Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[osby]

The fact that Sakurai can reject their choices does seem to imply that there is some leeway at least, so if he thought a new Pokémon didn't have what he wanted from a DLC character, he could reject it in favor of a different character.

Sure, but that's a big "if", considering he has no problem adding Pokemon just from their concept art or making "promotion picks" for DLC. And Sakurai can reject any character so Pokemon really isn't in a unique situation.

 

[Koopaul]

Secondary character who was the titular star of a mainline game in her own series. Seems plenty big to me.

Oh you know what I mean. Dixie is not the main face of the DK series. Which is no problem for a base game character but I'm not so sure for DLC. I think DLC is either going to be for Nintendo Switch games on the market or 3rd party characters. I could be wrong but that's what I have a feeling it will be. I suppose if they did a whole Tropical Freeze package, then maybe Dixie is on the table. Bandana Dee is out of luck. In the Kirby Star Allies he doesn't even play a significant role in the plot. But maybe there's a new Kirby game around the corner and Dee will play a major role in it?

 

[Speed Weed]

Oooo, are we having the dead Nintendo franchises that would benefit from a Smash character? In that case, I think I have to nominate the King of that Genre:

Between Suda51 and Hideki Kamiya both expressing interest in reviving the franchise, Nintendo Land basing a mini-game off it, and the game finally receiving an English release on the 3DS, I'm incredibly surprised Nintendo is still content to leave it in the dark. Plus, the timing feels almost perfect with games based on Feudal Japan like Sekiro and Ghost of Tsushima being in vogue. Zelda is also re-exploring it's NES roots through BotW, so that's a great excuse to revisit Zelda 1's cousin. Give the series the first push it needs through upgrading Takamaru to a full playable character and you've got some strong potential for a success on your hands.

good sir this makes you incredibly based

 

[cosmicB]

If you were Sakurai, and your mission was to make FP2 be a pass that adds popular and/or longstanding fighter requests amongst the fanbase, and the pass is an even 3-3 split, what two other first-party characters do you include alongside Min Min that has a similar if not broader mass appeal? Only stipulation is no characters that are already ATs (so no obvious Waluigi/Isaac picks), but anybody else, spirit or not, is fair game.

I'd go myself with Elma/Bandana Dee, as both characters are very popular amongst the general fanbase and are at this point notable admissions from the roster. Impa and Dixie would be next in line if not for their easy echo potential, and I love Toad but realistically could see those two before him given PP already being a Mario DLC character

Excite Bike and Sigurd. Yes, that's a 9th Fire Emblem character, but requested is requested (also the protagonist of Sakurai's favorte FE).

 

[Super Devon]

Is it me? or does it really feel like that each Pokemon rep they add is based the Pokemon featured of the movies and anime seasons?

It's obviously a coincidence, but I feel like it's worth mentioning.

 

[Shroob]

Is it me? or does it really feel like that each Pokemon rep they add is based the Pokemon featured of the movies and anime seasons?

It's obviously a coincidence, but I feel like it's worth mentioning.

This isn't coincidence at all


It's called marketing

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is it me? or does it really feel like that each Pokemon rep they add is based the Pokemon featured of the movies and anime seasons?

It's obviously a coincidence, but I feel like it's worth mentioning.

You've figured out something Sakurai has stated as a factor since Melee.

To answer your question though, yes, the anime has a big impact on Pokemon chosen. If you wanna get real technical, you can add Pikachu and Jigglypuff to that list and they were popular in the anime when included. Only Pichu and Pokemon Trainer weren't added due to the anime.

 

[Knight Dude]

Same here honestly. When it comes to new Pokémon in Smash, ever since Brawl, its just felt like 'oh, here's a marketing tool for the newest game'. Aside from Pokémon Trainer, we never get new Pokémon from older Generations like Gardevoir or Sceptile, just whatever the newest Pokémon Generation is..usually a Starter Evolution.


I've seen places reporting it as fact, like EventHubs.
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2018...asahiro-sakurai-no-ballot-or-fan-vote-coming/
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2019...ide-super-smash-bros-ultimates-fighters-pass/

The fact that Sakurai can reject their choices does seem to imply that there is some leeway at least, so if he thought a new Pokémon didn't have what he wanted from a DLC character, he could reject it in favor of a different character.

