Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

Mortal Kombat alone being banned in Japan really hurts Scorpion's chances in getting in. I don't expect it to happen as a result.

 

[PeridotGX]

Play Banjo-Kazooie and Persona 5. Seriously, do that as soon as possible. Persona 5 is one of the best RPGs that I've ever played (it's up there with Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6, and Final Fantasy 7 for me), and Banjo-Kazooie is one of the best games that I've ever played. (I replayed it recently, and it holds up incredibly well)

I can't speak for which Dragon Quest game you should play, but I'm playing 8 right now and enjoying it.

I want to play P5, I just don't see the point of buying a PS4 pretty much just for one game.

I have been playing Banjo 1 though. Good game, but I haven't gone far yet.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Why is it that Resident Evil is super likely to some people, yet Doom and Mortal Kombat aren't because they're too gory and not aimed for children? Even though they literally had to censor and edit deaths in RE4 and even RE7 in Japan? Japan is not a huge fan of ultraviolence, but that's not to say that it's completely banned and taboo. There are people who enjoy manga such as Berserk after all. Mortal Kombat had a poor footing in Japan also because it was dumped there without even being translated. Eventually it was ceased to be released in Japan due to the crazy amount of things NRS would have to censor. But Mortal Kombat X and Mortal Kombat 11 have very high reviews and imports via Amazon Japan and elsewhere.

When it comes to the gore, Scorpion appeared in Injustice, and so did Sub Zero and Raiden for Injustice 2, all without gore and they were completely fine. The ignorance towards Mortal Kombat's gore is quite silly. The crazy amounts of gore are only really present during fatalities, and Scorpion's famous fatality isn't even that gory which can easily translate into Smash (certain final smashes have you explode if you're at kill percentage for example)

It'd be a huge gamble to add Scorpion, but there's nothing saying that he's 100% disconfirmed. If Sakurai and Nintendo are aiming to include characters who are iconic and have some weight to them, there's nothing wrong with choosing Scorpion.

Mortal Kombat is banned in Japan. While Doom isn't, it's not popular at all. Both are also Western game franchises.

Resident Evil is a Japanese franchise made by a developer already in Smash and unlike the former two is popular worldwide. The fact that there was censorship in RE proves that people there want to play the games even censored; that can't be said for MK or Doom.

I want to play P5, I just don't see the point of buying a PS4 pretty much just for one game.

I have been playing Banjo 1 though. Good game, but I haven't gone far yet.

You'll probably find more great games on PS4. Sony this generation has had the same focus as Nintendo: great games. I don't know what your tastes are in games but I'm sure there's something to recommend.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Sorry for asking but I don't really feel like searching through this thread to see when and why this discussion on Mortal Combat and Doom being highly possible DLC candidates sprouted from. Just wondering why this is such a huge conversation right now. Neither of those franchises really seem to match the aesthetic of smash, imo.

To me, it's because of Banjo. People see Banjo, the first western owned character in Smash, and assume that we'll get a deluge of western content. Personally, I see Banjo as an exception, not the norm.

Though, for Doom, people think Bethesda is hinting at it. I don't think they are because if they were, Nintendo wouldn't be having any of it.

 

[Megadoomer]

I want to play P5, I just don't see the point of buying a PS4 pretty much just for one game.

I have been playing Banjo 1 though. Good game, but I haven't gone far yet.

Persona 5 is also on the PS3, if that helps.

 

[TheGuv]

I'm the only one that doesn't want a Ultimate port?

I just feel like it will be boring to get a port, people excpet 13 character in a port but they'll add 2-3 at best and no DLC...and proably World of Light again without anything new.
Dunno, it just seems uninteresting to me to wait 7-8 years to see Ultimate again.

 

[StormC]

I'm the only one that doesn't want a Ultimate port?

I just feel like it will be boring to get a port, people excpet 13 character in a port but they'll add 2-3 at best and no DLC...and proably World of Light again without anything new.
Dunno, it just seems uninteresting to me to wait 7-8 years to see Ultimate again.

