Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[toonito]

That's still only two for each type.

hmmm i've got it!

since we have 2 fire, 2 water, 2 electric, and 2 dark

that narrows down the alleged gen 8 pokemon rep to

another normal, fairy, grass, poison, fighting, steel, psychic, or flying type

open and shut case, johnson!

 

[GoodGrief741]

Fair enough. (Also Yoshi's male so you dodged a bullet there.)

I assume there have to be female Yoshis though, right?

 

[Cosmic77]

hmmm i've got it!

since we have 2 fire, 2 water, 2 electric, and 2 dark

that narrows down the alleged gen 8 pokemon rep to

another normal, fairy, grass, poison, fighting, steel, psychic, flying

open and shut case, johnson!

Add Zacian or Zamazenta and we can have two Fairy/Fighting and two Steel.

But seriously, I hate it when people put such an emphasis on the type of the Pokemon. People often dismiss any Pokemon belonging to a type that they believe we have too many of without even considering how the Pokemon would play.

I don't really want Cinderace, but I would never say it's bad just because it's a fire-type. I actually think it would be a very unique character if it had a projectile-heavy moveset.

 

[RileyXY1]

Add Zacian or Zamazenta and we can have two Fairy/Fighting and two Steel.

But seriously, I hate it when people put such an emphasis on the type of the Pokemon. People often dismiss any Pokemon belonging to a type that they believe we have too many of without even considering how the Pokemon would play.

I don't really want Cinderace, but I would never say it's bad just because it's a fire-type. I actually think it would be a very unique character if it had a projectile-heavy moveset.

Tell that to the people who are obsessed with wanting a Grass-type starter in Smash,

 

[Perkilator]

Tell that to the people who are obsessed with wanting a Grass-type starter in Smash,

Ah, yes.

The Grass-Type we already have.

Do people just forget that?

 

[Koopaul]

Honestly, I don't see why characters like Mario or Kirby would need to be reinvented. Are their movesets simpler mechanically than Smash for and Ultimate's new fighters? Sure, but not everyone needs to be have a complicated toolkit that relies on unique mechanics to standout. There's a lot of merit in having simple characters to help introduce new players to the game or to give people who prefer basic characters the option to use one. Ripping out that consistent flooring that's defined their Smash moveset since day 1 might draw a little attention to them, but it would more likely piss off a lot of people and make learning Smash more difficult.

The Smash 64/Melee/Brawl vets are (largely) still well represented in their movesets. Mario is the all-arounder you assume he would be and references most of his iconic abilities/games. Kirby's moveset does a good job of replicating the physics in his game and his various abilities to make a full moveset. Hell, I'd argue that Mario and Kirby match their home-series appearances better than some modern characters like or . Really, the most vets need nothing, a few new tools to reference a recent release like , or some animation changes like or . The only character who really needs to be reworked from the ground-up is , just to give him a little more of his personality and some moves that aren't ripped from a different character or involve becoming a ball.

I didn't say make Mario more complicated. But you could give him a fresh moveset. Heck even the way he moves and expresses himself could use an overhaul. Let me give you an example, in the Mario games he throws fireballs like a baseball, like this:

https://www.mariowiki.com/images/thumb/7/7e/Normal_firemario.jpg/800px-Normal_firemario.jpg
But in Smash he sort of shoots it from his palm? It's odd. This is just an aesthetic thing but there's just a ton of moves and abilities that they could change. Maybe his up special could be him shooting up with the Super Cape? His down smash could be swiping the Tanuki tail around him. Stuff like that. He doesn't have to be gimmicky. But he has the potential to be more than he is now. He's holding onto attacks and animations that have been around since Melee. It's gotten old and I welcome a refreshed Mario.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

As a Mario main, keep him the way he is.

That’s just me though, lol.

 

[Dinoman96]

Nah, Mario's down smash is good as is, especially since it's based directly from an attack from Mario 64

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That's a pretty cool idea, I'll give it a shot.

stay.

gets to stay due to having gender differences, gets to stay thanks to being stereotypically female-coded. stays but only as Spiky-Eared Pichu.

Mii Fighters stay too I guess.

