Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[GoodGrief741]

WHAT THE **** BLOODSTAINED COTM2 AND NMHIII AAAA


*calms down*

Oh **** Curse of the Moon 2?? And what's up with NMH?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Ever since I got tagged there I decided to check around for bad opinions, that's where 2 of the 3 are from

Well, everyone has different opinions there, it is rare to find something that is universally loved. Anyone getting over a 65% want though is a goddamn miracle.

Now hated, that is easy. I remember Bubsy almost got double 0s across the board. Though I would actually laugh if we got Bubsy I would not even be mad.

 

[SirBillyBob]

They never said the number 1 character would get in, all they said was that it would be used as a reference for Smash 4 and the next Smash game. The people acting like it was an election were Smash fans

Smash fans do tend to share three brain cells, but there you go. Just shove the point down their skulls that it's for suggestions.

 

[Dinoman96]

You whiners, without the ballot we wouldn’t have K. Rool, Banjo, Castlevania, them two echoes, and, allegedly, Ridley. (Even though Sakurai knew he was clearly popular beforehand so iunno). Oh and it was also probably a big reason all those vets came back.

It can also be credited for allowing the likes of Isaac and Krystal to physically appear again as ATs, years after their last appearances in games.

 

[slrigeigdew]

Am I the only one who thinks there should've been a second Smash Ballot?

If they're gonna pull the "this character was the winner* (*among realizable characters)" then it's meaningless. If they're not going to be transparent on who was voted on and why they couldn't get in then people are just going to automatically assume it's rigged if it's a character they don't like. Not worth.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Yeah, in terms of directly telling the team what fans want, the ballot is one of the best ways of doing so.

 

[SharkLord]

No Miriam is ****ing dumb, she's literally the mascot

Oh no, I didn't expect people to be angry at Min Min per se, but rather "WHAT THE **** YOU COULD HAVE PROMOTED AN ASSIST NOW ASSISTS ARE STILL DECONFIRMS **** YOU". Surprisingly, none of the 3 laughing stocks cared about that

Wait CotM 2 excuse me WHA-
I like Dominique's design, and not just in appearance. I found it pretty interesting how RotN based it's plot points off of CotM's without completely copying it, and now CotM's returning the favor with it's own reinventions. No Miriam is odd, but CotM's beginning to feel like a completely separate thing at this point. And then there's my theory on how the Zangetsus are Bloodstained's answer to the Belmonts...

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I'd be interested in another Smash Ballot just because with most of the popular go-to options snapped into the roster, I'm interested in seeing which demographics would rise up to fill in the void that K. Rool/Ridley/Banjo/other veterans left behind. I mean it's probably gonna be Geno/Waluigi/Bandee, but still I'm interested in seeing numbers 4-10 most-wanteds that could reach similar bandwagon status.

Like what's the worst that's gonna happen? Smash fans whining that their choices didn't make it in is par for the course at this point, and the absolute worst-case I can think of is Goku and Kirito making it in Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait CotM 2 excuse me WHA-
I like Dominique's design, and not just in appearance. I found it pretty interesting how RotN based it's plot points off of CotM's without completely copying it, and now CotM's returning the favor with it's own reinventions. No Miriam is odd, but CotM's beginning to feel like a completely separate thing at this point. And then there's my theory on how the Zangetsus are Bloodstained's answer to the Belmonts...

CotM was made as a side project of RotN

Smash fans do tend to share three brain cells, but there you go. Just shove the point down their skulls that it's for suggestions.

Funny, you think they'll ever listen

 

[SharkLord]

I think another Smash Ballot could work on the basis that they're more honest with it. Instead of making it a "number one character gets in" it could instead be a "the most popular characters might get in." Instead of calling it an election box, they could rather call it a suggestion one instead. That's what it basically was last time.

That would help a lot. Have a whole pass of elections, and make sure everyone knows that not everyone is feasible.

