Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

What about Kite or Haseo from the .hack games? Iirc .hack started as an anime, but Kite and Haseo are exclusive to video games. Would they be considered a gray area?

They may be, but I'm not too sure about that since I don't know the series.

This also begs the question about whether or not characters like Chase McCain also fit the grey area.

 

[Opossum]

Miku is basically in the same gray area as Clippy, which is funny to think about.

"It seems like you're trying to write a Smash Bros Invitation. Would you like some help?"

 

[Door Key Pig]

You think if Splatoon 2, Switch's bestseller and extremely Japan popular or whatever, can only get 2 years of DLC support, there could be at least one other Fighter's Pass for Ultimate, which also sold really darn well? Maybe that would be the limit? Obviously they didn't do much DLC support for say, Odyssey, but that's a different game with the possibility of just getting a sequel. Seeing as "Everyone is Here" among other roster choices makes this very special, I'd have to wonder if maybe there'd be a at least one more round of characters before finishing up (maybe including Echos/semi clones or fighters that don't need a stage to still make a lot of people happy); a compromise if further supporting the game is not possible, while still further embellishing the roster just one more time, perhaps in characters that were so close to making it prior. I mean, maybe the fancy CGI trailers for the Fighter's Pass suggest Nintendo could put a bit more monetary resources into Smash if they wanted, but I guess it depends on how well the Pass and its characters sell.

 

[Nquoid]

If Nintendo is planning on maxing out those 16 slots for new fighters, starting with the third party characters was definitely the smartest choice. Sales will be at their absolute best, so despite the fact that some degree of profit sharing will have to happen with these characters, they'll probay sell enough to make up for it.

Then they could do a 1st party pass with more niche/fan favourite characters for the hardcore fanbase still playing a year out from release. Then finish with echoes which can probably be handled by a skeleton staff.

I don't think its likely we get another pass, but also can't imagine them going to the third party well beyond this one.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

You think if Splatoon 2, Switch's bestseller and extremely Japan popular or whatever, can only get 2 years of DLC support, there could be at least one other Fighter's Pass for Ultimate, which also sold really darn well? Maybe that would be the limit? Obviously they didn't do much DLC support for say, Odyssey, but that's a different game with the possibility of just getting a sequel. Seeing as "Everyone is Here" among other roster choices makes this very special, I'd have to wonder if maybe there'd be a at least one more round of characters before finishing up (maybe including Echos/semi clones or fighters that don't need a stage to still make a lot of people happy); a compromise if further supporting the game is not possible, while still further embellishing the roster just one more time, perhaps in characters that were so close to making it prior. I mean, maybe the fancy CGI trailers for the Fighter's Pass suggest Nintendo could put a bit more monetary resources into Smash if they wanted, but I guess it depends on how well the Pass and its characters sell.

I have a sneaking suspicion that they're working on Splatoon 3, myself.

That'll focus on some kind of apocalypse with whether it's Pearl the Destroyer running the Splatter-dome or Comrade Marina's Glorious Regime being determined by the last Splatfest.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a sneaking suspicion that they're working on Splatoon 3, myself.

That'll focus on some kind of apocalypse with whether it's Pearl the Destroyer running the Splatter-dome or Comrade Marina's Glorious Regime being determined by the last Splatfest.

That’s what happened with Splatoon 1, yeah.

 

[Door Key Pig]

If Nintendo is planning on maxing out those 16 slots for new fighters, starting with the third party characters was definitely the smartest choice. Sales will be at their absolute best, so despite the fact that some degree of profit sharing will have to happen with these characters, they'll probay sell enough to make up for it.

Then they could do a 1st party pass with more niche/fan favourite characters for the hardcore fanbase still playing a year out from release. Then finish with echoes which can probably be handled by a skeleton staff.

I don't think its likely we get another pass, but also can't imagine them going to the third party well beyond this one.

A separate pass and echo pass would be a neat way to round off a bunch of fan requests and stuff, though saying that I must also remember the content and its amount we have already Doing say, Geno after they already put in K Rool, Ridley and Banjo would be impressive, but I myself only have a couple characters I want the most.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Miku is basically in the same gray area as Clippy, which is funny to think about.