To that I'd add:

Toadette
Dixie Kong
Midna
Tetra
Toon Zelda
Adeleine
Krystal
Eevee
Gardevoir
Lyn
Mona
Ashley
Captain Syrup
Medusa
Viridi
Brittany
Fiora
Elma
Octoling
Ribbon Girl
Min Min
Twintelle
Dr. Coyle
Amy Rose
Roll
Tron Bonne
Ms. Pac-Man
Chun-Li
Terra Branford
Jeanne
Gruntilda
Mai Shiranui

And from new series:

Akari Hayami (1080°)
Ashley Misuki Robbins (Another Code)
Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
Kissy (Baraduke)
Qucy (BoxBoy)
Bubbles (Clu Clu Land)
Kasumi (Dead or Alive)
Jill (Drill Dozer)
Alexandra Roivas (Eternal Darkness)
Tethi (Ever Oasis)
Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club)
Yuri Kozukata (Fatal Frame)
Fossil Fighter
Barbara the Bat (Jam with the Band)
2B (NieR)
Starly (Starfy)
Blaze Fielding (Streets of Rage)
Savvy Stylist (Style Savvy)
Mach Rider
Monster Hunter
Amaterasu (Okami)
Lip (Panel de Pon)
Aya Brea (Parasite Eve)
Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark)
Chell (Portal)
Arle Nadja (Puyo Puyo)
Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
Ring Fit Adventurer
Shantae
Ivy Valentine (Soul Calibur)
Ulala (Space Channel 5)
Musashi (Sushi Striker)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
Reimu Hakurei (Touhou)
Carmen Sandiego

Disclaimer 1: I don't consider Dark Samus to have a gender, so I don't think it counts, but if it did then by all means keep it.

Disclaimer 2: I interpret Sheik as female, so that's why she's there.

Disclaimer 3: I don't know what NiGHTs is, if I were sure she'd be there.

Disclaimer 4: I expect to have missed characters that will be insultingly obvious to me in retrospect. (Like Reimu!)

NiGHTS is non-binary I believe. They way they’re referred to suggests they don’t have an actual gender

 

[pupNapoleon]

hmmm i've got it!

since we have 2 fire, 2 water, 2 electric, and 2 dark

that narrows down the alleged gen 8 pokemon rep to

another normal, fairy, grass, poison, fighting, steel, psychic, or flying type

open and shut case, johnson!

For whatever its worth. we have:

Normal: I (jigglypuff half)
Fairy: I (jigglypuff half)
Psychic: I (mewtwo)
Electric II (pichu, pikachu)
Water II (squirtle, greninja half)
Grass I (ivysaur half)
Poison i (ivysaur half)
Fire II (incinceroar half, charizard half)
Flying I (charizard)
Dark (greninja half, incineroar half)
Steel I (lucario half)
FightingI (lucario half)

That's twelve, or 2/3 of all types. The ones that are not in smash:
-bug
-dragon
-ghost
-ground
-ice
-rock

 

[Koopaul]

Nah, Mario's down smash is good as is, especially since it's based directly from an attack from Mario 64

View attachment 274906

I was just spitballing I don't care what they do I just want to play Mario in a new way. I don't want to be playing the same game forever. I personally want to play a brand new Smash that can surprise me. Not just one that changes incrementally.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I assume there have to be female Yoshis though, right?

Ya know, I don't think they explain it. Could be they're like flowers, in that they have both male and female aspects to their biology, and can survive just fine without a female.

 

[Icedragonadam]

As a Mario main, keep him the way he is.

That’s just me though, lol.

His final smash needs to change or be better though.

 

[pupNapoleon]

As a Mario main, keep him the way he is.

That’s just me though, lol.

I would want Mario to be better able to be a platform character. Honestly, just giving him the cap throw (and allowing him all of his movement off of it as if Odyssey- using it as a platform) solves Mario, perfectly.

I didn't say make Mario more complicated. But you could give him a fresh moveset. Heck even the way he moves and expresses himself could use an overhaul. Let me give you an example, in the Mario games he throws fireballs like a baseball, like this:

https://www.mariowiki.com/images/thumb/7/7e/Normal_firemario.jpg/800px-Normal_firemario.jpg
But in Smash he sort of shoots it from his palm? It's odd. This is just an aesthetic thing but there's just a ton of moves and abilities that they could change. Maybe his up special could be him shooting up with the Super Cape? His down smash could be swiping the Tanuki tail around him. Stuff like that. He doesn't have to be gimmicky. But he has the potential to be more than he is now. He's holding onto attacks and animations that have been around since Melee. It's gotten old and I welcome a refreshed Mario.

I fully support this- general particle changes, that dont affect frame speed, but show the character in a deeper animation- should be used.
Mario shoots fireballs like a B actress casts magic in 1978 movies.

DK needs a barrel throw (and DK jr and Dixie.... also maybe give DK a vine swing up B)
Link needs to be able to auto lock onto people.

Every character could be moderately overhauled in my eyes.