I was thinking the same thing too. I'm guessing it's because there's a lot of overlap between the people who want AT promotions and the people who want spirits promotion.

Also unlike last time, there's actually a vocal fanbase for this character

There's also the fact that the month-long guessing game got people invested in the cast of ARMS and made sure they set their expectations accordingly. If it was just dropped as "Hey guys, here's ARMS," there would be a lot more salt about another "shill/literal nobody" after Byleth. By making sure everyone knows the fighter's from ARMS, they judge the character by ARMS standards and not by general standards. Sure, we had to wait longer, but the vast majority is happy and we've got one of the most unique fighters in the game. I think it was worth the wait.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That would help a lot. Have a whole pass of elections, and make sure everyone knows that not everyone is feasible.

They did that though

 

[Megadoomer]

Oh **** Curse of the Moon 2?? And what's up with NMH?

We got our first gameplay. ...sort of.

Also, Suda is entirely relatable here.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I think the ballot has largely served its purpose at this point. It was just supposed to be fan's chance to voice their opinions across the board and it has seriously contributed to Smash. Everyone is Here as a concept, Inkling, Ridley, Simon and Richter, Dark Samus, Chrom, King K. Rool, Hero, and Banjo & Kazooie all in Ultimate alone all satisfy major fan requests and ideas that Nintendo and Sakurai have worked hard to realize. Sure, some of those were added beyond fan demand, but that demand certainly didn't hurt any of them either. There's a lot of evidence that Nintendo and Sakurai can continue to cite in making their choices moving forward.

Sure, I'll be the first to say that a lot has changed in the 5 years since the ballot happened regarding speculation, and since then third parties have begun to dominate Smash discourse in a way that almost certainly doesn't reflect as much on the ballot... but Nintendo as they are right now seems more aware than ever of the importance of third parties and has paid attention to a lot of fan demand for many of their series. The ballot gave them insight they may not have otherwise seen into some characters, but they've also shown to be a more attentive company than they were before the Switch era.

That also said, I think speculation's obsession around "fan favorites" tends to be bad enough and suggestions such as a pass "dedicated to them" just doesn't really sound like an appealing option considering how many other fighters have come into the conversation outside of the conventional avenues of fan expectation. So in that regard, I wouldn't really be that interested in seeing another ballot conducted... especially considering there is unlikely to be an impending sequel that can really capitalize on it the same way Ultimate was able to based on the original ballot from Smash 4.

 

[SirBillyBob]

We got our first gameplay. ...sort of.

Also, Suda is entirely relatable here.

Nah, Suda isn't covering the gameplay, he is the gameplay.

 

[7NATOR]

You know now that I think about it, since the whole Ballot talk, What requests do you guys think will stand the test of time for at least another 2 decades. Do you guys for example think Waluigi and Geno could survive another 2 Decades of Waiting for their character or would they give up?

 

[MooMew64]

The idea of the Ballot was neat but what it did to speculation was horrible. I would rather not repeat that disaster.

 

[N3ON]

More over, most of the ballot was a time of positivity, because everyone was quite optimistic. Prior to the ballot, people had utterly stopped expecting any character that wasn't of recent importance, given the roster that had just transpired. People weren't even expecting much DLC past Mewtwo. But the ballot gave people hope for characters like K. Rool, Isaac, Banjo, and to a lesser extent, Geno. Plus, it was the first time people really started getting behind indies as plausible candidates.

When people are hopeful, there is much less acrimony. It only comes to a head at the end, when hopes are dashed, like it did with the ballot. At the end, with Corrin and Bayo, it was fairly unpleasant, true enough, but that was largely on Nintendo as well, who didn't actually provide what they intimated they would. Were there to be another ballot in the future, Nintendo could mitigate most of the negativity just be giving the fanbase one of the popular characters from the actual results instead of a promotional character barely anyone asked for and a very divisive third-party.