"It seems like you're trying to write a Smash Bros Invitation. Would you like some help?"

If characters from computer applications are eligible to be in Smash, then I'm about to start campaigning for the Duolingo owl to come to Smash. The real reason Marth and Roy have English voices now is because they used Duolingo and Cloud has clearly been avoiding his lessons, so somebody has to come in to make him stop ignoring his notifications

 

[DarthEnderX]

Except... being a non-video game character is really the only thing that makes him unable to fit in.

True. But it's also the only thing that matters.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Miku is basically in the same gray area as Clippy, which is funny to think about.

"It seems like you're trying to write a Smash Bros Invitation. Would you like some help?"

it's kind of confusing for miku since she's not a video game character but rather computer software/made for song making

 

[StormC]

You think if Splatoon 2, Switch's bestseller and extremely Japan popular or whatever, can only get 2 years of DLC support, there could be at least one other Fighter's Pass for Ultimate, which also sold really darn well? Maybe that would be the limit? Obviously they didn't do much DLC support for say, Odyssey, but that's a different game with the possibility of just getting a sequel. Seeing as "Everyone is Here" among other roster choices makes this very special, I'd have to wonder if maybe there'd be a at least one more round of characters before finishing up (maybe including Echos/semi clones or fighters that don't need a stage to still make a lot of people happy); a compromise if further supporting the game is not possible, while still further embellishing the roster just one more time, perhaps in characters that were so close to making it prior. I mean, maybe the fancy CGI trailers for the Fighter's Pass suggest Nintendo could put a bit more monetary resources into Smash if they wanted, but I guess it depends on how well the Pass and its characters sell.

Splatoon is basically a GAAS, it’s designed to continuously get updates as it was launched fairly barebones. It’s not really comparable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

True. But it's also the only thing that matters.

It's not really. Licensing is the only thing that outright matters. The rest is far more personal opinion and completely debatable if there's a real issue or not. Ignoring the actual reason they can't get in(they're impossible due to massive licensing) is honestly kind of ridiculous when there's never been a single reason given otherwise that's official. Him being a non-video game character obviously is something of a factor, but it's put way too much importance on that when licensing is still the actual main hurdle as is. Tons of characters have to deal with this hurdle alone. There's no questioning that there's a lot of game icons before you have to worry about a non-game character, but it doesn't make many less of an icon, really.

--------------------

Speaking of so-called issues, the slippery slope of allowing one non-game character is silly to even bring up. It doesn't make other characters more likely whatsoever. It just means their chances are closer to 1% at minimum by default. Other things that come up could push them in a better light. Sure, it means more characters are eligible. It does not mean they have a reasonable chance to ever expect them chosen. That in itself is a fallacy to expect that to happen. Realistically, if he chooses a non-game character, expecting any more beyond that one is not looking at the full picture. That one character is something of a special occasion, not a key to open a door. The Pandora's Box part is more that he'll get a ridiculous amount of requests, and that alone is worth avoiding the idea of a non-game character. He already has gotten more than he can handle, to the point he made it clear the FP was completely chosen fully, to try and stop the constant twitter requests. It's also good to let the fanbase know the situation too, of course. But things can have more than one reason.

 

[GoodGrief741]

5th quetion
with all this non video game talk, What would you reaction be if Android 21 joins smash bros

Absolutely not that's a DBZ character.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If Nintendo is planning on maxing out those 16 slots for new fighters, starting with the third party characters was definitely the smartest choice. Sales will be at their absolute best, so despite the fact that some degree of profit sharing will have to happen with these characters, they'll probay sell enough to make up for it.

Then they could do a 1st party pass with more niche/fan favourite characters for the hardcore fanbase still playing a year out from release. Then finish with echoes which can probably be handled by a skeleton staff.

I don't think its likely we get another pass, but also can't imagine them going to the third party well beyond this one.

