Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[DMTN]

If Geno can perform timed hits, they might as well disable the character in online. I already struggle to learn the timing for Alolan Whip, because it's different every match.
Geno will most likely be a standard zoner if he gets in. Just give him some sound effects and visuals from SMRPG and I think most fans would be happy.

 

[Lamperouge]

You guys watch the most recent PapaGenos video?
The stars seem to be aligned for Geno. No pun intended.

Not giving that guy a view after his childish reaction to Byleth.

What's his reasoning for believing that Geno is coming?

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I will say the Legacy XP shutdown is a big thing. the Geno Board uses that for Geno evidence, but take into account that Waluigi, Shadow (also Metal Sonic) were in that mod as well

Could this mean... omg he's in!

Spoiler

 

[Shroob]

The biggest thing Cacomallow had going for it was that, at the time, people assumed that Mii Costume hacking was "Impossible"


Then like, a few days later, people were making their own Mallow hats to prove it wasn't.


Like, at this point, the only argument I've seen is people saying "Well, no one's been able to re-make the Mallow hat EXACTLY", and that comes down to people just not giving enough of a **** to do so. The fact it's been proven that Mii hats can be hacked in, along with Nintendo's absolute refusal to give the leak the time of day, really shoots its credibility in the foot.

 

[Staarih]

I missed the two Warframe spirits.

They are the only ones I don't have right now.

So I hope they come back soon.

Apparently that’s exactly what’s happening, they’re returning with Cuphead and Mugman:

以前のスピリッツイベントに限定出現していた「Warframe」のLotusと、「Cuphead」の4種のスピリッツが、スピリッツボードやショップに出現するようになりました。まだ入手されていない方はぜひチェックしてみてください！ LotusはLv. 99まで育てると、Natahに超化させることができます。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/OnW9EKcE3a

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) June 9, 2020

Which is what prompted the speculation of the pattern of new spirits added after returning ones or something.

 

[DevaAshera]

Not giving that guy a view after his childish reaction to Byleth.

Same here..I hated most people's reactions to Byleth..but his was particularly disgusting..

 

[Shroob]

Same here..I hated most people's reactions to Byleth..but his was particularly disgusting..

I'd like to say that I "couldn't even watch the whole video", but sadly I did.


The whole video of manchild temper tantrum.

It's a shame since, I kinda liked the guy before that but, like, good grief, grow up.

 

[Gentlepanda]

>cacomallow in mid 2020

 

[osby]

I'd like to say that I "couldn't even watch the whole video", but sadly I did.


The whole video of manchild temper tantrum.

It's a shame since, I kinda liked the guy before that but, like, good grief, grow up.

It's OK, it was only a psychology experiment.

Same with saying something offensive and then telling it's just a joke: completely fine and definitely excuses your behavior.

 

[Super Devon]

I'd like to say that I "couldn't even watch the whole video", but sadly I did.


The whole video of manchild temper tantrum.

It's a shame since, I kinda liked the guy before that but, like, good grief, grow up.

Wasn’t it scripted though? Coulda sworn he said that the reaction was faked.

 

[Shroob]

Wasn’t it scripted though? Coulda sworn he said that the reaction was faked.

Oh yeah, I totally believe it was fake after it got downvote blasted to hell.

This is like saying "Hey, that really, REALLY offensive and insensitive thing I said? I WAS KIDDING! HAHA, LAUGH!"

 

[Heoj]

if memory serves im pretty sure papagenos first reaction was a fake he recorded after his real reaction

 

[AEMehr]

Wasn’t it scripted though? Coulda sworn he said that the reaction was faked.

Would anybody go onto the internet and lie?

Either way it doesn't really matter much, damage was done.

I don't think pulling development on a modded game is really telling for anything. Especially because the smash brothers they probably want people to be playing is the one on nintendo switch with new characters being added to it. (it probably doesnt help that a lot of brawl modding right is including characters from ultimate / wii u back into brawl using the same anims as in ultimate)

 

[DevaAshera]

I'd like to say that I "couldn't even watch the whole video", but sadly I did.


