled in April due to the pandemic) have not specified SNK (Zhuge have not mentioned SNK IIRC), while others have (Gamesindustry have). 7NATOR did ask about this last week IIRC, so reminding him.

In 2015, investment bank Oriental Securities and mobile game dev 37 Games invested into Leyou's subsidiary in order to buy 80 % of SNK from Eikichi Kawasaki. Details on who of the three companies own the biggest share of SNK are really scarce and have conflicting accounts. I personally believe Oriental is the majority holder because it was one of their CEOs who said they wanted to turn SNK into the "Marvel of video games". Leyou's and SNK's relationship have not much concrete to them beyond the fact that Leyou has published PS4 SamSho worldwide via Leyou's publishing arm Athlon AFAIK.

Still, the purchase was made through Leyou's subsidiary, and that's the interesting part. While it is certainly possible that SNK isn't in the discussion due to 37 / Oriental, there's also the possible scenario that those two would allow the buying company into the room...

So if Sony does buy Leyou, there's the possibility that becomes a (part) Sony representative. Who was released right next to the first Microsoft representative.

Wut.

Wow. That's crazy.

I'm not really well versed with these things, so that's why I asked you before. Honestly it's a bit confusing all the things about who 'owns' SNK. It's like every time I read about SNK a different company owns them, lol.
I don't know how this will affect SNK, if this could really affect them. But the chance of Terry technically being the first Sony rep sounds funny and super random at the same time.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Megadoomer]

We're talking about Konami characters?

I pick Cormano as I will do from now on! James Sunderland being my second pick,

Cormano was easily the best character in Sunset Riders in my opinion. So glad that they added that game to the Switch.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hang on hang on, it's really legit a thing! Cutie Gwen

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS BUFF???

GLITCH OR ??? pic.twitter.com/zefRQd4e5E

— hungrybox (@LiquidHbox) June 30, 2020

thought i was the only one noticing this tbh. good lord

As a Ridley player, I'm rolling my eyes.

This has been a thing since launch. It only works at 0 and only works if the opponent literally does nothing or a neutral air dodge.

DI at all, or air dodging in anything direction ruins the "combo."

 

[Deleted member]

Oh snap here we go

[twitter post]

Probably has to do with Nintendo making a video with Nairo in it private due to events that occurred.

Either that or they’re secretly preparing for the December Direct.

Yeah that seems to be the most likely scenario.

Then again, it's also possible that this person is aware of the things that happened in the competitive scene and the supposed edits may not be directly related to privating the Nairo video. For all we know, Nintendo are scared ****less of the Devolver Direct and are now making a counterplay to that by making their own Direct, but that's just me being a conspiracy theorist.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So if Sony does buy Leyou, there's the possibility that becomes a (part) Sony representative. Who was released right next to the first Microsoft representative.

Wut.

So all in all, we'd have not just one hindsight Sony franchise repped, but several? We have a good 5 or 6 francises from SNK, plus Warframe if the buyout you were talking about happens.

Crazy times.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

People are talking about Konami characters and I see no mention of Dance dance revolution rep.

Yes, I really need a Rhythm game rep.