The thing for me is, Greninja and Incineroar are pretty dope for me. But I can't say a ton of Gen 8 pokemon grab my attention. Not that they are bad, just there's not enough for me to support adding them to Smash outside of expecting it. Of course, that could change based on how they play.

 

[Koopaul]

I'm sort of sick of the anthro Pokemon type of fighter. When are we going to get a cute small critter again? We haven't had one since Squirtle.

 

[Shroob]

I'm sort of sick of the anthro Pokemon type of fighter. When are we going to get a cute small critter again? We haven't had one since Squirtle.

When Antro Pokemon stop being the most marketable to a wide audience.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Considering Gen 8 is what, the 2nd best selling Switch game period, and the best selling Pokemon game of all time... yeah, if Nintendo's picking the DLC, no way they're ignoring that just because they already put one in the base.

Not that it really matters in relation to Smash, but Sw/Sh still need to almost double their currently reported sales in order to beat Red/Blue as the best selling Pokémon games (17m vs 31m), and that's without taking Green and Yellow into the equation (46m). They might beat Gold/Silver for 2nd best selling Pokémon games at 23m, but I doubt any Pokémon game will ever beat Red/Blue again, as big as Pokémon is now, it's likely never going to reach the same level as when it first broke out.

 

[Shroob]

Not that it really matters in relation to Smash, but Sw/Sh still need to almost double their currently reported sales in order to beat Red/Blue as the best selling Pokémon games (17m vs 31m), and that's without taking Green and Yellow into the equation (46m). They might beat Gold/Silver for 2nd best selling Pokémon games at 23m, but I doubt any Pokémon game will ever beat Red/Blue again, as big as Pokémon is now, it's likely never going to reach the same level as when it first broke out.

Fair enough, still, those numbers are staggering.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm sort of sick of the anthro Pokemon type of fighter. When are we going to get a cute small critter again? We haven't had one since Squirtle.

I remember back in the Brawl days.

People asked for no more cute Pokemon. We wanted badass final evolutions!

It's all one big circle.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

I'm sort of sick of the anthro Pokemon type of fighter. When are we going to get a cute small critter again? We haven't had one since Squirtle.

Until Machomp or hitmonchan hets in the game...nope.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Is it me? or does it really feel like that each Pokemon rep they add is based the Pokemon featured of the movies and anime seasons?

It's obviously a coincidence, but I feel like it's worth mentioning.

Man you have to feel a bit bad for Mew who stars in two of these and still didn't get picked. Mew was even in the top 20 requests post Smash 64 too!

 

[ZephyrZ]

I could legit see them saying 'no' to a new Gen 8 Pokémon simply due to some arbitrary reason like not charging enough for it, not wanting a new stage or spirits, or not wanting their character as 'mere DLC'.

I can imagine the conversation now.

Nintendo: Hey Urshifu seems pretty cool, can we add him?
TPC: lol no, we wouldn't want our beloved Urshifu to be reduced to mere DLC. That would be a blatant slander on its beloved (and marketable) name! How dare you suggest such a thing!

Seriously though, TPC has always seemed to play fairly nice with Smash. There's a ton of playable characters, an amiibo for each of them (including Squirtle/Ivysaur/PT all having individual amiibo), a bunch of spirits and songs already in the game and a ton of pokeballs. Smash is a cash cow and they know it. The only reason people push this "stingy TPC" narrative for Smash is because their beloved black Charizard isn't in the game. If a Gen 8 pokemon doesn't make it in, I seriously doubt it's because TPC said no to it.

 

[PacificFun]

It makes me pretty sad that so many people who say characters like Crash, Master Chief, Dante, Sora and even Gordon Freeman are the last big hype characters...

When Lara Croft is literally standing right there. ;-;

I don't understand why she's so unpopular in discussion. She's a gaming all-star.

 

[Mamboo07]

It makes me pretty sad that so many people who say characters like Crash, Master Chief, Dante, Sora and even Gordon Freeman are the last big hype characters...