It's unfortunate people have forgotten that the majority of the ballot's tenure was actually a fairly pleasant and upbeat time for the Smash fanbase, all things considered.

It can also be credited for allowing the likes of Isaac and Krystal to physically appear again as ATs, years after their last appearances in games.

Very true.

I think another Smash Ballot could work on the basis that they're more honest with it. Instead of making it a "number one character gets in" it could instead be a "the most popular characters might get in." Instead of calling it an election box, they could rather call it a suggestion one instead. That's what it basically was last time.

I agree they need to be honest as in make the winner a character that actually was chosen due to the ballot, but they never called it an election box. The fans took that upon themselves despite many warning them it probably didn't work like that.

Many people said it probably was a matter of just presenting Nintendo would a group of popular characters, within whom Nintendo would make selections, but fans, as they are want to do, were adamant to their individual interpretations, often via putting words in Nintendo/Sakurai's mouth.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

I don't mind having a 2nd smash ballot,it's just that I don't want it to end up like the last time we got the first ballot.

 

[Dinoman96]

You know now that I think about it, since the whole Ballot talk, What requests do you guys think will stand the test of time for at least another 2 decades. Do you guys for example think Waluigi and Geno could survive another 2 Decades of Waiting for their character or would they give up?

Honestly if Geno doesn't get in this game, I think that will be the end of the road for him.

Honestly, the only reason Geno's still even a thing in the Smash online communtiy is because the infamous interview with Sakurai back in 2016. If Geno still can't get in even after the lip service from Sakurai and Ultimate adding in other long requested fan favorites like Ridley, K. Rool and Banjo, then I don't see what chances he has going forward. The fanbase will just go back to where it was after Brawl, mostly dissipated and scattered to the winds.

 

[Cosmic77]

Honestly if Geno doesn't get in this game, I think that will be the end of the road for him.

Honestly, the only reason Geno's still even a thing in the Smash online communtiy is because the infamous interview with Sakurai back in 2016. If Geno still can't get in even after the lip service from Sakurai and Ultimate adding in other long requested fan favorites like Ridley, K. Rool and Banjo, then I don't see what chances he has going forward. The fanbase will just go back to where it was after Brawl, mostly dissipated and scattered to the winds.

Guess it just depends on how the fanbase responds.

Personally, I feel like this is Geno's best shot. I don't think he'll ever have a better opportunity to be added than now. If the DLC ends with him as a costume (or even worse, the costume doesn't return), then I imagine morale being at an all-time low. Same thing happened with Ridley in Smash 4, even though he got a happy ending.

It's a make-it-or-break-it moment. Will the fanbase tough it out, or will they move on, go their separate ways, and support other characters?

 

[7NATOR]

Also I do gotta ask, I know both Geno and Waluigi are popular, but would it feel right for both of them to be in One Pass. If Waluigi gets in, is it possible that he'd be re-using alot of Assets, from his AT model, to perhaps his stage being Rainbow Road, to his Spirit board being Mostly Re-used, to music being taken from Un-used mario Songs

 

[Jomosensual]

Honestly if Geno doesn't get in this game, I think that will be the end of the road for him.

Honestly, the only reason Geno's still even a thing in the Smash online communtiy is because the infamous interview with Sakurai back in 2016. If Geno still can't get in even after the lip service from Sakurai and Ultimate adding in other long requested fan favorites like Ridley, K. Rool and Banjo, then I don't see what chances he has going forward. The fanbase will just go back to where it was after Brawl, mostly dissipated and scattered to the winds.