The whole video of manchild temper tantrum.

It's a shame since, I kinda liked the guy before that but, like, good grief, grow up.

Yeah..it pretty much was.
I kinda especially hated his, and others (and even my own brothers) reactions to Byleth since she was legit one of my most wanted characters since I do not care how many or few reps any series has, I just want characters I like from games I like and Fire Emblem: Three Houses is definitely one of my favorite games on Switch and my favorite Fire Emblem out of all of them..so seeing everyone being so toxic and hateful towards a character I was legit excited for kinda sucked..a lot. I didn't even do that towards Bowser Jr. getting in..and he is the only character in gaming I legitimately hate..since I knew he had fans.

As someone that wants Saber from Fate/stay night, I kinda legit fear seeing reactions to her if she were to get in since I just know some people would start complaining immediately about 'aNoThEr FiRe EmBlEm' or 'Another Animu Swordsman'..

 

[Shroob]

if memory serves im pretty sure papagenos first reaction was a fake he recorded after his real reaction

So here's a riddle.


He posts the "Fake" reaction, he uploads it, full of manchild ranting for what was it, 40 minutes straight, the video gets downvoted to hell and it ruins his character in the eyes of a lot of people


.....Stonks?



Yeah, no, I'm not buying the "This isn't my REAL reaction!" crap. This is desperately trying to save face after recording yourself being salty as hell and the community suddenly not jumping 100% on board with you.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly? Yeah, it's quite believable it was scripted. It was still a completely dumb thing to do regardless. People try to pull dumb stuff like that easily.

As for Cacomallow, Nintendo would not ignore a real leak like that. Ever. Not on Youtube, an actual outright mainstream website. They never have once. Video footage has always been taken down. People rarely actually leak Nintendo games via video footage on Youtube too, but it's been taken own without fail. There's no reason this would be different.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The Spirit Board is RNG, so you'll want to stock up on Shuffle All and All Primaries board items (get them from the menu shop and spambuy as much as you can. Be aware that the menu shop is also - irritatingly enough - RNG with a 5-10 minute refresh window),

I found that MOST of the time, if you don't already have every spirit, the spirit board often surfaces spirits you don't have. So it's not like "Oh, I only have a 10:2000 chance of getting the spirit I need every 5 minutes". You usually only have to wait 1 or 2 refreshes for a spirit you don't have to show up.

Same here..I hated most people's reactions to Byleth..but his was particularly disgusting..

I was fine with most people's reactions to Byleth.

...but his was particularly obnoxious.

 

[Shroob]

Yeah..it pretty much was.
I kinda especially hated his, and others (and even my own brothers) reactions to Byleth since she was legit one of my most wanted characters since I do not care how many or few reps any series has, I just want characters I like from games I like and Fire Emblem: Three Houses is definitely one of my favorite games on Switch and my favorite Fire Emblem out of all of them..so seeing everyone being so toxic and hateful towards a character I was legit excited for kinda sucked..a lot.

As someone that wants Saber from Fate/stay night, I kinda legit fear seeing reactions to her if she were to get in since I just know some people would start complaining immediately about 'aNoThEr FiRe EmBlEm' or 'Another Animu Swordsman'..

Ironically, I think Saber would hit a completely different hate wagon once a certain piece of her history came to light, ignoring the fact of the status of her series currently leads itself to natural hate of stuff like "Gacha bad" "Phone bad" kind of reactions.

 

[DevaAshera]

Ironically, I think Saber would hit a completely different hate wagon once a certain piece of her history came to light, ignoring the fact of the status of her series currently leads itself to natural hate of stuff like "Gacha bad" "Phone bad" kind of reactions.