When Lara Croft is literally standing right there. ;-;

I don't understand why she's so unpopular in discussion. She's a gaming all-star.

Properly because Smash fans think of her being boring or something like that.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It makes me pretty sad that so many people who say characters like Crash, Master Chief, Dante, Sora and even Gordon Freeman are the last big hype characters...

When Lara Croft is literally standing right there. ;-;

I don't understand why she's so unpopular in discussion. She's a gaming all-star.

A number of factors.

1. She's a character more known for the Playstation Brand
2. She's from a genre that doesn't historically gel well with Nintendo's core audience
3. She's got two different continuities and designs going that don't really match up with each other
4. Her arsenal is almost entirely real-world, no asterisks guns.

Any one of those things wouldn't dissuade discussion but all together they tend to push her to the back of the queue.

Personally, I only think 3 and 4 are anything to worry about, but would be up to Square, Sakurai and CERO. In my mind, Original Lara's gameplay would centre around acrobatic flips and dual wielded pistols while reboot Lara's gameplay would most likely be a more methodical sort of thing with arrow snipes from afar to inflict knockdown, allowing her to get close and uncomfortably brutal with climbing picks.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'll post this again.

Despite what most people seem to think, Game Freak isn't very controlling with Sakurai. They never forced him to choose Greninja or Incineroar in order to promote something. They're giving him a lot of room for creative thinking, and they're not treating Smash like it's supposed to be one big ad for their games.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Is it me? or does it really feel like that each Pokemon rep they add is based the Pokemon featured of the movies and anime seasons?

It's obviously a coincidence, but I feel like it's worth mentioning.

This falls apart when you figure out that Greninja was worked on before the X and Y anime even started.

 

[Shroob]

I'll post this again.

View attachment 276224

Despite what most people seem to think, Game Freak isn't very controlling with Sakurai. They never forced him to choose Greninja or Incineroar in order to promote something. They're giving him a lot of room for creative thinking, and they're not treating Smash like it's supposed to be one big ad for their games.

Buuuuuuuut it's also ironic how things seem to work out, ain't it.

Sakurai picks Greninja.

Suddenly Greninja is the poster boy of Gen 6.

Sakurai picks Incineroar, Incineroar honestly takes Decidueye's spot as the poster boy starter of Gen 7. Decidueye got in Pokken, but otherwise? Incineroar got all the spotlight. Got in the movie, got in the anime, got in Smash.... etc


Sure, they probably had that in the pipeline, but I can't help but feel like this doesn't have weight in the decision. If not, that's a really ****ing weird and convenient coincidence.

They may say they don't have a hand in it, but this is a lot of coincidences that all seem to work out for their benefit in the end. Very strange how that works out.


Either Sakurai is a literal god at picking out Pokemon that he knows will be extremely marketable for TPC, who then build their entire promotion around him

Or the more reasonable answer is they give him a curated amount to choose from that they intend to promote anyway and then go from there.

 

[PacificFun]

Not gonna show it here because it might be seem as shameless advertisment but I made a moveset video for her. In it, fused all versions of Lara into one essentially. That way, her moveset would be highly varied.

I feel like anyone calling her boring has never played a Tomb Raider game (that's probably the case tbh).

Edit: Oops, this is post was suppose to be a reply to Guybrush20X6. My bad.

 

[Knight Dude]

It makes me pretty sad that so many people who say characters like Crash, Master Chief, Dante, Sora and even Gordon Freeman are the last big hype characters...

When Lara Croft is literally standing right there. ;-;

I don't understand why she's so unpopular in discussion. She's a gaming all-star.

Hey, I'm more than willing to dap up Lara Croft because she is another gaming icon. I don't hear people bring up Gordon as much anymore. But I do think there's a few reasons why she's generally not brought up as much as other people.

I think the biggest reason she isn't brought up as much as Crash or Sora, is because Lara's abilities are typically more "normal" than most game characters, though some games gave her some flashy melee moves, and some ancient artifacts she could throw in if need be. Because her powerset is less over the top than say, Sub-Zero or Dante or Chun-Li, some might not be excited at how she could function.