Why would they add less characters than they did while having to recreate every single veteran? I don't see 13, but 8-10 seems perfectly feasible. Nintendo knows characters are what sells Smash.

 

[TheGuv]

Why would they add less characters than they did while having to recreate every single veteran? I don't see 13, but 8-10 seems perfectly feasible. Nintendo knows characters are what sells Smash.

There's already 75 characters, they wont add more than 2 and it's still the same game i've played 7-8 years ago, i literally can't get hyped for the idea of an Ultimate+, no matter how characters they add.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I feel like if we are getting another western game in Smash, it's going to be something with more eastern appeal like Undertale or Skyrim. Right now I can't see Doom or Mortal Kombat happening, especially with the latter not even being released in Japan. It's kind of weird that people default to Doom for the Bethesda rep when Skyrim has been much more successful in the east and it's the game Todd Howard is notorious for pushing on everyone, so I actually think Dovahkiin is more likely imo

 

[StormC]

they wont add more than 2

But why? Why would they do this? You haven't given me a reason besides "they have a lot of characters." That isn't a reason. Nintendo and Sakurai know the characters sell Smash, they market Smash based on characters, those trailers get millions of views, they have an entire banner celebrating the character additions. This is reminding me of people saying Smash Switch would just be a Wii U port with Inklings, Ice Climbers, and Wolf. It's completely unfounded.

i literally can't get hyped for the idea of an Ultimate+, no matter how characters they add.

My view is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Ultimate's core gameplay is very solid and they can continue to add new modes and other goodies. This would let them save time and resources on bringing back the whole cast while still adding more content: 8-10 characters, 10-15 stages, new modes, other tweaks, what else does Smash need really? They don't need to reinvent the wheel at this point. The amount of people who would want radical gameplay changes are completely outweighed by those that want to have their favorite characters kept, especially after Everyone Is Here.

 

[PeridotGX]

You'll probably find more great games on PS4. Sony this generation has had the same focus as Nintendo: great games. I don't know what your tastes are in games but I'm sure there's something to recommend.

I'm a kid who isn't even old enough to get a job, I don't really have much money. Even if I did have the money, I don't know if a PS4/3 would be my first priority.

 

[TheGuv]

But why? Why would they do this? You haven't given me a reason besides "they have a lot of characters." That isn't a reason. Nintendo and Sakurai know the characters sell Smash, they market Smash based on characters, those trailers get millions of views, they have an entire banner celebrating the character additions. This is reminding me of people saying Smash Switch would just be a Wii U port with Inklings, Ice Climbers, and Wolf. It's completely unfounded.



My view is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Ultimate's core gameplay is very solid and they can continue to add new modes and other goodies. This would let them save time and resources on bringing back the whole cast while still adding more content: 8-10 characters, 10-15 stages, new modes, other tweaks, what else does Smash need really? They don't need to reinvent the wheel at this point. The amount of people who would want radical gameplay changes are completely outweighed by those that want to have their favorite characters kept, especially after Everyone Is Here.

Or they can port the characters of Ultimate to Smash 6, a port isn't necesary they can't still make a new game reusing the characters, i dont want an Ultimate+ im so tired of ports.

 

[StormC]

I'm a kid who isn't even old enough to get a job, I don't really have much money. Even if I did have the money, I don't know if a PS4/3 would be my first priority.

Not to pick on you, but I think this adds an interesting wrinkle to something I've thought about ever since Smash 4 DLC: they are going to sell DLC to demographics with disposable income. Smash has a massive fanbase in their 20s/30s, naturally so for such a long-running series, so it makes sense that the DLC characters are: protagonist of an M-rated RPG, heroes from a long-running Japanese gaming series (half of them being from pre-21st century titles) and beloved platforming mascots from the N64 era. You can see a similar trend to Smash 4; Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta don't exactly appeal to the kids.