Trust me, I'm prepared for people assuming that Saber is either an 'anime character' or a 'mobile rep' even though her origin is a visual novel game that has seen release on PC, PS2, and PS Vita (with the latter two downplaying sexual themes). I'm also prepared for people assuming she's an erotica game rep, which I don't think would be much of an issue since it was only the original release and hasn't resurfaced in any future games or products..except for the Heaven's Feel movies due to storyline importance in that route. I mean, the original game did feature e-game features, but it was only due to Type:Moon believing Visual Novel games needed that to succeed on PC..thankfully Fate/stay night did so well censored on the PS2 that they learned they don't need that stuff.

Won't disagree with Gacha Bad though lol..part of why I prefer the current anime series (plural) and Marvelous' Musou-style Fate/Extella games.

I was fine with most people's reactions to Byleth.

...but his was particularly obnoxious.

I had a bit of bias since I legit wanted Byleth and they were the only character aside from Joker I got legit hyped for (though I still liked all of the others too).

 

[osby]

Yeah..it pretty much was.
I kinda especially hated his, and others (and even my own brothers) reactions to Byleth since she was legit one of my most wanted characters since I do not care how many or few reps any series has, I just want characters I like from games I like and Fire Emblem: Three Houses is definitely one of my favorite games on Switch and my favorite Fire Emblem out of all of them..so seeing everyone being so toxic and hateful towards a character I was legit excited for kinda sucked..a lot. I didn't even do that towards Bowser Jr. getting in..and he is the only character in gaming I legitimately hate..since I knew he had fans.

As someone that wants Saber from Fate/stay night, I kinda legit fear seeing reactions to her if she were to get in since I just know some people would start complaining immediately about 'aNoThEr FiRe EmBlEm' or 'Another Animu Swordsman'..

Saber would get hate for so many different reasons that it's not even funny:

Visual novels aren't real games? Check.
Debuted in an h-game? Check.
Gatcha is evil? Check.
Anime swordsmen? Check.
"Literally who" in the west? Check.
No mainline games on Nintendo consoles? Check.

Her reveal would create meltdowns in possibly every online Smash community and tbh, I kinda want to see it.

 

[Shroob]

Trust me, I'm prepared for people assuming that Saber is either an 'anime character' or a 'mobile rep' even though her origin is a visual novel game that has seen release on PC, PS2, and PS Vita (with the latter two downplaying sexual themes). I'm also prepared for people assuming she's an erotica game rep, which I don't think would be much of an issue since it was only the original release and hasn't resurfaced in any future games or products..except for the Heaven's Feel movies due to storyline importance in that route. I mean, the original game did feature e-game features, but it was only due to Type:Moon believing Visual Novel games needed that to succeed on PC..thankfully Fate/stay night did so well censored on the PS2 that they learned they don't need that stuff.

Won't disagree with Gacha Bad though lol..part of why I prefer the current anime series (plural) and Marvelous' Musou-style Fate/Extella games.

I feel like even though she originates from a VN, the phone game would almost assuredly be what they mainly focus on when talking about her, since, like, it's a lot easier to visualize(no pun intended) compared to some still frames.

That, and... it's basically the icon of the franchise now. That game on its own rakes in billions a year. It has to be one of the biggest cash cows of my generation.

 

[Pinguino21v]

And they really don't care if they confirm it, frankly. When SNK leaked, they took their entire website down to remove it.

To be fair, shutting down your own site because of you own mistake or chasing every single reupload of an image/video on the Internet is not comparable.

 

[Shroob]

To be fair, shutting down your own site because of you own mistake or chasing every single reupload of an image/video on the Internet is not comparable.

They have bots that kill on sight, they don't have to lift a finger other than to turn the Youtube bots on full force. When Smash4 leaked, those videos weren't taken down manually, they were killed on sight by bots that were prepped in case of leaks.

 

[Mr. Robotto]

I don't really get why both Phoenix Wright and Danganronpa get a pass for being potential Visual Novel reps, but others don't really get the time of day. And this is coming from someone who's most wanted has indeed been Phoenix Wright for several years!
I don't play much Visual Novels (the entire Ace Attorney franchise and Steins;Gate are the extent of my knowledge), but is it because of the interactivity of the Visual Novel? I think more speculation on more lowkey characters is always fun personally, so why don't they get given the time of day?
Imagine a time-travelling based moveset for Okabe Rintaro, that would be absolutely sick.