They could do indies on a subsequent fighter pass but the question is then who? Do they go for a Western one and take on the translation process or do they do a Japanese one?

Is Quote still an indie character or is it a Steve situation with him?

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

They could do indies on a subsequent fighter pass but the question is then who? Do they go for a Western one and take on the translation process or do they do a Japanese one?

sounds interesting

 

[Nquoid]

They could do indies on a subsequent fighter pass but the question is then who? Do they go for a Western one and take on the translation process or do they do a Japanese one?

Is Quote still an indie character or is it a Steve situation with him?

I'd query that in my hypothetical they'd still have to license the characters from the indie devs, but also doubt that they would be quite as demanding as Square, Microsoft and Atlus in terms of compensation. But if the aim was to reduce the cost, then 1st party would make the most sense, with indie being a slight step above.

 

[KillerCage]

Is Quote still an indie character or is it a Steve situation with him?

I still consider Quote an indie character; it's just that he has been getting around thanks to his current owner, Nicalis. I think he's more to Shantae as she is owned by Wayfoward (who I view as a indie developer despite some high-profile works such as Ducktales Remastered.) Steve is owned by Microsoft who is not remotely an indie developer. Yes Minecraft was created by Mojang, but Mojang now works for Microsoft.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The last thing I'll say about the idea of non-video game characters getting into the Smash series, is that the moment it happens is the moment the series jumps the shark.

There are plenty of characters available to include in Smash before a non-gaming character is included. Smash Bros. is a gaming crossover. Sakurai has already shot down the idea of Goku, Spongebob, Iron Man, and others. I'd take that as close to a "0% chance" as one can get. It's not just a "Anything can happen! He's a troll!" thing, it's that it flies directly against the design philosophy of Smash Ultimate, which is to be the biggest crossover in gaming history.

With two slots left, and with several top-of-the-line series to pull from: Resident Evil, Tekken, Devil May Cry, Tales, Minecraft, Crash Bandicoot, Ace Attorney, Ninja Gaiden, King of Fighters, Mortal Kombat, Monster Hunter...and Nintendo series that could receive newcomers in the future, like Xenoblade, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, ARMS...there is quite simply no reason to entertain the idea as legitimately possible besides the occasional, "Heh, wouldn't it be funny if a manga character made it into Smash? The fans would be seething!"

Not saying that anybody is actually thinking it's going to happen anytime soon, but the logic of adding a non-video game character to a game that is striving toward being the "biggest crossover in gaming history" isn't there. It would be like Mickey Mouse suddenly appearing in Avenger's Endgame for no other reason than, "Oh wow! That's a curveball! Look at how surprised it made everyone!"

It goes against the design of the game, especially when there are still high quality characters and series to pull from.

 

[GoodGrief741]

They could do indies on a subsequent fighter pass but the question is then who? Do they go for a Western one and take on the translation process or do they do a Japanese one?

Is Quote still an indie character or is it a Steve situation with him?

Quote is absolutely still an indie. He didn't get bought out by anybody.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Smash started as a Nintendo All-Stars cross over. It jumped the shark the second it allowed 3rd party content, let alone playable characters in.

It jumps the shark easily enough to this day. Saying it suddenly has a limit when it really doesn't overall is silly. It's a character-driven game. Extremely popular characters help make the game evolve. It constantly evolves by jumping the shark.

Basically? That's not honestly a very good argument to make. It ignores that it did it already.

To help clarify a bit of why it's constantly changed;

Smash 64 is a Nintendo-All Stars Crossover game.
Melee dropped the Nintendo-All Stars bit. It just happened to not be possible for a 3rd party in. The only two ever offered were asked when the game way too far in development(Sonic and Snake), making them an impossible option.
Brawl started with 2 3rd parties.
4 actually started to add things like custom moves, Rage, and split it among two games instead of one.
Ultimate started to have multiple 3rd parties per franchise, a completely new thing.