I remember people argued characters like Steve were more likely as DLC because of wanting to appeal to younger demographics, but I wouldn't be surprised if statistics showed the majority of DLC buyers are adults. I'm sure Nintendo is savvy to this too. That's probably the main reason Joker is in, especially because it seems unlikely for mainline Persona titles to leave Sony systems anytime soon.

Just food for thought.

That said... just put the Banjo games on Switch already please. Microsoft. Nintendo. Anybody who's listening.

 

[Dinoman96]

I feel like if we are getting another western game in Smash, it's going to be something with more eastern appeal like Undertale or Skyrim. Right now I can't see Doom or Mortal Kombat happening, especially with the latter not even being released in Japan. It's kind of weird that people default to Doom for the Bethesda rep when Skyrim has been much more successful in the east and it's the game Todd Howard is notorious for pushing on everyone, so I actually think Dovahkiin is more likely imo

I think Crash Bandicoot is pretty overlooked in that regard. His games were million sellers back in Japan back in the PS1 era.

Granted, N. Sane Trilogy didn't do as well there, but I don't think that erases his past success there. At least he was successful in Japan, whereas guys like DOOM, Rayman or MK never were.

 

[N3ON]

I'm the only one that doesn't want a Ultimate port?

I just feel like it will be boring to get a port, people excpet 13 character in a port but they'll add 2-3 at best and no DLC...and proably World of Light again without anything new.
Dunno, it just seems uninteresting to me to wait 7-8 years to see Ultimate again.

As soon as the roster revamps, I'm floating into the ether. But if they just ported Ultimate every gen with a few new characters and stages, they'd have me hooked forever.

 

[TheGuv]

Well a Ultimate+ would probably mean Switch will be my last gaming console, because there's no game that makes me buy consoles other than Smash and Dragon Quest, kinda sad but i guess the videogame journey ends some day.

 

[StormC]

If you had an Ultimate port with like...

Spring-Man, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Sora, Waluigi, Isaac, Geno, and the obligatory Pokemon/Xenoblade/Fire Emblem characters + 5-6 echo fighters + over a dozen new stages + other new modes + a revamped single player mode, you have a 10 million seller easily, with significantly less budget and time/resources required than Ultimate. Most people, including myself, are so happy with Ultimate they're afraid to see their characters get cut again after Everyone Is Here. It would be a huge win for Nintendo if the Ultimate model was how they kept the gravy train going, at least for the next generation.

(I know some of those characters are a stretch but bear with me here)

 

[TheGuv]

If you had an Ultimate port with like...

Spring-Man, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Sora, Waluigi, Isaac, Geno, and the obligatory Pokemon/Xenoblade/Fire Emblem characters + 5-6 echo fighters + over a dozen new stages + other new modes + a revamped single player mode, you have a 10 million seller easily, with significantly less budget and time/resources required than Ultimate. Most people, including myself, are so happy with Ultimate they're afraid to see their characters get cut again after Everyone Is Here. It would be a huge win for Nintendo if the Ultimate model was how they kept the gravy train going, at least for the next generation.

(I know some of those characters are a stretch but bear with me here)

I don't really care about any of those D-tier Nintendo characters, the only way they'd sell me the game is with like 5-6 iconic 3rd party characters base game ortherwise a hard pass.

 

[StormC]

I don't really care about any of those D-tier Nintendo characters, the only way they'd sell me the game is with like 5-6 iconic 3rd party characters base game ortherwise a hard pass.

Hey.

Dixie is not D-tier!

 

[TheGuv]

Hey.

Dixie is not D-tier!

I don't care about any nintendo character left, all the ones i cared for are there so no nintendo character is going to sell me Ultimate+.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing about an Ultimate port is it means re-licensing all the characters. Sakurai did make it clear he was lucky to get everyone.

Ultimate+ is not very likely. It'd be cool, though.