 

[GoodGrief741]

like, good grief, grow up.

Nah imma keep being immature

 

[DevaAshera]

Saber would get hate for so many different reasons that it's not even funny:

Visual novels aren't real games? Check.
Debuted in an h-game? Check.
Gatcha is evil? Check.
Anime swordsmen? Check.
"Literally who" in the west? Check.
No mainline games on Nintendo consoles? Check.

Her reveal would create meltdowns in possibly every online Smash community and tbh, I kinda want to see it.

It would be interesting to see lol
Don't forget the people that would assume her origin was the Fate/stay night anime without even checking since the original Visual Novel never got released outside of Japan.
However, Saber does have mainline games on Nintendo consoles..kinda.
While she's not the protagonist (she's only a protag in Fate/stay night & Fate/zero), Fate/Extella & Fate/Extella Link are both on Nintendo Switch and are in-canon (at least as in-canon anything in the Nasu-verse can be with all its timeline splits and alternate realities) with the rest of the series...the cooking game releasing soon though, Everyday Today’s Menu for the Emiya Family, is certainly a spin-off title though lol

I feel like even though she originates from a VN, the phone game would almost assuredly be what they mainly focus on when talking about her, since, like, it's a lot easier to visualize(no pun intended) compared to some still frames.

That, and... it's basically the icon of the franchise now. That game on its own rakes in billions a year. It has to be one of the biggest cash cows of my generation.

Nah, I'd say when it comes to visualizing her, for a moveset idea, the best sources would be the Fate/Extella games, the anime, and the few fighting games she's appeared in along with the limited number of attacks present in FGO..pretty much in that order.

Yeah, Fate/Grand Order is successful and rakes in the money, though Fire Emblem Heroes is kinda doing the same thing for its series..so yeah. While I hate the gacha mechanics and low percentages to pull Servants, the game is still fun..and I mean that for both of those games lol

 

[Knight Dude]

Funnily enough, my team includes Terry and King as well.

I just can't find a third one I really like.

You're a good dude Swamp.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I feel like even though she originates from a VN, the phone game would almost assuredly be what they mainly focus on when talking about her, since, like, it's a lot easier to visualize(no pun intended) compared to some still frames.

Yeah but Sakurai's been giving history lessons when showing off the DLC.

Which means Smash's good boys and girls will get quite the surprise for Saber's showcase.

 

[Shroob]

I don't really get why both Phoenix Wright and Danganronpa get a pass for being potential Visual Novel reps, but others don't really get the time of day. And this is coming from someone who's most wanted has indeed been Phoenix Wright for several years!
I don't play much Visual Novels (the entire Ace Attorney franchise and Steins;Gate are the extent of my knowledge), but is it because of the interactivity of the Visual Novel? I think more speculation on more lowkey characters is always fun personally, so why don't they get given the time of day?
Imagine a time-travelling based moveset for Okabe Rintaro, that would be absolutely sick.

Lowkey, I dunno how many people even realize Phoenix Wright is actually a visual novel.

Most people I've talked to on places on Reddit or Gamefaqs consider it moreso a Point and Click adventure of all things rofl, it's only AFTER you tell them it's a Visual Novel that they realize it.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

If Geno can perform timed hits, they might as well disable the character in online. I already struggle to learn the timing for Alolan Whip, because it's different every match.
Geno will most likely be a standard zoner if he gets in. Just give him some sound effects and visuals from SMRPG and I think most fans would be happy.

I'd be surprised if they take online into consideration when designing characters, it's pretty clear that it's not a part of the game that's a priority to them. While timed hits would be more difficult to pull off online than anything else, things like command inputs and tippers can already be troublesome with how terrible the online is, so a core mechanic being bad online would be nothing new.