This could tie into her visual style too. A lot of popular requests are cartoony, anime, fantasy or robot/sci-fi. Granted all of those are VERY broad terms as it is. But Lara, by comparison I guess you could define as modern/realstic-ish. Still we have Solid Snake, so it shouldn't be a problem to see her join if you as me. And she's got a unique aesthetic in a game with 20 different artstyles.

 

[N3ON]

I'll post this again.

View attachment 276224

Despite what most people seem to think, Game Freak isn't very controlling with Sakurai. They never forced him to choose Greninja or Incineroar in order to promote something. They're giving him a lot of room for creative thinking, and they're not treating Smash like it's supposed to be one big ad for their games.

I've read that before, and I don't believe Ohmori. Sakurai left a spot open for an X/Y Pokemon before he even knew about any of them, when there were literally hundreds of existing choices, with at least a sizeable handful that Sakurai could undoubtably have "shown off in a really cool way", without having to jumble development by leaving placeholders in the project plan, which clearly isn't his typical MO.

When Sakurai talked about Incineroar, he said it came down to it and Decidueye. Why just those two? Again, there are hundreds of choices - isn't it a bit coincidental that they just happen to be the exact kind of Pokemon that'd get pushed for promotional purposes?

Plus, if Sakurai narrowed it down to those two because he was genuinely interested in them, and he calls the shots, then logically we should expect Decidueye to still show up at some point. But we all know that's not going to happen. Because for some reason, Sakurai always seems to pick from the newest gen, doesn't he?

Pokemon are clearly chosen with a promotional slant. And that almost certainly doesn't come from Sakurai, because why would it? That statement is PR talk. Or, Ohmori is leaving out the part where they first present him with the acceptable options, then he returns with his ideas, at which point they defer to him.

 

[zriL]

I'll post this again.

View attachment 276224

Despite what most people seem to think, Game Freak isn't very controlling with Sakurai. They never forced him to choose Greninja or Incineroar in order to promote something. They're giving him a lot of room for creative thinking, and they're not treating Smash like it's supposed to be one big ad for their games.

But didn't Sakurai say it's Nintendo who chooses the characters ?
To me, it looks like Sakurai just came to Game Freak to explain Nintendo's choice, so Game Freak think he is the one choosing, but that wouldn't really be the case.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It makes me pretty sad that so many people who say characters like Crash, Master Chief, Dante, Sora and even Gordon Freeman are the last big hype characters...

When Lara Croft is literally standing right there. ;-;

I don't understand why she's so unpopular in discussion. She's a gaming all-star.

I think it's because she's so grounded in reality compared to anyone else we've gotten, which makes it hard to see her doing double jumps and fancy stuff with items and whatnot. Kazuma Kiryu's the only grounded character I can see happening. That being said, I knew of Lara Croft before I even got into gaming, she absolutely has the star power and if she can work, I'd be glad to see her

Not gonna show it here because it might be seem as shameless advertisment but I made a moveset video for her. In it, fused all versions of Lara into one essentially. That way, her moveset would be highly varied.

I feel like anyone calling her boring has never played a Tomb Raider game (that's probably the case tbh).

Edit: Oops, this is post was suppose to be a reply to Guybrush20X6. My bad.

Nah, it's fine to show off a video like that

A number of factors.

1. She's a character more known for the Playstation Brand
2. She's from a genre that doesn't historically gel well with Nintendo's core audience
3. She's got two different continuities and designs going that don't really match up with each other
4. Her arsenal is almost entirely real-world, no asterisks guns.

Any one of those things wouldn't dissuade discussion but all together they tend to push her to the back of the queue.

Personally, I only think 3 and 4 are anything to worry about, but would be up to Square, Sakurai and CERO. In my mind, Original Lara's gameplay would centre around acrobatic flips and dual wielded pistols while reboot Lara's gameplay would most likely be a more methodical sort of thing with arrow snipes from afar to inflict knockdown, allowing her to get close and uncomfortably brutal with climbing picks.