This is why I hope we get an Echo Pass separately, just to give a few more spots. With just the characters alone.

 

[Nemuresu]

If you had an Ultimate port with like...

Spring-Man, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Sora, Waluigi, Isaac, Geno, and the obligatory Pokemon/Xenoblade/Fire Emblem characters + 5-6 echo fighters + over a dozen new stages + other new modes + a revamped single player mode, you have a 10 million seller easily, with significantly less budget and time/resources required than Ultimate. Most people, including myself, are so happy with Ultimate they're afraid to see their characters get cut again after Everyone Is Here. It would be a huge win for Nintendo if the Ultimate model was how they kept the gravy train going, at least for the next generation.

(I know some of those characters are a stretch but bear with me here)

To be completely honest, I wouldn't expect an Ultimate port with such an amount of characters. Maybe about half of them at most.

 

[Deleted member]

Not to pick on you, but I think this adds an interesting wrinkle to something I've thought about ever since Smash 4 DLC: they are going to sell DLC to demographics with disposable income. Smash has a massive fanbase in their 20s/30s, naturally so for such a long-running series, so it makes sense that the DLC characters are: protagonist of an M-rated RPG, heroes from a long-running Japanese gaming series (half of them being from pre-21st century titles) and beloved platforming mascots from the N64 era. You can see a similar trend to Smash 4; Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta don't exactly appeal to the kids.

I remember people argued characters like Steve were more likely as DLC because of wanting to appeal to younger demographics, but I wouldn't be surprised if statistics showed the majority of DLC buyers are adults. I'm sure Nintendo is savvy to this too. That's probably the main reason Joker is in, especially because it seems unlikely for mainline Persona titles to leave Sony systems anytime soon.

Just food for thought.

That said... just put the Banjo games on Switch already please. Microsoft. Nintendo. Anybody who's listening.

Once you put it this way, it makes Steve less likely than i realized. If anything he made more sense for the base game than DLC once you put it into this perspective.

It also does mean that Mature-leaning or Old School oriented characters seem like no brainers, so characters like Ryu Hayabusa, Crash and Doom Guy seem to benefit from what you seem to be implying. While characters that are more recent may actually be affected by this.

 

[StormC]

To be completely honest, I wouldn't expect an Ultimate port with such an amount of characters. Maybe about half of them at most.

But why? The reason Ultimate has less newcomers is because so many of the veterans had to be recreated from scratch. "Everyone Is Here" was the main selling point of Ultimate and took the most focus in development. If they ported it, they would be able to save time and resources on bringing back veterans and be able to add more newcomers. For balancing purposes I doubt they would ever go back to the ~15 newcomer rosters of Brawl and 4, but I don't see why it's so impossible that they're able to squeeze a few more out. Again, characters sell Smash. That's all there is to it.

 

[Nemuresu]

But why? The reason Ultimate has less newcomers is because so many of the veterans had to be recreated from scratch. "Everyone Is Here" was the main selling point of Ultimate and took the most focus in development. If they ported it, they would be able to save time and resources on bringing back veterans and be able to add more newcomers. For balancing purposes I doubt they would ever go back to the ~15 newcomer rosters of Brawl and 4, but I don't see why it's so impossible that they're able to squeeze a few more out. Again, characters sell Smash. That's all there is to it.

Because ports of old games with new content aren't so exaggeratedly big. Just look at Pokkén. Ported from Wii U to Switch and only three newcomers, two of which are DLC. Same thing with MK8D.

 

[StormC]

Because ports of old games with new content aren't so exaggeratedly big. Just look at Pokkén. Ported from Wii U to Switch and only three newcomers, two of which are DLC. Same thing with MK8D.

Pokken isn't a 15M+ seller and Mario Kart 8 DX isn't a fighting game sold on characters. It wouldn't be a "port" in the sense that they're just taking Wii U games and putting them on a much more successful system. They'd be taking an already massively successful game and expanding on it.