 

[DevaAshera]

I don't really get why both Phoenix Wright and Danganronpa get a pass for being potential Visual Novel reps, but others don't really get the time of day. And this is coming from someone who's most wanted has indeed been Phoenix Wright for several years!
I don't play much Visual Novels (the entire Ace Attorney franchise and Steins;Gate are the extent of my knowledge), but is it because of the interactivity of the Visual Novel? I think more speculation on more lowkey characters is always fun personally, so why don't they get given the time of day?
Imagine a time-travelling based moveset for Okabe Rintaro, that would be absolutely sick.

If I had to guess, I'd say its due to Visual Novels not being the most popular genre in the West, outside of those two series, its popularity is almost exclusively in Japan.

Yeah but Sakurai's been giving history lessons when showing off the DLC.

Which means Smash's good boys and girls will get quite the surprise for Saber's showcase.

Oh yeah, and considering Fate is only massively popular in Japan, I could see him giving just such a history lesson for the series lol
"Good boys and girls don't play the original PC release."
For real though, Sakurai would probably not even mention the original VN having ero elements and focus entirely on the PS2 version that has been the only version they've re-released (even on PC, replacing the original essentially).

 

[DarthEnderX]

I had a bit of bias since I legit wanted Byleth and they were the only character aside from Joker I got legit hyped for (though I still liked all of the others too).

I REALLY didn't want another FE character, so I was behind all the haters.

But his reaction was either A. Super crappy and manipulative if it was faked or B. Super cowardly if he was faking it being faked.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't really get why both Phoenix Wright and Danganronpa get a pass for being potential Visual Novel reps, but others don't really get the time of day. And this is coming from someone who's most wanted has indeed been Phoenix Wright for several years!
I don't play much Visual Novels (the entire Ace Attorney franchise and Steins;Gate are the extent of my knowledge), but is it because of the interactivity of the Visual Novel? I think more speculation on more lowkey characters is always fun personally, so why don't they get given the time of day?
Imagine a time-travelling based moveset for Okabe Rintaro, that would be absolutely sick.

It's probably because most visual novels don't really have much in the vein of gameplay or action that can inspire a moveset. The ones that do get discussion are the ones that have unique gameplay loops, action sequences as part of the story, or both. (And honestly I think VN characters being considered is in large part due to Phoenix's inclusion in UMvC3 opening people up to him and other characters in the genre being grandfathered through that "clause" in speculation).

Like, I love Steins;Gate, but I don't think you can make a whole moveset for Okarin even if you base it around time traveling.

 

[DevaAshera]

I REALLY didn't want another FE character, so I was behind all the haters.

But his reaction was either A. Super crappy and manipulative if it was faked or B. Super cowardly if he was faking it being faked.

I can understand..its part of why I really didn't like that they decided to make Chrom an echo since I was like 'you KNOW a new Fire Emblem is coming out, right?'
Honestly though, I still firmly believe that if not for 'Everyone Is Here', it wouldn't have been an issue since then Lucina and Roy would have been cut and Chrom likely not added, leaving just Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin, and Byleth..which I don't feel is too many.

 

[Cosmic77]

The "timed hits gimmick" always felt like more of a thing for a Rhythm Heaven character than Geno.

Honestly, I don't expect anything like that for Geno. All Mario RPGs have implemented timed hits, and I feel like people are adding a gimmick for the sake of it.

 

[osby]

I don't really get why both Phoenix Wright and Danganronpa get a pass for being potential Visual Novel reps, but others don't really get the time of day. And this is coming from someone who's most wanted has indeed been Phoenix Wright for several years!
I don't play much Visual Novels (the entire Ace Attorney franchise and Steins;Gate are the extent of my knowledge), but is it because of the interactivity of the Visual Novel? I think more speculation on more lowkey characters is always fun personally, so why don't they get given the time of day?
Imagine a time-travelling based moveset for Okabe Rintaro, that would be absolutely sick.