The games simply evolve by breaking limitations all the time. Nobody is saying a non-game 3rd party is realistically happening, but there's really no stigma that doing so would suddenly change the game's overall aspect, a major crossover that continues to evolve past its limits over and over again. Something that could jump the shark fully is to actually completely turn the game into a 3D playstyle, which would eliminate a lot of its ease of getting into. It also jumped the gun by adding Input Commands back with Marth to a small degree, then again with Ryu and Ken, where the input commands are far heftier. Though this wouldn't be nearly as much as a complete overhaul of the gameplay, which has never happened at all. We've gained and lost many things, but the gameplay has stayed extremely similar over and over. You feeling it'd jump the shark more than it should? That's fair. But we should not pretend it never jumped the shark before. Of course it did. It's just something series do to evolve. A natural thing.

 

[krokotopia101]

DRAGON BALL HAS HAD GAMES MADE BY BANDAI NAMCO. Why the [BLEEP] did Sakurai namedrop Goku, even though Dragon Ball FighterZ was made by Bandai Namco in the first place?

By that logic I can't wait for Mickey Mouse and his gang to join Smash because of their game made by Square Enix (and Disney). Yeah was impossible getting Cloud here, but see what I'm getting at? Since we're jumping sharks here, I REEEEEALY can't wait for Mickey Mouse to join the roster.....

 

[Icedragonadam]

The confirmation that Eight was one of the four Hero alts chosen because he's the most well known hero of Dragon Quest in the west, definitely hurts the likes of Scorpion and Doom Guy IMO, becuase it definitely looks like the 3rd party DLC characters need to have some recognizably worldwide. So yeah, Crash is the most likely 2nd western character if there is another one IMO(I doubt there will be another Western character considering the difficulty Sakurai had with communicating with Grant Kirkhope for that remix).

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Here's my 6th question
witch non video game character is the most likely(IF we ever get one that is)
(there's 3 options)
1:Hatsune Miku(Vocaloid)
2: Geralt of Rivia(The Witcher)
3:Kevin Keene(Captain N: The Game Master)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah um

If you really want Nintendo characters to fight non video game characters so badly go play MUGEN

(Apologies if this somehow comes across as flaming it is not my intention whatsoever)

 

[TheCJBrine]

(I doubt there will be another Western character considering the difficulty Sakurai had with communicating with Grant Kirkhope for that remix).

Did he really have much difficulty? I remember him saying he was hesitant because of the language barrier, but they seemed like it wasn't that hard for them.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The confirmation that Eight was one of the four Hero alts chosen because he's the most well known hero of Dragon Quest in the west, definitely hurts the likes of Scorpion and Doom Guy IMO, becuase it definitely looks like the 3rd party DLC characters need to have some recognizably worldwide. So yeah, Crash is the most likely 2nd western character if there is another one IMO(I doubt there will be another Western character considering the difficulty Sakurai had with communicating with Grant Kirkhope for that remix).

Actually, Mortal Kombat and Doom are still well known over there. Many of these games aren't sold on consoles, but PC instead. PC is still a huge aspect of gaming there, so it's not really a problem with iconicness specifically. They're still worldwide known characters.

Of course, it doesn't mean it sells super well in the East either, so that could be a factor. It's no Startropics, which wasn't released in the East and all. So even if it has a small fanbase in Japan, its lack of release is a pretty big deal.

 

[PeridotGX]

The "78 day" theory better be true, because I just spent half an hour making a meme that will only work if it's true.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If Hero was dropping soon, would his release date change to “coming soon” or whatever it said shortly before Joker was dropped? It says Summer 2019 still

 

[StormC]

Actually, Mortal Kombat and Doom are still well known over there. Many of these games aren't sold on consoles, but PC instead. PC is still a huge aspect of gaming there, so it's not really a problem with iconicness specifically. They're still worldwide known characters.

Of course, it doesn't mean it sells super well in the East either, so that could be a factor. It's no Startropics, which wasn't released in the East and all. So even if it has a small fanbase in Japan, its lack of release is a pretty big deal.

Mortal Kombat is banned from release in Japan. Japanese Steam doesn't even sell it.