If you want a more apt comparison, Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 added eight new characters after the original game.

 

[TheGuv]

I would rather have a Fighter Pass 2 in 2020 than wait 7-8 years for 4-5 new characters if im honest.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I would rather have a Fighter Pass 2 in 2020 than wait 7-8 years for 4-5 new characters if im honest.

Well when you put it like that, that is a fair point

 

[Nemuresu]

Pokken isn't a 15M+ seller and Mario Kart 8 DX isn't a fighting game sold on characters. It wouldn't be a "port" in the sense that they're just taking Wii U games and putting them on a much more successful system. They'd be taking an already massively successful game and expanding on it.

If you want a more apt comparison, Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 added eight new characters after the original game.

First, UMvC3 had twelve new characters, not eight. And second, that case was an entirely different situation; Ultimate was not even meant to exist to begin with; the characters were meant to be DLC for Vanilla 3 until the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami ocurred, which caused Capcom to force their devs to cancel their original 20-characters DLC plan, and re-release the game with the ones that were close to be finished.

 

[KillerCage]

I think Crash Bandicoot is pretty overlooked in that regard. His games were million sellers back in Japan back in the PS1 era.

Granted, N. Sane Trilogy didn't do as well there, but I don't think that erases his past success there. At least he was successful in Japan, whereas guys like DOOM, Rayman or MK never were.

Didn't Sakurai acknowledge Doom's importance to gaming history recently? I thought that would have been a big deal especially since this is Japan we are talking about here.

 

[StormC]

First, UMvC3 had twelve new characters, not eight. And second, that case was an entirely different situation; Ultimate was not even meant to exist to begin with; the characters were meant to be DLC for Vanilla 3 until the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami ocurred, which caused Capcom to force their devs to cancel their original 20-characters DLC plan, and re-release the game with the ones that were close to be finished.

That was just one example. Super Street Fighter IV added ten new characters. Point is, Wii U ports on Switch were dumped with little fanfare because the Wii U was a flop anyway. But if Smash Ultimate is already a success, what are they going to put in a rerelease to entice buyers? Characters. The entire marketing for Smash 4 and Ultimate relied on character reveals. I really doubt they would just port Ultimate, add less characters than Ultimate, and call it a day when Ultimate will probably have lifetime sales of over 20 million. They will want to keep the momentum going.

 

[krokotopia101]

I would rather have a Fighter Pass 2 in 2020 than wait 7-8 years for 4-5 new characters if im honest.

How are we so sure that a fighter pass 2 would even be a reality? I'm still on the minority believing Smash'll be the last game. It just...seems iffy, if not unlikely to me that amidst 75 fighters, some probably a hassle to port back....and probably licensing, It's...hard for me to think that there will be anything more for Smash. I still make concepts of characters, but those concepts are just pipe dreams at most.

 

[TheGuv]

How are we so sure that a fighter pass 2 would even be a reality? I'm still on the minority believing Smash'll be the last game. It just...seems iffy, if not unlikely to me that amidst 75 fighters, some probably a hassle to port back....and probably licensing, It's...hard for me to think that there will be anything more for Smash. I still make concepts of characters, but those concepts are just pipe dreams at most.

Smash will never end, doesn't matter if it is Ultimate+ or Smash 6, it will continue on some form.

 

[krokotopia101]

'Smash will never end' there will be some point where It'll be on them if they destroy their game. There will always be a chance that ANOTHER Smash will either be better (somehow) than Ultimate, or worse to the point of making everyone stray away. If by some miracle some sequel will come up, I can assume it'll be...difficult to top this 'Everyone is Here' trend that makes Ultimate loved. There will ALWAYS be some sort of turning point for better or for worse.

Unfortunately, I don't personally see something topping Ultimate, but if Smash 6 does come in some way or form then...yay I guess? I've been churning out ideas, but personally can't see them coming because I still have doubts of any after this Fighter Pass. Still, I can't say I'd be surprised if there's more. Shows how well-received Ultimate or Smash as a whole went, I suppose.