Smash fans' standards are significantly lower for games they are familiar with. That's why you rarely see "anime swordsmen" complaint being used against characters that old fans are more accustomed to, like Dante, Isaac, or Lloyd.

Western fans know Ace Attorney from memes and such, so it usually gets a pass.

 

[Shroob]

Smash fans' standards are significantly lower for games they are familiar with. That's why you rarely see "anime swordsmen" complaint being used against characters that old fans are more accustomed to, like Dante, Isaac, or Lloyd.

Western fans know Ace Attorney from memes and such, so it usually gets a pass.

Ironically, until long after Apollo Justice, I never even knew what a visual novel was, nor had I ever heard the term before.


When I wondered what kind of game Ace Attorney was, I thought it was moreso like Monkey Island or those old Freddie Fish/Putt Putt games.

 

[osby]

Don't forget the people that would assume her origin was the Fate/stay night anime without even checking since the original Visual Novel never got released outside of Japan.
However, Saber does have mainline games on Nintendo consoles..kinda.
While she's not the protagonist (she's only a protag in Fate/stay night & Fate/zero), Fate/Extella & Fate/Extella Link are both on Nintendo Switch and are in-canon (at least as in-canon anything in the Nasu-verse can be with all its timeline splits and alternate realities) with the rest of the series...the cooking game releasing soon though, Everyday Today’s Menu for the Emiya Family, is certainly a spin-off title though lol

I see EXTRA-verse as a spin-off of the original visual novel but I get where you're coming from.

Also, this reminds me of this guy who was hell-bent on Joker not being a video game character because his game was "too anime" or something like that.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Western fans know Ace Attorney from memes and such, so it usually gets a pass.

Ace Attorney gets a pass because whatever it takes to get Cornered into Smash is worth it.

 

[Mr. Robotto]

Lowkey, I dunno how many people even realize Phoenix Wright is actually a visual novel.

Most people I've talked to on places on Reddit or Gamefaqs consider it moreso a Point and Click adventure of all things rofl, it's only AFTER you tell them it's a Visual Novel that they realize it.

Yeah, true. I mean, it's a story-based game with mostly static images that you progress by clicking through text after all. So it's a VN in my book. It's really an eye-opener for many people lmao.

If I had to guess, I'd say its due to Visual Novels not being the most popular genre in the West, outside of those two series, its popularity is almost exclusively in Japan.

Oh yeah, and considering Fate is only massively popular in Japan, I could see him giving just such a history lesson for the series lol
"Good boys and girls don't play the original PC release."
For real though, Sakurai would probably not even mention the original VN having ero elements and focus entirely on the PS2 version that has been the only version they've re-released (even on PC, replacing the original essentially).

I visit the Japanese side of Smash speculation sometimes, and it's really staggering to see the big difference of popularity of characters like Saber between the East and West. Talking about East and West, it's funny because they both think the other side matters more in terms of character popularity. Japan thinks overseas opinion is more important (hence, we get characters like Ridley and Banjo&Kazooie), while over here people think a character's popularity is more important over in Japan. It's just funny to see people get to the same (but albeit, different) conclusion.

It's probably because most visual novels don't really have much in the vein of gameplay or action that can inspire a moveset. The ones that do get discussion are the ones that have unique gameplay loops, action sequences as part of the story, or both. (And honestly I think VN characters being considered is in large part due to Phoenix's inclusion in UMvC3 opening people up to him and other characters in the genre being grandfathered through that "clause" in speculation).

Like, I love Steins;Gate, but I don't think you can make a whole moveset for Okarin even if you base it around time traveling.

I only really used Steins;Gate as an example, since it's one of the VNs I'm more familiar with. But yeah, I absolutely agree, creating movesets for Visual Novel characters is hard, no doubt. Even harder for Visual Novels where your POV is the main character's, like Steins;Gate.
But hey, I'd like to think that nothing is really impossible for Sakurai. That madman gave movesets to characters I'd never knew would even work in a fighting game. Only after their inclusion I'm always like "Oh wait, this moveset absolutely makes sense for this character!".