1 applies to Cloud, who's already in and other characters like Crash, Dante and Master Chief who are also highly requested

2 is irrelevant as seen with with the popularity of FPS characters as of late with Doom Slayer and Master Chief

3 is irrelevant as you can easily use alts , Brawlout does this iirc

4 is a joke argument with the guns, CERO doesn't care that Joker's gun is fake, it looks, sounds and acts like a real gun and there's plenty of examples of kid shows using realistic guns in both Japanese shows and western ones

 

[Staarih]

I'm sort of sick of the anthro Pokemon type of fighter. When are we going to get a cute small critter again? We haven't had one since Squirtle.

Same. And not necessary only a cute one, but something unconventional, like a four legged one (Ivysaur and Duck Hunt are the only ones now I think?). Or a floaty/levitating one. Something new.

I feel like the likes of Rowlet, Mimikyu, Lycanroc could have been that, they were certainly popular enough, but no can do. It’ll be interesting to see which Gen 8 one they’ll go with if it ends up happening.

 

[Cosmic77]

Buuuuuuuut it's also ironic how things seem to work out, ain't it.

Sakurai picks Greninja.

Suddenly Greninja is the poster boy of Gen 6.


Sure, they probably had that in the pipeline, but I can't help but feel like this doesn't have weight in the decision.

Sakurai could've easily went with Mimikyu instead of Incineroar. The former had far more promotion from Game Freak than Incineroar (including a special song), far more merch, was a clear fan-favorite when Sakurai made his decision, and had an exclusive Z-move for USUM that could've easily been shown off in Smash to promote those games.

Promotion helps, but it's not the only factor that matters. Sakurai wants the Pokemon to feel unique and appropriate for Smash as well, and I don't think he'd sacrifice that for promotion.

I've read that before, and I don't believe Ohmori. Sakurai left a spot open for an X/Y Pokemon before he even knew about any of them, when there were literally hundreds of existing choices, with at least a sizeable handful that Sakurai could undoubtably have "shown off in a really cool way", without having to jumble development by leaving placeholders in the project plan, which clearly isn't his typical MO.

When Sakurai talked about Incineroar, he said it came down to it and Decidueye. Why just those two? Again, there are hundreds of choices - isn't it a bit coincidental that they just happen to be the exact kind of Pokemon that'd get pushed for promotional purposes?

Plus, if Sakurai narrowed it down to those two because he was genuinely interested in them, and he calls the shots, then logically we should expect Decidueye to still show up at some point. But we all know that's not going to happen. Because for some reason, Sakurai always seems to pick from the newest gen, doesn't he?

Pokemon are clearly chosen with a promotional slant. And that almost certainly doesn't come from Sakurai, because why would it? That statement is PR talk. Or, Ohmori is leaving out the part where they first present him with the acceptable options, then he returns with his ideas, at which point they defer to him.

You're entitled to believe what you want, but it's also possible that the answer is a lot more simpler than you think.

Maybe Sakurai genuinely wants to add new Pokemon from newer games because it allows for more diversity. He's stated in both Smash 4 and Ultimate's DLC that he likes mixing in characters both old and new. He's already visited most of the older Gens, so it'd naturally make the most sense to focus on the Gen that's never had a chance to be represented in Smash.

 

[Shroob]

Sakurai could've easily went with Mimikyu instead of Incineroar. The former had far more promotion from Game Freak than Incineroar (including a special song), far more merch, was a clear fan-favorite when Sakurai made his decision, and had an exclusive Z-move for USUM that could've easily been shown off in Smash to promote those games.

Promotion helps, but it's not the only factor that matters. Sakurai wants the Pokemon to feel unique and appropriate for Smash as well, and I don't think he'd sacrifice that for promotion.



You're entitled to believe what you want, but it's also possible that the answer is a lot more simpler than you think.

Maybe Sakurai genuinely wants to add new Pokemon from newer games because it allows for more diversity. He's stated in both Smash 4 and Ultimate's DLC that he likes mixing in characters both old and new. He's already visited most of the older Gens, so it'd naturally make the most sense to focus on the Gen that's never had a chance to be represented in Smash.

But could he have really?


Because, look what happened to Incineroar. Decidueye is built up as "The starter" of the gen, and suddenly it shifts gears entirely to Incineroar, between the anime, Smash, hell even the game gave Incineroar the best ability.