...except Yoshi.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

The only weird thing about Mario to me is that he's designed to be Smash's version of a shoto (fireball, uppercut, tornado spin) more than as the Mario. I don't know what I'd even change about him, but even something like a replacement for FLUDD could be a meaningful change. Say if it were replaced with Cappy, which gave Mario new movement options. Just spitballing.

I could see some small animation changes kind of like how down-smash was made into a breakdance.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

So uhhh the ARMS fighter just leaked and uhhh it's very interesting

Spoiler: very real leak

Can't believe Nintendo just let this out in the open like that

 

[Cosmic77]

Ah, yes.

The Grass-Type we already have.

Do people just forget that?

No, but apparently it's only fair that we add a second since Greninja and Incineroar exist.

I really thought people would move past the whole starter triangle after PT, but I guess not.

So uhhh the ARMS fighter just leaked and uhhh it's very interesting

Spoiler: very real leak

View attachment 274915

Can't believe Nintendo just let this out in the open like that

Worst photoshopped Little Mac if I ever saw one.

 

[pupNapoleon]

So uhhh the ARMS fighter just leaked and uhhh it's very interesting

Spoiler: very real leak

View attachment 274915

Can't believe Nintendo just let this out in the open like that

I always see this house and wonder if it is like the cottage at the top of 2000 steps in an 'ancient eastern' culture where someone trains for kung fu, or if its like the ones on the mountains that bring up all grocerries for months because everything freezes and no one can reach you.

Desolate f******* house.

 

[ToddCam]

So uhhh the ARMS fighter just leaked and uhhh it's very interesting

Spoiler: very real leak

View attachment 274915

Can't believe Nintendo just let this out in the open like that

Wasn't this same joke like 2 pages ago?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I find that FLUDD is incredibly useful playing as Mario. All of the suggestions seem to be made as to just be another reference to a Mario game rather than actually fit into a cohesive moveset.

Mario is actually a well functioning character. I wouldn’t change him at all.

 

[Goombaic]

All I would really want Mario to get if he were reworked is stupid recovery options (imagine getting different FLUDD nozzles) and use the hammer as a side smash. Oh, and I guess the fireball could be made spammable, but does anyone really want that?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Wasn't this same joke like 2 pages ago?

I never get the joke... im so literal in thinking

I find that FLUDD is incredibly useful playing as Mario. All of the suggestions seem to be made as to just be another reference to a Mario game rather than actually fit into a cohesive moveset.

Mario is actually a well functioning character. I wouldn’t change him at all.

Because FLUDD is really unnecessary to Mario as a character.
Mario is the platformer.
He is the Jumpman.
He is the mover.
Who can barely move.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I find that FLUDD is incredibly useful playing as Mario. All of the suggestions seem to be made as to just be another reference to a Mario game rather than actually fit into a cohesive moveset.

Mario is actually a well functioning character. I wouldn’t change him at all.

I can't work well with F.L.U.D.D. myself, but my only issue is how it feels underutilized. Like, it'd have made a cool secondary B moveset, but that requires a lot of extra stuff that makes Mario way too complicated. It does help he's actually still pretty beginner friendly beyond F.L.U.D.D.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I always see this house and wonder if it is like the cottage at the top of 2000 steps in an 'ancient eastern' culture where someone trains for kung fu, or if its like the ones on the mountains that bring up all grocerries for months because everything freezes and no one can reach you.

Desolate f******* house.

it's spring man's house

he lives there

he's just been watching everyone from a distance and waiting for the perfect time to strike

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I never get the joke... im so literal in thinking



Because FLUDD is really unnecessary to Mario as a character.
Mario is the platformer.
He is the Jumpman.
He is the mover.
Who can barely move.

Who are you to say what is or isn't necessary to a character? There's much more than that in a moveset, and FLUDD is just as much a part of Mario as his Cappy throw. It's a part of a functioning moveset.

Barely move? I disagree. Have you watched any pro players with Mario? He's pretty damn fast. Up throw to down air, or an up air combo, he's well made. You yourself said he's "the Jumpman" and a very popular combo for him in Ultimate involves jumping and doing the same attack. Over and over again.

I'm just going to tell you: I've mained Mario since 64. He is fine the way he is.

 

[Dinoman96]

I like Super Jump Punch as is. Why?

Because it's literally directly based on his most iconic sprite

 

[Perkilator]

Only change I would've made to is making Cappy his grab.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I find that FLUDD is incredibly useful playing as Mario. All of the suggestions seem to be made as to just be another reference to a Mario game rather than actually fit into a cohesive moveset.

Mario is actually a well functioning character. I wouldn’t change him at all.