Hate to say it but yeah. If Geno doesn't get into this game even after all the fan support and seeing almost all the others get in..... ooof. On top of that we're likely not getting another Smash game for a very long time, and it'll likely pass the 30 year mark since SMRPG came out. That feels bad

 

[Spatman]

WHAT THE **** BLOODSTAINED COTM2 AND NMHIII AAAA


*calms down*

I must say, I'm genuinely surprised at how little outrage I saw for Min Min, I expected a lot more people to be pissed that Sakurai didn't go for an AT promotion but I've only seen like 3 people be upset at the lack of Spring Man

I guess it's dued to the fact Sakurai goes for the most popular of the ARMS roster, and because her moveset looks like so interesting and original

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't know, even with the frankly awful experience I've had with the Geno fandom... I gotta give it to them, they're resilient. They're passionate, they love Geno and SMRPG and they support each other. It's not like time and competition and constant snubbing has kept them down in all these years. I think if Geno's Mii Costume comes back, or even if he's absent from Ultimate altogether, they'll find an explanation for it and just keep on trucking. They know Geno's shot is never truly gone unless they stop supporting him.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

School Uniform Joker

wha? OH Lol I read that as soccer uniform

 

[N3ON]

Also I do gotta ask, I know both Geno and Waluigi are popular, but would it feel right for both of them to be in One Pass. If Waluigi gets in, is it possible that he'd be re-using alot of Assets, from his AT model, to perhaps his stage being Rainbow Road, to his Spirit board being Mostly Re-used, to music being taken from Un-used mario Songs

Well if that's the case the stage and the character would both be revised to be in higher fidelity than before, and they're going to give him at least one or two new remixes, he's not ****ing Cloud. And there's still unused art out there, but no one buys the characters for the spirits.

I mean, you're still getting a unique character, a stage not in the game, and at least some new music. So... there wouldn't really be an issue unless you were looking for one.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I think if Geno's Mii Costume comes back, or even if he's absent from Ultimate altogether, they'll find an explanation for it and just keep on trucking

not to be rude, but isnt that just called denial?

 

[SharkLord]

Nah, Suda isn't covering the gameplay, he is the gameplay.

The entire game is just a conversation with Suda sim.

 

[7NATOR]

Okay Another Question, I keep getting them

If Bomberman were to be a Mii Costume, would he be a Gunner, Swordfighter, or a Brawler?

 

[SharkLord]

Okay Another Question, I keep getting them

If Bomberman were to be a Mii Costume, would he be a Gunner, Swordfighter, or a Brawler?

I don't know too much about Bomberman, but I think the Gunner's the closest analogue to explosives.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Okay Another Question, I keep getting them

If Bomberman were to be a Mii Costume, would he be a Gunner, Swordfighter, or a Brawler?

gunner I guess

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Also I do gotta ask, I know both Geno and Waluigi are popular, but would it feel right for both of them to be in One Pass. If Waluigi gets in, is it possible that he'd be re-using alot of Assets, from his AT model, to perhaps his stage being Rainbow Road, to his Spirit board being Mostly Re-used, to music being taken from Un-used mario Songs

I really don't see the issue with any of these. Is there supposed to be something wrong with the Waluigi Assist Trophy being recycled to make a playable version, or his stage possibly being Rainbow Road (which I don't think would happen, but it's possible)? At most, his Spirit Board would re-use certain Spirits as a cost and time-saving measure, thus limiting the selection of new Spirits, but as has been previously said, no one buys the characters just for the Spirits.

As for both Waluig and Geno both being in the Pass, I certainly wouldn't be against it (including two fun and unique characters that fans have been asking to be playable for literally years at this point would only be a good thing) but it's not exactly likely. If anything, I expect one to get into Fighters Pass 2, while the other has to wait for a potential Fighters Pass 3 (assuming a Fighters Pass 3 is even happening). Either that, or the other ends up as a singular "bonus DLC" a la Piranha Plant.

 

[Royalty1702]

Okay Another Question, I keep getting them

If Bomberman were to be a Mii Costume, would he be a Gunner, Swordfighter, or a Brawler?

Gunner. If not Gunner, Brawler. If not Brawler, no Mii costume.

 

[Cosmic77]

not to be rude, but isnt that just called denial?