This is a chicken/egg scenario. What came first. Did Sakurai's choice make TPC shift gears, or did TPC always intend to push Incin.


I just can't look at this in any other light than "Corporate wanted this."

 

[Guybrush20X6]

3 is irrelevant as you can easily use alts , Brawlout does this iirc

It's not a matter of alts, it's the the two different game types have completely foreign game feels to them. Original Tomb Raider is about frantic strafing and the new games are about cover and ambushes. They'd need to stick to one design, at least from a gameplay perspective.

 

[Shroob]

I think it's because she's so grounded in reality compared to anyone else we've gotten, which makes it hard to see her doing double jumps and fancy stuff with items and whatnot. Kazuma Kiryu's the only grounded character I can see happening. That being said, I knew of Lara Croft before I even got into gaming, she absolutely has the star power and if she can work, I'd be glad to see her

Nah, it's fine to show off a video like that

1 applies to Cloud, who's already in and other characters like Crash, Dante and Master Chief who are also highly requested

2 is irrelevant as seen with with the popularity of FPS characters as of late with Doom Slayer and Master Chief

3 is irrelevant as you can easily use alts , Brawlout does this iirc

4 is a joke argument with the guns, CERO doesn't care that Joker's gun is fake, it looks, sounds and acts like a real gun and there's plenty of examples of kid shows using realistic guns in both Japanese shows and western ones

I'm of two minds of Laura, which sucks.


I recognize her being an extremely iconic, important, and frankly monumental character...


But it's like Nathan Drake, in that a moveset based on her more recent appearances just bores me to tears thinking about it. If I were to think Laura, I'd want something closer to the PS1 games, dual wielding pistols, jumping all over the place like wild, etc. That'd be fun.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm pretty sure Pokemon tries to makes all the starters good enough to be a mascot and see which one is most popular from there.

 

[Cosmic77]

But could he have really?


Because, look what happened to Incineroar. Decidueye is built up as "The starter" of the gen, and suddenly it shifts gears entirely to Incineroar, between the anime, Smash, hell even the game gave Incineroar the best ability.


This is a chicken/egg scenario. What came first. Did Sakurai's choice make TPC shift gears, or did TPC always intend to push Incin.


I just can't look at this in any other light than "Corporate wanted this."

Decidueye and the whole Rowlet line was never built up as "the starter" of Gen 7.

People may have come to that conclusion after Namco included it in Pokken, but there was essentially nothing from Game Freak that supported that. From the very first episode of the SuMo anime, Litten was the one who got an emotional buildup to its master dying, followed by a dedication to evolving and beating Masked Royal's Incineroar. Rowlet was the comic relief like Piplup, Oshawott, and Chespin were before it. Incineroar was one of three Gen 7 Pokemon to be featured in the I Choose You movie; Decidueye was not one of them. Decidueye's first appearance in the anime was literally just so it could lose to Incineroar and highlight how incredible the latter was supposed to be. Decidueye wouldn't recieve any meaningful appearances until the Pokemon League, and it lost to Rowlet.

Keep in mind that Incineroar wasn't chosen until USUM, so it's not like things suddenly shifted from Decidueye to Incineroar.

 

[Shroob]

Decidueye and the whole Rowlet line was never built up as "the starter" of Gen 7.

People may have come to that conclusion after Namco included it in Pokken, but there was essentially nothing from Game Freak that supported that. From the very first episode of the SuMo anime, Litten was the one who got an emotional buildup to its master dying, followed by a dedication to evolving and beating Masked Royal's Incineroar. Rowlet was the comic relief like Piplup, Oshawott, and Chespin were before it. Incineroar was one of three Gen 7 Pokemon to be featured in the I Choose You movie; Decidueye was not one of them. Decidueye's first appearance in the anime was literally just so it could lose to Incineroar and highlight how incredible the latter was supposed to be. Decidueye wouldn't recieve any meaningful appearances until the Pokemon League, and it lost to Rowlet.

And that's the thing, you yourself admit that Gamefreak was pushing the Litten line hard.

And Sakurai chose Incineroar.

Which, you mentioned earlier, he didn't have to, yet he did.


So in the end, like Greninja, his interests, and TPC's interests both lined up exactly.