 

[Captain Fun]

Actually, Mortal Kombat and Doom are still well known over there. Many of these games aren't sold on consoles, but PC instead. PC is still a huge aspect of gaming there, so it's not really a problem with iconicness specifically. They're still worldwide known characters.

Of course, it doesn't mean it sells super well in the East either, so that could be a factor. It's no Startropics, which wasn't released in the East and all. So even if it has a small fanbase in Japan, its lack of release is a pretty big deal.

Pretty sure you can’t buy MK11 on Steam in Japan. Most MK games aren’t sold there in any form, though I don’t doubt that it’s known among older FG enthusiasts.

Edit: ninja’d

 

[OrpheusTelos]

If Hero was dropping soon, would his release date change to “coming soon” or whatever it said shortly before Joker was dropped? It says Summer 2019 still

I'm not sure. I think the only reason they did that for Joker was because he had an April release date and they probably saw no reason to keep it as that when they reached April. If Hero doesn't drop on July 6th, that debunks the 78 day theory and we're gonna have to wait until at most August

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mortal Kombat is banned from release in Japan. Japanese Steam doesn't even sell it.

PC is not "Steam". Those are different things.

Pretty sure you can’t buy MK11 on Steam in Japan. Most MK games aren’t sold there in any form, though I don’t doubt that it’s known among older FG enthusiasts.

Edit: ninja’d

Again, PC isn't Steam. They're different things. I've already talked to someone who buys Mortal Kombat games in Japan, just not on consoles.

Venus of the Desert Bloom was talking about how the series is played there to me, but I might be misremembering. Point stands that PC gaming is a separate thing from Steam, which is something more akin to an emulation program in a way. Not literally, but you can buy separate PC games as a hard copy unrelated to Steam. Steam =/= PC.

To clarify more, PC gaming doesn't have the same restrictions that other consoles do. They allow for more because it's not a video game console. At least that's how I was taught it, so again, I could be off on this. But I do remember it being sold outside of consoles(Steam is pretty much close to a console as it's mainly for games only, not a computer that does multiple things and can be used for gaming).

 

[GoodGrief741]

Smash started as a Nintendo All-Stars cross over. It jumped the shark the second it allowed 3rd party content, let alone playable characters in.

It jumps the shark easily enough to this day. Saying it suddenly has a limit when it really doesn't overall is silly. It's a character-driven game. Extremely popular characters help make the game evolve. It constantly evolves by jumping the shark.

Basically? That's not honestly a very good argument to make. It ignores that it did it already.

To help clarify a bit of why it's constantly changed;

Smash 64 is a Nintendo-All Stars Crossover game.
Melee dropped the Nintendo-All Stars bit. It just happened to not be possible for a 3rd party in. The only two ever offered were asked when the game way too far in development(Sonic and Snake), making them an impossible option.
Brawl started with 2 3rd parties.
4 actually started to add things like custom moves, Rage, and split it among two games instead of one.
Ultimate started to have multiple 3rd parties per franchise, a completely new thing.

The games simply evolve by breaking limitations all the time. Nobody is saying a non-game 3rd party is realistically happening, but there's really no stigma that doing so would suddenly change the game's overall aspect, a major crossover that continues to evolve past its limits over and over again. Something that could jump the shark fully is to actually completely turn the game into a 3D playstyle, which would eliminate a lot of its ease of getting into. It also jumped the gun by adding Input Commands back with Marth to a small degree, then again with Ryu and Ken, where the input commands are far heftier. Though this wouldn't be nearly as much as a complete overhaul of the gameplay, which has never happened at all. We've gained and lost many things, but the gameplay has stayed extremely similar over and over. You feeling it'd jump the shark more than it should? That's fair. But we should not pretend it never jumped the shark before. Of course it did. It's just something series do to evolve. A natural thing.

I don't think you know what jumping the shark means.

The "78 day" theory better be true, because I just spent half an hour making a meme that will only work if it's true.

What's this theory?

 

[StormC]

PC is not "Steam". Those are different things.