Ehh... Well, at the very least, giving up altogether isn't doing Geno any favors. It might be a little unrealistic to call Geno one of the most likely characters in the next Smash game, but at least they wouldn't be giving up in this case.

I do think they should temper their expectations though. Ever since Ridley, Geno has been labeled as one of the most likely characters to get in Smash, despite the needle not not moving very much in his favor. SE has already gotten a character, Mii costumes from Smash 4 are still being added even in the second pass, and we've already seen Geno miss his opportunity twice — once in the base game and once in the first pass.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Okay Another Question, I keep getting them

If Bomberman were to be a Mii Costume, would he be a Gunner, Swordfighter, or a Brawler?

It’s why we need more Miis—Add a Bomber type along with Magic. Nobody would complain.

But genuinely probably Gunner as his blasts would be long range.

 

[7NATOR]

I really don't see the issue with any of these. Is there supposed to be something wrong with the Waluigi Assist Trophy being recycled to make a playable version, or his stage possibly being Rainbow Road (which I don't think would happen, but it's possible)? At most, his Spirit Board would re-use certain Spirits as a cost and time-saving measure, thus limiting the selection of new Spirits, but as has been previously said, no one buys the characters just for the Spirits.

As for both Waluig and Geno both being in the Pass, I certainly wouldn't be against it (including two fun and unique characters that fans have been asking to be playable for literally years at this point would only be a good thing) but it's not exactly likely. If anything, I expect one to get into Fighters Pass 2, while the other has to wait for a potential Fighters Pass 3 (assuming a Fighters Pass 3 is even happening). Either that, or the other ends up as a singular "bonus DLC" a la Piranha Plant.

Nothing wrong it with, just something i was pointing out could happen


Also I was just thinking of something

If League of Legends were to get a another Character, wouldn't that Be technically double dipping, as Riot games is owned by Tencent, who also owns SNK?

 

[Royalty1702]

I think Smash has a chance at getting a rep. What are Primid's chances looking like?

 

[RileyXY1]

Ehh... Well, at the very least, giving up altogether isn't doing Geno any favors. It might be a little unrealistic to call Geno one of the most likely characters in the next Smash game, but at least they wouldn't be giving up in this case.

I do think they should temper their expectations though. Ever since Ridley, Geno has been labeled as one of the most likely characters to get in Smash, despite the needle not not moving very much in his favor. SE has already gotten a character, Mii costumes from Smash 4 are still being added even in the second pass, and we've already seen Geno miss his opportunity twice — once in the base game and once in the first pass.

However, Square Enix has other characters they can choose from.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I might also add that this is a Smash game with a lot of potential to change the speculation landscape, and it definitely already has.

We’ve gotten so many of the most storied Smash requests out there. Geno is essentially one of the last, still there like Skull Kid and a few others who just hasn’t transpired yet. This is largest Smash game ever, though, and it really does seem like “the end of the line”.

Like at this point, I think I speak for a lot of folks that the focus is on the current title, with the ongoing Smash series as uncertain. Not that there won’t be another Smash game so much, but more that it’ll likely be quite different in scope and content than Ultimate has already reached. Ultimate has the opportunity to become an evergreen title going forward, and the hype of being in that is just really something.

To not be a part of it I think will take the wind out of the sails of supporters for awhile, especially after what could literally be considered “generations” of support.

 

[SKX31]

Nothing wrong it with, just something i was pointing out could happen


Also I was just thinking of something

If League of Legends were to get a another Character, wouldn't that Be technically double dipping, as Riot games is owned by Tencent, who also owns SNK?

Quick correction: Nope, Tencent does not own SNK. SNK's owners are a joint venture between LeYou (Owners of Digitial Extreme, aka WarFrame) through LeYou's subsidiary Ledo Millenium, Orient Securities (a regional bank based in Shanghai) and mobile game producer 37 Games,

There was talk off a Tencent-backed company (iDreamSky) buying Leyou, but I have no clue if that went through.