Again, funny how that works.

 

[Knight Dude]

It's not a matter of alts, it's the the two different game types have completely foreign game feels to them. Original Tomb Raider is about frantic strafing and the new games are about cover and ambushes. They'd need to stick to one design, at least from a gameplay perspective.

Well, sure, they'd likely have to primarily focus on one type of idea for Lara to use while visually both versions could co-exist via suits. It's not like Wario's two versions have drastically different movesets. They kind of had a mish-mash(Ware,World and Land, although barely) of 3 games moves to keep him as a frantic weirdo. It'd be easier to imagine the frantic gymnast Lara from the OG games in Smash, and that's sorta what the Brawlhalla version does. Make her jumpy and agile. And I'd say really good at whittling enemies down with the two glocks.

There's also Ryu Hayabusa, who has at least 3 interpretations to pull from, but as long as the idea of an agile Ninja with a Katana and some Ninpo, you can probably get a good Hayabusa moveset for Smash. Even if a ton of it was pulled from DoA. Or if they stuck strictly with NES Ryu.

 

[Cosmic77]

And that's the thing, you yourself admit that Gamefreak was pushing the Litten line hard.

And Sakurai chose Incineroar.

Which, you mentioned earlier, he didn't have to, yet he did.


So in the end, like Greninja, his interests, and TPC's interests both lined up exactly.


Again, funny how that works.

They were pushing other Pokemon too though. To be honest, Sakurai could've chose Mimikyu or Lycanroc instead, and that probably wouldn't change the conversation much. People would still claim that Sakurai just added the corporate shill pick that was forced upon him.

Honestly, this mindset is almost unavoidable. You're practically guaranteed to get this if the Pokemon is from the latest Gen, and it only gets worse if GF showed any kind of special attention to the Pokemon chosen. Cinderace, Zacian, Yamper, Wooloo, Corviknight, Obstagoon, Morpeko — Sakurai could choose any of these guys, and I still think people would be making similar claims.

 

[osby]

It's not a matter of alts, it's the the two different game types have completely foreign game feels to them. Original Tomb Raider is about frantic strafing and the new games are about cover and ambushes. They'd need to stick to one design, at least from a gameplay perspective.

They really don't.

It's not uncommon for Smash movesets to take cues from multiple incarnations of one character. Lara Croft using weapons or skills from classic and modern games with both designs appearing as alts would have no downsides aside from irritating purists which isn't a downside

 

[Shroob]

They were pushing other Pokemon too though. To be honest, Sakurai could've chose Mimikyu or Lycanroc instead, and that probably wouldn't change the conversation much. People would still claim that Sakurai just added the corporate shill pick that was forced upon him.

Honestly, this mindset is almost unavoidable. You're practically guaranteed to get this if the Pokemon is from the latest Gen, and it only gets worse if GF showed any kind of special attention to the Pokemon chosen. Cinderace, Zacian, Yamper, Wooloo, Corviknight, Obstagoon, Morpeko — Sakurai could choose any of these guys, and I still think people would be making similar claims.

Depends on how prominently they are going forward.

Yamper, Wooloo, Corvinight and Obstagoon would more likely get "Why" or "What" reactions from the majority of the players. Those don't feel like "Corporate shill picks" at all, especially cause, outside of the pre-release, those 4 barely see any promotion at the moment.

Zacian, I honestly doubt because "It's the box legendary". That, and Legendaries seem to just get a free pass simply because they're cool. No one really points at Mewtwo as a "Shill pick" for the movie.

Cinderace though? Well, it doesn't help when the anime makes the starters effectively a main character. If the anime gave all the starters equal screentime it'd be one thing, but Litten was clearly built up as 'the' starter in Sun/Moon's anime, with Rowlet serving as comic relief more often than not. If the anime was more balanced in the 3, it'd be one thing, but they clearly play favorites with starters.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I love how it's taken so long for me to realise that a Primid would be really interesting as a playable character. Hell, maybe they could even summon other Subspace enemies for certain attacks. Plus, there's a ton of Primid types, so they could do a Pirahna Plant - and the Final Smash would involve Tabuu somehow.