Who are you to say what is or isn't necessary to a character? There's much more than that in a moveset, and FLUDD is just as much a part of Mario as his Cappy throw. It's a part of a functioning moveset.

Barely move? I disagree. Have you watched any pro players with Mario? He's pretty damn fast. Up throw to down air, or an up air combo, he's well made. You yourself said he's "the Jumpman" and a very popular combo for him in Ultimate involves jumping and doing the same attack. Over and over again.

I'm just going to tell you: I've mained Mario since 64. He is fine the way he is.

Who am I- an opinionated Smasher. We've chatted for a half decade. Nice to chat again Scoli!

I'm not stating Mario isnt 'fine' for Smash.
I'm saying he isnt the same Mario, the same jumping and distance pro, known for that specialty, in Smash bros.
Hence why I call FLUDD (a move from one game that is not particularly of significance for the face of gaming)_ insignificant. Because historically it is.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Only change I would've made to is making Cappy his grab.

Disagree here. His grab is a major part of how he currently functions as a solid character.

I'm not stating Mario isnt 'fine' for Smash.
I'm saying he isnt the same Mario, the same jumping and distance pro, known for that specialty, in Smash bros.
Hence why I call FLUDD (a move from one game that is not particularly of significance for the face of gaming)_ insignificant. Because historically it is.

Why does it matter if it's historically significant or not? If it works in a moveset, it works in a moveset, and overall the moveset does Mario pretty solid justice.

I think you're totally wrong in terms of the jumping thing, as that's a key aspect of his moveset. I'm also not quite sure what you mean with "distance pro", but I can't imagine Mario being an overwhelming long distance fighter in Smash.

What he has, currently, takes bits and pieces of Mario throughout his existence as a character, and fits together into a functioning moveset. Adding things that he uses throughout his games just to add them does not a "better" moveset make.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I still am waiting for Squirtle to have the sunglasses. D:

*Cries in Armored Mewtwo*

 

[Koopaul]

This is all in reference to a potential future Smash that would really have to change things up. In this Smash and how Smash is at this moment, there is no point in changing Mario. But for a future Smash that tries to shake things up in order to compensate for cuts? Yes, they need to make the veterans feel fresh in some way. I think Mario should always maintain his niche and role in the series as the starter character who is simple to understand but can offer a lot more to advanced players. That's what he needs to be. And you don't have to have him do everything exactly the same in order to maintain that role.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Damn I can't believe paper mario was the only thing nintendo had for e3

 

[7NATOR]

I'm surprised the Pic of the day hasn't been posted on here yet..

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

*Cries in Armored Mewtwo*

That I can understand being a lower priority. That's new model pieces and would take longer. Meta Ridley was actually not ready for any of the demos due to breaking easily. Sad too.

I also want Conductor Link as a proper alt~

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't get why Mario has to reference these specific games when the moves people suggest replacing are already references to games.

If anything just replace his Final Smash since it barely works as is.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Honestly the only thing I'd want changed about Mario is F.L.U.D.D and giving him a hammer. Even then, said hammer and potential moveset changes could just be made into a newcomer.

 

[-crump-]

Mario’s move set is absolutely fine as is; only things I REALLY want to change about Smash Mario are his voice clips and his bad attitude.

Mario’s had the same voice clips since Brawl and they sound like Charles Martinet had a nasty cold when he recorded them. Mario is such an energetic, bouncy character in almost every other game (pardon the pun), but in Smash he just sounds disinterested.

Beyond that, I’m just sick of how pissed off Mario looks 95% of the time in Smash. Yeah it makes for some funny memes, but it’s such a weird misrepresentation of the most iconic character in gaming. Even if they just gave him a small smile while idling to go along with his angry eyebrows, it would give the impression that he’s competitive (which is true to character) without coming across like a stone cold killer.

 

[Jomosensual]

So since we're almost there(hopefully at least) anyone up for a game of most and least wanted characters from ARMS? I'll go:

Most Wanted - Helix
Least Wanted - Mechanica

 

[Will]

I don't get why Mario has to reference these specific games when the moves people suggest replacing are already references to games.

If anything just replace his Final Smash since it barely works as is.

I remember people trying to say that his final smash is based off of one of his magic attacks in SMRPG.

 

[Cosmic77]

So since we're almost there(hopefully at least) anyone up for a game of most and least wanted characters from ARMS? I'll go:

Most Wanted - Helix
Least Wanted - Mechanica

Most Wanted - Spring Man with Ribbon Girl as an alt. Seem like the best reps for ARMS.
Least Wanted - Springtron. This choice makes absolutely no sense. Go with the orginal before this scrapheap.