 

[TheGuv]

*sigh* just because Ultimate does have 75 characters doesn't mean it's better than smash 6, for all we know Smash 6 could have a god-tier single player, good balancing, a lot of fun newcomers and stages, fun new game modes and it could be an overall better experiencie than Ultimate.

There's more to Smash than characters, stop being so close minded it's annoying.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If you had an Ultimate port with like...

Spring-Man, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Sora, Waluigi, Isaac, Geno, and the obligatory Pokemon/Xenoblade/Fire Emblem characters + 5-6 echo fighters + over a dozen new stages + other new modes + a revamped single player mode, you have a 10 million seller easily, with significantly less budget and time/resources required than Ultimate. Most people, including myself, are so happy with Ultimate they're afraid to see their characters get cut again after Everyone Is Here. It would be a huge win for Nintendo if the Ultimate model was how they kept the gravy train going, at least for the next generation.

(I know some of those characters are a stretch but bear with me here)

That would create such a large vacuum in speculation, it'd be great. What are the big characters after those? Like... Ashley, Skull Kid, Toad... Maybe Lyn and Krystal?

It'd be fun to see what new characters blow up in popularity after the current guard.

I don't really care about any of those D-tier Nintendo characters, the only way they'd sell me the game is with like 5-6 iconic 3rd party characters base game ortherwise a hard pass.

Get out of my house.

 

[TheGuv]

That would create such a large vacuum in speculation, it'd be great. What are the big characters after those? Like... Ashley, Skull Kid, Toad... Maybe Lyn and Krystal?

It'd be fun to see what new characters blow up in popularity after the current guard.

Get out of my house.

I'm sorry but id rather have characters like Doomguy, Yuri Lowell, Heihachi, Leon over any of those characters, just dont care about any of them.

Some people need to get a reality check and stop pretending everyone will care about their side characters, so im not geting out of the house.

 

[StormC]

*sigh* just because Ultimate does have 75 characters doesn't mean it's better than smash 6, for all we know Smash 6 could have a god-tier single player, good balancing, a lot of fun newcomers and stages, fun new game modes and it could be an overall better experiencie than Ultimate.

There's more to Smash than characters, stop being so close minded it's annoying.

From a marketing standpoint, there isn't really much more than the characters. The core Smash gameplay has been the same for the last 20 years. The characters are what Nintendo is always going to capitalize on. After Ultimate, cutting characters would feel like a downgrade personally. 95% of my playtime is spent in versus mode, and I already have all of my dream team characters in the game. New modes are nice and all, but I don't know if they're worth $60 if I lost characters like Banjo-Kazooie, Solid Snake and Cloud. There aren't really any potential newcomers left that would excite me enough to override my potential disappointment in that scenario. It's very much in Nintendo's best interest to try to keep all the cast from here on out.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm sorry but id rather have characters like Doomguy, Yuri Lowell, Heihachi, Leon over any of those characters, just dont care about any of them.

Some people need to get a reality check and stop pretending everyone will care about their side characters, so im not geting out of the house.

'Twas a joke.

 

[N3ON]

I have to wonder who the characters that Nintendo would be unable to re-license are. I mean they got Cloud back again, and while he doesn't come with much, they even managed to put him on base, which probably wasn't SE's choice. They still seem willing to play ball, especially now with DQ. Perhaps they'll start asking for more, but it's not exactly like Smash is made on a shoestring budget.

Maybe Konami, they're unpredictable dopes these days who apparently stood in the way of Snake being DLC. But he's in now, and they seem perfectly cooperative - lending three IPs and being content as the only base inclusion, when I suspect standalone DLC is more appealing for outside parties.

I don't see Sega, Namco or Capcom being too hard to work with.

Banjo is the biggest question mark, since while Microsoft and Nintendo are the best of friends currently, collaboration between competitors usually doesn't remain tenable.