Again, PC isn't Steam. They're different things. I've already talked to someone who buys Mortal Kombat games in Japan, just not on consoles.

Venus of the Desert Bloom was talking about how the series is played there to me, but I might be misremembering. Point stands that PC gaming is a separate thing from Steam, which is something more akin to an emulation program in a way. Not literally, but you can buy separate PC games as a hard copy unrelated to Steam. Steam =/= PC.

Emulation and piracy is very uncommon in Japan. But regardless, Mortal Kombat games have been banned from sale in general, not just on PC or Steam. So the chance that there is a large active scene or fanbase for the series is highly doubtful.

 

[PeridotGX]

I don't think you know what jumping the shark means.

What's this theory?

basically there were 78 days between Plant and Joker's release. Some people are taking this as a theory, and if it holds true than Hero will be released tommorow. I don't belive it, but whatever.

and oops, I meant to post my original post in the Social.

 

[GoodGrief741]

basically there were 78 days between Plant and Joker's release. Some people are taking this as a theory, and if it holds true than Hero will be released tommorow. I don't belive it, but whatever.

and oops, I meant to post my original post in the Social.

Hey, are people trying out to become the latest fighter in ARMS?

Because they sure are stretching.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think you know what jumping the shark means.

Oh, I quite do. Adding third parties to a pure Nintendo crossover(which it was supposed to be, and many didn't even realize Melee no longer cared about that) is definitely it. They went well beyond the limitations the series created in the first place.

3rd parties even getting in still has hate to this day because it went well beyond what people think it should be. Nintendo purists exist. I've seen it time and time again. People need to realize what jumping the shark even means. It's taking something that it was "originally" and going in a rather extreme direction at that point. There's really no denying that adding 3rd parties was a massive change to a Nintendo-only crossover. Besides, even during Melee, Banjo(for an example) was still considered under Nintendo. There's a reason people think all 3rd parties should have hefty ties to Nintendo, when that's not really the actual case of how it's done. The stigma absolutely exists.

Emulation and piracy is very uncommon in Japan. But regardless, Mortal Kombat games have been banned from sale in general, not just on PC or Steam. So the chance that there is a large active scene or fanbase for the series is highly doubtful.

Actually, I've been reading about it still having a lot of fans, including the games being sold there. To be fair, I never once heard it was unable to be sold on PC, and quite the opposite in fact. Could you cite that one? I mean, Venus'll clear it up soon enough, but I'm interested in the source regardless.

 

[StormC]

If they were confident in July I think they would have said "July 2019" for Hero. My guess is they put in "Summer" because they're not sure if it will make it to July and could be in early August. I wouldn't expect Hero before the 20th or so, personally.

 

[BlueMonk]

Hey, are people trying out to become the latest fighter in ARMS?

Because they sure are stretching.

A part of the theory is also that there was 78 days between release and plant as well. It looks a bit more likely to be a thing when that is included. Personally, I'm not sure if I want to jump on yet.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Oh, I quite do. Adding third parties to a pure Nintendo crossover(which it was supposed to be, and many didn't even realize Melee no longer cared about that) is definitely it. They went well beyond the limitations the series created in the first place.

3rd parties even getting in still has hate to this day because it went well beyond what people think it should be. Nintendo purists exist. I've seen it time and time again. People need to realize what jumping the shark even means. It's taking something that it was "originally" and going in a rather extreme direction at that point. There's really no denying that adding 3rd parties was a massive change to a Nintendo-only crossover. Besides, even during Melee, Banjo(for an example) was still considered under Nintendo. There's a reason people think all 3rd parties should have hefty ties to Nintendo, when that's not really the actual case of how it's done. The stigma absolutely exists.


Actually, I've been reading about it still having a lot of fans, including the games being sold there. To be fair, I never once heard it was unable to be sold on PC, and quite the opposite in fact. Could you cite that one? I mean, Venus'll clear it up soon enough, but I'm interested in the source regardless.

That's not what jumping the shark is. Jumping the shark is when something incredibly stupid and baffling happens and that coincides with the start of a drop in quality.